Guild Wars 2

This has got to stop… FEBRUARY 26, 2013 Patch notes:::
Cloak and Dagger: The player can no longer use this ability stack stealth by attacking WvW walls.

This is still a problem as thieves are CONSTANTLY using Keep walls to stealth. Especially SMC. Please for the good of the game, fix this no skill crap. A thief spamming CnD versus a wall as they run away from a group is not skill, it is annoying.

ANet claims to have fixed this back in February of 2013, but has yet to be fixed. It is still an issue, as thieves can still hit walls with CnD to stealth.

I use the exact same method on my necro to gain LF – useful stuff

A thief running away from a group using CnD on a wall takes more skill than bringing a giant group to chase said thief…

Ario.8964:

A thief running away from a group using CnD on a wall takes more skill than bringing a giant group to chase said thief…

What does the amount of friends or foes have to do with intentionally exploiting a glitch? What is worse, is that you appear to be advocating it, and you sure made no effort to condemn the practice.

Doesn’t matter how much skill it takes if it’s not supposed to work that way.

Ario.8964:

A thief running away from a group using CnD on a wall takes more skill than bringing a giant group to chase said thief…

Did you seriously just say that it takes skill to CnD off walls? As someone who only plays D/D on my thief, I can easily say that it’s possibly the easiest way to get a CnD off because the wall sits there and doesn’t move. You just gotta be in range and boom, easy CnD.

I never said it takes skill, just comparatively more skill then zerging 1 person. And dude, I main a d/d thief I know it is easy.

@coglin I have never used a keep wall to stealth as I have never really needed to. There are plenty of ways to get stealth that actually help you more than a keep wall because it actually damages players. So just because I am bringing out a point that differs from what you believe to be true does not mean you can assume I am some Bug exploiter trying to keep my exploits usable.

As for what does the number of people have to do with it? Well The op said it was annoying to have a thief stealth off a wall when running from a group chasing them down and that it is wrong for a thief to be able to do that. While I agree the exploit is wrong, the intention of using something to gain a stealth on is very well justified because I don’t know about you, but I find it rather difficult to solo a 20 man group focusing on killing me.

@coglin I have never used a keep wall to stealth as I have never really needed to. There are plenty of ways to get stealth that actually help you more than a keep wall because it actually damages players. So just because I am bringing out a point that differs from what you believe to be true does not mean you can assume I am some Bug exploiter trying to keep my exploits usable.

As for what does the number of people have to do with it? Well The op said it was annoying to have a thief stealth off a wall when running from a group chasing them down and that it is wrong for a thief to be able to do that. While I agree the exploit is wrong, the intention of using something to gain a stealth on is very well justified because I don’t know about you, but I find it rather difficult to solo a 20 man group focusing on killing me.

Edit… posting from phone, trying fix post.

Ok… let me clear something up. When I say group I mean 2- 5 ppl. Not a zerg. Secondly, defending a broken stealth mechanic is not helpful. If a thief uses cnd on me or someone’s ai pet, it’s fair game, but to use a wall which doesn’t give revealed and to cnd a wall and shadowstep, its broken and was supposedly fixed over a year ago.

Otaur.9268:

This has got to stop… FEBRUARY 26, 2013 Patch notes:::
Cloak and Dagger: The player can no longer use this ability stack stealth by attacking WvW walls.

This is still a problem as thieves are CONSTANTLY using Keep walls to stealth. Especially SMC. Please for the good of the game, fix this no skill crap. A thief spamming CnD versus a wall as they run away from a group is not skill, it is annoying.

ANet claims to have fixed this back in February of 2013, but has yet to be fixed. It is still an issue, as thieves can still hit walls with CnD to stealth.

Actually, this has been fixed. The description says “The player can no longer use this ability stack stealth by attacking WvW walls.” Before, thieves used to be able to stack stealth by continuously using CnD off walls while still in stealth since they do 0 damage to them.

It’d also probably help if anet actually looked at wvw once In a while. Thanks for clearing that point up though, if that is the size then the thief is stupid for 2 reasons: 1) bug exploitation and 2) running from a group he should easily be able to beat… And honestly, its not a broken stealth mechanic, its a broken map mechanic. So intead of asking to not let a specific skill hit it we could just ask of anet to make walls get hit by nothing but siege. That’d probably make more sense overall as it stops more bug exploits than just the CnD one.

@Ario, I agree, siege should be only thing that can hit walls. Ok, map mechanic. As for not attacking stealth, it doesn’t cause revealed so it can be used immediately upon exit stealth, not even long enough to target enemy before they restealth. Otherwise a channeled skill would work.

Blix.8021:

Doesn’t matter how much skill it takes if it’s not supposed to work that way.

Since they changed the stacking part without it affecting the thief’s ability to gain stealth off a wall, it probably means they intended it to work that way.

Ario.8964:

A thief running away from a group using CnD on a wall takes more skill than bringing a giant group to chase said thief…

Blackgate player tries to make argument based on skill and giant groups.

Irony.

The patch is about stacking so work as intended.

Another nerfteef thread can be close then.

@Ross No, it would ironic if I was from TC or JQ, or if I actually zerged. Roaming is what I find fun in wvw and that’s all I do there. So don’t give in to stereotypes, they don’t get you good places in life.

@Otaur yes it is a short time but when a thief is doing something like that they have completely committed to chain stealth by then and if they mess up they will not have any initiative left to get out of a fight so all you should have to do there is put some pressure on the thief and force them to make a mistake so you can kill them.

Pro tip…. Stealth trap = 30 sec reveal debuff. I always have a few on my chars just in case a thief is doing this to hide in keep after we took.

Also in the same line, ranger pet shouldnt be able to get CnD. In PvP or WvW. It leads to too much abuse.

mrmadhaze.8706:

The patch is about stacking so work as intended.

Another nerfteef thread can be close then.

It is not about nerfing a thief. It is about fixing something that is being abused… A necro cannot LIFEDRAIN a wall to heal himself. A Mesmer cannot create clones off a wall. No one can damage a wall without siege. Thus, why should a thief using a skill meant to deal damage to gain Stealth, be able to hit something that is not meant to be used to gain stealth.

I hope you all realize you are attacking a survival mechanic.

Secondly OP, CnD grants stealth on hit. With walls being a damageable object, even dealing no damage at all will cause the skill to grant stealth simply because it hit it. If anet thought that stealth on hit was wrong they would have changed it by now.

Zacchary.6183:

I hope you all realize you are attacking a survival mechanic.

Secondly OP, CnD grants stealth on hit. With walls being a damageable object, even dealing no damage at all will cause the skill to grant stealth simply because it hit it. If anet thought that stealth on hit was wrong they would have changed it by now.

Just like they have changed mesmer’s Proximity Anguish (massive damage from stealthing showing up as | 5 – 13 damage in combat log). Or fixed Rangers pets. Or Reverted RTL Nerf on Ele’s because they made Warriors master sprinters with more mobility than a light armor, low hp class. Or maybe because they have fixed Necromancers to be king of conditions (nope warriors still survive better than necro as a condition spec)… Point being, ANet just doesn’t seem to care about WvW or any type of balance. Again, I may hate thieves and mesmers constantly stealthing… However, using an inanimate object to stealth is not right. When it comes to using a monster, or AI, fine, but a WALL that I Cannot Kill to remove it as a source of cheap stealth, no.

When fighting a thief who constantly stealths and backstabs, smart gameplay should be awarded. What I mean by smart gameplay is avoiding CnD’s, knocking back when they go to use Hide in Shadows, or knocking out of Shadows Refuge. But by using a wall, they have effectively taken away the players ability to fight back fairly. Stealth in GW2 is a broken mechanic. They tried something new compared to every other mmo in history. Stealth in any other game slows down the player and cannot be spammed for good reasons.

If you need more survivability by stealthing off a wall, then maybe you should practice in-combat stealthing more.

Otaur.9268:

A necro cannot LIFEDRAIN a wall to heal himself.

Yes they can.

A Mesmer cannot create clones off a wall.

Yes they can.

No one can damage a wall without siege.

Nor can thieves.

Thus, why should a thief using a skill meant to deal damage to gain Stealth, be able to hit something that is not meant to be used to gain stealth.

As explained to the previous poster, since they changed the stacking part without it affecting the thief’s ability to gain stealth off a wall, it probably meant they intended it to work that way.

Shinjo.6092:

As explained to the previous poster, since they changed the stacking part without it affecting the thief’s ability to gain stealth off a wall, it probably meant they intended it to work that way.

The patch note it’s clear, I think they didn’t fix it on purpose, do you immagine the uproar of childish thiefs all moaning about being nerfed (aka fixed) ?

Klonko.8341:

Also in the same line, ranger pet shouldnt be able to get CnD. In PvP or WvW. It leads to too much abuse.

What? Should the pet be immune to Blinding Powder too or other skills that might be abusing like siphoning health? If you’re going to have AI next to you the least counter should able to hit it.

Whatever, I am done. If a thief ckittene a wall to get an advantage then every class should be able to. My point stands, NO OTHER CLASS BENEFITS FROM HITTING A WALL.

Otaur.9268:

My point stands.

Actually, no it doesn’t. I’m not sure how many times I have to prove you wrong for you to realize this but you are free to scroll up.

The patch notes thing you mentioned was a learn 2 read issue and the comment on necro/mesmer was an outright lie.

No really defending this, cnd off keep walls shouldn’t be possible.

I have no problems with this. That said, I don’t think that one thief or one of any class should be able to contest a keep though.

Otaur.9268:

If you need more survivability by stealthing off a wall, then maybe you should practice in-combat stealthing more.

How about you give me these and you can complain about thieves’ perma-everything all you want. Deal?

The main problem this causes isn’t that the thief gets to escape or get a free stealth in battle. It’s that a thief can permanently contest a keep or whatnot while taking on minimal risk. In all honesty, they might as well just give them a perma stealth toggle and save them the trouble of having to click CnD every few seconds.

I’ve never really understood why this is allowed. Using CnD off mobs and critters is one thing, but it’s a bit ridiculous that they can actually use the walls of an enemy keep to constantly maintain their stealth. IIRC, this doesn’t even put the thief in combat since they didn’t inflict any damage on their “target”, so it doesn’t have the combat movement speed drawback that usually accompanies CnD.

CnD is also supposed to have some inherent risk in it. You need to get close to your opponent, and if the attack fails it could have serious consequences. Using the walls of an enemy keep completely overrides that aspect to the skill, but doesn’t minimize the reward. I don’t really consider this skillful or intelligent use of the skill either since its it’s more or less the equivalent of hitting the broad side of a barn.

I can’t agree that ANet wants it to work this way given the absurdity of how it operates, though they just haven’t really seemed to bother with addressing it in any way as of yet. I hope they do change this at some point in the future. I don’t mind thieves having lots of stealth, but I do mind them manipulating something like an enemy keep wall to set up ridiculous waypoint contentions or to use as a free escape tool.

I’m pretty sure only certain walls are fixed, I’ve never used this exploit but yesterday I tried on Quentin and didn’t worked, then I tried it on stonemist and it worked.

I think majority of the players agree that cloak and dagger shouldn’t give stealth off from enemy walls. Now it still works on many locations. Stealth should also have a maximum duration (I suggest 8 seconds).

I am afraid it is the allocation of resources. It is obvious that the WvWvW side of the game sadly isn’t getting much of them. There hasn’t been any developer reply in a long time in the WvWvW sub forums. The only new content update for WvWvW has been a pve map, called Edge of the Mists and horrible including of spvp map-alike ruins in the middle of the borderlands (instead of the lake). Spvp/tpvp is still getting more attention than WvWvW, even though the player spvp/tpvp player base is much smaller. This is ä clear misallocation of resources and turning a deaf ear towards the player base.

Deniara Devious.3948:

I think majority of the players agree that cloak and dagger shouldn’t give stealth off from enemy walls. Now it still works on many locations. Stealth should also have a maximum duration (I suggest 8 seconds).

It does have a max duration, I think it’s like 15 seconds or something.

sminkiottone.6972:

I’m pretty sure only certain walls are fixed, I’ve never used this exploit but yesterday I tried on Quentin and didn’t worked, then I tried it on stonemist and it worked.

I think it might also depend on the particular style of wall. For instance, the wall being in the basic, reinforced, or fortified state might affect whether or not CnD will work on them. I haven’t ever gone about testing that though.

I know for certain you can quite literally run in circles around SM’s outer wall and just continually CnD on the wall you’re walking over for continual stealth applications. It’s really quite silly the way it works like that.

Wow this was pointed out that long ago and still not fixed. It is rediculous. BP are absolutely horrible for the number of thieves they have that do this and since they invis so often it is horrible trying to report them.

Fix it and ban half the thieves on BP.

necroing a thread to ask thieves to be banned, lol.

just be happy that the people that would really benefit from stacking stealth inside keeps, mesmers, can’t really do this trick. portal bombing is a team effort!

Ario.8964:

A thief running away from a group using CnD on a wall takes more skill than bringing a giant group to chase said thief…

What is wrong with the thief community thinking that their class takes more skill than most others… so many instant cast spells, so many ways to reset if you kitten up, initiative regenerates fast enough that you always can press that escape button, access to one of the best burst skills, access to arguable the best defensive tools. Kinda delusional, like its way easier to manage initiative than memorizing all cooldowns on a 3kid engineer.

BrunoBRS.5178:

necroing a thread to ask thieves to be banned, lol.

just be happy that the people that would really benefit from stacking stealth inside keeps, mesmers, can’t really do this trick. portal bombing is a team effort!

Portal bombing is absolutely fine and fun as hell from either side but using an exploit to stay invis indefinitely inside a tower is not and it is really bad that so many think this is ok.

And why the hell not necro a thread that is only 27 days since last post since this obvious bug was not fixed and is probably exploited by half the thief community.

Mesmers used to stay invis forever. Got hotfixed.

#OldTorch4

Esplen.3940:

Mesmers used to stay invis forever. Got hotfixed.

#OldTorch4

It was so OP ^^ you could basicaly spawn a phantasm, stealth, repeat. The only thing the enemy saw was the torch animation.

Mayama.1854:

Esplen.3940:

Mesmers used to stay invis forever. Got hotfixed.

#OldTorch4

It was so OP ^^ you could basicaly spawn a phantasm, stealth, repeat. The only thing the enemy saw was the torch animation.

Just like perma-stealth thieves where the only thing you saw was their black powder field…of course there was no rush to hotfix that one.

kaco.9856:

BrunoBRS.5178:

necroing a thread to ask thieves to be banned, lol.

just be happy that the people that would really benefit from stacking stealth inside keeps, mesmers, can’t really do this trick. portal bombing is a team effort!

Portal bombing is absolutely fine and fun as hell from either side but using an exploit to stay invis indefinitely inside a tower is not and it is really bad that so many think this is ok.

And why the hell not necro a thread that is only 27 days since last post since this obvious bug was not fixed and is probably exploited by half the thief community.

This isn’t a bug. It’s a feature.

cyyrix.6105:

Mayama.1854:

Esplen.3940:

Mesmers used to stay invis forever. Got hotfixed.

#OldTorch4

It was so OP ^^ you could basicaly spawn a phantasm, stealth, repeat. The only thing the enemy saw was the torch animation.

Just like perma-stealth thieves where the only thing you saw was their black powder field…of course there was no rush to hotfix that one.

Those thieves had to reveal themselves to do any damage. The Mesmers didn’t.

Shinjo.6092:

cyyrix.6105:

Mayama.1854:

Esplen.3940:

Mesmers used to stay invis forever. Got hotfixed.

#OldTorch4

It was so OP ^^ you could basicaly spawn a phantasm, stealth, repeat. The only thing the enemy saw was the torch animation.

Just like perma-stealth thieves where the only thing you saw was their black powder field…of course there was no rush to hotfix that one.

Those thieves had to reveal themselves to do any damage. The Mesmers didn’t.

Arguably you could via Shortbow CG if you mix in some Initiative Regen skills.

Additionally, both were susceptible to reveal.

Keep in mind, with Thieves, it’s possible to perma-stealth off critters, but requires precise timing so your hit connects the moment your stealth disappears to avoid Reveal.