Guild Wars 2

Warbanners needs to be reworked or removed for WvW, they make every WvW fight on 15+ scales just a stupid banner spamming… Who has more banners is more likely to win and they make close to impossible to win an outnumbered fight, because if u down 3 or 4 enemies on a 10v15+ or 15v20+ u just see 2 or 3 warbanners pop out and reset the fight atleast 2 times… Making ur outnumbered fight even more unfair.

Downed system is a mess, and Warbanners are one of the stupidest thing around it.

To be fair, getting downed allies up isnt exclusive to Warriors. Necro’s, Engineers, Elementalist and Rangers have abilities that can do just that aswell.

Warriors just pick their Rez more often then other professions pick theirs, because of how its a more beneficial trade-off. Generally the ressurect-abilities on most professions are pretty lackluster.

Honestly if there is any problem with rallying in WvW id say the least one is where people have to actually use skills and cooldowns. Far more pressing are the 1 guy dies, 20 people rally deals.

The only thing that these rez mechanics completely screw up is instantly reviving dead keeplords. Which is stupid and shouldnt happen.

I thought all classes except Thieves have a rezz ability?
And Thieves probably don’t have one because Shadow Haven pretty much doubles as one.

The thing with Warbanner is that it’s a very powerful AE rezz. The only comparable ones are Mesmer, Necro and Ele Earth in that they rezz multiple, but not being elites they’re much weaker ofc.

Is it too powerful? Not at all.
Should they rezz NPCs? Not at all, and that’d fix the issue.

Terrahero.9358:

To be fair, getting downed allies up isnt exclusive to Warriors. Necro’s, Engineers, Elementalist and Rangers have abilities that can do just that aswell.

Da heck you talkin’ about eng can do it just as well…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R

17% per pulse =/= banner revive

Please learn the classes that you speak of first.

Carighan.6758:

I thought all classes except Thieves have a rezz ability?
And Thieves probably don’t have one because Shadow Haven pretty much doubles as one.

The thing with Warbanner is that it’s a very powerful AE rezz. The only comparable ones are Mesmer, Necro and Ele Earth in that they rezz multiple, but not being elites they’re much weaker ofc.

Is it too powerful? Not at all.
Should they rezz NPCs? Not at all, and that’d fix the issue.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion_of_Life =/= warbanner either…

Agreed dead NPC’s should not be able to be revived other than by a hard res.

Banners should be destroyable like engi turrets. Problem solved.

Aberrant.6749:

Terrahero.9358:

To be fair, getting downed allies up isnt exclusive to Warriors. Necro’s, Engineers, Elementalist and Rangers have abilities that !!!CAN!!! do just that aswell.

Da heck you talkin’ about eng can do it just as well…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R

17% per pulse =/= banner revive

Please learn the classes that you speak of first.

Please learn to read.

War banners are another crazy thing on a class filled with one too many crazy things. They need to be severely toned down. DPS classes shouldn’t have such toys.

I don’t think the warbanner is overpowered regarding player combat. It’s on a long cooldown, and it prevents the warrior from taking nice skills like signet of rage, rampage (it has it’s uses), or some other kind of handy racial ability (i.e. hounds, snow leopard, &c.). It also has a 2 second cast time that can be prone to interruption.

It’s also not a guaranteed resurrection. The the downed individual is at low health and/or poisoned, the banner may not fully restore the downed individual’s health, meaning they will still need to be revived.

I’ve been in a number of successful enemy wipes where there are like 5 enemy warbanners standing around. Just because you use the warbanner doesn’t ensure success. I think it’s more powerful in small scale fights (i.e. 5v5) where the life or death of a single team member can really change the course of the battle, but then it’s also easier to recognize the casting of the banner and counter it.

It also means you should try to stomp your downed enemies ASAP so that they can’t be bannered in the first place.

The only thing I think that really needs changing is the NPC bannering. Having warriors sequentially blitz into a throne room to banner the keep lord while having stability, endure pain, and berserker stance so that the friendly zerg has more time to make it there is just as gimmicky as mesmers portalling into keeps… of course the latter is here to stay, so I imagine NPC bannering is too.

I sincerely hope you are aware that Warr is not the only class with an AoE res. It just happens to be the most obvious-looking one because it’s an elite skill.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Renewal_of_Earth
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Undeath

Terrahero.9358:

Aberrant.6749:

Terrahero.9358:

To be fair, getting downed allies up isnt exclusive to Warriors. Necro’s, Engineers, Elementalist and Rangers have abilities that !!!CAN!!! do just that aswell.

Da heck you talkin’ about eng can do it just as well…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R

17% per pulse =/= banner revive

Please learn the classes that you speak of first.

Please learn to read.

I did, I made note of R vs. Banner because it’s not an equivalent (what your post is and some others in here are implying). That’s like saying illusion of life is an equiv. of warbanner as well which is also is not even close. Again, please learn the classes and difference between the abilities before posting about them. Thanks.

Aberrant.6749:

Terrahero.9358:

Aberrant.6749:

Terrahero.9358:

To be fair, getting downed allies up isnt exclusive to Warriors. Necro’s, Engineers, Elementalist and Rangers have abilities that !!!CAN!!! do just that aswell.

Da heck you talkin’ about eng can do it just as well…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R

17% per pulse =/= banner revive

Please learn the classes that you speak of first.

Please learn to read.

I did, I made note of R vs. Banner because it’s not an equivalent (what your post is and some others in here are implying). That’s like saying illusion of life is an equiv. of warbanner as well which is also is not even close. Again, please learn the classes and difference between the abilities before posting about them. Thanks.

Illusion of Life is an entire seperate ballpark as it doesnt actually revive anyone, its a temporary back in action where the rally-on-kill rule of being downed applies.

Banner has the advantage of being instant-rally, elixir R restores health tickwise. But Warbanner has a 2sec cast time thats interuptable and 2sec of not doing anything else, elixir R is 1/4sec cast and is virtually not interuptable, it also comes with half the cooldown and double the range but a smaller radius.
But with 17% healing per second, for 10seconds, on someone who gets downed at 50% health, those people are getting up. And since it pulses every second, it can rally more then 5 players as it can pick up new targets if it isnt at the 5 player cap.

Both have their distinct mechanical differences, but they fullfill the same task of getting downed allies up.

People complain about Warbanners because its a more common ability. Warriors are bloody everywhere in WvW, and we all know why that is… And its an easier pick for Warriors.
Engineer sacrifices more when he takes Elixir R then a Warrior who takes Warbanner, and the latter is also great personal utility. Whereas the Drink elixir R is woefully underwhelming.

But if Engineers were the popular profession, and every other player in WvW was one. And Elixir R was a great utility skill to have, people would be complaining about that and not Warbanner.

Carighan.6758:

Is it too powerful? Not at all.
Should they rezz NPCs? Not at all, and that’d fix the issue.

This. The amount of times we have failed taking keeps because you get Warriors that immunity up, rush in and banner the lord over and over again until the zerg arrives is VERY annoying and simply should NEVER have been allowed that the Banner would work on NPCs.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Carighan.6758:

Is it too powerful? Not at all.
Should they rezz NPCs? Not at all, and that’d fix the issue.

This. The amount of times we have failed taking keeps because you get Warriors that immunity up, rush in and banner the lord over and over again until the zerg arrives is VERY annoying and simply should NEVER have been allowed that the Banner would work on NPCs.

If you can’t stop the Warrior from Bannering a Lord you didn’t deserve to take the keep. It is really that simple. I don’t feel sorry for you at all.

Talyn.3295:

If you can’t stop the Warrior from Bannering a Lord you didn’t deserve to take the keep. It is really that simple. I don’t feel sorry for you at all.

See, I keep telling that to people who complain about getting Moa’d and then killed by Phantasms. They never listen either. :P

Terrahero.9358:

Aberrant.6749:

Terrahero.9358:

Aberrant.6749:

Terrahero.9358:

To be fair, getting downed allies up isnt exclusive to Warriors. Necro’s, Engineers, Elementalist and Rangers have abilities that !!!CAN!!! do just that aswell.

Da heck you talkin’ about eng can do it just as well…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R

17% per pulse =/= banner revive

Please learn the classes that you speak of first.

Please learn to read.

I did, I made note of R vs. Banner because it’s not an equivalent (what your post is and some others in here are implying). That’s like saying illusion of life is an equiv. of warbanner as well which is also is not even close. Again, please learn the classes and difference between the abilities before posting about them. Thanks.

Illusion of Life is an entire seperate ballpark as it doesnt actually revive anyone, its a temporary back in action where the rally-on-kill rule of being downed applies.

Banner has the advantage of being instant-rally, elixir R restores health tickwise. But Warbanner has a 2sec cast time thats interuptable and 2sec of not doing anything else, elixir R is 1/4sec cast and is virtually not interuptable, it also comes with half the cooldown and double the range but a smaller radius.
But with 17% healing per second, for 10seconds, on someone who gets downed at 50% health, those people are getting up. And since it pulses every second, it can rally more then 5 players as it can pick up new targets if it isnt at the 5 player cap.

Both have their distinct mechanical differences, but they fullfill the same task of getting downed allies up.

People complain about Warbanners because its a more common ability. Warriors are bloody everywhere in WvW, and we all know why that is… And its an easier pick for Warriors.
Engineer sacrifices more when he takes Elixir R then a Warrior who takes Warbanner, and the latter is also great personal utility. Whereas the Drink elixir R is woefully underwhelming.

But if Engineers were the popular profession, and every other player in WvW was one. And Elixir R was a great utility skill to have, people would be complaining about that and not Warbanner.

17% per pulse also means that it takes longer than warbanner to revive some one and you have more of an opportunity to just beat on their downed state to counteract that vs instant revive (you need to have them low and poisoned to prevent that rally).

If you happen to have more than 5 people downed in that small radius in WvW… the chances are pretty kitten high that they’ll still be getting attacked and most (if not all) of them won’t make it back up.

On NPC’s it doesn’t heal for the full 17%… it’ll get one from dead->about half hp… Vs banner which gets npc’s up. A lot of the warbanner complaints are because of how they revive keep lords.

I was just pointing out that the equivalencies were wrong and misleading… which they are.

Talyn.3295:

If you can’t stop the Warrior from Bannering a Lord you didn’t deserve to take the keep. It is really that simple. I don’t feel sorry for you at all.

How do you you stop one that pops immunities rushes in and pops banner?, they also have blocks to fall back on as well. They have PLENTY of skills to make sure they get from an entrance and to the lord without dying.

Remember some of the entrances are RIGHT at the lord – i think Hills is the only one that isnt.

Like some of the other posters have commented engineer’s elixir R doesn’t revive the NPCs efficiently and it is not a viable option to revive a keep lord in battle. See:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R

Warrior’s warbanner should behave in the same way. Its effect on the NPCs should be significantly reduced, for example not fully rezzing them, but reviving them to 50% health (two banners would still do the trick!). The current mechanism favors the side with larger numbers. They can banner rez the lord and then call in more and more troops and just win the battle with superior numbers.

I’d be all for having NPC champions (such as the Lords) not be rezzed by any skill in the game.

That aside, War Banner is an elite skill, and as such shouldn’t be compared to likes of Signet of Undeath, Toss Elixir R, and Renewal of Earth.

Aberrant.6749:

Terrahero.9358:

Aberrant.6749:

Terrahero.9358:

Aberrant.6749:

Terrahero.9358:

To be fair, getting downed allies up isnt exclusive to Warriors. Necro’s, Engineers, Elementalist and Rangers have abilities that !!!CAN!!! do just that aswell.

Da heck you talkin’ about eng can do it just as well…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R

17% per pulse =/= banner revive

Please learn the classes that you speak of first.

Please learn to read.

I did, I made note of R vs. Banner because it’s not an equivalent (what your post is and some others in here are implying). That’s like saying illusion of life is an equiv. of warbanner as well which is also is not even close. Again, please learn the classes and difference between the abilities before posting about them. Thanks.

Illusion of Life is an entire seperate ballpark as it doesnt actually revive anyone, its a temporary back in action where the rally-on-kill rule of being downed applies.

Banner has the advantage of being instant-rally, elixir R restores health tickwise. But Warbanner has a 2sec cast time thats interuptable and 2sec of not doing anything else, elixir R is 1/4sec cast and is virtually not interuptable, it also comes with half the cooldown and double the range but a smaller radius.
But with 17% healing per second, for 10seconds, on someone who gets downed at 50% health, those people are getting up. And since it pulses every second, it can rally more then 5 players as it can pick up new targets if it isnt at the 5 player cap.

Both have their distinct mechanical differences, but they fullfill the same task of getting downed allies up.

People complain about Warbanners because its a more common ability. Warriors are bloody everywhere in WvW, and we all know why that is… And its an easier pick for Warriors.
Engineer sacrifices more when he takes Elixir R then a Warrior who takes Warbanner, and the latter is also great personal utility. Whereas the Drink elixir R is woefully underwhelming.

But if Engineers were the popular profession, and every other player in WvW was one. And Elixir R was a great utility skill to have, people would be complaining about that and not Warbanner.

17% per pulse also means that it takes longer than warbanner to revive some one and you have more of an opportunity to just beat on their downed state to counteract that vs instant revive (you need to have them low and poisoned to prevent that rally).

If you happen to have more than 5 people downed in that small radius in WvW… the chances are pretty kitten high that they’ll still be getting attacked and most (if not all) of them won’t make it back up.

On NPC’s it doesn’t heal for the full 17%… it’ll get one from dead->about half hp… Vs banner which gets npc’s up. A lot of the warbanner complaints are because of how they revive keep lords.

I was just pointing out that the equivalencies were wrong and misleading… which they are.

Downed healthpools are much larger, percentage wise theyre harder to dps down and the 17% pulse heals will heal significant amounts.
Really, its just an argument that Warbanner rezzes people up faster if both started the cast at the same time. But elixir R has other advantages.

As for the Warbanner rezzing Keep Lords, thats another matter entirely. Its stupid, shouldnt exist and also wasnt what this topic was about.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Talyn.3295:

If you can’t stop the Warrior from Bannering a Lord you didn’t deserve to take the keep. It is really that simple. I don’t feel sorry for you at all.

How do you you stop one that pops immunities rushes in and pops banner?, they also have blocks to fall back on as well. They have PLENTY of skills to make sure they get from an entrance and to the lord without dying.

Remember some of the entrances are RIGHT at the lord – i think Hills is the only one that isnt.

We do it all the time. You just have to work as a team. If it was as impossible as you make it sound nothing would ever be taken.

Terrahero.9358:

Downed healthpools are much larger, percentage wise theyre harder to dps down and the 17% pulse heals will heal significant amounts.
Really, its just an argument that Warbanner rezzes people up faster if both started the cast at the same time. But elixir R has other advantages.

As for the Warbanner rezzing Keep Lords, thats another matter entirely. Its stupid, shouldnt exist and also wasnt what this topic was about.

“significant amounts” left intentionally vague I take it?

It gives you a far larger window and far more that you can do to stop it Vs. warbanner (esp if it’s being tossed from the middle of a crowd). Vs. a warbanner they would need to be low AND poisoned to stop the res. R you can outdo the 17% (or 10% if poisoned) healing without many problems in WvW (especially considering the size of most zergs). Heck you can even knock some one out of it midway through a toss R attempt (again far harder to do if the banner caster is in the middle of many others).

R is also different in that you can cast it before you go down and try to res yourself.

Very different mechanics means it really shouldn’t be lumped together with the rest (just like illusion of life).

Glad we agree that banner ressing dead npc’s is rubbish ^^ It is a difference between the two skills and shouldn’t be ignored if you’re trying to equate them in WvW though.