Guild Wars 2

Ever since the last balance patch where you can use 2 sigils in 2h weapons a lot of people have been adding the energy sigil as one of their sigils. 1 energy sigil on each swap gives you 2 extra dodges from 4 to 6 with vigor this becomes a roller coaster. This is only the dodges every class has, this is not included with the amount of evade skills a class can have.

I’ve been noticing that people aren’t even timing their dodges, a lot of players have been just spamming their dodges because of how easily available it is for them. It’s promoting BAD PLAY, the fact that players are getting random evades on instant skills is ridiculous.

The sigil shouldn’t give you an additional bar it should give you vigor if anything.

I think the issue is more with how we can equip the same sigil multiple times (over all our weapons). If you had a single energy sigil, it wouldn’t be that big a deal. Having two, that kinda is.

It’s also balance Elementalists and Engineers more interestingly. They can’t run as many different sigils, but can trigger Energy on-CD instead of every second swap.

Yup ele and engine only get 2 sigils unlike other prof get 4 the on swap process allows these 2 classes to not fall behind ( via energy and battle).

You cant nerf energy sigils without compensating the necro.

spoj.9672:

You cant nerf energy sigils without compensating the necro.

I am talking more in pvp here:
wouldn’t it be benefiting the necro? I know necros majority of their skills have a long cast time compared to other classes. If it were vigor, a boon, couldn’t you corrupt that?

The way i see it, it benefits the necro.

Well if it allows permanent vigor then yeah sure. But otherwise you basically destroy necros only method of gaining extra active defence. Which effects pve in a huge way but it also impacts pvp.

spoj.9672:

Well if it allows permanent vigor then yeah sure. But otherwise you basically destroy necros only method of gaining extra active defence. Which effects pve in a huge way but it also impacts pvp.

Due to the way absolute (or binary) defences such as dodge, block, evade etc work, this would actually be more damaging to other classes.

The movement-abilities like Blink mess with the balance because they do more than just defend you, but comparing simple blocking abilities etc, a necromancer would take less percent total extra damage from this than another character.

energy sigil is perma vigor without the downside of having the boon.

anet nerfed all the 1 point vigor traits because vigor makes fights annoying.

I still have only energy signet on my necro, but I need it. Being a slow moving target this additional energy helps very much.

Right now the sigil gives the same bonus to every profession. If the sigil would grant vigor instead of instant endurance it would certainly benefit the builds with boon duration bonuses hugely. Every Boon guardian and ele would use it and won’t die ever again, unless you constantly corrupt/rip it…

EDIT:
Also PU Mesmers, who have 30% boon duration bonus through trait line, would become even stronger defensively and offensively. You really want that, when the world is crying about PU already?

TyPin.9860:

I still have only energy signet on my necro, but I need it. Being a slow moving target this additional energy helps very much.

Right now the sigil gives the same bonus to every profession. If the sigil would grant vigor instead of instant endurance it would certainly benefit the builds with boon duration bonuses hugely. Every Boon guardian and ele would use it and won’t die ever again, unless you constantly corrupt/rip it…

EDIT:
Also PU Mesmers, who have 30% boon duration bonus through trait line, would become even stronger defensively and offensively. You really want that, when the world is crying about PU already?

it wouldn’t and shouldn’t grant perma vigor. It should give a 2s-3s vigor. If classes who use boon duration for example the PU mez with 30% (3+0.9)=3.9s of vigor. STILL not a bar of dodge. Vigor increases endurance regeneration increased by 100% so from 10s-5s.

Not only would it promote better play but it would also effect the bunker meta people have been using for over 2 years in spvp.

Don’t forget you have to weapon swap for this. So even if you don’t want to change weapons you have to if you want the extra dodge. Also it’s an opportunity cost, you can’t look at a sigil alone you ahve to compare it to other options. I think there are plenty of good options on sigils such that I don’t always run around with this Sigil but I have it on some weapons because it is a good option. Do you feel taht you need to have one in each weapon? I’d assume no as you point out that it became more prevalent when we got 2 sigils in our 2handers, obviously people were finding at least one other sigil more important right?

So, NO, it doesn’t need any changes.

I’m not sure some of you truly appreciate how crucial Sigil of Energy is for Necromancer play. If you’re thinking “Don’t Necros run Air/Fire Lich builds anyway?”, then you’re thinking incorrectly about how a Necro who wants to survive actually plays.

I do understand how it can blow the number of dodges out of proportion when it comes to other classes who can actually spam evade, but it’s an enormous saving grace for Necro survivability. Vigor would be an incredible nerf, because it’s the active, on-demand nature of the dodge provided by the sigil that comprises its worth. I often plan fights/swap weapons around when I need the extra dodge, and compensate my playstyle/strategy once I’m in my new weapon set instead of swapping when I need to switch weapons. If I DO need to swap quickly, I’ll try to get an extra dodge out so I can get worth out of my sigil.

Being able to corrupt someone’s vigor when they get it from their Sigil of Energy is absolutely no compensation, and boon spam is, in my opinion, already out of hand. I don’t know what the appropriate answer is given the difference in active defense between classes, but I would honestly be incredibly disappointed if they changed Sigil of Energy because Thieves can already dodge too much, or because Vigor is already available to classes (except Necro of course), or whatever the reason might be.

In fact, the idea of making this one change to this one sigil causes me more grief than any other ideas I’ve seen on the forums in quite a while. Now I’m nervous that this idea is going to pick up momentum, resulting in me being intensely sad at some point down the road unless Necros are compensated somehow.

In general though, I think if someone is spamming evades, then the problem is the fact that they can spam evades. The additional evade you get for swapping weapons on cooldown can be wasted, so there’s still a skill component available if you aren’t already just constantly evading through abilities. I don’t think, in this case, the sigil is the source of the problem. But maybe that’s my fear of it changing talking.

Prophet.1038:

TyPin.9860:

I still have only energy signet on my necro, but I need it. Being a slow moving target this additional energy helps very much.

Right now the sigil gives the same bonus to every profession. If the sigil would grant vigor instead of instant endurance it would certainly benefit the builds with boon duration bonuses hugely. Every Boon guardian and ele would use it and won’t die ever again, unless you constantly corrupt/rip it…

EDIT:
Also PU Mesmers, who have 30% boon duration bonus through trait line, would become even stronger defensively and offensively. You really want that, when the world is crying about PU already?

it wouldn’t and shouldn’t grant perma vigor. It should give a 2s-3s vigor. If classes who use boon duration for example the PU mez with 30% (3+0.9)=3.9s of vigor. STILL not a bar of dodge. Vigor increases endurance regeneration increased by 100% so from 10s-5s.

Not only would it promote better play but it would also effect the bunker meta people have been using for over 2 years in spvp.

3s Vigor would equal 15% Endurance. I wouldn’t use that rune any more if it would only grant that joking amount of endurance. If vigor would give endurance equal to the energy sigil right now, then it should last 10 Seconds, if I am correct. That results in 13 seconds for PU Mesmer for instance and results in 15 additional endurance, adding up to 65.

Energy Sigil as it stands is crucial for Necromancers. It is already hard to withstand the onslaught of one warrior right now. In group fights, were Necromancers are focused usually, it is becomes exponentially harder. Nerfing the energy sigil would result in nerfing the Necromancer mainly.

I know how perma evades can be annoying, but the suggested changes would hit one profession hugely. Such an implementation would only be okay, if the Necromancer gets an equal defensive bonus.

Cogbyrn.7283:

In fact, the idea of making this one change to this one sigil causes me more grief than any other ideas I’ve seen on the forums in quite a while. Now I’m nervous that this idea is going to pick up momentum, resulting in me being intensely sad at some point down the road unless Necros are compensated somehow.

Hrm.

But!
Necromancers would take less extra damage from this than someone else.

If a Necromancer is at, say, 10% avoidance before sigil and 15% with it, she can avoid 5,55…% damage as a result of the sigil.
If someone else is, say, a Warrior, and happily avoiding 30% of incoming damage and 35% with the sigil, she avoids 7,14% of damage as a result of the sigil.

In other words, removing the sigil, while removing one of the very few full avoidance bonuses a Necromancer has, actually hits everyone else harder. As a direct result of them already having more avoidance.

Comparatively speaking, this’d be a buff for Necromancers. Weird as it might seem at first.

Nooooo! I like my 150% endurance regeneration Warrior! Jokes a side, it’s really really strong combo for a warrior to take Sigil of Stamina and this Sigil. With active swapping you can have 150% endurance regeneration which is uncorruptable so there is no way to stop him dodging like thief (except weakness but that lowers it only by 50%). With the additional dodge from Whirlwind from GS it just goes a bit too much for such tanky by nature profession.

I’m not going to argue about if this would destroy necro defense totally because I don’t really play one, but I can tell you that this sigil is really, really strong for warrior and changing it to 5s (roughly 25% endurance) vigor would be more balanced. This way people couldn’t get 200% endurance regen with perma vigor and the sigil.

Of course it would increase the boon spamming in the game, but you can ask yourself if you want to rather see vigor in enemys boonbar or instant 50% endurance on weapon swap you can do absolutely nothing about.

@Carighan.6758:
The sigil as it stands is not only a huge help for necromancers to avoid damage, but also stuns. That can’t be easily calculated. Nerfing the “dodgeability” of high evading countries must happen in their respective abilities and traits rather than in this sigil, that is almost mandatory for necromancers in a competitive PvP setting. Or the necromancers should get a compensation, if that sigil really gets nerfed.

Carighan.6758:

Cogbyrn.7283:

In fact, the idea of making this one change to this one sigil causes me more grief than any other ideas I’ve seen on the forums in quite a while. Now I’m nervous that this idea is going to pick up momentum, resulting in me being intensely sad at some point down the road unless Necros are compensated somehow.

Hrm.

But!
Necromancers would take less extra damage from this than someone else.

If a Necromancer is at, say, 10% avoidance before sigil and 15% with it, she can avoid 5,55…% damage as a result of the sigil.
If someone else is, say, a Warrior, and happily avoiding 30% of incoming damage and 35% with the sigil, she avoids 7,14% of damage as a result of the sigil.

In other words, removing the sigil, while removing one of the very few full avoidance bonuses a Necromancer has, actually hits everyone else harder. As a direct result of them already having more avoidance.

Comparatively speaking, this’d be a buff for Necromancers. Weird as it might seem at first.

THIS. I main necro, i understand that people think it might hurt us but in result i think it would make us stronger.

Because in a given scenario while you are fighting say a thief/warrior you know both classes can output HEAVY damage in such a small time. Now usually when your under pressure a necros ONLY way of dealing is by retaliating and TRYING to add the same pressure to slow the opponent down and get a better edge. Necros ARE an attrition class. We soak up damage but we SHOULD be able to add the same pressure, a lot of our skills have a long casting time making it harder to hit opponents. Giving us vigor which can be corrupted for bleed can make necros more aggressive if anything. Can’t corrupt a bar of dodge.

TyPin.9860:

Prophet.1038:

TyPin.9860:

I still have only energy signet on my necro, but I need it. Being a slow moving target this additional energy helps very much.

Right now the sigil gives the same bonus to every profession. If the sigil would grant vigor instead of instant endurance it would certainly benefit the builds with boon duration bonuses hugely. Every Boon guardian and ele would use it and won’t die ever again, unless you constantly corrupt/rip it…

EDIT:
Also PU Mesmers, who have 30% boon duration bonus through trait line, would become even stronger defensively and offensively. You really want that, when the world is crying about PU already?

it wouldn’t and shouldn’t grant perma vigor. It should give a 2s-3s vigor. If classes who use boon duration for example the PU mez with 30% (3+0.9)=3.9s of vigor. STILL not a bar of dodge. Vigor increases endurance regeneration increased by 100% so from 10s-5s.

Not only would it promote better play but it would also effect the bunker meta people have been using for over 2 years in spvp.

3s Vigor would equal 15% Endurance. I wouldn’t use that rune any more if it would only grant that joking amount of endurance. If vigor would give endurance equal to the energy sigil right now, then it should last 10 Seconds, if I am correct. That results in 13 seconds for PU Mesmer for instance and results in 15 additional endurance, adding up to 65.

Energy Sigil as it stands is crucial for Necromancers. It is already hard to withstand the onslaught of one warrior right now. In group fights, were Necromancers are focused usually, it is becomes exponentially harder. Nerfing the energy sigil would result in nerfing the Necromancer mainly.

I know how perma evades can be annoying, but the suggested changes would hit one profession hugely. Such an implementation would only be okay, if the Necromancer gets an equal defensive bonus.

it would last 5s not 10. But it doesn’t work like the energy sigil now, you are able to strip it. A huge difference.

Let me put something in perspective. Guardian and mesmer can solo lupi without energy sigils because they had perma vigor + blocks and invulns. Its slightly riskier now because its not perma vigor anymore. Necro requires double energy sigil to solo lupi and even then its tight (recommend endurance food + energy sigils for beginners). If it becomes just vigor and not even perma vigor then you essential kill the viability of a class on lupi + many other bosses.

I know this is a pve perspective but i very much doubt that if they were going to change energy sigils that they would split them so differently. So no, im not in favour of this idea because it will destroy necro’s active defence in pve. Its already bad enough. I dont want to be forced to go sentinels/clerics necros just to survive. Also if you make it vigor then you can be countered by weakness (actually quite common in pve). Energy sigils bypass weakness. So yes it effects other classes a lot. But it hurts necro too much. Compensation is needed first.

PvE has a wholly different issue which should not be fixed via class fixed or lack of fixes. Sorry.

The main PvE issue which has to be resolved before any serious PvE-viability talk can happen is a rework of how the AI fights. Including whether they should have a filler-attack, whether they should interrupt, how much, etc etc etc. A general “How does AI work”-redesign.

Its not a wholly different issue. The devs dont want to fully split the gametypes. All classes except necro are actually pretty balanced in PvE. PvE is much easier to balance than PvP. And many class tweaks made for one gametype rarely have too much effect on the other because the gametypes are so different. If AI becomes more challenging then it will emphasize the need for more active defence on Necro anyway. So it is actually the same issue at heart.

And Necro would be quite viable if boon/condition control played a larger role in PvE. I don’t see an issue with the class’ design there, just with the AI design. As evident by the issue not being present in PvP.

Carighan.6758:

And Necro would be quite viable if boon/condition control played a larger role in PvE. I don’t see an issue with the class’ design there, just with the AI design. As evident by the issue not being present in PvP.

No it wouldnt. Mesmer has better boon control. Even with boon heavy mobs the burst boon corrupt is not as good as sustained boon removal on mesmer. PvP is not about sustained dps and control which is why necros high cooldown boon corrupt is fine in PvP.

Necro still lacks active defence anyway. Were getting off topic.

Carighan.6758:

Cogbyrn.7283:

In fact, the idea of making this one change to this one sigil causes me more grief than any other ideas I’ve seen on the forums in quite a while. Now I’m nervous that this idea is going to pick up momentum, resulting in me being intensely sad at some point down the road unless Necros are compensated somehow.

Hrm.

But!
Necromancers would take less extra damage from this than someone else.

If a Necromancer is at, say, 10% avoidance before sigil and 15% with it, she can avoid 5,55…% damage as a result of the sigil.
If someone else is, say, a Warrior, and happily avoiding 30% of incoming damage and 35% with the sigil, she avoids 7,14% of damage as a result of the sigil.

In other words, removing the sigil, while removing one of the very few full avoidance bonuses a Necromancer has, actually hits everyone else harder. As a direct result of them already having more avoidance.

Comparatively speaking, this’d be a buff for Necromancers. Weird as it might seem at first.

I appreciate the attempt at consolation, but I really don’t think it’s that simple. In a game like World of Warcraft, sure, you could do quick mitigation calculations to determine percentages for min-max purposes.

However, if I just dodged a Warrior’s 400 damage cripple ability that applies Immobilize, then use Sigil of Energy to swap weapons and dodge the follow-up Eviscerate, the sigil just saved me from thousands of damage.

Last night I mentioned this thread to my girlfriend and how much the idea of losing Sigil of Energy would throw me off, and she responded by questioning whether what I was described matched the definition of OP. I tried to think of a way to explain it that didn’t sound like “It’s so good that I can’t live without it”, which basically slots right into the definition of something that’s “overpowered”. The sigil of energy probably IS too strong for Necros, but I really think that it’s something you have to truly use correctly to get the maximum value out of, which makes me lean more towards it being “ok”.

I’m currently internally debating whether it throws Necros too much of a bone with regard to filling one of their gaps in active mitigation, and although it might be an especially biased opinion, I don’t think it’s too much. The absolute and complete lack of any active block/dodge/evade/invuln skills, plus vigor, plus nothing like Signet of Stam, really makes me feel like Sigil of Energy isn’t an issue.

But maybe the fact that I feel like I am completely hamstrung without it is a valid reason to take a look at it. I just want others to appreciate how influential it is for Necros specifically, even if it’s just icing on the cake for dodge-happy classes.

Prophet.1038:

it would last 5s not 10. But it doesn’t work like the energy sigil now, you are able to strip it. A huge difference.

Why? 5 seconds Vigor give you 25% additional endurance. 5% is base rate, vigor adds 100% regeneration bonus, so giving you each second another 5%. 5 seconds would add up to 25% only. A reduction in the over all endurance bonus would only be acceptable, if necromancer gets buffed somehow, for this profession would be hit the most by it.

And still it doesn’t solve the boon duration bonus, that we would have to live with. Question is, is that bonus (not all professions rip boons) acceptable. And how would a S/D Thief be happy to be able to steal all the vigor you granted yourself. It would allow this profession to have huge vigor bonus.

Now imagine a Necromancer fights a S/D Thief and the necromancer uses energy sigil in the changed form, meaning it grants vigor. That Thief would just steal the vigor, leaving the necromancer without endurance, while the thief dodges all over the place.

This suggestion with vigor is not thought through guys.

The core of this issue is that dodging in general is too forgiving. The fact that the dodge iframes extend longer than the dodge animation itself is absolutely kitten. In most popular games the iframe of evades never even comes close to the length of the animation, therefore forcing players to actually consider the timing of their dodge. Predicting instant cast skills such as a thief’s steal is rewarding once a player is experienced enough in such fights, but should never be accomplished by spamming dodge in the hopes that the enemy will cast their skill into your evade.

Reducing the iframe duration will promote skillful play while keeping class balance (you’re not robbed of any dodges so you can solo all the lupis you want and still brag to your girlfriend about it).

Anet managed to admit that the thieves’ disabling shot had too much evasion uptime; they should be able to admit that the base dodge mechanic has the same issue.

TyPin.9860:

Prophet.1038:

it would last 5s not 10. But it doesn’t work like the energy sigil now, you are able to strip it. A huge difference.

Why? 5 seconds Vigor give you 25% additional endurance. 5% is base rate, vigor adds 100% regeneration bonus, so giving you each second another 5%. 5 seconds would add up to 25% only. A reduction in the over all endurance bonus would only be acceptable, if necromancer gets buffed somehow, for this profession would be hit the most by it.

And still it doesn’t solve the boon duration bonus, that we would have to live with. Question is, is that bonus (not all professions rip boons) acceptable. And how would a S/D Thief be happy to be able to steal all the vigor you granted yourself. It would allow this profession to have huge vigor bonus.

Now imagine a Necromancer fights a S/D Thief and the necromancer uses energy sigil in the changed form, meaning it grants vigor. That Thief would just steal the vigor, leaving the necromancer without endurance, while the thief dodges all over the place.

This suggestion with vigor is not thought through guys.

I meant that as in hypothetical, that the sigil should have 5s not 10s.

I still have a problem understanding how people swapping weapons and dodging is something that promotes bad play. 1 extra dodge every 10s for the cost of a forced weapon swap. That’s what these give. Personally as a guardian I don’t need this as often as the necros in this thread but it is a sigil I like to use at times. But, when I use it in PVP I have to choose between wanting the correct weapon set for the job and wnting the extra dodge. Do I sacrifice my Sword or GS to go to Scepter or something like that just to get an extra dodge? Often I opt to either take the hit or expend my Aegis instead because it’s just not worth it.

So while we’re talking mainly necro who sound like they are affected the most, should we really be nerfing a sigil for EVERYONE because one profession gains quite a bit?

Also as far as filling in the gap of evades for necro. I do the same with my chill sigil on guardian. I lack mobility and condition stacking, that sigil does 2 jobs for me. No longer can people just expend one condition cleanse and strip my burning meaning extra damage. Or, they strip my burning but the chill persists giving me an opportunity to keep up and lay down some solid damage. If they have, and expend, a multi condition cleanse or multiple single cleanses, then that has a cost as well. In the end I find these sigils more beneficial to me than the energy ones, does that make them OP?

Which goes with my first question. Why are these more prevalent now that we get 2 sigils in 2handers? If they’re many people’s second choice, what is the first choice? and do those sigils need nerfing too, i mean more preferable than an "OP"sigil would make it OP as well right?

spoj.9672:

You cant nerf energy sigils without compensating the necro.

As others have said, just make energy sigils give ~9 seconds of vigor. Since necros don’t have access to vigor, they will not be affected significantly; in fact, vigor is sometimes better than instant endurance, since vigor is rarely “wasted” like energy sigil often is.

The problem is energy sigil stacking with vigor stacking with other traits to allow many builds to spam dodges.

NevirSayDie.6235:

spoj.9672:

You cant nerf energy sigils without compensating the necro.

As others have said, just make energy sigils give ~9 seconds of vigor. Since necros don’t have access to vigor, they will not be affected significantly; in fact, vigor is sometimes better than instant endurance, since vigor is rarely “wasted” like energy sigil often is.

The problem is energy sigil stacking with vigor stacking with other traits to allow many builds to spam dodges.

I’m not saying this to call you out or go on the offensive, but you don’t understand. The instant endurance is the lynch pin. The energy sigil is never wasted when you know what you’re doing, and having the extra dodge on demand is the enabler for what spoj is talking about, and many survival plays I’ve made personally.

Vigor is OK, but it’s peanuts compared to having another dodge on demand. Given vigor on weapon swap, that just means that maximizing vigor uptime is a matter of swapping weapons on weapon swap cooldown instead of choosing the appropriate time.

In many ways, it lowers the skill bar, as energy sigil can be wasted and is a matter of timing. Boon uptime via simple rotations on cooldown is, in my opinion, a very shallow form of skill.

If other classes are getting a few too many dodges because of the energy sigil, then I can’t help but think that it’s not energy sigil’s fault. Instead, they simply have too many dodges to begin with.

I’m telling you after using sigil of energy and training myself to see weapon swapping as the potential for another dodge that making it Vigor would hurt immensely.

NevirSayDie.6235:

spoj.9672:

You cant nerf energy sigils without compensating the necro.

As others have said, just make energy sigils give ~9 seconds of vigor. Since necros don’t have access to vigor, they will not be affected significantly; in fact, vigor is sometimes better than instant endurance, since vigor is rarely “wasted” like energy sigil often is.

The problem is energy sigil stacking with vigor stacking with other traits to allow many builds to spam dodges.

That would make my energy sigils useless. In PVE I use them on some bosses as a nice safety net if I screw up my dodges and get behind on my endurance management. In PVP I use it sometimes to be a bit more defensive in my setup. Extra vigor doesn’t do me much good when I already have decent up time.

Who are these people spam dodging? I know even using energy sigil and being traited for vigor on crit i still can run out of endurance if I don’t manage it correctly. I can’t help but feel this is either an overexaggerated issue, or it’s more pointing towards professions with lots of evades cough thief cough.

If it is intended to nerf evade thieves, than I can only answer by quoting myself, explaining a hypothetical ecample:

Now imagine a Necromancer fights a S/D Thief and the necromancer uses energy sigil in the changed form, meaning it grants vigor. That Thief would just steal the vigor, leaving the necromancer without endurance, while the thief dodges all over the place.

This suggestion with vigor is not thought through guys.

Jerus.4350:

NevirSayDie.6235:

spoj.9672:

You cant nerf energy sigils without compensating the necro.

As others have said, just make energy sigils give ~9 seconds of vigor. Since necros don’t have access to vigor, they will not be affected significantly; in fact, vigor is sometimes better than instant endurance, since vigor is rarely “wasted” like energy sigil often is.

The problem is energy sigil stacking with vigor stacking with other traits to allow many builds to spam dodges.

That would make my energy sigils useless. In PVE I use them on some bosses as a nice safety net if I screw up my dodges and get behind on my endurance management. In PVP I use it sometimes to be a bit more defensive in my setup. Extra vigor doesn’t do me much good when I already have decent up time.

Who are these people spam dodging? I know even using energy sigil and being traited for vigor on crit i still can run out of endurance if I don’t manage it correctly. I can’t help but feel this is either an overexaggerated issue, or it’s more pointing towards professions with lots of evades cough thief cough.

The problem is that while energy sigil is balanced and good sigil for builds and classes that don’t have any/easy access to vigor it goes a bit too much when it is stacked with vigor.

You see, one can dodge once every ten seconds, thats the base regeneration length for 50% endurance. With good vigor uptime you can dodge twice per 10 seconds. And if you slap the sigil as well you are now dodging 3 times per 10 seconds.

Doesn’t sound much, but considering how dodge works in this game, it’s really strong. Dodge makes you invulnerable to any source of damage during it (0.75s). Thats 2.25 seconds during that 10 seconds. So you are invulnerable to damage sources for almost 1/4 of your time with vigor uptime and the sigil. Add couple skills that evade or block or make you invulnerable, happy hitting.

Paavotar.3971:

Jerus.4350:

NevirSayDie.6235:

spoj.9672:

You cant nerf energy sigils without compensating the necro.

As others have said, just make energy sigils give ~9 seconds of vigor. Since necros don’t have access to vigor, they will not be affected significantly; in fact, vigor is sometimes better than instant endurance, since vigor is rarely “wasted” like energy sigil often is.

The problem is energy sigil stacking with vigor stacking with other traits to allow many builds to spam dodges.

That would make my energy sigils useless. In PVE I use them on some bosses as a nice safety net if I screw up my dodges and get behind on my endurance management. In PVP I use it sometimes to be a bit more defensive in my setup. Extra vigor doesn’t do me much good when I already have decent up time.

Who are these people spam dodging? I know even using energy sigil and being traited for vigor on crit i still can run out of endurance if I don’t manage it correctly. I can’t help but feel this is either an overexaggerated issue, or it’s more pointing towards professions with lots of evades cough thief cough.

The problem is that while energy sigil is balanced and good sigil for builds and classes that don’t have any/easy access to vigor it goes a bit too much when it is stacked with vigor.

You see, one can dodge once every ten seconds, thats the base regeneration length for 50% endurance. With good vigor uptime you can dodge twice per 10 seconds. And if you slap the sigil as well you are now dodging 3 times per 10 seconds.

Doesn’t sound much, but considering how dodge works in this game, it’s really strong. Dodge makes you invulnerable to any source of damage during it (0.75s). Thats 2.25 seconds during that 10 seconds. So you are invulnerable to damage sources for almost 1/4 of your time with vigor uptime and the sigil. Add couple skills that evade or block or make you invulnerable, happy hitting.

So 2.25s/10s of avoidance while not actively attacking, vs 1.5s/10s of avoidance while not actively attacking at the cost of 2 sigil spots and forced weapon swaps is Overpowered?… Really? We’re talking 15% vs 22.5%, again at the cost of alternative sigils, forcing a weapon swap, and while you’re avoiding you aren’t attacking.

Essentially what we can conclude is that energy sigils are not op. However putting them on classes/builds which already have an abundance of active damage avoidance is op. So its certainly not energy sigils which should be changed.