Guild Wars 2

Playing around and trying some builds with my mesmer and my necromancer I have seen that Moa mesmer elite skill completely nullifies MM necromancers since when the target is converted all minions invoked are instantly destroyed.

I think that, in terms on balance, a profession should not have the power of breaking a whole speciality by pressing a single button. It is unfair.

it has a pretty long cast time. dodge it

reikken.4961:

it has a pretty long cast time. dodge it

On a class that has clones / distractions and MOST importantly the ability to stealth cast it? Are you really that dense? Someone can stealth cast basically doom an entire build. It IS A bug (said so by devs) and with MM getting nerfed because of crying baddies, its high time they fix this.

Yes, I think so. But I’m talking about the fact that a single skill is be able to make such damage. Well, I consider it unfair, though it is a elite skill…

PS: If someone think that I’m crying, no ,I’m not. I use to play both classes mesmer and necromancer.

I main a mesmer and I agree that this should be changed. It’s overpowered when used this way.

Considering its a bug and it doesn’t affect all pet classes the same, yes it needs to change. Not to mention Moa screws EVERY Necromancer elite. Would be nice if one wasn’t affected… Moa kills Lich form, plague and kills ALL minions…

It’s an elite. It’s got a one hour cooldown. You won’t see people in upper in pvp using it over mass invis. It only lasts 10 sec. A mesmer could say the same thing a Necros elite.

jaykayy.6873:

It’s an elite. It’s got a one hour cooldown. You won’t see people in upper in pvp using it over mass invis. It only lasts 10 sec. A mesmer could say the same thing a Necros elite.

10 secs, yes. But you have to add the CDs of minions skills.

It lasts 10 sec but puts ALL of a minion masters minions on full cooldown… (Each ranging from 16 to 60 seconds)… Also 240 second cool down isn’t long when it is literally an “I win button” against 1 spec. And if this was changed it wouldn’t break it against everyone else, so why are you defending it from being fixed? If it never gets used then it doesn’t affect you, so go away…?

ronpierce.2760:

It lasts 10 sec but puts ALL of a minion masters minions on full cooldown… (Each ranging from 16 to 60 seconds)… Also 240 second cool down isn’t long when it is literally an “I win button” against 1 spec. And if this was changed it wouldn’t break it against everyone else, so why are you defending it from being fixed? If it never gets used then it doesn’t affect you, so go away…?

Make it so that Moa’ing has a downpart too. Like if they are capable to survive the moa form, all cooldowns are recharged or they gain x health back.
Right now being moa’d (in team battles if you’re caught off guard it’s wrecking) has absolutely no downpart for not killing them on time.

I personally don’t really mind Moa that much, but I think the first suggestion of mine will help your necromancer problem?

Agreed. I think Mesmers should use it all the time. Maybe then ANet would do something about it.

All that needs to happen is EITHER pets disappear but return after (like ranger pets) or just kill the lets but not trigger a cool down so they can be resummoned right away which is STILL crippling because it takes 7.5 seconds to summon a full bar of pets. That also has to be factored into how now works right now. Currently its 10 seconds of taking all damage to the face, 16-60 second for pets to come back and a total of 7.5 seconds resummoning them all and having no pet leeching that whole time which is ALL of a minion master’s survivability. We have no protection, block, vigor, evades, mobility, etc… And no stu breaks if shadow fiend is used over Wurm and Wurm is a pre-casted stunbreak. So guess what. Stealth moa even kills our one and only possible stunbreak. X.x

ronpierce.2760:

All that needs to happen is EITHER pets disappear but return after (like ranger pets) or just kill the lets but not trigger a cool down so they can be resummoned right away which is STILL crippling because it takes 7.5 seconds to summon a full bar of pets. That also has to be factored into how now works right now. Currently its 10 seconds of taking all damage to the face, 16-60 second for pets to come back and a total of 7.5 seconds resummoning them all and having no pet leeching that whole time which is ALL of a minion master’s survivability. We have no protection, block, vigor, evades, mobility, etc… And no stu breaks if shadow fiend is used over Wurm and Wurm is a pre-casted stunbreak. So guess what. Stealth moa even kills our one and only possible stunbreak. X.x

No, all they need to do is have Moa not despawn pets. Ranger pets don’t despawn when Moa’d. Necro pets should not either.

I usally feel bad when using Moa.
I generelly try to fight without me elites, at least in 1 vs 1 situation, as I find it somehow cheap to use those hyper-cd-skills (as long as u rnt playing thief ) in a simple 1 vs. 1.

However, when facing necros, especially MMs whos elite is active almost the whole time, I dont feel that bad when I moa them.

Btw, as long as an AI build like MM is in such a good place, I also dont feel bad, when there is at least one big counter to them.

Thedenofsin.7340:

ronpierce.2760:

All that needs to happen is EITHER pets disappear but return after (like ranger pets) or just kill the lets but not trigger a cool down so they can be resummoned right away which is STILL crippling because it takes 7.5 seconds to summon a full bar of pets. That also has to be factored into how now works right now. Currently its 10 seconds of taking all damage to the face, 16-60 second for pets to come back and a total of 7.5 seconds resummoning them all and having no pet leeching that whole time which is ALL of a minion master’s survivability. We have no protection, block, vigor, evades, mobility, etc… And no stu breaks if shadow fiend is used over Wurm and Wurm is a pre-casted stunbreak. So guess what. Stealth moa even kills our one and only possible stunbreak. X.x

No, all they need to do is have Moa not despawn pets. Ranger pets don’t despawn when Moa’d. Necro pets should not either.

Well I agree, in a perfect world. But at this point i’m to compromise. Its odd that they say its a transformation but that causes them to die but it doesn’t do it to other pet users… How does that work?

EverythingEnds.4261:

I usally feel bad when using Moa.
I generelly try to fight without me elites, at least in 1 vs 1 situation, as I find it somehow cheap to use those hyper-cd-skills (as long as u rnt playing thief ) in a simple 1 vs. 1.

However, when facing necros, especially MMs whos elite is active almost the whole time, I dont feel that bad when I moa them.

Btw, as long as an AI build like MM is in such a good place, I also dont feel bad, when there is at least one big counter to them.

No class has a button that destroys a whole build with 1 button usable in stealth. What if a necro had a single button, when pressed it made it so you couldn’t make clones/phantasms for 30 seconds. You’d be livid…

I think the whole skill should be removed from sPvP

Finally MM Necromancers have to dogde 1 skill? And this skill is now OP?

Does the same to spirit weapon guards. At least your minions are useful when they are around.

ronpierce.2760:

EverythingEnds.4261:

I usally feel bad when using Moa.
I generelly try to fight without me elites, at least in 1 vs 1 situation, as I find it somehow cheap to use those hyper-cd-skills (as long as u rnt playing thief ) in a simple 1 vs. 1.

However, when facing necros, especially MMs whos elite is active almost the whole time, I dont feel that bad when I moa them.

Btw, as long as an AI build like MM is in such a good place, I also dont feel bad, when there is at least one big counter to them.

No class has a button that destroys a whole build with 1 button usable in stealth. What if a necro had a single button, when pressed it made it so you couldn’t make clones/phantasms for 30 seconds. You’d be livid…

But before this, Mesmer would have to become viable again.
Btw, is it possible to land a good shatter onto a Necro in plague form spaming blinds?
Probably not. So…this might be your counter xD.

learn to be better player … dont play mm

if i know any necro on opposite team that play mm I immediately switch to mesmer just for moa.

Liza.2758:

learn to be better player … dont play mm

if i know any necro on opposite team that play mm I immediately switch to mesmer just for moa.

Being one of the few (if not only) top 10 tpvp MMs, you have no idea. MM is hard as kitten to survive with in high end pvp with AOEs, burst and high coordination teams. So keep your baddie comments to yourself.

Also to the Guardian weapons, it shouldn’t do it to them neither. It’s probably just less known because no one runs the poor things. :/

Minion Master is a ridiculous spec, no big deal if it has a ridiculous counter. Though I still agree that Moa should be changed.

“nullifies a whole spec” is nothing special by the way. This game is full of hard counters.

Hmmm I think it’s fair in the case of glass Mesmer. Necro condis even as MM will shut a glass Mesmer down. Moa gives good counter play against the necros significant advantage… Making the plays about trying to get off a skill to shut the other down.

Also necro on any build including MM if you know how to out play a Mesmer even after being Moa’ed you can still turn the fight around and win. I’ve done it to r45+ with ease so it’s not like it’s impossible to learn to play around. (I get that rank is meaningless but the point is it works against people who should know how to play)

If conditions got nerfed or the survivabry built in took a hit I’d agree but I think as it is fights are more fun and intense.

Daishi.6027:

Hmmm I think it’s fair in the case of glass Mesmer. Necro condis even as MM will shut a glass Mesmer down. Moa gives good counter play against the necros significant advantage… Making the plays about trying to get off a skill to shut the other down.

Also necro on any build including MM if you know how to out play a Mesmer even after being Moa’ed you can still turn the fight around and win. I’ve done it to r45+ with ease so it’s not like it’s impossible to learn to play around.

If conditions got nerfed or the survivabry built in took a hit I’d agree but I think as it is fights are more fun and intense.

The best mm builds are power. And also, the way to survive is run until you get a bunch of the cooldowns back. Talk about boring as hell. Most mesmers will save Moa for MMs if they know a team has one because they can literally laugh at them (I’ve been told this by several mesmers). Its a joke.

I will agree team fight it is kind of silly but that’s only because it’s sic a cluster to begin with.

Also I hear the “it’s a power build” thing a lot… But let’s be honest here. Glass mes will be shutdown by long lasting conditions or consistent application of them.

Power necro with signet of spite will do 70% ish of their health. (Left alone by healed which never happens but just to give a perspective of the counter play)

Just as a FYI: A-net knows about this and has actually made references on streams about weather or not they like the functionality of it, which would imply to me that it works the way they want it to bug or not.

I’m laughing my kitten off. You think you’re special because moa morph just shuts off your pets? It shuts off ALL class abilities of everything it hits, utilities and F-abilities. Stop complaining about something that hits everybody equally.

I forgot all of your utilities go on full cool down when you get moa’d. I feel so stupid now.

RyuDragnier.9476:

I’m laughing my kitten off. You think you’re special because moa morph just shuts off your pets? It shuts off ALL class abilities of everything it hits, utilities and F-abilities. Stop complaining about something that hits everybody equally.

OK. You are right. But I don’t feel that moa is unfair because of CD on utilities, but the fact that minions are destroyed. No matter the target profession (I use necromancer in the topic because I made cry a poor MM this morning with my mesmer). We are talking about a complete spec which all its game (damage, survivability, etc) is based on the existence of these minions.

On the other hand, maybe it works as intended. I don’t know…

It isn’t. A dev admitted it was a bug, but one they didn’t know how to fix.

ronpierce.2760:

Well I agree, in a perfect world. But at this point i’m to compromise. Its odd that they say its a transformation but that causes them to die but it doesn’t do it to other pet users… How does that work?

Does it destroy ranger spirits too? (genuinely a question)
I know it destroys guardian spirits (not that they exist in pvp anymore)

Ranger’s pet doesn’t get destroyed because it isn’t summoned with a skill. Same goes for creatures spawning with runes because those aren’t skills.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

ronpierce.2760:

Well I agree, in a perfect world. But at this point i’m to compromise. Its odd that they say its a transformation but that causes them to die but it doesn’t do it to other pet users… How does that work?

Does it destroy ranger spirits too? (genuinely a question)
I know it destroys guardian spirits (not that they exist in pvp anymore)

Ranger’s pet doesn’t get destroyed because it isn’t summoned with a skill. Same goes for creatures spawning with runes because those aren’t skills.

I HEARD from spirit rangers themselves no, but maybe. I’ll check in a bit. Doesn’t ch she the fact that it is considered a bug having to do with transformations hiding bars.

I find moa morph extremely OP in general. It shuts down an entire build (weapons utilities, and heals) for 10 seconds.

Tested, spirits persist. Now tell me it isn’t a bug… >_>:

^awww, a moa in his natural environment with all those “trees”! :P
Anyway, in that case the spirits should die and again I plead for recharge on all utilities/skills once Moa is over with a slight healing (not too much). This punishes people for using such a strong utility without following up with the kill. In most cases you were supposed to die anyway as a Moa.

4-5 months later we get a tooltip fix on Moa moprh too, right? Working as intended.

to be quiet honest its very hard to tell as the animation is not really big when using moa. but yea range is terrible and i wouldnt mind to give that one up at all and give us a better elite that is actually useful

reikken.4961:

it has a pretty long cast time. dodge it

Thanks for the standard response to any glaring imbalance.

Hahahaha MM shouldn’t QQ about anything bud. Go back to spamming 1 and letting your little farm do the rest.