Guild Wars 2

It has 1 clearly low risk high reward build in the form of S/D Acro Trickery.

To deal with any other Sword build fight a thief at its leash post (Sword 2’s Circle it leaves behind), anddodge/interrupt the 3 skill before they connect whether it’s larcenous or pistol whip. Keep the pressure up until they die, it will be fast if they run away to disengage.

S/D Acro sacrifices some damage for a lot of dodges so you can’t play it the same way. It’s almost like a sustain thief, but like any sustain build their weakness is spiking them down.

Think of S/D Acro more like a Warrior like build, just with high mobility.

You summarized it pretty nicely:
Insane mobility
Impressive damage pressure
Top ability on damage mitigation with perma spammy evade

Just have a look at this : http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654
(pretty good player but come on…you must be a thieve saying there is no problem)
Meanwhile Anet keeps breaking other sub-par professions.

Every other thief weaponset got gutted by anet.

I can’t stand s/d myself but honestly, give thieves viable alternatives and maybe ppl will stop playing perma dodge builds.

Take a guess why everyone plays it?

The main issue is not thieves, the main issue is that pvp in this game has 1 mode, namely point capture and it favors bunkers mindlessly spamming aoe…

Of course thieves that have to run full glass (have in comparison crappy condi removal and basically no access to stability) to do any meaningfull dmg will run perma dodge build, since stealth sucks in conquest and dodge is only way to surive current state of combat as glass.

Try to play a thief with any other weaponset at high lv pvp… you will want to uninstall after 5 min.

Acrobatics is pretty broken, period. There is a very low skill floor which is just like Anet likes it. Feline Grace, the crux of this trait lines imbalance, is evidence enough for me that Anet is okay with builds that require spam, and low skill or none at all.

Unfortunately even if feline grace was nerfed, thieves would be inferior compared to other classes. Their mobility would still be a necessity, but they would seem more like a liability than anything, just like any D/P thief currently.

I honestly hate S/D and S/P so much (because they are boring) that I just use D/P and try to outplay, since that’s all you can do when you use an inferior weapon set against an S/D thief or a D/D ele, or an engi, etc.

I am not disagreeing with the OP’s main point. Thieves are truly ruining this games balance. Mesmers, ele’s and even warriors(before buffs) have been replaced because thieves do everything they do just 100% better.

So, the weapon set that takes the most skill to be good with on thief needs a nerf? Im not surprised this post was made.

Dear valid customer, Thank you for purchasing the app “Pvf”, we sincerely thank you for your dedication over these past couple of years. please allow 1-2 weeks for s&h of your shiny gold star. when receiving said gold star, please turn it over and read the words “L2P” written in Calligraphy. As always your valid comments are important to us and we hope to continue laughing at you in the future.

tl dr:
#runeofstr #sigilofair/fire #passivesdoitbest #targettingthewrongproblem.
:)

a t s e.9614:

- D/D ele

Take out The rather powerful rune of Strength which every class has and then what is it like? All i see is people saying the class is overpowered because of a Runeset that also makes other classes and build very strong – they all have the runeset in common so surely the reason they are so strong currently isn’t because of the class itself but because of the runeset that i am pretty sure will be nerfed.

Without that D/D isn’t all that powerful damage wise.

I don’t really think S/D Thieves are any worse than many of the other builds that couple high damage with overpowered defensive cooldowns for survivability.

Warriors have double Endure Pain builds, DPS Guardians can combine insane burst with mitigation cooldowns and so can almost every other class, especially those with viable condition-bunker builds.

I do agree that Feline Grace could do with a minor nerf since it stacks too well with Vigor. Endurace Sigils could user a ner4f as well. 50% bonus stamina on weapon switch is rather a lot when taking all others dodge enhancers into account. Maybe it too should just add 5 seconds of Vigor on weapon swap so it doesn’t stack up so nicely.

a t s e.9614:

Amonatory.2453:

So, the weapon set that takes the most skill to be good with on thief needs a nerf? Im not surprised this post was made.

D/P no SA takes more skill to play than S/D . 2/6/0/0/6 D/P= 0 condi removal and poor defense outside of blind.

I don’t see how having the ability to dodge 10 times in a row is hard. You will survive stuff that you shouldn’t be surviving simply by spamming evades. Let’s say I’m bad at dodging and I’m fighting a hammer warrior, instead of watching the animations I can spam 4-5 evades in a row when the warrior switches to hammer and could outplay him with luck.

Lol. That’s what a bad S-D thief does versus a bad warrior. In a period of 5 seconds, S/D they can dodge 3 times without signet of agility. With signet of agility it can dodge almost 6 times on a 30 sec CD. A good warrior would know this and count the dodges. Good thieves dont spam randomly. There’s certain things to look out for, the warrior reaches up with his hands, dodge. The warrior jumps, dodge. Your obviously a bad so you wouldn’t know what to dodge. Go play S/D thief and you’ll see how hard it is.

D/P is hard to play, sure, but it definitely has things to survive. Pistol #5 is an AoE blind every second, and If u use it properly u can shut down melee warriors. D/P also counters sword specs due to much higher burst, which is key in thief v thief.

Rolyate.6753:

Please take the time to read this short post and do not disregard it as a whining post. Many thanks.

Thief is not the only problem in PvP, but it is one of the longest living.

So, what is the problem? S/D (and I think currently to a slightly lesser extent S/P) simply provides too many things, such as:

Highest mobility
High damage
Damage mitigation
Stealth

Yes, you can beat S/D thieves. There any tiny windows in which you can hit, however this is not realistic counter play.

The biggest problem in my mind is the damage mitigation through dodges. It takes a class which may otherwise be vulnerable and turns them in to a dueling class capable of taking on more than one opponent.

Simply toning down the dodges would not only produce a more appropriate balance, but would also in turn convert them in to a roaming ganker as opposed to a juggernaut type character which has very little counterplay.

These changes alone could see a big shift in the meta, which thief has dominated for a long period of time. Instead of being chased endlessly by a thief that you have great trouble dealing with 1v1, instead there is potential to use positional advantage and duel the thief should it come to it.

ah yes the old “im not whining but here’s a list of things i dont like that you cant call whining but because i said it’s not” technique.

1. mobility doesn’t mean much in terms of combat-balance. in pvp it has value objective-wise but then we get into discussion concerning what is fair in terms of a profession being able to do things to force certain point-strats. if you ask the question is it fair that thieves are great roaming supporters thanks to their mobility you also have to ask if it’s fair that decap engies/bunker guardians/mm necros often force 1v2s, if it’s fair that hambow warriors have such strong teamfighting capability, or if it’s fair that evis warriors are such great farpoint fighters. attacking a build based on how well it can perform a role and then failing to follow through on your reasoning as to why is shallow critique.

2. s/d’s raw damage output is fine, and cannot be compared to that of 2/6/0/0/6 as you are implying. s/d has always been about damage over time rather than burst, and the only builds that can get “ganked” by an s/d thief are the glass cannons that can get “ganked” by anything.

3. every profession and every build has this and to even list this as something that needs to be balanced is dubious at best. s/d has this in the form of a VERY counterable mechanic (evasion)

4. s/d thief has access to very little stealth whatsoever. full stop. this is probably your biggest show of ignorance and to have included this shows how desperate you are vying for filler to plump up your “argument”, which is straight up deceptive if you knew otherwise.

stop asking for wins to be handed to you and

learn

to

play

The problem with s/d thieves is absurd amounts of shadow steps and dodges. In pvp with capture points being able to teleport across the map easily is a huge advantage because 1vs1s become 1vs2s too quickly. Then you look at the number of evades, which are equivalent to invulnerability, and realize they have extremely high invulnerability uptime.

These create 2 problems for any other class trying to deal good damage. First, they simply can’t rotate as fast in a pvp setting, ride the lightning, and lightning flash simply aren’t as good as shadowstep and steal. Second, any kind of burst an ele or mesmer brings can be avoided easily not only the first time they attack, but the second and third as well. Furthermore, thieves are effected at the very least 1/3 as much as any other class by chill because it doesn’t effect initiative regen. Simply put Anet have made it so no class other than thieves can do zerker because thieves do it the best.

Anet really needs to shake things up and bring warriors, guardians, and thieves down. Guardians and thieves have been meta since day 1 without ever suffering any nerfs to core mechanics. Meanwhile, Necros still have far and away the worst sustain, rangers still have a broken mechanic and rely completely on spirits, and mesmers have been completely supplanted by thieves.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

a t s e.9614:

- D/D ele

Take out The rather powerful rune of Strength which every class has and then what is it like? All i see is people saying the class is overpowered because of a Runeset that also makes other classes and build very strong – they all have the runeset in common so surely the reason they are so strong currently isn’t because of the class itself but because of the runeset that i am pretty sure will be nerfed.

Without that D/D isn’t all that powerful damage wise.

Warriors and d/d eles are broken in PVP at the moment because of this runeset (for warriors moreso intelligence sigil on PTV amulet coupled with runes). It’s only a matter of time before it’s nerfed.

sinject.4607:

Rolyate.6753:

Please take the time to read this short post and do not disregard it as a whining post. Many thanks.

Thief is not the only problem in PvP, but it is one of the longest living.

So, what is the problem? S/D (and I think currently to a slightly lesser extent S/P) simply provides too many things, such as:

Highest mobility
High damage
Damage mitigation
Stealth

Yes, you can beat S/D thieves. There any tiny windows in which you can hit, however this is not realistic counter play.

The biggest problem in my mind is the damage mitigation through dodges. It takes a class which may otherwise be vulnerable and turns them in to a dueling class capable of taking on more than one opponent.

Simply toning down the dodges would not only produce a more appropriate balance, but would also in turn convert them in to a roaming ganker as opposed to a juggernaut type character which has very little counterplay.

These changes alone could see a big shift in the meta, which thief has dominated for a long period of time. Instead of being chased endlessly by a thief that you have great trouble dealing with 1v1, instead there is potential to use positional advantage and duel the thief should it come to it.

ah yes the old “im not whining but here’s a list of things i dont like that you cant call whining but because i said it’s not” technique.

1. mobility doesn’t mean much in terms of combat-balance. in pvp it has value objective-wise but then we get into discussion concerning what is fair in terms of a profession being able to do things to force certain point-strats. if you ask the question is it fair that thieves are great roaming supporters thanks to their mobility you also have to ask if it’s fair that decap engies/bunker guardians/mm necros often force 1v2s, if it’s fair that hambow warriors have such strong teamfighting capability, or if it’s fair that evis warriors are such great farpoint fighters. attacking a build based on how well it can perform a role and then failing to follow through on your reasoning as to why is shallow critique.

2. s/d’s raw damage output is fine, and cannot be compared to that of 2/6/0/0/6 as you are implying. s/d has always been about damage over time rather than burst, and the only builds that can get “ganked” by an s/d thief are the glass cannons that can get “ganked” by anything.

3. every profession and every build has this and to even list this as something that needs to be balanced is dubious at best. s/d has this in the form of a VERY counterable mechanic (evasion)

4. s/d thief has access to very little stealth whatsoever. full stop. this is probably your biggest show of ignorance and to have included this shows how desperate you are vying for filler to plump up your “argument”, which is straight up deceptive if you knew otherwise.

stop asking for wins to be handed to you and

learn

to

play

1. a thief being able to ignore building physics and tp through them with a hit of a button to attack a targetted enemy is broken. shortbow is fine in terms of mobility id say though, thief plays the role of quick in and out damage and covering the map and forcing movement from the enemy team to respond to node caps.

2. its more so air and fire sigils that make it utterly broken, again, being carried by runesets and sigils in this game is insanely common

3. what other class has access to this many evades , oh thats right, you can’t realistically compare it anyway because thief runs it’s evades from weaponsets in which work on initative, something no other class has the benefit of having. couple feline grace + signet + energy sigil w/ initative evades one of the attacks being tied to a dmg chain that steals a boon and deals arguably the most dmg from the set (larc). how can you even say that other classes get access to this?

4. with no stealth you get a trade off , mobility + evades and some active condi clear in sword 2. you do get an on demand stealth but the initiative cost is rather high. i dont see a problem with this.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Warriors and d/d eles are broken in PVP at the moment because of this runeset (for warriors moreso intelligence sigil on PTV amulet coupled with runes). It’s only a matter of time before it’s nerfed.

That is my point. Ele is not viable because the class is strong. They are viable because of an unbalanced runeset and once that gets nerfed and it will. They will just be back down where they were.

blitzkrieg.2451:

1. a thief being able to ignore building physics and tp through them with a hit of a button to attack a targetted enemy is broken. shortbow is fine in terms of mobility id say though, thief plays the role of quick in and out damage and covering the map and forcing movement from the enemy team to respond to node caps.

2. its more so air and fire sigils that make it utterly broken, again, being carried by runesets and sigils in this game is insanely common

3. what other class has access to this many evades , oh thats right, you can’t realistically compare it anyway because thief runs it’s evades from weaponsets in which work on initative, something no other class has the benefit of having. couple feline grace + signet + energy sigil w/ initative evades one of the attacks being tied to a dmg chain that steals a boon and deals arguably the most dmg from the set (larc). how can you even say that other classes get access to this?

4. with no stealth you get a trade off , mobility + evades and some active condi clear in sword 2. you do get an on demand stealth but the initiative cost is rather high. i dont see a problem with this.

you further proved my point, 3 out the 4 attacks he made on the build are completely worthless.

evasion can at least be argued against as it’s actually something that s/d has, but i believe it’s absolutely fine how it is. take a peek in pvp dueling servers and see for yourself where s/d really stands. it’s definitely a strong build, but there are many other builds that are just as strong if not stronger. the build is balanced.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Warriors and d/d eles are broken in PVP at the moment because of this runeset (for warriors moreso intelligence sigil on PTV amulet coupled with runes). It’s only a matter of time before it’s nerfed.

That is my point. Ele is not viable because the class is strong. They are viable because of an unbalanced runeset and once that gets nerfed and it will. They will just be back down where they were.

Lol, I really bet you wouldn’t be complaining if Perplexity runes got added in sPvP. So you think Rune of the Strength is the problem? So there’s like…No other possible solution to replacing rune of strength? :P. None at all!? I’m sure I could think of a few other possible solution if they decided to nerf that particular rune set. I’ve seen plenty of bad eles with Strength runes. Sounds like a l2p issue to me.

Lettuce.2945:

Lol, I really bet you wouldn’t be complaining if Perplexity runes got added in sPvP. So you think Rune of the Strength is the problem? So there’s like…No other possible solution to replacing rune of strength? :P. None at all!? I’m sure I could think of a few other possible solution if they decided to nerf that particular rune set. I’ve seen plenty of bad eles with Strength runes. Sounds like a l2p issue to me.

I play an ele ^^
I have no issue with Perplexity myself. Only a select few can really abuse it those being Warrior, Engineer and to an extent some Thief builds.

everyone knows that the runeset will get nerfed. The problem will be the class hit hardest by it will be ele, not that i am worried the few times i actually play S/TPvP i dont run it anyway

Hoelbrak dude. Hoelbrak.

This whole thread is about 18 months late. At this point in the game, the meta is around condi tank builds. It is unfortunate that the OP doesn’t realize this.

That said, I have no problem with S/D being toned down. I just think there are a lot of bigger problems that need to be addressed first.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Warriors and d/d eles are broken in PVP at the moment because of this runeset (for warriors moreso intelligence sigil on PTV amulet coupled with runes). It’s only a matter of time before it’s nerfed.

That is my point. Ele is not viable because the class is strong. They are viable because of an unbalanced runeset and once that gets nerfed and it will. They will just be back down where they were.

Disappointing Ash! If you really know ele you know that strength isn’t why ele is viable. It’s might which could be done with hoelbrak.

Hoelbrak and strength give 6 arcana Eles 9 stacks of might permanent with a battle sigil. The 7% modifier is getting to much credit for what 7% mod actually does it’s an increase but the meta build is a bunker/brawler with 2 in earth.

Just flat no armor consideration. 1500 lightning whip = 1607 with 7% modifier big whoopty doo!

3000 burning speed = 3210 with 7% modifier big whoopty doo.

It’s the might that matters the 7% modifier isn’t as big as people make it out to be on a bunker build with only 2 modifiers.

They nerf strength Eles will use hoelbrak if it’s better, they nerf hoelbrak Eles will use water or pirate if it’s better. They would have to go through 4 rune sets to stop ele from stacking might like it can now or nerf ele.

People complain now imagine if Eles put on water runes.

on topic isn’t meta breaking mean unplayable? Or is there some other meaning to breaking I don’t know like almost OP, kind of OP, sort of OP, to OP.

Lettuce.2945:

CLASSIFIED INFORMATION

DUDE SHUSH.

The less people know about good things the faster i can get my dragon rank. >:I

oZii.2864:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Warriors and d/d eles are broken in PVP at the moment because of this runeset (for warriors moreso intelligence sigil on PTV amulet coupled with runes). It’s only a matter of time before it’s nerfed.

That is my point. Ele is not viable because the class is strong. They are viable because of an unbalanced runeset and once that gets nerfed and it will. They will just be back down where they were.

Disappointing Ash! If you really know ele you know that strength isn’t why ele is viable. It’s might which could be done with hoelbrak.

Hoelbrak and strength give 6 arcana Eles 9 stacks of might permanent with a battle sigil. The 7% modifier is getting to much credit for what 7% mod actually does it’s an increase but the meta build is a bunker/brawler with 2 in earth.

Just flat no armor consideration. 1500 lightning whip = 1607 with 7% modifier big whoopty doo!

3000 burning speed = 3210 with 7% modifier big whoopty doo.

It’s the might that matters the 7% modifier isn’t as big as people make it out to be on a bunker build with only 2 modifiers.

They nerf strength Eles will use hoelbrak if it’s better, they nerf hoelbrak Eles will use water or pirate if it’s better. They would have to go through 4 rune sets to stop ele from stacking might like it can now or nerf ele.

People complain now imagine if Eles put on water runes.

on topic isn’t meta breaking mean unplayable? Or is there some other meaning to breaking I don’t know like almost OP, kind of OP, sort of OP, to OP.

Why you do dis?!

Id argue Guardian and Warrior are far worst then Thieves. Every team has a Guardian, needs a Guardian. Recent ToL showed us a higher then 1 Guardian-per-team average.
Warriors are a close second with an almost 1 Warrior-per-team average. Almost all of them Hambow ofcourse.

Obviously these two professions fill an important role that no other profession can do, and they do it so much better that Guardian is virtually guarenteed in a team and Warrior almost guarenteed in a team.

I think these need to be looked at first.

I am a Thief and I have been saying this for the longest time, nerf shortbow 3. The spammable evades are just OP and lame. It’s not skillful.

Dee Jay.2460:

I do agree that Feline Grace could do with a minor nerf since it stacks too well with Vigor. Endurace Sigils could user a ner4f as well. 50% bonus stamina on weapon switch is rather a lot when taking all others dodge enhancers into account. Maybe it too should just add 5 seconds of Vigor on weapon swap so it doesn’t stack up so nicely.

Agreed, feline grace along with vigor is really strong and encourages dodging many times in a row, rather than just frequent dodges which it was meant to.

And sigil of energy is strong in all builds on all classes that involves it, 50% energy.. It allows you to dodge 3 times in a row, it’s forgiving and can lock out burst against every damaging build that relies on well-telegraphed skills. Thanks to this you would be able to survive things you normally shouldn’t be able to survive in terms of balance.

And mesmers can easily cough up a high amount of clones with nearly no punishment, thanks to this sigil. Deceptive Evasion wasn’t meant to be something that every mesmer build relies on to dish out clones, if that was the case it wouldn’t be a trait, that’s why they wanted this trait changed a while back.

Niels.5396:

I am a Thief and I have been saying this for the longest time, nerf shortbow 3. The spammable evades are just OP and lame. It’s not skillful.

It has already been nerfed and atm to the point that it is hardly useful even without spamming. I’d rather see it split into 2 skills like Flanking Strike, first the evade, then something else useful, this would make the evade part of the skill useful while not being fully spammable.

while i agree thieves have some extremely noobish specs, (PW, HS, S/D)
i still think warriors and engis have far cheaper specs.

that being said, afew days ago on my thief i hit someone for 9k with pistolwhip, that is just insane for a spammable skill that roots them and makes me evade damage.

oZii.2864:

Disappointing Ash! If you really know ele you know that strength isn’t why ele is viable. It’s might which could be done with hoelbrak.

Hoelbrak and strength give 6 arcana Eles 9 stacks of might permanent with a battle sigil. The 7% modifier is getting to much credit for what 7% mod actually does it’s an increase but the meta build is a bunker/brawler with 2 in earth.

Just flat no armor consideration. 1500 lightning whip = 1607 with 7% modifier big whoopty doo!

3000 burning speed = 3210 with 7% modifier big whoopty doo.

It’s the might that matters the 7% modifier isn’t as big as people make it out to be on a bunker build with only 2 modifiers.

They nerf strength Eles will use hoelbrak if it’s better, they nerf hoelbrak Eles will use water or pirate if it’s better. They would have to go through 4 rune sets to stop ele from stacking might like it can now or nerf ele.

People complain now imagine if Eles put on water runes.

on topic isn’t meta breaking mean unplayable? Or is there some other meaning to breaking I don’t know like almost OP, kind of OP, sort of OP, to OP.

You can easily have 6-9, maybe spiking upwards with just running Sigil of Battle. The runeset isn’t really needed for that. Of course the damage increase would be up 100% of the time using the Sigil and the runeset but 7% isn’t that great.

I think the biggest problem is just how easy you can Might stack with very little effort. Hoelbrak would be a cheaper version of Strength but at the expense of the damage increase though its not that huge.

So it is just a coincidence that when this runeset comes out that suddenly Ele are popping up into S/TPvP more and more? Rarely saw them before the recent update now they are coming out in numbers.

the question is, when this runset gets nerfed, how much of an impact will that have on the ele? I don’t think the actual update changes they got really helped them that much, some were decent but not really suddenly making us really strong or anything.

a 7% damage increase all the time, a long with all the other options they have for increased damage is still pretty good.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

oZii.2864:

Disappointing Ash! If you really know ele you know that strength isn’t why ele is viable. It’s might which could be done with hoelbrak.

Hoelbrak and strength give 6 arcana Eles 9 stacks of might permanent with a battle sigil. The 7% modifier is getting to much credit for what 7% mod actually does it’s an increase but the meta build is a bunker/brawler with 2 in earth.

Just flat no armor consideration. 1500 lightning whip = 1607 with 7% modifier big whoopty doo!

3000 burning speed = 3210 with 7% modifier big whoopty doo.

It’s the might that matters the 7% modifier isn’t as big as people make it out to be on a bunker build with only 2 modifiers.

They nerf strength Eles will use hoelbrak if it’s better, they nerf hoelbrak Eles will use water or pirate if it’s better. They would have to go through 4 rune sets to stop ele from stacking might like it can now or nerf ele.

People complain now imagine if Eles put on water runes.

on topic isn’t meta breaking mean unplayable? Or is there some other meaning to breaking I don’t know like almost OP, kind of OP, sort of OP, to OP.

You can easily have 6-9, maybe spiking upwards with just running Sigil of Battle. The runeset isn’t really needed for that. Of course the damage increase would be up 100% of the time using the Sigil and the runeset but 7% isn’t that great.

I think the biggest problem is just how easy you can Might stack with very little effort. Hoelbrak would be a cheaper version of Strength but at the expense of the damage increase though its not that huge.

So it is just a coincidence that when this runeset comes out that suddenly Ele are popping up into S/TPvP more and more? Rarely saw them before the recent update now they are coming out in numbers.

the question is, when this runset gets nerfed, how much of an impact will that have on the ele? I don’t think the actual update changes they got really helped them that much, some were decent but not really suddenly making us really strong or anything.

a 7% damage increase all the time, a long with all the other options they have for increased damage is still pretty good.

There’s also pirate runes, which in my opinion are better than hoelbrak, because the 14+ second 70%+ uptime of 3 party wide might stacks plus an Ad bird that evades as a trade for 10% less might duration is a no brainer. I’m surprised I haven’t seen more D/D eles and Hambow warriors using it honestly. The two of them together give out 6 stacks of might in team fights, plus two birds to deal with as well, which easily makes up for the 7% damage while they’re active.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

oZii.2864:

Disappointing Ash! If you really know ele you know that strength isn’t why ele is viable. It’s might which could be done with hoelbrak.

Hoelbrak and strength give 6 arcana Eles 9 stacks of might permanent with a battle sigil. The 7% modifier is getting to much credit for what 7% mod actually does it’s an increase but the meta build is a bunker/brawler with 2 in earth.

Just flat no armor consideration. 1500 lightning whip = 1607 with 7% modifier big whoopty doo!

3000 burning speed = 3210 with 7% modifier big whoopty doo.

It’s the might that matters the 7% modifier isn’t as big as people make it out to be on a bunker build with only 2 modifiers.

They nerf strength Eles will use hoelbrak if it’s better, they nerf hoelbrak Eles will use water or pirate if it’s better. They would have to go through 4 rune sets to stop ele from stacking might like it can now or nerf ele.

People complain now imagine if Eles put on water runes.

on topic isn’t meta breaking mean unplayable? Or is there some other meaning to breaking I don’t know like almost OP, kind of OP, sort of OP, to OP.

You can easily have 6-9, maybe spiking upwards with just running Sigil of Battle. The runeset isn’t really needed for that. Of course the damage increase would be up 100% of the time using the Sigil and the runeset but 7% isn’t that great.

I think the biggest problem is just how easy you can Might stack with very little effort. Hoelbrak would be a cheaper version of Strength but at the expense of the damage increase though its not that huge.

*So it is just a coincidence that when this runeset comes out that suddenly Ele are popping up into S/TPvP more and more? Rarely saw them before the recent update now they are coming out in numbers. *

the question is, when this runset gets nerfed, how much of an impact will that have on the ele? I don’t think the actual update changes they got really helped them that much, some were decent but not really suddenly making us really strong or anything.

a 7% damage increase all the time, a long with all the other options they have for increased damage is still pretty good.

They also reverted some PvP specific nerfs, added a weapon evade, and boosted the stats of celestial amulet. Before you would see videos of strong ele players in WvW, now you see them in PvP as well because they don’t have one hand tied behind their back anymore. New runes are only a small piece of a series of changes that have helped.

That is true, i guess the un-nerf for Signet of Restoration and Cleansing Water is good, seeing as how many people in S/TPvP run condition builds. Though i still think Strength will be nerfed. It is now just a little too easy to get high stacks of might.

Niels.5396:

I am a Thief and I have been saying this for the longest time, nerf shortbow 3. The spammable evades are just OP and lame. It’s not skillful.

if you really were thief you would know that sb3 got nerfed and is not usable atm due to bug… so much for your credibility

Liewec.2896:

that being said, afew days ago on my thief i hit someone for 9k with pistolwhip, that is just insane for a spammable skill that roots them and makes me evade damage.

The first pistolwhip is always the worst.

Counter it and stay above 50% health, damage the thief in case he’s using scholar runes.
After the thief has used pistolwhip 2 times, the third has lost +~33% worth of damage modifiers compared to the first. If you are below 50% health when you eat the first pistolwhip he gains +20% dmg and is on +50% dmg if he’s using scholar runes, then really high pistolwhips are likely. Combined with Sigil of Air and Sigil of Fire.

Pistolwhip isn’t heatseeking like other similar skills on other classes, so you can safely walk through the thief when the stun ends, which is way safer than walking away from him, unless you have some small distance between you and the thief and the PW is hitting at its max range range.

When the thief is getting low on initiative and is below 89% health, pistolwhip is weak as a main source of dmg.

Yup most of the time when players see they are on a thief stack team they know they will most likely lose so it much be op right(sarcasm)!!! Some will generally consider rerolling class to give there team a better chance of winning. Also nerf to lyssa has reduced the survivability of alot of thief builds sd included. Op I think you need to look at the meta from the perspective of multiple class not just the one you play thief is far from meta breaking.

vincecontix.1264:

Yup most of the time when players see they are on a thief stack team they know they will most likely lose so it much be op right(sarcasm)!!!

Awesome logic…5 thieves is not optimal for tpvp thus there is no ballance issue. “End of story”. Sometimes I feel thieves community is made of Croods Obscurantism and reality denial.

Kicast.1459:

vincecontix.1264:

Yup most of the time when players see they are on a thief stack team they know they will most likely lose so it much be op right(sarcasm)!!!

Awesome logic...5 thieves is not optimal for tpvp thus there is no ballance issue. "End of story". Sometimes I feel thieves community is made of Croods Obscurantism and reality denial.

How about having more than 1 or 2 thief is not ideal for a team yet stacking Guards or Wars, Ele, Engi, Necro is fine?

Also when it come to thiefs there health bar is not a good representation of whether you are close to killing them or not. Players need to track the amount of cooldowns they have left because a thief can basically be 2-3 shotted by a class with Knights or Celesital ammy on(15-25 stacks of might is deadly).

Not the thief, but the Meta breaks itself.

It’s nothing easier to counter as a build that you already known and players, who can’t control it.

hmm this has been a very interesting read for me, i hear alot of complaints on thieves. i see alot of qq, with undoubtedly fully uneducated statements trying to back up the point there trying to make,
an its extremely obvious that most of you do not play thief, do not understand most mechanics on how thief works, an simply don’t know the mechanics of the class you play,
it is one thing to get beat by a class that u dont understand to its full extent, but if you immediately jump to the forums to QQ . then you will never beat them,instead of wasting your time complaining and wanting to have things put on a lower tier to accommodate to players lack of “PRACTICE”, you should find someone in game that is willing to duel or practice fighting/bounce ideas on builds back an forth maybe even make the class that gives you the most troubles, before hopping into forums to entertain me when i have nothing better to read. they’ve allready nerfed thieves every single patch since launch. because of people like this, who want everything just given to them with out any kind of work towards personal greatness,

as in any other sport. it takes practice. pvp is competitive. therefor it is a sport.
start practicing people..

wisp me in game, an ill be more than happy to help you learn how to counter thieves

pawned=NA’s most famous. “bad thief”

well at least there was never a meta without thief, because it’s a verry powerful profession in tpvp and a must heave in a team to be successful, alone because of the mobility.

so of course thief hold some other power builds on different professions back to go into the meta, just because thief easy kill them in 1vs1 and after that, thief still have the best mobility and stealth.

so there is not much chance for professions which want to use power builds but can’t bring this huge mobility.

much thiefs builds just free kill power builds like
power engin, power ranger and “mesmer if the other team don’t heave a thief aswell”

alone in the meta it happens realy often that a thief just go far, take the decap and is still able to 1vs1 really long to hold this point decaped.
if he is about losing this 1vs1 or even a second have to come, the thief just can easy disengage.

so a team with a thief heave always the better win chance then a team without a thief.
if both teams heave a thief, the team with the better thief have a good chance to lead the match.

(actually the thief damage feels redicolous to huge after the “balance” patch for me
because it’s really hard to cath them as long the thief in your team don’t do it)

Nerf feline grace, that’s all what it takes to bring thieves on par with others.

i think d/d ele is viable cause of celestial amulet , not the runes etc, but k, u can argue about that

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Acrobatics is pretty broken, period. There is a very low skill floor which is just like Anet likes it. Feline Grace, the crux of this trait lines imbalance, is evidence enough for me that Anet is okay with builds that require spam, and low skill or none at all.

Unfortunately even if feline grace was nerfed, thieves would be inferior compared to other classes. Their mobility would still be a necessity, but they would seem more like a liability than anything, just like any D/P thief currently.

I honestly hate S/D and S/P so much (because they are boring) that I just use D/P and try to outplay, since that’s all you can do when you use an inferior weapon set against an S/D thief or a D/D ele, or an engi, etc.

I am not disagreeing with the OP’s main point. Thieves are truly ruining this games balance. Mesmers, ele’s and even warriors(before buffs) have been replaced because thieves do everything they do just 100% better.

AHA ahaha ahaha AHAH ha…
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Ha.

No, seriously though I would be fine with nerfing dodges (again) if thief got:
- more armor
- more HP
- better healing and more access to decent healing traits.

Anything less would simply break the profession and no one would play it (because thief is already too “high-risk” for an already nerfed “reward”).

Frenk.5917:

Nerf feline grace, that’s all what it takes to bring thieves on par with others.

So if they nerfed FG thieves would be on par with other classes? Somehow the nerf would grant them access to protection, stability, aegis, blocks, invulnerability just like other classes ?

Currently 1v1 an acro trickery thief played at Sizer’s level will beat my GS sceptre guard.

No other weapon sets gives guard viable cleave and the ability to 1v1 warriors and Eles, even when assuming godlike team fight positioning when running sword mh. So this thief build effectively ‘breaks’ the meta for guards.

As for people trying to play any other zerker classes, I feel for you. You don’t have a hope.

Basically I have to reroll this thief build until they tone it down.

So much QQ.. I feel baddd but….

Phaeton.9582:

Currently 1v1 an acro trickery thief played at Sizer’s level will beat my GS sceptre guard.

No other weapon sets gives guard viable cleave and the ability to 1v1 warriors and Eles, even when assuming godlike team fight positioning when running sword mh. So this thief build effectively ‘breaks’ the meta for guards.

As for people trying to play any other zerker classes, I feel for you. You don’t have a hope.

Basically I have to reroll this thief build until they tone it down.

So much QQ.. I feel baddd but….

Ohh my goodness, one thing in the entire game a guardian cant faceroll, we better all reroll now! Thanks for the laugh

Shemsu.8721:

Phaeton.9582:

Currently 1v1 an acro trickery thief played at Sizer’s level will beat my GS sceptre guard.

No other weapon sets gives guard viable cleave and the ability to 1v1 warriors and Eles, even when assuming godlike team fight positioning when running sword mh. So this thief build effectively ‘breaks’ the meta for guards.

As for people trying to play any other zerker classes, I feel for you. You don’t have a hope.

Basically I have to reroll this thief build until they tone it down.

So much QQ.. I feel baddd but….

Ohh my goodness, one thing in the entire game a guardian cant faceroll, we better all reroll now! Thanks for the laugh

Yup back to 100% now, phew!

The problems with thief aren’t in any of those listed above.
Well actually yes they are, but that’s not the main source why they can do that.

The reason thief is so ‘’game breaking’’ is cause they have quite powerful skills without cooldown. This allows them to spam the strongest skill (defensive or offensive) untill they are out of initive points. There’s no way this will get changed because arenanet is not gonna remake a whole profession.
Then you have the problem wtih stealth being way too strong in this game, allowing thieves to gain most of their initive points back over a short duration of stealth.
While arenanet never wanted to make certain roles for professions, I honestly think thief is about the closest you can get to the holy trinity dps factor. It’s only good at this, but then again really good at it. Put a thief in a bigger mass area and you’ll find yourself prefering guardians, warriors etc over a thief.

BlackDevil.9268:

The reason thief is so ‘’game breaking’’ is cause they have quite powerful skills without cooldown. This allows them to spam the strongest skill (defensive or offensive) untill they are out of initive points.

Ok, tell me what Thief skills are “powerful”. Heartseeker? LOL. Flanking strike maybe, but it does low damage and makes the Thief vulnerable after the cast. Pistolwhip? I guess this one kinda, but it costs tons of initiative, and barely does more damage than auto attacking would. Stun and evade frame is the only good part, but can easily be avoided.

BlackDevil.9268:

The problems with thief aren’t in any of those listed above.
Well actually yes they are, but that’s not the main source why they can do that.

The reason thief is so ‘’game breaking’’ is cause they have quite powerful skills without cooldown. This allows them to spam the strongest skill (defensive or offensive) untill they are out of initive points. There’s no way this will get changed because arenanet is not gonna remake a whole profession.
Then you have the problem wtih stealth being way too strong in this game, allowing thieves to gain most of their initive points back over a short duration of stealth.
While arenanet never wanted to make certain roles for professions, I honestly think thief is about the closest you can get to the holy trinity dps factor. It’s only good at this, but then again really good at it. Put a thief in a bigger mass area and you’ll find yourself prefering guardians, warriors etc over a thief.

I can’t say I have any problem dealing with any thief skill, due their spam like nature. The only problem I see is that there is no way to read the dodges of a thief, other than the tiny evade frames in which you can hit, which can be achieved with some effort in a 1v1 scenario, however it is infinitely more difficult in any kind of team fight.

Simply allowing players to track dodges and see when a player has expended their defenses would provide, in my eyes, a reasonable form of counterplay to a class that I see as being a ‘ganker’ as opposed to the high mobility 1v1 spec it is now.