Guild Wars 2

seriously is it ok for the game to have a class that can chase you for 5 minuets in wvw , having all odds to kill you and having no chance to die is considered ok?

i know you will say that thiefs are not good in a zerk but you think its ok for the player that tries to find his team to have to fight someone in the road that has no chance to die and only kill you?

maybe reduce the stealth abuse and make thiefs perform better out of it?

why did you design them to be immortals i cant understand this and the funny thing is that they make very good damage aswell .

ps. sorry for my english

If they rework stealth and compensate with better performance out of it, sure.

Literally in WvW thieves are good at roaming, they suck at zerging. Immortals, unkillable, invincible (often confused with invisible), no… try playing sPvP (even just hot join) for a few weeks instead of WvW, it should improve your overall PvP’ing skills, considering WvW rewards mindless zerging vs sPvP where you have to think a bit. Very good single damage, yeah… but that’s about it.

Is it okay for a class that only has one use? (that’s probably a bigger issue…)

Also, everyone else, please notice this is coming from a WvW perspective…

Zero Day.2594:

If they rework stealth and compensate with better performance out of it, sure.

Literally in WvW thieves are good at roaming, they suck at zerging. Immortals, unkillable, invincible (often confused with invisible), no… try playing sPvP (even just hot join) for a few weeks instead of WvW, it should improve your overall PvP’ing skills, considering WvW rewards mindless zerging vs sPvP where you have to think a bit. Very good single damage, yeah… but that’s about it.

Is it okay for a class that only has one use? (that’s probably a bigger issue…)

Also, everyone else, please notice this is coming from a WvW perspective…

spvp is different because fights are close and you have to complete objectives and cannot capture points in stealth

i dont loose by all the thiefs in the game in wvw but the fact that they can stealth and reastelth until they win and having no chance to die makes them completely broken

i have never played a game that rogue/thief class can keep resetting the fight anytime they feel like

i had thiefs that chased me on my guardian for literally 5 minuets either they killed me or no one died because they are impossible to kill

jihm.2315:

spvp is different because fights are close and you have to complete objectives and cannot capture points in stealth

Yeah they are. And one promotes brainless zerging while the other you have to think a little bit when you’re fighting. Basically get some fresh air in sPvP, then come back to WvW and see how that thief fairs then.

jihm.2315:

i dont loose by all the thiefs in the game in wvw but the fact that they can stealth and reastelth until they win and having no chance to die makes them completely broken

“No chance”, no there is a chance… against people that can decently PvP.

jihm.2315:

i have never played a game that rogue/thief class can keep resetting the fight anytime they feel like

WoW – Rogue, can cast Vanish any time, resetting the fight and waiting a bit for a better opportunity.

jihm.2315:

i had thiefs that chased me on my guardian for literally 5 minuets either they killed me or no one died because they are impossible to kill

Did you purposely run into them? I mean if you have such problems… if you see them from a distance try to keep away from them (take another route). I’m guessing you “can’t” kill them because you think they’re OP right? You know they’re OP? This has nothing to do with your own skill level does it? Or the self imposed limit of “I can’t kill them because their OP so i shouldn’t even try”, what’s the point of trying right? Gets you nowhere in life.
“or no one died”, well great! What more do you want, they trolled you a bit on your way to your zerg and neither of you died, you made it to your zerg…. cool.

By the way… your post is beating a 2-year-old dead horse… that’s now turning into pulp from all the beating it gets on (semi-)daily basis. Thank you for making post 9,573 of “thieves OP – nerf or rework them”.

So, your definition of an “un-killable” thief is one who uses stealth?..

Look, I main a thief, and the class is by no means “un-killable”. A thief excels at taking down lone prey. After reading your OP, standing on a road ominously waiting for travelers sounds like a great way to have some fun, but in reality this is a learn to play issue. As a guardian you have more toughness, heals, and blocks and just about any other class. If you are letting yourself get killed, its your fault, not the thiefs. Take a different route, or try not traveling alone.

I would honestly much rather face a lone thief on the road than a mesmer 99% of the time.

Zero Day.2594:

jihm.2315:

spvp is different because fights are close and you have to complete objectives and cannot capture points in stealth

Yeah they are. And one promotes brainless zerging while the other you have to think a little bit when you’re fighting. Basically get some fresh air in sPvP, then come back to WvW and see how that thief fairs then.

jihm.2315:

i dont loose by all the thiefs in the game in wvw but the fact that they can stealth and reastelth until they win and having no chance to die makes them completely broken

“No chance”, no there is a chance… against people that can decently PvP.

jihm.2315:

i have never played a game that rogue/thief class can keep resetting the fight anytime they feel like

WoW – Rogue, can cast Vanish any time, resetting the fight and waiting a bit for a better opportunity.

jihm.2315:

i had thiefs that chased me on my guardian for literally 5 minuets either they killed me or no one died because they are impossible to kill

Did you purposely run into them? I mean if you have such problems… if you see them from a distance try to keep away from them (take another route). I’m guessing you “can’t” kill them because you think they’re OP right? You know they’re OP? This has nothing to do with your own skill level does it? Or the self imposed limit of “I can’t kill them because their OP so i shouldn’t even try”, what’s the point of trying right? Gets you nowhere in life.
“or no one died”, well great! What more do you want, they trolled you a bit on your way to your zerg and neither of you died, you made it to your zerg…. cool.

By the way… your post is beating a 2-year-old dead horse… that’s now turning into pulp from all the beating it gets on (semi-)daily basis. Thank you for making post 9,573 of “thieves OP – nerf or rework them”.

yes guys when speaking about someones class problems its always a l2p issue
thiefs / rogues in lineage 2 have not so much access to stealth and are still one of the top pvp classes
and even in wow that has terrible pvp rogues cant abuse stealth over and over and over again

Thieves can be scarier in sPvP if you play glassy builds because defensive stats are a lot lower while they can get close or equal amount of Attack (3k+) they can get in WvW without buffs. But yeah, it’ll teach you how to be more careful and you can learn their spike combo at the very least but it won’t totally prevent you from dying again and again from them.

As for those who say thieves are only good 1v1, no. If you’re having trouble fighting 1v2 or 1v3 then you must be playing it wrong. With all your access to stealth and teleports/shadowsteps you should be able to land cheap shots and eventually down someone. Of course it’s a different story if you’re fighting a group of full bunkers or cheesy hambows.

Kyon.9735:

Of course it’s a different story if you’re fighting a group of full bunkers or cheesy hambows.

These days its pretty rare to not fight a group of bunkers of some kind.

I hate being forced to go full glass cannon just to overcome the prevalence of those builds.

jihm.2315:

Zero Day.2594:

jihm.2315:

spvp is different because fights are close and you have to complete objectives and cannot capture points in stealth

Yeah they are. And one promotes brainless zerging while the other you have to think a little bit when you’re fighting. Basically get some fresh air in sPvP, then come back to WvW and see how that thief fairs then.

jihm.2315:

i dont loose by all the thiefs in the game in wvw but the fact that they can stealth and reastelth until they win and having no chance to die makes them completely broken

“No chance”, no there is a chance… against people that can decently PvP.

jihm.2315:

i have never played a game that rogue/thief class can keep resetting the fight anytime they feel like

WoW – Rogue, can cast Vanish any time, resetting the fight and waiting a bit for a better opportunity.

jihm.2315:

i had thiefs that chased me on my guardian for literally 5 minuets either they killed me or no one died because they are impossible to kill

Did you purposely run into them? I mean if you have such problems… if you see them from a distance try to keep away from them (take another route). I’m guessing you “can’t” kill them because you think they’re OP right? You know they’re OP? This has nothing to do with your own skill level does it? Or the self imposed limit of “I can’t kill them because their OP so i shouldn’t even try”, what’s the point of trying right? Gets you nowhere in life.
“or no one died”, well great! What more do you want, they trolled you a bit on your way to your zerg and neither of you died, you made it to your zerg…. cool.

By the way… your post is beating a 2-year-old dead horse… that’s now turning into pulp from all the beating it gets on (semi-)daily basis. Thank you for making post 9,573 of “thieves OP – nerf or rework them”.

yes guys when speaking about someones class problems its always a l2p issue
thiefs / rogues in lineage 2 have not so much access to stealth and are still one of the top pvp classes
and even in wow that has terrible pvp rogues cant abuse stealth over and over and over again

So why are you automatically trying to direct it at me personal? Did I offend you somehow? Did I says something that struck a nerve? Some sort of frustration with PvPing in general?

:P I love this, they cry OP, when someone goes against them “it’s because you play that class” – classic.

Jihm, please tell us what server and map you were on. It will make some thief’s day. And if you were on JQ EB, you would personally make MY day.

Kincaidia.3192:

Jihm, please tell us what server and map you were on. It will make some thief’s day. And if you were on JQ EB, you would personally make MY day.

no i wasnt there but i guess its very easy for someone to make your day when u play unkillable class lol

Immortal and thief in the same sentence? Same thread? Mer Gerd, what have we here?

If thief is so op, try it out for a week. Share your thoughts, and tell us how you did. Don’t look up some hero build online, make it up to w/e you think would be “op”. You’ll quickly learn their brute dmg is a result of 0 defensive stats, and their reliance on stealth is of upmost importance to stay alive. Otherwise, they just kinda flop over and die. It’s no different from a zerker ele or Mesmer hopping into in with a storm of particle effects and leaving a bunch of dead people in their wake.

Thief only good for killing underlevels, noobs, and running away from everything else.

That’s the reality of it since…I dunno…they’ve nerfed every weapon set thief ever had available…and nerfed our damage…and nerfed our vigor…and nerfed our stunbreaks so we have less than half as many as some other professions…etc.

So you’re walking around alone in wvw and you’re mad cause thieves are stalking you along the way? Have you considered carrying a r8pe whistle?

Seriously though, isn’t that the job of a thief? I’m on a server that has consistently placed last for over half a year now because we simply do not have the numbers to compete. Since thieves have no role in a zerg, I do my best to cut off reinforcements by ganking the strays, which I think is a fair tactic. Otherwise, what’s the point of being a thief?

The way invis was implemented in this game is pretty mind boggling.
True, thieves are pigeon-holed into abusing stealth since it has so many functions and is probably the strongest mechanic in this game; yet there is close to 0 counterplay. It is a proff that is too good at what it does. Certainly in wvw, the proff offers the user low risk high reward gameplay that may be fun for the thief but not for the opponent.
Sadly, until the devs offer counterplay outside of running around pressing 1, there is nothing that can be done.
Personally , im taking abreak and hoping for changes next balance patch (however unlikely). Would be nice to see the same posters defending this broken proff to actually have a fight on their hands.

dylan.5409:

The way invis was implemented in this game is pretty mind boggling.
True, thieves are pigeon-holed into abusing stealth since it has so many functions and is probably the strongest mechanic in this game; yet there is close to 0 counterplay. It is a proff that is too good at what it does. Certainly in wvw, the proff offers the user low risk high reward gameplay that may be fun for the thief but not for the opponent.
Sadly, until the devs offer counterplay outside of running around pressing 1, there is nothing that can be done.
Personally , im taking abreak and hoping for changes next balance patch (however unlikely). Would be nice to see the same posters defending this broken proff to actually have a fight on their hands.

Stealth trap. Now give me counter play for Necro’s DS, or Ranger’s pet, or Mesmer clones, or the tanky regen warrior who can drop my life from 100-0 in 5 seconds after cc’ing me into next year.

Shinjo.6092:

Stealth trap. Now give me counter play for Necro’s DS, or Ranger’s pet, or Mesmer clones, or the tanky regen warrior who can drop my life from 100-0 in 5 seconds after cc’ing me into next year.

Ranger’s pet? Spike it to death. When they swap, do it again. Ignore the ranger, they’re not a threat once the pet is down and out because you can then focus them completely. And you’ll probably win or chase them off. Either way, good result for you.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Shinjo.6092:

Stealth trap. Now give me counter play for Necro’s DS, or Ranger’s pet, or Mesmer clones, or the tanky regen warrior who can drop my life from 100-0 in 5 seconds after cc’ing me into next year.

Ranger’s pet? Spike it to death. When they swap, do it again. Ignore the ranger, they’re not a threat once the pet is down and out because you can then focus them completely. And you’ll probably win or chase them off. Either way, good result for you.

If killing the ranger’s pet is a valid counter to a ranger’s pet, then killing the thief is a valid counter to a thief.

Here is the problem. Perma stealth is perma backstab. Either nerf stealth or alter backstab such as lowering the damage but increasing the attack range.

Shinjo.6092:

If killing the ranger’s pet is a valid counter to a ranger’s pet, then killing the thief is a valid counter to a thief.

I seriously hope you refine your retort. What a terrible comparison.

lol stealth traps. those are so easy to avoid. My thief is the easiest class I’ve played in any MMO. At least I can admit that it’s completely easy mode. No hard counters to stealth and ability to insta stealth in combat. Lol. Another soon to be released game makes stealth much more challenging.

Lol, and no, thieves haven’t really been nerfed. the only real nerf (4s reveal) was immediately reversed in wvw because my fellow thieves cried so much.

OP – just wait two weeks for a better game then leave the thieves to feed off of each other here.

DiamondMeteor.8345:

Shinjo.6092:

If killing the ranger’s pet is a valid counter to a ranger’s pet, then killing the thief is a valid counter to a thief.

I seriously hope you refine your retort. What a terrible comparison.

Yes, you really should rethink it. Speaking as a ranger, our pet is really like tissue paper compared to an actual character and it’s relatively easy to spike most of them to death. So, from experience, most who want to fight me either focus me and have the damage to drop me quickly, or just swat the pet out of the way.

There are 2 things what mess up this game: ranger pet and stealth.

I ll ask again here…

How are you supposed to kill a thief in WWW?

If you are galss cannon, the amount of evades a thief has paired with the ability of having the opening Attacks means you have no chance if the thief is not a beginner.

If you even manage to hard CC+stun a thief => shadow step (as said in another topic why other profession has stunbreak+ cond removal nerfed and thief has this?)

If you evade their burst you can t counterattack because he still has 9+ evades left and stealth on demand with OP mobility…

In WWW where they aren t forced to fight for points there is really no way to kill a decent thief. even if you play another thief.

Even a mesmer with way less stealth and mobility can reliably exit fights at will….that should suggest how stealth should be totally reworked…..

Giving another proper compensation maybe….something that can help contesting points in pvp but has an answer in WWW.

LOL almost every class can 2 shot a zerker thief. It is pretty easy, when they get low on health and try to stealth interrupt them. If they have blinding powder they will use that on the interrupt. Then you just need to do the same thing again. That or spam aoe. Every class has decent ways to deal with a thief. It’s about using them intelligently. Having said that a really strong thief is hard to kill especially in wvw, but so is almost every other class with a good player.

Zero Day.2594:

jihm.2315:

spvp is different because fights are close and you have to complete objectives and cannot capture points in stealth

Yeah they are. And one promotes brainless zerging while the other you have to think a little bit when you’re fighting. Basically get some fresh air in sPvP, then come back to WvW and see how that thief fairs then.

Fighting a thief in sPvP is way easier than WvW, and it’s not hard to be good in sPvP lol… also there are as many bad players as WvW.

In WvW theres the problem with runes/food/equipe which can create a lot of cheesy builds.

In sPvP a perma stealth thief cannot help its party, in WvW a perma stealth thief can engage and disengage at will, a good thief will always survive a fight.

Try out OS 1vs1 with a class which is not thief and fight a good thief with cheesy build, the outcome will be :

1. No one wins and after 10 mins you are both bored.
2. He kills you after N attempts.

zapv.8051:

LOL almost every class can 2 shot a zerker thief. It is pretty easy, when they get low on health and try to stealth interrupt them. If they have blinding powder they will use that on the interrupt. Then you just need to do the same thing again. That or spam aoe. Every class has decent ways to deal with a thief. It’s about using them intelligently. Having said that a really strong thief is hard to kill especially in wvw, but so is almost every other class with a good player.

No they arn’t

Thief in Wvw:
Evade, Evade, Dodge,Dodge, Stealth, regen, Evade, Evade, hit for 4k, evade, stealth, hit for 4 k evade, evade, stun, stealth hit for 8k.. rinse and repeat..

other professions,,*Miss,Miss,Doesn’t cast, No target, Miss, Miss, I’m Stunned & got hit for 4k, Miss, Miss, No target, Evaded, Evaded, Miss, No target, hit for 8K.. rinse and repeat..

Standard operation for me when im on thief and basicly all i do is watch my Ini-Bar.

“Standard operation for me when im on thief and basicly all i do is watch my Ini-Bar.”

That’s why you’ll never kill a thief. If you would learn, you would soon realize that a thief is very predictable.

borya.2964:

“Standard operation for me when im on thief and basicly all i do is watch my Ini-Bar.”

That’s why you’ll never kill a thief. If you would learn, you would soon realize that a thief is very predictable.

Thief is predictable indeed, yet with my get away for free card i can continue to try and kill stuff..
For the other professions that usually isn’t the case. there are counters indeed, kittenes too..
But in general i feel that the combat reset range and the way it works with stealth are more the issue then evade,stun
No problem with thieves usually, i just accept the instagib after i run out of stun breaks and cleanses while combat gets reset trough game mechanics.

Quite something when thieves become the artrition profession trough evade

I would suggest the warrior proffession be deleted, it would be good for humankind as a whole as playing one obviously alters your brain in a bad way.
As an alternative I suggest you delete your warrior and play something else do your remaining braincells a favor.

On second thought: It might be possible I am mistaken about cause and effect in my earlierpost.

Get good at knowing when the thief will strike from stealth, predict where they are going when in stealth! Fighting tons of thieves 1v1 in a spvp duel server helped me get a lot better at making those vital educated guesses. Thief is not too bad to vs 1v1, they’re a lot scarier when you have 3 of them come out of the blue, backstabbing your kitten for 8k a piece followed by heart seeker spams.

Bazzoong.7145:

I would suggest the warrior proffession be deleted, it would be good for humankind as a whole as playing one obviously alters your brain in a bad way.
As an alternative I suggest you delete your warrior and play something else do your remaining braincells a favor.

Hes a guardian not a warrior , I have no problems with thieves on my warrior.

McWolfy.5924:

There are 2 things what mess up this game: ranger pet and stealth.

Please expound…

tom.7468:

Bazzoong.7145:

I would suggest the warrior proffession be deleted, it would be good for humankind as a whole as playing one obviously alters your brain in a bad way.
As an alternative I suggest you delete your warrior and play something else do your remaining braincells a favor.

Hes a guardian not a warrior , I have no problems with thieves on my warrior.

Ah, that clears it up, I indeed was mistaken about cause and effect in my first post here…

borya.2964:

“Standard operation for me when im on thief and basicly all i do is watch my Ini-Bar.”

That’s why you’ll never kill a thief. If you would learn, you would soon realize that a thief is very predictable.

a player can be predictable…
A profession will never be… expecially with stealth…

The fact that players are not even required to play mindgames but can be effective while predictable tells how broken the profession is.

Thieves are certainly very strong roaming WvW. And there is no counter to stealth in the game apart from channelled abilities which I don’t think was intended anyway. A long time ago I got my thief to level 80 then left it. In the past week I’ve geared him and took him out into WvW. It is pretty ridiculous what you can do and I’m not even experienced on a thief. I am an experienced roamer and I understand the mechanics of every single professing having all but ranger at level 80.

I’ve been winning most 1v1’s, some 2v1’s and a few 3v1’s using S/D Trickery build and P/D for kiting hammer warriors. Stealth in this game is broken and I don’t get how thieves can come on here and defend this. I can go into literally every engagement and know that I will either run rings around that person or can disengage and escape at will and there is very little they can do about it. I had a fight at a supply camp against an Engi I found trying to cap it, I was able to kill him, then kill a ranger who came to help, then escape the group of 6 that tried their hardest to stop me getting away. They were AoE’ing, spamming 1, I’d just C&D a pet, clone, player and evade.

The implementation of stealth was broken from the start, it should never have been done in this manner and there is very little to counter either. Sure you can run around spamming 1 and try and predict movement, but having a profession that’s based on an un-counterable main ability is just wrong. Hidden killer needs to be toned down, that’s abused in so many builds allowing someone to gear defensively with low crit chance when still being able to hit like a truck via that trait coupled with stealth is a little too much.

I actually enjoy roaming on my thief (for a change), but I can’t defend the broken stealth mechanic, especially D/P builds that abuse stealth.

jihm.2315:

i had thiefs that chased me on my guardian for literally 5 minuets either they killed me or no one died because they are impossible to kill

So, let me get this straight. Some of these (but not all) overpowered, alpha striking “i win” thieves not only chased you but attempted to kill you for five, yes FIVE minutes and no one died because THEY are impossible to kill? I thought they win?

A couple of points:
1. If only some of them could kill you and not all that shows a clear difference between skill levels. Both on their part and your part. Other factors may contribute like cooldowns or other player intervention but those factors are ALL tied to skill (i.e not blasting all your cooldowns) Our survey says…L2P issue.

2. Yes thieves are excellent at roaming but what rogue/stealth class in any game isn’t going to be? I can quite easily search youtube for WvW videos of classes such as the warrior and guardian changing the word roaming for zerg and vice versa and be showered with coverage, builds and guides. So if we’re throwing words like broken and OP around again can you explain the sheer ammount of damage AND survivability that THE support class of the game has when full glass?

WvW is only one aspect, to truly determine if a class is OP you would have to take into account every avenue of play within the game, as, afterall 90% of skills are the same across PvE PvP (the ones pertaining to thief were nerfs in sPvP)

So, Guardian VS Thief in all aspects of the game, winner listed:

PvE Dungeons: Guardian, by a long shot…no argument.
PvE Fractals: See above
PvE Farming: Staff? check, heavy Armor? check. You can take your WSAD keys out and still not have to work
sPVP: Yup, guardian again. Anyone who debates this doesn’t understand the game or objectives in sPvP
tPvP: lol, im wasting my time typing in this one i think…
WvW Zerg: Yup, that staff and heavy armor again, but i also brought my warriors GS….oh and boons for ya’ll!
WvW Roaming: Yay, thief wins!

P.S anyone who disagrees on PvE aspects please provide some screenshots of LFG dungeons and/or fractals49 specifically requesting a thief.

So, in terms of GuildWars2 gameplay and gamemodes as a whole we can see the thief is far from Overpowered and really only has niche environments to be truly effective. The OP with his bag of staff, bag of loot and 9999 citadel of flame tokens fell prey to that a couple of times…sometimes the impossible to kill couldnt kill the….well you get the point.

@OP:

Your issue is that you are trying to 1v1 someone while trying to find your team. That’s your current problem. You will not win a 1v1 while using a team supporting spec, nor should you.

Run back to your team with others, or use a 1v1 spec.

Here’s a great counter to thief (works every time):

Damage that doesn’t require a target lock to activate, e.g. every CC, every condition AOE, every damage AOE that exists. Stealth isn’t invincibility like what Warrior has tons of and Guardian has lots of and Ele has some of and Mes has some of and Engi has some of…

Why people still complain about stealth. There is no permastealth, the d/p nerf removed that. Stealth is never permanent, as soon as a thief damages someone its revealed for at LEAST three seconds, and during that time thief is extremely vulnerable.

The only thief builds with more endurance-related evades than any warrior/etc. are the ones that have some focus on acrobatics. The utility evade (roll for init) has a 60 sec cd, the heal evade is q15 seconds (and it doesn’t heal any damaging conditions, and it can’t be procced when stunned or disabled), shortbow evade can only be used 3x before you’re broke on init (and it doesn’t do much damage), and s/d skill-3 is a very short-duration evade that requires extremely good timing.

All those evades…less than 11k base HP, very bad armor. The ONLY viable thief builds are zerk, valk and possibly dire. Zerk is downed in one shot by two different warrior skills, OR 4 melee autoattacks from MANY classes, Valk takes about 6-7 hits to kill instead of 4. Only dire has any survivability, but a dire build (and any thief condi build) is completely, utterly worthless against a tank like engi condi/healwar/necro condi builds. They laugh off all the damage and condis without ticking down in life.

Thief doesn’t do enough damage to NOT be glassy and ever down anyone. Their base damage is way too low to actually down anybody who doesn’t suck before the opponent downs them first. Thief HAS to be played smart. Stealth and evades are absolutely key to thief design. If thief was visible at all times, it would never, EVER be played in wvw (or pvp since the s/d nerf) because it would be the most useless profession – outdoing ele in that regard.

Really…you’re really trying to make out that thieves are somewhat hard to play.

The thief is by far the safest and easiest profession to roam on.

I used to play zerk thief 30/30/10/0/0 and didn’t have any problems with survivability. When i played 10/30/30/0/0 it was even easier. My worst case scenario was having to use stealth shroud and then i’d be back to full health in a few ticks.

You have medium armour, it’s not very bad. Very bad armour would be ‘light’ armour…

I hate to even touch my thief now (even after i bought him magitech armour skin QQ), it’s just laughably easy to get kills and not be killed. The only classes i’d find hard were some stacked condi warriors. But if I wanted to get away from a fight, I could do it every time. In zergs I did fine, picking off people or spamming cluster bombs for 2-3k a hit.

Stealth is silly, it should break on damage or break as soon as you attack, even if you miss/are evaded/hit a shield. Otherwise all he has to do is spam , if he misses 3 times, then come out of stealth and just c+d again, and try all over again, except this time your cooldowns are all blown.

I suggest that you make a build with which:

a) allows you to do your role in WvW group play.
b) if you must roam to get to your team, with just swapping your equipment you jump into your roaming build, so if a thief pops up you can deal with them and then move along to your group. After you’re safe from roaming attackers, as you approach where your group is, swap your gear and jump into your group play mode. I personally enjoy finding them roaming now that I can just swap gear an show them who is boss.

It seems like an amazing pain in the —- but in fact that’s the only way I can do it. Its very often that someone’s build for group play is completely worthless in solo fights. We can all suggest a tab in the equipment panel (laveled PvE / PvP / WvW… or Build 1, Build 2.. etc), with which you can swap into another gear on the go, if you are out of combat. But all you can do now is follow my suggestion and get used to it, or continue to fall pray to those thieves who will take advantage of your roaming moments.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

zapv.8051:

LOL almost every class can 2 shot a zerker thief. It is pretty easy, when they get low on health and try to stealth interrupt them. If they have blinding powder they will use that on the interrupt. Then you just need to do the same thing again. That or spam aoe. Every class has decent ways to deal with a thief. It’s about using them intelligently. Having said that a really strong thief is hard to kill especially in wvw, but so is almost every other class with a good player.

No they arn’t

Thief in Wvw:
Evade, Evade, Dodge,Dodge, Stealth, regen, Evade, Evade, hit for 4k, evade, stealth, hit for 4 k evade, evade, stun, stealth hit for 8k.. rinse and repeat..

other professions,,*Miss,Miss,Doesn’t cast, No target, Miss, Miss, I’m Stunned & got hit for 4k, Miss, Miss, No target, Evaded, Evaded, Miss, No target, hit for 8K.. rinse and repeat..

Standard operation for me when im on thief and basicly all i do is watch my Ini-Bar.

If I saw someone doing this, I might lose the first time because they were seemingly evading permanently which they can’t actually do. The second time they’d be screwed though. My attacks would look like.

Auto, auto, auto, auto, interrupt, hit for 5k, hit for 5k, oh he stealthed, wait around, watch him backstab me, interrupt, auto till he’s dead. I guess I don’t find fighting thieves that are glassy enough to hit 8k that hard to fight.

Take out your hammer, go to a cliff. Wait for said thief to pop up again, banish, dead thief. =b Worked for me last night, silly thief.

Honestly… I don’t understand these threads complaining about thieves. I personally main guardian, and after I played my own thief and got it to 80 I have not lost 1v1 to a thief in wvw since. And that isn’t an exaggeration. Thieves are easy to kill once you understand them. Stealth does not make them invulnerable. You swing a whirling wrath, smite condition, purging flames, or one of our other AoEs, and you can easily kill a thief while they are in stealth. Also as a guard you should never lose to a thief. Pop retaliation and voila, thief kills themself. Or pop aegis when they stealth if they use main hand dagger since they will be going for a backstab. You block their hard hitting attack right there.

I think you main problem is that when a thief stealths you assume they are invulnerable and you can’t hit them. I’m not usually one that goes “L2P” but in this case it really is the truth of it. I’m sorry that you struggle with them, but honestly, the hardest class for a thief to kill is guardian (engis and necros are also difficult if running massive condis). You really just need to use one of your character slots to make a thief, and play it to 80. You will understand how they work, and how very fragile they actually are.

Now if we really want to talk about an OP class…. cough warrior cough

NinjaEd.3946:

Immortal and thief in the same sentence? Same thread? Mer Gerd, what have we here?

If thief is so op, try it out for a week. Share your thoughts, and tell us how you did. Don’t look up some hero build online, make it up to w/e you think would be “op”. You’ll quickly learn their brute dmg is a result of 0 defensive stats, and their reliance on stealth is of upmost importance to stay alive. Otherwise, they just kinda flop over and die. It’s no different from a zerker ele or Mesmer hopping into in with a storm of particle effects and leaving a bunch of dead people in their wake.

I main a thief and I have to say stealth is broken. Thieves are not at fault for this but the fact that they have to rely on stealth in order to do damage and defense is pretty bad. It means a thief will always start out by going into stealth at any part in the fight. Its all they have. Thieves should not be so stealth dependent. Then you have the non stealth class S/P which is mindnumbingly boring and OP. All thieves have to do is press 2 buttons in any weapon set to do ridiculous damage and either not be seen or be evading. Besides the part where you have to judge when to attack and when to bait or when to wait, all we do is stealth back stab stealth back stab stealth back stab, or teleport pistol whip teleport pistol whip teleport pistol whip. Thieves need a complete class rework on traits, weapon skills, and a better class mechanic(although steal is fine). Initiative needs to he removed. Then make thieves not have to depend on stealth and not have to depend on 1 attack to do damage (the initiative system is at fault for this). Then make thieves still a powerful class, more diversity so its not the same kitten repetitiveness, and still be the most mobile class. The class would be so much more fun to play if you didn’t have to just press the same two buttons all the time. Not to mention you wouldn’t have 10000000 thief op threads a day. I finally rolled an Ele after playing thief for so long because it is so boring but I love burst so I went with the only other class that has something near thief. If thief was changed like I said, I would go back to playing it but I fear it’s too late to make such a big change to the class even though it would be for the better.

Neoheart.2750:

jihm.2315:

i had thiefs that chased me on my guardian for literally 5 minuets either they killed me or no one died because they are impossible to kill

So, let me get this straight. Some of these (but not all) overpowered, alpha striking “i win” thieves not only chased you but attempted to kill you for five, yes FIVE minutes and no one died because THEY are impossible to kill? I thought they win?

A couple of points:
1. If only some of them could kill you and not all that shows a clear difference between skill levels. Both on their part and your part. Other factors may contribute like cooldowns or other player intervention but those factors are ALL tied to skill (i.e not blasting all your cooldowns) Our survey says…L2P issue.

2. Yes thieves are excellent at roaming but what rogue/stealth class in any game isn’t going to be? I can quite easily search youtube for WvW videos of classes such as the warrior and guardian changing the word roaming for zerg and vice versa and be showered with coverage, builds and guides. So if we’re throwing words like broken and OP around again can you explain the sheer ammount of damage AND survivability that THE support class of the game has when full glass?

WvW is only one aspect, to truly determine if a class is OP you would have to take into account every avenue of play within the game, as, afterall 90% of skills are the same across PvE PvP (the ones pertaining to thief were nerfs in sPvP)

So, Guardian VS Thief in all aspects of the game, winner listed:

PvE Dungeons: Guardian, by a long shot…no argument.
PvE Fractals: See above
PvE Farming: Staff? check, heavy Armor? check. You can take your WSAD keys out and still not have to work
sPVP: Yup, guardian again. Anyone who debates this doesn’t understand the game or objectives in sPvP
tPvP: lol, im wasting my time typing in this one i think…
WvW Zerg: Yup, that staff and heavy armor again, but i also brought my warriors GS….oh and boons for ya’ll!
WvW Roaming: Yay, thief wins!

P.S anyone who disagrees on PvE aspects please provide some screenshots of LFG dungeons and/or fractals49 specifically requesting a thief.

So, in terms of GuildWars2 gameplay and gamemodes as a whole we can see the thief is far from Overpowered and really only has niche environments to be truly effective. The OP with his bag of staff, bag of loot and 9999 citadel of flame tokens fell prey to that a couple of times…sometimes the impossible to kill couldnt kill the….well you get the point.

1) You used the words “skill” and “L2P” without anything to support them
On the opposite shadowstep alone is a skill that in WWW is a free out of jail card.
Takes 0 skill, has no counterplay and just answers everything.
Pair that with stealth….and you have the immortal thief.

Just to be sure add lot of evasions, the initiative system just to be sure to be immune to some CC like chill, and OP mobility and you have a profession that makes literally any beginner a serious issue.

Expecially since with little experience thief players learns how much gamechanging is their role as:

-scout
-camp flippers
-slowing players at spawn
-and much more…

Evrytime i read a thief saying “l2p” it really seems to me they are the ones lacking the experience to play against one in WWW with any other profession.

2) there is a limit at “good at roaming”…
Its more “immortal unless they really mess up everything” but its extremely hard to mess that much.

Last thing….. the fact some other professions are totally OP (see heavies for PvE) doesn t mean its a good excuse for thief to be OP at WWW.
And FYI thieves are being pushed into meta by fractal Patches since long time ago…(and Always were good for dungeons)
Issue is differently from WWW it takes skill to play effectively a thief in istances..

So low skill floor of WWW just made the community sceptic on accepting PvE thieves that have an high skill floor.

D/P 30 SA builds are broken in WvW.. the thieves know it. I won’t play it on my thief and I main a PU mesmer for the most part.

D/D thieves are ok, P/D condi aren’t terrible, SW/P builds are reasonable but D/P needs a nerf on stacking stealth by leaping through blind fields.

i dislike when players tell me thieves “abuse” stealth… we are only granted so much… how can we abuse it? Are they saying that by utilizing our classes core defensive and offensive ability that we are abusing it? I’m pretty sure for the past 2 months mesmers have been “abusing” stealth more than thieves. if a thief goes stealth you know you have between 4-5 seconds before he is going to break it. most good thieves know to hold onto it for as long as they can. even if you’re fighting a dp thief you know he is going to have to put down blind fields to hold that stealth, so you can watch for those to understand relative distance to prepare yourself. And SR is obviously the wild card. A thief with 12 seconds of stealth! He is mostly likely not using that to set up a BS. He’s probably recouping, running, or ressing a dead ally. So take advantage of your 12 seconds!! dont just sit there in combat! Either break combat yourself, or try and remain in combat! If you’re still in combat ( keep that poison off you) then chances are he is too.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

zapv.8051:

LOL almost every class can 2 shot a zerker thief. It is pretty easy, when they get low on health and try to stealth interrupt them. If they have blinding powder they will use that on the interrupt. Then you just need to do the same thing again. That or spam aoe. Every class has decent ways to deal with a thief. It’s about using them intelligently. Having said that a really strong thief is hard to kill especially in wvw, but so is almost every other class with a good player.

No they arn’t

Thief in Wvw:
Evade, Evade, Dodge,Dodge, Stealth, regen, Evade, Evade, hit for 4k, evade, stealth, hit for 4 k evade, evade, stun, stealth hit for 8k.. rinse and repeat..

other professions,,*Miss,Miss,Doesn’t cast, No target, Miss, Miss, I’m Stunned & got hit for 4k, Miss, Miss, No target, Evaded, Evaded, Miss, No target, hit for 8K.. rinse and repeat..

Standard operation for me when im on thief and basicly all i do is watch my Ini-Bar.

If that is how you see thieves then I have serious doubts about the fact that you are indeed playing one. If they had access to all these things then they would indeed be OP, the problem is they can’t. Fully speccing in evades and stealth forces them to sacrifice their damage, fully speccing in dodges and damage gives them no beneficial effects in stealth and fully speccing in stealth and damage gives them the same amount of endurance like all other classes. Given that most thieves only run 1 stun break (Shadowstep), a well placed CC after that gives you a rooted thief that is just sitting there and eating your damage.