Guild Wars 2

Just read the coming up new ready-up note. Apparently anet isn’t very happy about current rangers situation for "too many rangers are using longbows ",maybe anet is planning longbows nerf in the future, I don’t know…
On the other hand, other class players have been complaining rangers over-use their longbows in almost every mode of gameplay, they are pewpewpew-ing everywhere and anytime. Some even,complaining that is op.
Well,what I am try to say is. Despite that longbow is iconic weapon of rangers and so many players do enjoy using them. There is also a critical fact is: some of weapon options to rangers are very underpowered, yet some are badly flawed. As a class,ranger is far from fixed as a decent class, don’t mention being " overpowered".
For pve:
Great sword is just a joke, the only use to me is use swoop to catch up boss train and block to deflect attack to stay ooc. Maul was improved, but compare to warriors 30-40k damage and short CD. It is still stay as a joke.
Short bow and main hand axe: not bad improvement, but sorry gw2 is not friendly to dot build unless you’d like to carry two set of gears to support your pve activities. And short bows aoe? Way do I have to choose it when lb can do better in both single target and aoe? Main hand axe has similar problem.
Off hand axe and horn and torch: they are OK so no comments, the point is, when your have no decent main hand weapons, what’s value of them?
Daggers, maybe it is only pvp ? Sorry when I do boss train, what I need is running a lot ,so only GS or horn. And in dungeon, extra dodge and poison aren’t needed alot, I rather prefer off hand axe to improve damage.
Sword, probably the best alternative option to longbows, and probably most-hated weapon in ranger class. Anet still didn’t fix the rooting problem(as always) of #1 skill, so when rangers enjoy its decent damage they also suffer from helplessness to dodge attacks.and #2 skill is still retreat>leap order. If you want to do boss run sword #2 can’t help you at all which leaving you to swoop all the way in the wild.(unless you’d like to do pure melee ranger), which narrows down its use.
OK,so short bow and axe are dot oriented and have funny aoe: not good. Great sword is defensive weapon and damage is just a joke, its only use is swoop around to help rangers not to fallen behind too far from warriors and eles at boss run. Like sword? It helps rangers to kill both bosses and themselves very fast. So what should we do? Longbows? We use longbows too much and anet isn’t very happy about that…

OK, just to sum up: indeed nowadays rangers rely on longbow too much: but it is not because it is op, well just opsite, compare to short bow,axe (main),greatsword and sword. Longbow is only one “normal” weapon left for rangers to pick.

On the other hand, apart from weapons, rangers are far from “done fixing”:
Useless shouts
Awkward pets system
Hard-to-use spirits (both active and passive abilities)
Weak traps
…
Do I have to list them all? And I am done suggesting my ideas in previous CDI post,so here not to mention them again.

Currently players in the LFG system is heavily biased. If you are rangers using lfg, you get kicked at first place (for pewing too much I guess) or you are asked NOT to use longbow! Personally, I prefer that suicidal sword as my second option. Because that with that funny damage greatsword axe or short bow. I will get kicked again (for low damage). Trust me. It can happen anytime.

Now let me ask you:

" why there is too many rangers using longbow"

Well English is not my first language and I typed all these from my phones.
So apology ahead if I typed funny language.(oh also appreciate my android auto-spell function :p)

On this, I’m still kind of stuck on the fact that for other classes they improved underused skills, but for ranger they didn’t improve the underused weapons, but did that opposite thing.

I don’t wanna think they’d fold to the whining, but maybe they did.

don worry we gave the pewpew colors

Windsagio.1340:

On this, I’m still kind of stuck on the fact that for other classes they improved underused skills, but for ranger they didn’t improve the underused weapons, but did that opposite thing.

I don’t wanna think they’d fold to the whining, but maybe they did.

Don’t forget when Shortbow was nerfed to make it ‘more different’ from the underused Longbow, and encourage people to use Longbow more often. A 25% nerf to range, on top of the ‘fix’ to the attack animations which were too fast, pretty much ensured the Shortbow became useless for anything but bleed-stacking builds.

Instead of buffing the Longbow to make it more desirable, the Shortbow was nerfed instead. And guess what? Longbow was still mostly useless (to most people) until it was finally improved, only, the Shortbow remained useless.

I know that sounds kind of a little condescending and there’s probably a worse word for it, but that’s exactly how I saw it when I read the patch notes.

Dos.7052:

Just read the coming up new ready-up note. Apparently anet isn’t very happy about current rangers situation for "too many rangers are using longbows ",maybe anet is planning longbows nerf in the future, I don’t know…

Uhm no, the Devs are just trolling and having fun. They are often joking around similar to the change to the skyhammerS to feature more then one hammer.

For pve:

Personally I don’t feel the perfect balance is not that important in PvE, since most of the time, it does not matter at all how long it takes you to kill something as long as you get the credit for being a part of it.

Great sword is just a joke, the only use to me is use swoop to catch up boss train and block to deflect attack to stay ooc.

GS fills his role. Not every weapon has to be the perfect dps weapon.

Short bow and main hand axe:

Same as with GS, they perfectly fill their role. Yes, if you just want high range damage, then there is obviously only one choice, but that’s fine (it’s the same for every profession).

gw2 is not friendly to dot build

This f.e. is a good point to discuss further, but this is a ranger-only problem. Feel free to generate a topic purely focused on this.

Daggers, maybe it is only pvp ?

Try using it in an Axe/Dagger Trapper Condi Build.

The biggest thing holding back shortbow on ranger is the conditional bleed application. If it didn’t have the stupid flanking requirement, you’d see more people using shortbow with condition builds.

The thing holding axe main hand back is the fact its auto attack does pathetic damage. The auto attack needs to be buffed. Its also a weapon that doesn’t know what it wants to be. Is it a condition weapon? Is it a power weapon? Both stats scale horribly with this weapon. It sure as heck isn’t a utility weapon. The number two skill is horribly designed. In order to effectively use Splitblade, you have to be standing at point blank range for all the projectiles to hit. So its a ranged weapon that… requires melee range to use properly? Right… Winter’s Bite. Eh, I don’t know what to think about this skill. Its pretty underwhelming. First, the projectile is so slow, good luck ever landing the skill on anything other than at point blank range. Second, the attached pet component is incredibly badly designed (all attached pet components on ranger weapons are bad design, IMO). Good luck having your pet actually land an attack since they are completely incapable of attacking while moving at the same time. Personally, I think 3 seconds of chill isn’t enough. Should be 4 seconds baseline. The projectile speed of Winter’s Bite needs to be improved as well.

Sword main hand, this is an obvious fix. Remove the stupid leap component on auto attack and more people will start using it. The fact the auto attack locks you out of being able to dodge is a no brainer. It is the main reason I refuse to use the weapon on my ranger. I have no problems with how the other two abilities on sword main hand work. They’re great and I love them. The auto attack leap is the only reason I refuse to use this weapon. NO ONE should need to turn off their auto attack to effectively use a weapon. Spamming one button over and over again to circumvent a poorly designed game mechanic is not an excuse for having a poorly designed game mechanic.

Greatsword. The auto attack needs to do more damage. Its just bad. Rangers have no good melee weapons. Sword auto gets you killed, greatsword auto does pathetic damage. The other abilities are fine on this weapon set, I think.

Also, since we’re on the subject of rangers, devourer pets as a whole are useless. Do less damage than spiders, and their F2 skills offer nothing to compensate for the lack of damage. This is a real shame, because I love the concept of devourer pets.

Chrispy.5641:

Windsagio.1340:

On this, I’m still kind of stuck on the fact that for other classes they improved underused skills, but for ranger they didn’t improve the underused weapons, but did that opposite thing.

I don’t wanna think they’d fold to the whining, but maybe they did.

Don’t forget when Shortbow was nerfed to make it ‘more different’ from the underused Longbow, and encourage people to use Longbow more often. A 25% nerf to range, on top of the ‘fix’ to the attack animations which were too fast, pretty much ensured the Shortbow became useless for anything but bleed-stacking builds.

Instead of buffing the Longbow to make it more desirable, the Shortbow was nerfed instead. And guess what? Longbow was still mostly useless (to most people) until it was finally improved, only, the Shortbow remained useless.

I know that sounds kind of a little condescending and there’s probably a worse word for it, but that’s exactly how I saw it when I read the patch notes.

I think this is essentially what I’m hoping ArenaNet are keeping in mind when looking at ‘overuse’ of longbows. If one option is substantially more popular than the others, it could mean that that option is more powerful than it should be, that it’s at about the right spot but the alternatives are weak, or somewhere in between.

Now, the ranger is balanced with the presence of the pet in mind, so we shouldn’t be expecting a ranger to get quite the same sort of numbers as the warrior – but it does need to be kept in mind that if the longbow is being “overused”, the problem may not be with the longbow.

Longbow is fine except knock back, which they added a visible animation to it, so it’s fine.

They added a visible animation for PBShot, which is more then welcome. Every high impact ability needs to have a wind up to give room for counter play. Hopefully this will also reduce the number of complaints about rapid fire.

Jokes aside, I hope that the PBShot change is not made as the SB animation fix we had. (The Anet from 2 years ago I would expect this, but now I honestly don’t know and hope they improved on that and stopped with stealth nerfs).

However, I do say that the “too many rangers are using lonbows” and when you compare to the other ranger weapon options, it is very evident why that happens. LB has been fixed to a point where it is a reasonable weapon to use, but other weapons have not, and I say that on axe (main hand and off hand), SB, sword and dagger mostly (GS needs some fixes, but not as urgent as the others).

Hopefully they continue to take a step in the right direction and fix ranger weapons as a whole, rather than nerfing LB to the bottom level other weapons are. Who knows… one thing is for sure, forget any improvements on pets again, maybe 3-4 years from now after some expansions our mechanic gets half fixed.

I understand that GS is in good performance as designed as a “defensive weapon” and same to short bow and axe(good to PvP mode). But of you go to wvw or spvp you’d find that longbows are still overused rather than axes and short bows(I personally use sword and lb for damage). Hard to belive anet is giving rather so few balance in coming up fix. Even in PvP mode,does anet rly think rangers are “close to perfect” ?
On the other hand, it is quite sad to see you guys mention that “pve mode balance isn’t important to anet”, yes, sad but true. People say longbows is " quite done fixing" but its damage is still no match to worriors’s GS ,mesmers sword or thieves dagger. Not even that suicidal ranger sword can even the differences. As mentuoned by others, short bow, axe, GS are all for PvP or wvw, then what weapons really left for rangers to do pve?
Considering raid might come up in the future, i’m afraid with current performance, rangers will become new public-hater, in all modes.
People hate rangers pewing, but rangers can only pewing to meet their best, which is still underperformed. Pathetic and ironic, isn’kitten

There are more variables involved with the longbow that I hope ANet doesn’t ignore. For starters, most people prefer playing power oriented classes. Everyone likes bigs numbers. This is the first time since the Shortbow nerf nearly 1.5 years ago that a power build has been functional for the Ranger class.

On top of this, the vast majority of people who pick the Ranger class expect to play with bows. This is the first time sine the shortbow nerf that bows have actually stood out for the class. Does this sound pretty reasonable to everyone else? I would hope ANet considers this when they look at the number of people playing Longbow today.

It’s also worth noting that despite the changes the class received, the class is still ostracized in WvW. They aren’t having any real impact in PvP (judging from the forums as I don’t play it). Every dungeon group isn’t running with 1+ Rangers in it. Despite all the complaining, it would appear the class is quite mediocre overall and ANet is trying to disguise this mediocrity with excessively high damage on Rapid Fire. As if that will compensate the class for all its other failings.

The class still desperately needs a working class mechanic. The pet system is still a long ways off from being anything more than a handicap for the class. Especially in WvW where pets and minions for every class continue to be useless due to all the AE in this game.

The class still doesn’t have anything valuable to offer a group. It can’t fit into a front line role because the melee capability of the class is so poor outside of dueling. It can’t fit into a periphery role because it lacks the strong defensive tools like Warriors, Thieves, and Elementalists have. It doesn’t fill a support role because almost all utility is on the pets/minions and the healing well is pbae.

I’d be fine with losing some of the burst on RF and Maul if it meant the class had a vital niche to fill that was valuable in PvE, WvW, and PvP. But after 2 years no one has found it yet.

Sorry to say but your whole argument is wrong.

PvE wise: LB is just a secondary weapon for 2 skills, and then you swap to your main weapon (sword) unless you want to be either kicked or be carried by your group.

I take it they meant on the interview that a lot of rangers use LB in WvW (otherwise they don’t know their own game).

Fact is, that if you have a good dps range option in pvp, you are going to take it over melee options. This is simple logic. You have the advantage that you don’t have to be close to players to deal damage and therefore you can build more glassy.

About your sword comment… It’s been 2 years and people still complain about the “root”. Sorry but L2P is the only reply here. No, sword is not rangers’ more hated weapon. It is the n00b’s more hated weapon.

About GS, you need 2 weapon sets.

A huge majority of the power rangers you see right now use LB/GS.

~~~

That’s the other thing that got me a little upset. Some of the best classes in the game, with a range of excellent utilitites are getting utility buffs for the ones that aren’t so good. Ranger utilities are still such a sticky mess.

Maybe though that’s such a big problem they’re not sure how to fix it ><

draxynnic.3719:

Chrispy.5641:

Windsagio.1340:

On this, I’m still kind of stuck on the fact that for other classes they improved underused skills, but for ranger they didn’t improve the underused weapons, but did that opposite thing.

I don’t wanna think they’d fold to the whining, but maybe they did.

Don’t forget when Shortbow was nerfed to make it ‘more different’ from the underused Longbow, and encourage people to use Longbow more often. A 25% nerf to range, on top of the ‘fix’ to the attack animations which were too fast, pretty much ensured the Shortbow became useless for anything but bleed-stacking builds.

Instead of buffing the Longbow to make it more desirable, the Shortbow was nerfed instead. And guess what? Longbow was still mostly useless (to most people) until it was finally improved, only, the Shortbow remained useless.

I know that sounds kind of a little condescending and there’s probably a worse word for it, but that’s exactly how I saw it when I read the patch notes.

I think this is essentially what I’m hoping ArenaNet are keeping in mind when looking at ‘overuse’ of longbows. If one option is substantially more popular than the others, it could mean that that option is more powerful than it should be, that it’s at about the right spot but the alternatives are weak, or somewhere in between.

Now, the ranger is balanced with the presence of the pet in mind, so we shouldn’t be expecting a ranger to get quite the same sort of numbers as the warrior – but it does need to be kept in mind that if the longbow is being “overused”, the problem may not be with the longbow.

Its amazing that you think that…But if that’s how you feel, maybe we should….

Nerf Scepter so other weapons become more desirable to Elementalists in PvP

Nerf Daggers so Pistol/Pistol becomes more desirable for Thieves.

Nerf Hammer so Warriors feel their Mace is more powerful

Nerf Staff and Hammer so Guardians use other weapons in WvW

Nerf all weapons so Engineers are encouraged to use Kits more often

Nerf Glamour, Clones, and Manipulations so Mesmers are encouraged to use Signets and Mantras.

Yeah. I like your logic! Nerf instead of buff!

Chrispy.5641:

draxynnic.3719:

Chrispy.5641:

Windsagio.1340:

On this, I’m still kind of stuck on the fact that for other classes they improved underused skills, but for ranger they didn’t improve the underused weapons, but did that opposite thing.

I don’t wanna think they’d fold to the whining, but maybe they did.

Don’t forget when Shortbow was nerfed to make it ‘more different’ from the underused Longbow, and encourage people to use Longbow more often. A 25% nerf to range, on top of the ‘fix’ to the attack animations which were too fast, pretty much ensured the Shortbow became useless for anything but bleed-stacking builds.

Instead of buffing the Longbow to make it more desirable, the Shortbow was nerfed instead. And guess what? Longbow was still mostly useless (to most people) until it was finally improved, only, the Shortbow remained useless.

I know that sounds kind of a little condescending and there’s probably a worse word for it, but that’s exactly how I saw it when I read the patch notes.

I think this is essentially what I’m hoping ArenaNet are keeping in mind when looking at ‘overuse’ of longbows. If one option is substantially more popular than the others, it could mean that that option is more powerful than it should be, that it’s at about the right spot but the alternatives are weak, or somewhere in between.

Now, the ranger is balanced with the presence of the pet in mind, so we shouldn’t be expecting a ranger to get quite the same sort of numbers as the warrior – but it does need to be kept in mind that if the longbow is being “overused”, the problem may not be with the longbow.

Its amazing that you think that…But if that’s how you feel, maybe we should….

Nerf Scepter so other weapons become more desirable to Elementalists in PvP

Nerf Daggers so Pistol/Pistol becomes more desirable for Thieves.

Nerf Hammer so Warriors feel their Mace is more powerful

Nerf Staff and Hammer so Guardians use other weapons in WvW

Nerf all weapons so Engineers are encouraged to use Kits more often

Nerf Glamour, Clones, and Manipulations so Mesmers are encouraged to use Signets and Mantras.

Yeah. I like your logic! Nerf instead of buff!

Uhhhh, I read his post totally different than you and I fully agree with him.

In my understanding, he was also agreeing with you. Basically he meant to say that ANET’s comment “Ranger using longbow too much” should lead them to the conclusion that it means the other ranger weapons are broken/ineffective/problematic, instead of following ANET’s previous strategy of nerfing something to the point it is best to use a worst weapon than to continue using the one that got nerfed (e.g., how they nerfed shortbow to the point it is rarely a viable weapon).

EDIT: Oh, and I can’t say it enough…. Although I agree that Ranger balance needs to account for the fact we have a constant pet, ANET should only, ever, use that argument for balance changes after they fix the ranger class mechanic, or, at the very least, make it so our class mechanic is somewhat of our special bonus (like class mechanics are for other classes) rather than a handicap.

Too much writing 4 me to read @ the bar watching a game. Most professions can reflect. Still, Rngr LB is cheese. I played with it all day, today. Do heavy damage and disengage when I need to leaving my pet behind.

Azel.4786:

Chrispy.5641:

draxynnic.3719:

Chrispy.5641:

Windsagio.1340:

On this, I’m still kind of stuck on the fact that for other classes they improved underused skills, but for ranger they didn’t improve the underused weapons, but did that opposite thing.

I don’t wanna think they’d fold to the whining, but maybe they did.

Don’t forget when Shortbow was nerfed to make it ‘more different’ from the underused Longbow, and encourage people to use Longbow more often. A 25% nerf to range, on top of the ‘fix’ to the attack animations which were too fast, pretty much ensured the Shortbow became useless for anything but bleed-stacking builds.

Instead of buffing the Longbow to make it more desirable, the Shortbow was nerfed instead. And guess what? Longbow was still mostly useless (to most people) until it was finally improved, only, the Shortbow remained useless.

I know that sounds kind of a little condescending and there’s probably a worse word for it, but that’s exactly how I saw it when I read the patch notes.

I think this is essentially what I’m hoping ArenaNet are keeping in mind when looking at ‘overuse’ of longbows. If one option is substantially more popular than the others, it could mean that that option is more powerful than it should be, that it’s at about the right spot but the alternatives are weak, or somewhere in between.

Now, the ranger is balanced with the presence of the pet in mind, so we shouldn’t be expecting a ranger to get quite the same sort of numbers as the warrior – but it does need to be kept in mind that if the longbow is being “overused”, the problem may not be with the longbow.

Its amazing that you think that…But if that’s how you feel, maybe we should….

Nerf Scepter so other weapons become more desirable to Elementalists in PvP

Nerf Daggers so Pistol/Pistol becomes more desirable for Thieves.

Nerf Hammer so Warriors feel their Mace is more powerful

Nerf Staff and Hammer so Guardians use other weapons in WvW

Nerf all weapons so Engineers are encouraged to use Kits more often

Nerf Glamour, Clones, and Manipulations so Mesmers are encouraged to use Signets and Mantras.

Yeah. I like your logic! Nerf instead of buff!

Uhhhh, I read his post totally different than you and I fully agree with him.

In my understanding, he was also agreeing with you. Basically he meant to say that ANET’s comment “Ranger using longbow too much” should lead them to the conclusion that it means the other ranger weapons are broken/ineffective/problematic, instead of following ANET’s previous strategy of nerfing something to the point it is best to use a worst weapon than to continue using the one that got nerfed (e.g., how they nerfed shortbow to the point it is rarely a viable weapon).

EDIT: Oh, and I can’t say it enough…. Although I agree that Ranger balance needs to account for the fact we have a constant pet, ANET should only, ever, use that argument for balance changes after they fix the ranger class mechanic, or, at the very least, make it so our class mechanic is somewhat of our special bonus (like class mechanics are for other classes) rather than a handicap.

Pet is unfixable in pvp, that’s just something you’ve got to live with. They just can’t make ai and pathing work against targets that don’t stop moving and can jump.

~~~

Still, I’d be totally satisfied with a tell on PBS if they also made it so that if the shot is so invalid that it doesn’t even launch a projectile you didn’t go on cooldown. The skill just failing is only going to be worse if that ‘tell’ has any kind of cast time related to it.

Windsagio.1340:

Pet is unfixable in pvp, that’s just something you’ve got to live with. They just can’t make ai and pathing work against targets that don’t stop moving and can jump.

I think some fixes could be made to pet, like making so we can control the use of the pet skills (all 4 of them) and actually improving the ability of the pet to hit moving targets to a decent level (maybe improving pet base speed / increasing pet attack range?).

However, for more than 2 years we had to struggle with a broken class mechanic. Anet needs to set a deadline for themselves on this, either fix it in the next big patch or finally give up on the pet mechanic as a whole and replace it with a new mechanic.

There comes a point when enough is enough and its completely wrong that one of the most defining traits of a class is broken since the alfa/beta stages of the game.

I would love to see pets dodge or block when red circles appear beneath them.

Azel.4786:

Uhhhh, I read his post totally different than you and I fully agree with him.

In my understanding, he was also agreeing with you. Basically he meant to say that ANET’s comment “Ranger using longbow too much” should lead them to the conclusion that it means the other ranger weapons are broken/ineffective/problematic, instead of following ANET’s previous strategy of nerfing something to the point it is best to use a worst weapon than to continue using the one that got nerfed (e.g., how they nerfed shortbow to the point it is rarely a viable weapon).

EDIT: Oh, and I can’t say it enough…. Although I agree that Ranger balance needs to account for the fact we have a constant pet, ANET should only, ever, use that argument for balance changes after they fix the ranger class mechanic, or, at the very least, make it so our class mechanic is somewhat of our special bonus (like class mechanics are for other classes) rather than a handicap.

Azel’s interpretation is correct – my whole point was that ‘too many of profession X are using option Y’ could very well mean that Y is the only viable option for X and the profession as a whole needs buffing, not that Y is OP and needs nerfing. Which, given the general attitude towards the ranger as a whole and that the ranger tends not to have ranger players standing up and defending the profession against the accusation of being UP as happens for other professions, I think is probably about right.

(Incidentally, another thing that needs to be kept in mind, particularly in lower-end play, is that people may take a particular option because they think it’s cool or that it’s a better fit for the aesthetics of the profession, not because it’s actually better. This is particularly true with the ranger, particularly since a lot of people think that it means ‘someone who uses ranged weapons’, even if the actual etymology is quite different.)

Just keep in mind that overall profession comparisons need to take into account the expected effect of the pet – you can’t expect a ranger to be every bit as good as a warrior without a pet and then get the pet for free on top of that. Then everyone would go ranger, because however flawed, a free pet is a free pet. On the other hand, such balance considerations need to be honest about how effective the pet is actually able to be – it’s obviously not fair to ‘charge’ a ranger for a pet having a theoretical DPS of 500 (say) if in practise the flaws in controlling it means that you can usually expect to get less than half of that.

(Personally, I find the pet to be more of an asset than a handicap overall, but then, I don’t take my ranger into competitive PvP or high-end PvE.)

Well, like after every major balance patch, players will focus on the weapons or skills that were changed. Let it go as it is for another month or two and see how the playing field settles.

I have a problem with LB, not because the max damage build does not make them squishy enough, but because it promotes lazy play by encouraging some to remain at the back of the zerg or perched on walls with relatively easy escape routes where they can disengage and retrait for close combat. With a pet to run interference, it makes “bear-bow” worse. I would rather see Ranger get more ranger-ish options for close combat.

How about something like an ability to jump onto a Moa and ride with a 25% speed bonus when not in combat and stay on until dismounting. (Now why did I think of FF just now?) The pet does not prevent falling damage or anything not available to the player and the player could more directly control pet positioning. They might share health, too. It would replace a rune or signet for movements speed opening up Ranger for more build diversity and be somewhat fun.

“Too Many” is just all the people who originally wanted to play with a bow but couldn’t because it was terrible.
Want people to use other stuff? Make it not suck too.

Just because they choose to do lazy play it does not promote it or force a ranger to use Said build those people that sit behind lines and zergs for a meat sheild are lazy players in general its the people not the builds.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Just because they choose to do lazy play it does not promote it or force a ranger to use Said build those people that sit behind lines and zergs for a meat sheild are lazy players in general its the people not the builds.

The only viable build the class has that isn’t long range is condi bunker which is similarly passive play. The whole class is designed around passive play. Asking players to not play that way would require them to not play the class at all. Which coincidently is what’s been happening for months prior to this most recent patch.

I don’t even know how you would go about making a ranged clkitten passive in general.

I’d say the longbow as it is right now is fine. It got some needed buffs and now it’s actually a decent weapon. It’s the ranger’s other weapon sets that are sub-par. That’s the problem when you buff one weapon with problems, but ignore the other weapons that have their own problems.

I say this as someone who doesn’t use a ranger as a main (mostly because of some of its shortcomings), so I’m not even defending the buff because I use the class a lot. I’d just feel really bad for ranger players if their only truly good weapon got nerfed again after finally becoming viable.

Dos.7052:

" why there is too many rangers using longbow"

Two things I am not happy about.

They needed metrics to realize this
They apparently had no clue this would happen

There are “too many” rangers using longbow because you let them do ridiculous dps from 1500 range.

You need metrics for that?

I’m fine with the LB as it is, but I’m frankly surprised they didn’t see that coming.

It’s like they expected a reasonable amount of rangers to go
“Oh my staple weapon just got buffed significantly, Hurr guess I’ll go use Greatsword!”

I fully agree with the OP that the longbow is an iconic weapon for the ranger, and as such, it should at least be among his better weapon options. I personally made a ranger as my first character because I wanted to use a bow, long before learning about any of the inherent problems with ranged weapons in this game, and long before learning how the community frowns upon the “bearbow” build. I think it’s really sad that, for the longest time, people would automatically assume you were a noob if you equipped a longbow on a ranger. Now, with the buff, they still think you are a noob, but now they actually hate you for being rewarded with great damage for your noobish playstyle.

I do agree with the complainers, however, that the current burst damage of Longbow #2 (Rapid Fire) is too high, which has an unbalancing effect on WvW, especially. I really hope that ANet will find a way to keep the longbow in the great state it is currently in terms of overall DPS, while simultaneously reducing the ‘one button kill’ potential (in WvW, especially) of Rapid Fire.

I agree, nerfing a weapon without actually nerfing its overall DPS may seem difficult, but here are my a couple of ways I would try to fix this situation:

1) Reduce the damage, but not the Vuln. stacks applied by Rapid Fire. Make it better than autoattack, but slightly reduce its potential to knock off at least half a health bar on a player not geared in PTV.

2) Further improve long-range shot, for example, by adding the projectile speed buff granted by Read the Wind as a baked-in passive, as it should have been all along! The way we are currently forced to choose among Read the Wind, Eagle Eye, Piercing Arrows and Spotter is just ridiculous anyway. Change Read the Wind to an attack speed increase – it is still valuable enough as that. A 10% attack speed = 10% DPS increase is more than enough value for a trait that is in a line most people want to invest heavily into anyways.

3) Slightly increase the regular attack speed or damage of Long-range shot, so that a larger portion of the Longbow’s DPS comes from this ability, rather than Rapid Fire. IMO, the problem people complain about in WvW is the incredible burst DPS of Rapid Fire, not the overall damage they receive in longer fights. By buffing Long-range shot ever so slightly, you may compensate for the damage we lose when you nerf Rapid Fire (which I am 95% certain ANet is planning to do). At the same time, the damage from Long-range shot is more steady than the extremely ‘spiky’ burst of Rapid Fire, and should therefore be easier to avoid or soak. WvW problem solved.

In short, I really hope that whatever nerfs ANet plans to perform on Rapid Fire will not reduce the Longbow back to a very weak weapon option for the ranger. The longbow is an iconic weapon for the ranger class and is the reason many players choose to play a ranger in the first place. Please do not destroy this.

Rapid shot is not the problem nor are any other 2-5 skills, the problem is the fact that the auto attack damage is way to high for 1500 range and that AA puts out way to much sustained pressure.

LB puts out more damage with AA from range than any melee AA chain and that is where the problem lies.

List of Weapon Traits, by Weapon:

Longbow
Piercing Arrows
Eagle Eye
Read the Wind
Quick Draw

Axe
Honed Axes
Off-Hand Training

Greatsword
Martial Mastery
Two-Handed Training

Harpoon Gun
Eagle Eye
Read the Wind

Shortbow
Piercing Arrows
Quick Draw

Spear
Martial Mastery
Two-Handed Training

Dagger
Off-Hand Training

Sword
Martial Mastery

Torch
Off-Hand Training

Warhorn
Off-Hand Training

Gee, do you think that maybe the reason that there are so many Rangers using Longbows has anything to do with the fact that we have twice as many Longbow traits as any other weapon? I mean, it certainly gives the impression that maybe the Longbow is an important weapon, since it is listed so many times in the traits. Also, the description of the class as an “unparalleled archer” might contribute to that as well.

I’d wager that the majority of people who created Rangers did so to play an archer. Now that the longbow has been fixed so that it is useable, you’re going to see a LOT of Rangers dusting off their old bows and fighting from range.

mtpelion.4562:

Gee, do you think that maybe the reason that there are so many Rangers using Longbows has anything to do with the fact that we have twice as many Longbow traits as any other weapon? I mean, it certainly gives the impression that maybe the Longbow is an important weapon, since it is listed so many times in the traits. Also, the description of the class as an “unparalleled archer” might contribute to that as well.

I’d wager that the majority of people who created Rangers did so to play an archer. Now that the longbow has been fixed so that it is useable, you’re going to see a LOT of Rangers dusting off their old bows and fighting from range.

This is exactly what I mean. Most of us who rolled ranger did so because they wanted to tame pets and shoot bows. This is the initial romance of the class, a romance that may not attract you personally, but that should nevertheless have a place in the game.

I think it is really sad how conflicted the messages are that this game sends off to new players wanting to play a ranger. First it tells them: yes, you can play this way, it works great, and look, here’s a pet to hold things at a distance. Come explore this wide open world where your imagination can run free and you can play any way you like.

Then, the community of the game forms the consensus that you can’t, in fact, play any way you like, because if you play certain builds, you are a de facto noob. And up to the most recent patch, they were kind of right.. the damage was kind of weak, not to mention the mechanical problems of staying at range (which means you easily miss out on might stacks and other important buffs).

While I’m all in favor of build diversity, I really want the ranger to at least be able to fulfill that role of ‘peerless archer’ excellently, as that is the iconic, central attraction of the class for me. If I wanted to splice skulls with a greatsword, I’d have rolled a warrior.

I realize many of the things I am saying here may sound like they are coming from the mouth of a total newb, but I am just trying to give voice to the opinions that I’m sure 90% of the rangers who are not, or barely active on this or any other GW2 forum share with me. Remember, most players in this game are newbies, and this was supposed to be a game where you could play as you like!

Silhouette

Then, the community of the game forms the consensus that you can’t, in fact, play any way you like, because if you play certain builds, you are a de facto noob.

Yep.

Cant get over Rapid fire being good.
Cant get over stealth.
Cant get over HS.
Cant get over Elementalist heals.
Cant get over Turret engie.
Cant get over perma fear.
Cant get over mediguard.
Cant get over PU mesmer.

Just take note that what you have mentioned here applies to every class, and Anet is listening to the qq for some classes but not others.

That is my only issue with balance for this game. Either you tell everyone or nobody to suck it up. Ranger does not deserve obscure borderline useless play, and neither does anyone else. the community has gotten the idea that some classes should be generally more free kill than others though across the board, due to the nature of their playstyle. .

beast melee ranger (not me)
https://www.youtube.com/user/cooperjoe234
fox our saviour (from longbow)

Dos.7052:

Now let me ask you:

" why there is too many rangers using longbow"

I’ll speak for myself, but if i wanted to use a sword or axe i’d have gone warrior.

Well for me personally, I play a ranger because I want to use a longbow. If Anet intends on nerfing it so the Rangers are somewhat of a joke again, I suppose I’ll have to hop on another class.

Like Airos, if I wanted to use a sword or Axe, or a GS, i’d jump on my warrior.

ANet really fails to understand a core concept:

Approximately 20-30% of all fantasy MMO players use archery as a preferred combat style.

So with longbow becoming somewhat viable and only existing on two classes, one of which does not play at all like an archer, it’s not at all surprising why so many people are playing the class with said build. Not to mention all the FoTM’ers using RF specs for easy burst combos.

Ranger shortbow was mandatory for the better part of two whole years. I actually don’t think I saw a competitive Ranger with a longbow during that time even once. In fact most high level Rangers didn’t use bows full stop lol.

It’s just the cycle of wild nerfs/buffs, if you think the devs have any clear vision whatsoever for where they want the Ranger or any other class to be well I have some marshland in Florida to sell you muffin.

They described Mesmer as a “ranged 1 v. 1 DPS dealer” not so long back, please if someone can even translate that to English from Anetese I’ll be in your eternal servitude.

The whole idea of rangers was meant to be the master of archery. So it’s should be expected that players who play rangers to prefer longbows as their primary weapons just as warriors prefer greatswords. To try and nerf longbows would be a bad idea, esp for that reason. I main a warrior and I am happy for Rangers that they finally have a viable weapon for burst. I have no issues with their rapid fire. I think it’s nice that Rangers can finally give me a good fight.

They need to increase the recharge on Rapid-Fire or lower the damage by 20%. That’s about it.

Xillllix.3485:

They need to increase the recharge on Rapid-Fire or lower the damage by 20%. That’s about it.

If they do that, can they then improve the class in other areas so it can finally break into the WvW/GvG and PvP meta? Especially with a non-condi/bunker build?

As powerful as these changes were, the class still has a long ways to go…

Doon.2364:

The whole idea of rangers was meant to be the master of archery. So it’s should be expected that players who play rangers to prefer longbows as their primary weapons just as warriors prefer greatswords. To try and nerf longbows would be a bad idea, esp for that reason. I main a warrior and I am happy for Rangers that they finally have a viable weapon for burst. I have no issues with their rapid fire. I think it’s nice that Rangers can finally give me a good fight.

Pretty much this

It even says in their description that they are unparalleled archers. That to me means Rangers will be mainly using Longbows and should be better with them than warriors.

With that said, they are still off compared to other classes; my elementalist, warrior, and guardian still do far more overall damage. If anything they should reduce the cooldown on rapid fire and increase it’s damage, or even make it splash damage.

This may sound ridiculous to some…

The style I play (if I’m WvW’ing and zerg fighting), the enemy should prefer me on Ranger as opposed to say my Ele. My ele can do far superior damage in groups, hit quicker, better combos, and has much better escape potential.

It would be nice if a Ranger was capable of something similar as well.

Windsagio.1340:

Pet is unfixable in pvp, that’s just something you’ve got to live with. They just can’t make ai and pathing work against targets that don’t stop moving and can jump.

I wish they would make an option to merge with/consume the pet in some way. I just have a bias against permanent pet classes. The AI for pets just seems to be terrible in all games so far and it annoys me having that constant pet running around/doing unintended things/not doing intended things. It especially bothers me that they count the pet as part of the class damage and it fails to deliver that damage consistently.

If they had a mechanic similar to mesmer’s shattered strength or a merge option like destroying the pet and having the player take on aspects of the pet in exchange…I would really consider playing the ranger class.

I would also need them to do some serious rework on ranger weapons. I can confess to being seriously annoyed and kick happy with rangers in fractals/dungeon groups. I go into a rage every time I see that bear/bow set up. When the entire group is in melee combat and then the ranger is like half a map away spamming lb…that irritates. If the melee weapons were better, that would be awesome. It has been said numerous times by others, ranger pbaoe moves like aoe healing and such…are completely useless to the group when they are used away from the group.

Xillllix.3485:

They need to increase the recharge on Rapid-Fire or lower the damage by 20%. That’s about it.

Oh really? Make it worse than what is was even before the reduced the casting time on it? That’s excellent, excellent balancing (not).
I’d rather take the old 4,5 second channel back then, but the skill is fine as it is now.

Honestly, im just tired of doing some hotjoins for fun, and running into 2-4 rangers on the same team all using LB #2 on me. One ability shouldn’t have such range, such dmg, and such a short cd.

I was all for buffing ranger… but not enabling everyone to hit LB #2 to win.

Kahrgan.7401:

Honestly, im just tired of doing some hotjoins for fun, and running into 2-4 rangers on the same team all using LB #2 on me. One ability shouldn’t have such range, such dmg, and such a short cd.

I was all for buffing ranger… but not enabling everyone to hit LB #2 to win.

Translation: I can’t take it when 2 to 4 people on full glass gear/traits, are focusing on me using their biggest burst ability, when I’m grabbing my coffee and can’t evade it. Nerf it please!

Kahrgan.7401:

Honestly, im just tired of doing some hotjoins for fun, and running into 2-4 rangers on the same team all using LB #2 on me. One ability shouldn’t have such range, such dmg, and such a short cd.

I was all for buffing ranger… but not enabling everyone to hit LB #2 to win.

Here’s pro tip:

- use http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Aura or similar ability in that case
- wait 2,5 seconds
- use finisher 4 times
- profit….

Nice, right?

Kahrgan.7401:

Honestly, im just tired of doing some hotjoins for fun, and running into 2-4 rangers on the same team all using LB #2 on me. One ability shouldn’t have such range, such dmg, and such a short cd.

I was all for buffing ranger… but not enabling everyone to hit LB #2 to win.

Ummm everyone has moved on, ele’s are op this week. Try and keep up.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Xillllix.3485:

They need to increase the recharge on Rapid-Fire or lower the damage by 20%. That’s about it.

Oh really? Make it worse than what is was even before the reduced the casting time on it? That’s excellent, excellent balancing (not).
I’d rather take the old 4,5 second channel back then, but the skill is fine as it is now.

Rangers were find before. It’s was already a good WvW and PvP class. No class should have such burst damage skills at such long range. Right now Rapid Fire feels like the crit nerf never happen for that class.
Elementalists meteors were nerfed from 10k to 4k on full berserkers builds (60% nerf: crit nerf and meteornado nerf + aoe circle so you can dodge out). Backstab was nerfed from 12k to 7k with the crit nerf, yet rangers press 1 key and do 15k damage from a 1500 range.

It’s totally unneeded and unwanted, and another fail balance mistake to add to the list.

Xillllix.3485:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Xillllix.3485:

They need to increase the recharge on Rapid-Fire or lower the damage by 20%. That’s about it.

Oh really? Make it worse than what is was even before the reduced the casting time on it? That’s excellent, excellent balancing (not).
I’d rather take the old 4,5 second channel back then, but the skill is fine as it is now.

Rangers were find before. It’s was already a good WvW and PvP class. No class should have such burst damage skills at such long range. Right now Rapid Fire feels like the crit nerf never happen for that class.
Elementalists meteors were nerfed from 10k to 4k on full berserkers builds (60% nerf: crit nerf and meteornado nerf + aoe circle so you can dodge out). Backstab was nerfed from 12k to 7k with the crit nerf, yet rangers press 1 key and do 15k damage from a 1500 range.

It’s totally unneeded and unwanted, and another fail balance mistake to add to the list.

You might want to go test things out before throwing those numbers around