Guild Wars 2

out of all the classes in the game what class do you feel is no challenge anymore ?

this thread is entirely based on pvp / wvw metrics , pve talking points need not apply for debate .

in my opinion i feel necros got the worst of it . minions are still useless in wvw and flesh golem is even more worthless , well of blood got hit with a nasty nerf , anet is clearly trying to force necros to be a melee based class when they as a caster class should be ranged . i just do not see the point of playing such a worthless class when their wells are the only thing considered of worth in wvw , not that it matters much when condition removal is taking so much away from a necromancers pure offense , stability and break frees wreck necros crowed control in fights . i seriously think that this will be a class largely ignored for wvw / pvp fights. when was the last time you saw a minion master and tremble in your boots ? maybe never and even more so after the latest patch .

no one knows how to play necro including you. nos’ condi build is still OP in 1v1’s and decent in team fights.

warrs probably got hit the hardest next to thief. shatter mesmer was also hit with the stealth nerf to mirror blade.

Thief got hit the most. lol.. Warrior first? Lets compare buffs, then lets compare the useful buffs that actually matter. Thief had 1. hit up to 2 targets D/x autoattack. Which necro’s also got.

I’d say necromancer got hit much worse many patches before. This time around, it’s been pretty much same old same old. It’s not good, in fact the Well of Blood nerf is pretty bad. But it’s pretty consistent with how the class has always been ‘balanced’ (-in massive sarcasm quotes). Overall the necro has always been neglected. I can’t honestly say that this patch was worse than other changes we’ve had (Dhuumfire, the DS health spill change).

EDIT: GRRRR, dumb forum censorship. I can’t even combine the words “as” and the word “some” in a sentence, because the forum thinks I’m using a word for someone’s posterior. Grow up forum censor!

Warrior.

There main class skill, Adrenaline got completely butchered, so its completely unusable. It goes down so fast now Warriors can’t use there F1 class skill on any weapon, which removes all those skills from the game completely.

Its like Necro losing there Death Shroud or thieves having no iniative or Rangers having no pets or Ele’s having no attunements…

No contest Warrior’s Adrenaline.

Meglobob.8620:

Warrior.

There main class skill, Adrenaline got completely butchered, so its completely unusable. It goes down so fast now Warriors can’t use there F1 class skill on any weapon, which removes all those skills from the game completely.

Its like Necro losing there Death Shroud or thieves having no iniative or Rangers having no pets or Ele’s having no attunements…

No contest Warrior’s Adrenaline.

Your acting like warriors lost all ability to hit their burst skills. If they literally didn’t have the mechanic then it would be like necros not having DS, thieves not having initiative, etc. The change that was implemented just makes it so that warriors lose adrenaline out of combat, and warriors can’t completely miss their burst skills with no punishment. I know many warrior players are used to having skills with absolutely no drawbacks (Healing sig, stances, signet of rage), but believe it or not that’s how most classes function all the time. For example, bad thieves tend to spam heartseeker for dps, but good players will negate this damage and then the thief is out of initiative for all their weapon skills.

zapv.8051:

Meglobob.8620:

Warrior.

There main class skill, Adrenaline got completely butchered, so its completely unusable. It goes down so fast now Warriors can’t use there F1 class skill on any weapon, which removes all those skills from the game completely.

Its like Necro losing there Death Shroud or thieves having no iniative or Rangers having no pets or Ele’s having no attunements…

No contest Warrior’s Adrenaline.

Your acting like warriors lost all ability to hit their burst skills. If they literally didn’t have the mechanic then it would be like necros not having DS, thieves not having initiative, etc. The change that was implemented just makes it so that warriors lose adrenaline out of combat, and warriors can’t completely miss their burst skills with no punishment. I know many warrior players are used to having skills with absolutely no drawbacks (Healing sig, stances, signet of rage), but believe it or not that’s how most classes function all the time. For example, bad thieves tend to spam heartseeker for dps, but good players will negate this damage and then the thief is out of initiative for all their weapon skills.

Warriors do get punish when they missed, their burst skills goes on cooldown. You are acting like thieves initiatives don’t regenerate fast, probably faster than the warrior’s burst cooldown. With the new adrenaline nerf, warrior will have to account for both cooldown and rebuilding adrenaline. It’s not like warrior’s burst skills are that great, most are very easily dodge or a cc type move that can be countered by cleanse or stunbreak.

Most warriors are fine with losing adrenaline on miss change. It’s the fact that the adrenaline decay out of combat too fast that gives them problem. Thieves can disengage a fight and make warrior adrenaline goes to zero instantly and never have to worry about their burst skills. Another complaint warriors have is that the burst skills are nerfed to the point that the risk/reward doesn’t warrant such a harsh nerf on adrenaline.

Doon.2364:

Warriors do get punish when they missed, their burst skills goes on cooldown. You are acting like thieves initiatives don’t regenerate fast, probably faster than the warrior’s burst cooldown. With the new adrenaline nerf, warrior will have to account for both cooldown and rebuilding adrenaline. It’s not like warrior’s burst skills are that great, most are very easily dodge or a cc type move that can be countered by cleanse or stunbreak.

Most warriors are fine with losing adrenaline on miss change. It’s the fact that the adrenaline decay out of combat too fast that gives them problem. Thieves can disengage a fight and make warrior adrenaline goes to zero instantly and never have to worry about their burst skills. Another complaint warriors have is that the burst skills are nerfed to the point that the risk/reward doesn’t warrant such a harsh nerf on adrenaline.

A cooldown of 8-10 seconds on an most warrior burst skills is insane. The effects of these skills is incredible and often highly underrated on the forum. Thieves initiative doesn’t regenerate that fast, and their total skill output is usually lower than other classes. Most warrior burst skills are dodgeable because they have such strong effects on such low cooldowns. If Eviscerate was easy to hit you would kill some one in 20 seconds almost every time. Also, many of warriors burst skills aren’t any easier to dodge than a mesmer’s shatter combo, necro’s reaper’s mark or Signet of Spite, elementalist burning speed, or engineer grenades or magnet pull. Part of the drawback to the class is that people can counter it with skill, but against beginners it is faceroll. If Anet wanted the warrior to be harder to counter with skilled play they would likely have to nerf many of the burst skills because of how strong they are if they hit currently.

In pvp, if a thief has to disengage from the fight you just decapped/capped or gained an advantage in a teamfight. That’s a win in my book. In wvw roaming there are at least 10 builds I can name off the top of my head that will take a mediocre player and allow them to 1vs2 easily, so any complaints about balancing problems in that scenario are a moot point. I mean if you want to rebalance the class because of that one engagement in wvw you’d also have to rebalance terror necro, p/d thief, d/p thief, medi guard, shatter mesmer, pu mesmer (Still), triple kit engi, hgh engi, rapid fire ranger, d/d elementalist, and axe/shield greatsword warrior because all those build can easily 1vs2 in wvw. As I’ve shown above, thieves disengaging against warriors isn’t an issue in pvp, and it is only one of many imbalances (if you can even call it that) in wvw, so asking for a change because of that is kind of silly.

As for the risk reward argument, your out of your mind if you think warriors burst skills have high risk, or low reward. Combustive shot, eviscerate, and earthshaker can singlehandely change a fight on a 10 second cooldown. By burning that 10 second cooldown a warrior sacrifices very little. Especially considering how quickly they can regen that adrenaline. In all honesty, I think warriors are just but hurt their class is no longer easy mode against noobs, and while I do think the class could use changes (i.e. buffs in exchange for nerfs to other things), they certainly aren’t in a bad place and will still be viable in all gamemodes. Considering that necros are still bottom tier in pve and have been since launch, and that rangers frost spirit ninjanerf puts them in an almost as bad position, I can’t see how anyone could justify buffs to warriors before those two classes.

IMO Warrior got hit the worst.

The adrenaline loss on miss was a good change to balancing risk vs reward.
The adrenaline loss in out of combat was a huge nerf that affect all warrior builds, not just one or two, and warriors cannot start any fight with burst skills without sloting one utility or a heal to gain adrenaline and in both cases they are wasting the utility on the skill to do that.
Right after the patch i needed to change my gameplay with warrior.
With thiefs and necros i still do the same. I didn´t notice the nerfs the way i notice with warrior.

lorndarken.3702:

out of all the classes in the game what class do you feel is no challenge anymore ?

this thread is entirely based on pvp / wvw metrics , pve talking points need not apply for debate .

in my opinion i feel necros got the worst of it . minions are still useless in wvw and flesh golem is even more worthless , well of blood got hit with a nasty nerf , anet is clearly trying to force necros to be a melee based class when they as a caster class should be ranged . i just do not see the point of playing such a worthless class when their wells are the only thing considered of worth in wvw , not that it matters much when condition removal is taking so much away from a necromancers pure offense , stability and break frees wreck necros crowed control in fights . i seriously think that this will be a class largely ignored for wvw / pvp fights. when was the last time you saw a minion master and tremble in your boots ? maybe never and even more so after the latest patch .

Necros are good in tpvp

The diffrence is Warrior needed a Nerf and necro Condi is still pretty good, Necro power is horrible atm and has bin for a while. “mesmer got hit hard”… you must be jokeing.

on Power side Nec & Engi are behind, far behind even. On condi side alot of classes except maybe Guard is viable atm, some better some worse with Thief in top. Anet desided a year back to make Condi imho to powerful.

in sPvP Power and Condi is both seen alot
in WvW Condi dominates 1v1 or smallscale, Power still dominates Zerg

and in PvE… well idc

Condition guard may not be popular but works the RF change helped them with more sustain. I have been running the spec since April 15th and had some good results but it’s not much needed in high end pvp (same problem as a burst med guard foe “can” escape)

Booms.2594:

no one knows how to play necro including you. nos’ condi build is still OP in 1v1’s and decent in team fights.

warrs probably got hit the hardest next to thief. shatter mesmer was also hit with the stealth nerf to mirror blade.

I’m inclined to agree with this to be honest… for whatever reason there’s very few people who realize how incredibly powerful a properly played (or properly abused) Necro is. It’s been that way since launch, well before Dhuumfire and the like.

Most necro builds aren’t really useful in SoloQ when it comes down to defending a node I think. And the comparison above between warriors adrenaline and necro’s deathshroud is simply ridiculous. But to return to the OP: Necro’s didn’t really improve but also didn’t really get any worse, so they are not hit the hardest with the patch.

as I clearly said, I will now say again for above persons: Condi necro isnt in a bad state, its top3 Condi but it isnt as good as PD Thief. What the problem is that Power Necro in smallscale, solo, or even to some degree in sPvP is a sitting duck… no1 fears what cant get away, he is always first target in any PvP situation for just that reason, if u dont agree u either lying or never played one…

Ravezaar.4951:

as I clearly said, I will now say again for above persons: Condi necro isnt in a bad state, its top3 Condi but it isnt as good as PD Thief. What the problem is that Power Necro in smallscale, solo, or even to some degree in sPvP is a sitting duck… no1 fears what cant get away, he is always first target in any PvP situation for just that reason, if u dont agree u either lying or never played one…

I don’t even know where to begin with the part about condition Thieves and power Necro is much stronger than people give it credit for.

shimmerless.4560:

I don’t even know where to begin with the part about condition Thieves and power Necro is much stronger than people give it credit for.

Condi is really strong atm. It had it’s ups and downs but was always playable since release.
Power is ok and can have really strong impact on fights.

The problem for me is: condi is boring and really old school in terms of gameplay, too much ground targeted stuff + sceptre feels like your playing wow and not gw2 where everyone else plays the “swing your sword in wide arcs”-game.

Also you got those necs who dislike condi and the ~only option that remains is power.
This option has the downside of:
1. beeing AA-heavy (see lich, DS, dagger1)
2. Playing like war from over a year ago.
You might remember that time where people compared warrior to thieves without teleports(somewhat untrue for nec), crazy amount of dodges and stealth because they circled around the fights and try to find the right opportunity to strike.
This was due to not enough survivability to stay in the fight for a prolonged amount of time coupled with the low survivability of a bursty specc, which was at that point in time the only thing warrior was worth for, like power nec to this day and age.

Also while other classes got their shiny new celestial speccs with the last feature pack, necro didn’t change a thing. The same old boring builds that rely on bursting stuff, either with fear or power auto attack nuckage, while other classes options opened up lead to disappointement with the class.

So in total necro is not in a bad spot. Condi is strong so the class is viable in pvp, i’d say, but it is boring and one dimensional and not really changing and evolving like other classes.

silentnight warrior.2714:

IMO Warrior got hit the worst.

The adrenaline loss on miss was a good change to balancing risk vs reward.
The adrenaline loss in out of combat was a huge nerf that affect all warrior builds, not just one or two, and warriors cannot start any fight with burst skills without sloting one utility or a heal to gain adrenaline and in both cases they are wasting the utility on the skill to do that.
Right after the patch i needed to change my gameplay with warrior.
With thiefs and necros i still do the same. I didn´t notice the nerfs the way i notice with warrior.

I agree that warriors got hit the hardest in the recent patches. not only because of the nerfs but because Anet did a kitten job and didn’t update traits and skill that still operate under the old adrenalin model.

All the changes would have been fine if they would have reworked our adrenaline traits and skills like Healing Surge, Signet of Fury, and Zerker Stance. As it is now, the trait ’Thrill of the kill" is utterly useless. Grants adrenaline on kill which you will lose instantly the second you foe dies and your are out of combat.

Healing Surge, SoF, and Zerker Stance use to have the ability to load up your adrenaline before the fight to get an early burst at the expense of a skill CD. The recents changes has greatly reduce the usefulness of said skills. With the adrenaline loss on miss the odds of healing surge ever getting a chance to activate a full heal has been greatly reduced increasing the gap between it and HS which further increases our dependency on HS. Also, the build that was least affected by the recent change is the stupid hambow which happens to be the build that has been the most QQ’d about.

The recent changes to warrior’s adrenaline are an amazing buff for thieves when they are fighting warriors.

Meglobob.8620:

Warrior.

There main class skill, Adrenaline got completely butchered, so its completely unusable. It goes down so fast now Warriors can’t use there F1 class skill on any weapon, which removes all those skills from the game completely.

Its like Necro losing there Death Shroud or thieves having no iniative or Rangers having no pets or Ele’s having no attunements…

No contest Warrior’s Adrenaline.

you have to try now! yay!
now i’ll actually be able to tell a good warrior from the random pleb pressing buttons

shimmerless.4560:

Booms.2594:

no one knows how to play necro including you. nos’ condi build is still OP in 1v1’s and decent in team fights.

warrs probably got hit the hardest next to thief. shatter mesmer was also hit with the stealth nerf to mirror blade.

I’m inclined to agree with this to be honest… for whatever reason there’s very few people who realize how incredibly powerful a properly played (or properly abused) Necro is. It’s been that way since launch, well before Dhuumfire and the like.

2 statements with no reasoning or logical argument to back them up. What you did is the same as saying, “you don’t see <insert build here> in pvp because no one knows how to play them.” You didn’t state the strengths and weaknesses of the class and compare them. While I don’t think the class got nerfed that much this patch it is really depressing for necro players to still be asking for the same exact buffs 2+ years into the game when other classes have gotten at least some of the buffs they’ve asked for. That is why the necro community is viewing this patch very negatively, mesmers, rangers, engis, and eles all got buffs to unused utilities and traits, while necros build diversity got lowered due to the well of blood, flesh golem, and lich form nerf.

Necros didn’t get hit by this patch, I have no idea why people act like that. None of the nerfs we got actually mattered to PvP, and while the buffs were extremely minor, they helped a tiny bit. But overall, Necromancers stayed the same, while some of the most dominant builds that threatened us were hit hard. That’s not all that bad.

Bhawb.7408:

Necros didn’t get hit by this patch, I have no idea why people act like that. None of the nerfs we got actually mattered to PvP, and while the buffs were extremely minor, they helped a tiny bit. But overall, Necromancers stayed the same, while some of the most dominant builds that threatened us were hit hard. That’s not all that bad.

Necros didn’t get hit hard, but the hits they got (except for lich nerf, gosh was that needed) were just silly. Our well of blood was nerfed to raise our sustain? Also not everyone plays PvP. You can’t just balance for that. WvW and PvE are a thing.

in one way, rangers got hit pretty hard PvE wise, with the loss of frost spirit. It now gives 70% chance to grant 10% more damage every 10 seconds. Which is like 0.7-1% increase in overall DPS for party, rather then 10% as before.

So while ranger got a great new trait that boosts its damage, it also lost its second most significant party buff.

Who’s been hit the hardest? I think it’s pretty even. Every classe had it’s share of buff and nerf.

Which community had been hit the hardest? Necro community. Mostly because of the troll buff to SoV. But in all honesty necro gain a lot of qol with this patch.
Don’t misunderstand me, Necro still need :
- ways to actually negate one hit ko (more dodge or real invul or whatever that ain’t the poor overestimated Death shroud)
- something else then an half cleaving weapon (caping dagger auto at 2 target instead of 3 was really really cheap, dev shouldn’t overestimate vampirics traits)
- Necro are still stuck with dark field and poison field tied to potentialy good dps skill… sadly these field have almost no place in this game because of really poor effect and absolutly no synergy with necro few combo. This could be ok if these field weren’t killing useful field like water field, fire field or air field…

For warriors… I’ve been playing a bit and my adrenaline build so fast, I don’t even mind the “nerf” on it.

lorndarken.3702:

this thread is entirely based on pvp / wvw metrics , pve talking points need not apply for debate .

In this context of this thread, yes PvP/WvW are all that matter. Not that it matters, because we are no more or less awful in PvE, and the nerfs we got (lich/CB/golem/WoB) were all fairly non-impact in WvW too. We are, at worst, in the same spot we were pre-patch, and at best, we’re slightly better because of changes to others.

zapv.8051:

shimmerless.4560:

Booms.2594:

no one knows how to play necro including you. nos’ condi build is still OP in 1v1’s and decent in team fights.

warrs probably got hit the hardest next to thief. shatter mesmer was also hit with the stealth nerf to mirror blade.

I’m inclined to agree with this to be honest… for whatever reason there’s very few people who realize how incredibly powerful a properly played (or properly abused) Necro is. It’s been that way since launch, well before Dhuumfire and the like.

2 statements with no reasoning or logical argument to back them up. What you did is the same as saying, “you don’t see <insert build here> in pvp because no one knows how to play them.” You didn’t state the strengths and weaknesses of the class and compare them. While I don’t think the class got nerfed that much this patch it is really depressing for necro players to still be asking for the same exact buffs 2+ years into the game when other classes have gotten at least some of the buffs they’ve asked for. That is why the necro community is viewing this patch very negatively, mesmers, rangers, engis, and eles all got buffs to unused utilities and traits, while necros build diversity got lowered due to the well of blood, flesh golem, and lich form nerf.

Fearlocking is incredibly strong, death shroud is strong, condition transfers and boon (namely stability) corruptions are super strong, not to mention Necro damage is through the roof. There’s nothing you can really nerf on Necro and have it matter because the kit is just fundamentally abusive in the right hands. I don’t know why players don’t see it but it’s the case, I can personally say I’m sure glad they don’t though.

I wouldnt say that necros got hit the hardest. Only the wob nerf was really a big hit (and maybe the lich duration reduction). Most “meta” necro builds didnt change much. And please note that i, unlike the op, dont see the lack of changes as a hit, else i may would argue that necros are a contender for the spot.

But as it stands it, i would probably go with thieves or warriors.

Thief got hit the hardest by far. Went from the second best class in the game to the worst class in the game.

Elementalist “have no elites”
Warrior class mechanic was butchered
Necro minions/wellofblood ruined
Thief S/D is borked because of blocks

Honestly I think warriors are in a pretty bad spot with adrenaline now. A simple reset kills their adrenaline and a lot of their adrenaline dependant traits were rendered ineffective.

Necromancer received an overall minor buff. WoP is not that big an issue to me. The trade between Flesh Rammer and the war horn and dagger buffs seems fair, especially when considering other professions received the same nerf as FG. Same is true for Lich.

When considering the adjustments to other jobs, Necromancer is probably better than before. Maybe not by much, but certainly not worse.

The focus of the patch seemed to be to tone down some of the extreme dps builds. I actually hope it works and takes some of the insta-kill out of the game in favor of more involved play.

shimmerless.4560:

snippity snip

Again, you didn’t actually make an argument here, or at least not a good one. All you did was state aspects of the class and then say the class is op. You didn’t state any weaknesses of the class or the fact that the things you listed have counters. Despite this I’ll break your “argument” down.

Fearlocking implies a necro can keep you permanently feared which isn’t even remotely true with the huge cooldowns on reaper’s protection and the rune proc. Furthermore, bringing one stun break , or stability of any kind is usually enough to completely counter this because both will proc at the same time. Reaper’s mark has a very visible animation, and can be easily dodged. This leaves doom which will often hit, but will give at most 3 ticks of damage on a good day. In other words nothing about the fears that can’t be easily countered. All good builds will have at least one stun break which should be all you need.

“Death Shroud is strong” that isn’t an argument, it is just a baseless claim. I could also say signet of undeath is a good skill it doesn’t make it true. Condition transfers are a very strong part of the class and it makes it very difficult to counter with other condition classes, but deathly swarm can be dodged or even starfed and putrid mark only transfers 3 conditions. Boon corruption is also pretty strong on necros, but it certainly can’t match the output of boon application by a long shot. Dark path also travels really slow, and corrupt boon requires a lot of timing and patience to hit effectively so you can corrupt stability.

Now I’ve shown how fear procs can be countered, and that 2 other parts of the common 0/6/4/0/4 build are strong but not overly so. Let’s talk about what necros give up for that to balance out this argument. First they give up any kind of invulnerability blocks and have to rely on sigil of energy for extra dodges (lowering damage output). Second, they give up any real sustain that other classes have (one 5.5-8k heal and some regen doesn’t make for good sustain). Third they give up a lot of DS generation because Scepter/Dagger has terrible DS regen and staff requires a soul marks which you don’t have because your running master of terror. Fourth, despite the two stun breaks they still become by far the easiest class to focus because flesh wurm requires set up before hand (which can be countered by killing the wurm), and spectral armor/walk don’t actually move you away from the people dealing damage to you. Fifth they give up any kind of group support that doesn’t rely on conditions making them less helpful to the rest of the party as opposed to other classes that can deal damage and support the other people on their team.

Hopefully, you can see that while this specific build has strengths it can be very countered by good players in multiple ways and it gives up a lot to even get the strengths it has.

Back on topic, I think warriors and thieves did get nerfed this patch more than the other classes, but I don’t believe any of the nerfs were unjustified. Warriors will still play the same roles in every game type, they will just be slightly less good at literally everything which is completely fair. The only thing that isn’t right about the thief nerfs is that steal interrupts attacks now. Otherwise the patch was completely fair to them.

Q: what class got hit the worst ?
A: Loyal customers of ArenaNet.

Ele for it’s elites. I don’t know what elite to use in PvP anymore.
FGS is useless, tornado is useless, Glyph of elemental is broken.

Xillllix.3485:

Ele for it’s elites. I don’t know what elite to use in PvP anymore.
FGS is useless, tornado is useless, Glyph of elemental is broken.

Psh, eles can still wreak havoc even without an elite skill. Like a boss.

I think warriors and thieves got hit equally bad and both the worst, because they’re the ones complaining the most. Even though their nerfs are not build changing or game breaking or anything, I’m sure that’s how Arenanet sees it.

Shout out to necromancers though. To those who haven’t left them for other professions.

If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball. > If you can win as a necromancer, you can win as any other profession.

Zapv, that is an excellent summary of the state the necromancer currently is in. It also outlines all the problems I face whenever I head into WvW. Now I’m no experienced WvW player in the slightest, but I do notice how everything just rolls over necromancers, because we lack any block, evade or invulnerability. And even if you do hit DeathShroud, it is obliterated in a second if you are targeted by multiple enemies (which will happen a lot in WvW), plus you don’t have stability, so you’re not getting away. Meanwhile I see all other classes just pop their stability and their invulnerability, and quickly flee inside the safety of a nearby keep. And this feels so cheap. Why are these skills so unevenly spread among the classes? Why are the downstates so different in effectiveness too? Why are some classes DOA (like the necro), and others simply teleport away, or even revive themselves while they are downed? I just don’t understand how this can be called balanced.

There are utilities that instantly fill your adrenaline and have a low CD. Use them?

Kako.1930:

Xillllix.3485:

Ele for it’s elites. I don’t know what elite to use in PvP anymore.
FGS is useless, tornado is useless, Glyph of elemental is broken.

Psh, eles can still wreak havoc even without an elite skill. Like a boss.

I think warriors and thieves got hit equally bad and both the worst, because they’re the ones complaining the most. Even though their nerfs are not build changing or game breaking or anything, I’m sure that’s how Arenanet sees it.

Shout out to necromancers though. To those who haven’t left them for other professions.

If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball. > If you can win as a necromancer, you can win as any other profession.

Warrior nerfs aren’t game breaking? Guess how many different traits and skills were rendered near to completely useless by the changes.

I’ll give you a hint. It’s more than 5. All of which were some of our most used traits. All because anet’s short sighted change to adrenaline. Warriors have 1 trait that gives them adrenaline on kill. But wait…don’t warriors now lose adrenaline instantly after leaving combat you might ask? Yes. Yes they do.

Fine change adrenaline. But make sure things that depend on it will actually be useful after it’s been changed.

Xillllix.3485:

Ele for it’s elites. I don’t know what elite to use in PvP anymore.
FGS is useless, tornado is useless, Glyph of elemental is broken.

I wouldnt say FGS is useless. The mobility it gives is amazing. As necro i would take it over any necro elite. Not that the necro elites are bad (actually they are really good) but mobility is so good in this game.

I’d have to go with Thief on this one. (Note that my own opinion is heavily oriented from the WvW viewpoint.) As to why?

• As is, the class has been relegated to mainly roaming for months. (Which is at least a role, but WvW’s not just a solo activity.)
• Multiple nerfs over the months to SB, a major way for Thieves to contribute in group combat.
• Crap range on both ranged sets, even with the recent “buff” to Ricochet Trait.
• Traps are, by and large, crud. (Go figure, another possible means of group contribution, out the window.)

At this point, it can be fairly argued that even Mesmers (the other “dueling” class) are better set up for any large-scale fight than Thieves are. But, YMMV. /shrug

Ynot.8397:

Bhawb.7408:

Necros didn’t get hit by this patch, I have no idea why people act like that. None of the nerfs we got actually mattered to PvP, and while the buffs were extremely minor, they helped a tiny bit. But overall, Necromancers stayed the same, while some of the most dominant builds that threatened us were hit hard. That’s not all that bad.

Necros didn’t get hit hard, but the hits they got (except for lich nerf, gosh was that needed) were just silly. Our well of blood was nerfed to raise our sustain? Also not everyone plays PvP. You can’t just balance for that. WvW and PvE are a thing.

Lich duration nerf wasnt needed, power upscale from transforms was however across the board thing.

Dadnir.5038:

Who’s been hit the hardest? I think it’s pretty even. Every classe had it’s share of buff and nerf.

No way. Thief didn’t receive any buffs that matter. Cleave is ok, but that is about it.

The big winners are rangers, meditation guards, and turret engis

Muchacho.2390:

Xillllix.3485:

Ele for it’s elites. I don’t know what elite to use in PvP anymore.
FGS is useless, tornado is useless, Glyph of elemental is broken.

I wouldnt say FGS is useless. The mobility it gives is amazing. As necro i would take it over any necro elite. Not that the necro elites are bad (actually they are really good) but mobility is so good in this game.

When you summon a sword you do not want mobility, you want damage.
Anyway that mobility is useless for PvP but yeah in WvW it can help perhaps when you have to run from one side of the map to another. The point here is that the new glyph of elemental is broken.

Xillllix.3485:

Muchacho.2390:

Xillllix.3485:

Ele for it’s elites. I don’t know what elite to use in PvP anymore.
FGS is useless, tornado is useless, Glyph of elemental is broken.

I wouldnt say FGS is useless. The mobility it gives is amazing. As necro i would take it over any necro elite. Not that the necro elites are bad (actually they are really good) but mobility is so good in this game.

When you summon a sword you do not want mobility, you want damage.
Anyway that mobility is useless for PvP but yeah in WvW it can help perhaps when you have to run from one side of the map to another. The point here is that the new glyph of elemental is broken.

No, mobility is also good in spvp. In spvp it may not as important as in WvW due the capture point game mode but mobility still helps you alot with outrotationg you opponent and creating favorable encounters.