Guild Wars 2

Cynz.9437:

Anubis.7058:

Hp doesnt mean jack kitten if you can just never get hit or reset on demand (which is allowed by mobility or stealth thus every other profession has options for it).

Every profession has heals.

No, they would actually still need to get buffed even if they got evade moves, thief has stealth, immunity to chill and cripple and a average 3 combat ports/ blinks pre 10 seconds. Not that im suggesting it since it would go against the initial and sale based promotion of necromancers as the “facetank and steal back the hp” class.

Warriors – block, mobility, vigor, evade moves (your argument is invalid in terms of stats).

Condis get cleansed, hard cc can only be stun broken or stability stopped, not a argument. But it does bring up lacking stability for a non evasion profession (in contrast to mesmers or thieves which have more than enough evades and blocks on under 10s cooldowns to be functionally only skill capped in terms of cc mitigation.

Elites were never mentioned in the post, they are above average (not best, but no bad one except for some bugs, but stuff like plague bugging and not applying its type if stripped and then launched till you get hit again or lich auto attack not being remembered are as said bugs and minor). Tho in all fairness, new guard tomes, all engie elites and all mesmer elites are far stronger on average use (compare/contrast, being immune to 5 people too stupid to get out of 600 range and plain chopping off 80% HP from 5 people on 1400 range while ccing them with mortar, which is by far the weakest engie elite).

P.S. Its not skill which is keeping you alive in WvWvW, its the GWE part of GWEN.

- stealth doesn’t make you invincible, evades usually come at relative high costs and given to classes that otherwise would die in 1-2 hits (necro isn#t one of them)
- HP actually does mean something, it affects amount of healing you get and how many hits you can take… 1 good backstab with fire/air procs would instagib a thief or ele, but would bring necro to 50-30% HP
- necro has life steal, not every profession has it to that extend
- thieves don’t have immunity to chills and cripple, that is plain lie and disinformation… cripple and chills actually screw thieves by a lot starting with crippled gap closers and inablity to get out of aoe
- why would necros get buffed? thief that is buildt around evades doesn’t really have much acess to stealth besides refuge and maybe cnd which they almost never use due to initiative consumtion
- 3 combat ports and blinks pre 10 sec? what build are we talking about here
- warriors have evades? that’s new…. if you mean endure pain, that doesn’t actually stop dmg, at least not condi… also warrior built for moblity has little survival actually or does 0 dmg
- condis also get applied more frequently and at much cheaper costs than condi cleanses… not sure what you are trying to say about CC…

lorndarken.3702:

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

classes are not balanced around 1v1…

Please man , don’t say necro has lifesteal . It’s so …. hmm .. I mean … Link me one vampire necro build viable in the meta right now ( please no MM <3 ) Pls do ; -; . I swear i’ll use it !

Cynz.9437:

Anubis.7058:

Hp doesnt mean jack kitten if you can just never get hit or reset on demand (which is allowed by mobility or stealth thus every other profession has options for it).

Every profession has heals.

No, they would actually still need to get buffed even if they got evade moves, thief has stealth, immunity to chill and cripple and a average 3 combat ports/ blinks pre 10 seconds. Not that im suggesting it since it would go against the initial and sale based promotion of necromancers as the “facetank and steal back the hp” class.

Warriors – block, mobility, vigor, evade moves (your argument is invalid in terms of stats).

Condis get cleansed, hard cc can only be stun broken or stability stopped, not a argument. But it does bring up lacking stability for a non evasion profession (in contrast to mesmers or thieves which have more than enough evades and blocks on under 10s cooldowns to be functionally only skill capped in terms of cc mitigation.

Elites were never mentioned in the post, they are above average (not best, but no bad one except for some bugs, but stuff like plague bugging and not applying its type if stripped and then launched till you get hit again or lich auto attack not being remembered are as said bugs and minor). Tho in all fairness, new guard tomes, all engie elites and all mesmer elites are far stronger on average use (compare/contrast, being immune to 5 people too stupid to get out of 600 range and plain chopping off 80% HP from 5 people on 1400 range while ccing them with mortar, which is by far the weakest engie elite).

P.S. Its not skill which is keeping you alive in WvWvW, its the GWE part of GWEN.

- stealth doesn’t make you invincible, evades usually come at relative high costs and given to classes that otherwise would die in 1-2 hits (necro isn#t one of them)
- HP actually does mean something, it affects amount of healing you get and how many hits you can take… 1 good backstab with fire/air procs would instagib a thief or ele, but would bring necro to 50-30% HP
- necro has life steal, not every profession has it to that extend
- thieves don’t have immunity to chills and cripple, that is plain lie and disinformation… cripple and chills actually screw thieves by a lot starting with crippled gap closers and inablity to get out of aoe
- why would necros get buffed? thief that is buildt around evades doesn’t really have much acess to stealth besides refuge and maybe cnd which they almost never use due to initiative consumtion
- 3 combat ports and blinks pre 10 sec? what build are we talking about here
- warriors have evades? that’s new…. if you mean endure pain, that doesn’t actually stop dmg, at least not condi… also warrior built for moblity has little survival actually or does 0 dmg
- condis also get applied more frequently and at much cheaper costs than condi cleanses… not sure what you are trying to say about CC…

lorndarken.3702:

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

classes are not balanced around 1v1…

Man….
How long have you been playing..
Some of this stuff points to not long at all..

-Evades actually dont come at a high cost. Weapons for both ranger and thief have plenty of evades and you can spec into either a condition build or for thieves a really annoying but fairly dangerous ( great sustain with fire and air sigils) spec that gives you enough vitality to basically shrug of hits.

-HAHAHAHAHAH life steal huh.
Please tell me how great that 100hp healing is. May as well say regen is comparable to healing signet. LOL

-Thieves actually have plenty of ways to get ride of cripple and chill..
Sometimes its as easy as going into stealth.
OR shadow stepping.
Or using sword mainhand.
or healing
or just evading the application ( which they can do fairly easily)

-Do you even play a thief?
What thief wont use CnD?
Do you know how valuable a daze every 3 seconds is?’

-You apparently have never touched a warrior. Warrior can be one of the most mobile classes and still have plenty of damage in WvW. No survivability?
That was the funniest thing i have ever seen on the forums ( it isn’t but I said it for dramatic effect).

- yes………..unless your a thief.
Stealth applications happen much more frequently than condi applications.

for all of you people who seem to be thinking necros are just fine they way they are , do yourself a favor for arguments sake please i beg of you before commenting on this topic

make a necro , it does not matter what race it is , your choice , go to pvp , and when you do game browse servers that are 1 vs 1 okay . and ask for a duel with someone with your necro . do this and have about 3 to 7 duels at least . and then come back with your response . okay . i guarantee you that you will not have the same opinion anymore about necros once after you have done this .

other wise please explain why you choose your class you play mostly over necro in the first place and please explain why you prefer that play style compared to necro .

My biggest problem with necros is that life siphons and deathshroud both which i would consider core necro mechanics dont work well together…

So plz Anet give bloodmagic necros some needed love…

lorndarken.3702:

for all of you people who seem to be thinking necros are just fine they way they are , do yourself a favor for arguments sake please i beg of you before commenting on this topic

make a necro , it does not matter what race it is , your choice , go to pvp , and when you do game browse servers that are 1 vs 1 okay . and ask for a duel with someone with your necro . do this and have about 3 to 7 duels at least . and then come back with your response . okay . i guarantee you that you will not have the same opinion anymore about necros once after you have done this .

other wise please explain why you choose your class you play mostly over necro in the first place and please explain why you prefer that play style compared to necro .

1v1 in pvp is a poor way to judge if a class needs a change. I’m not against changing things, but that shouldn’t be the main criteria without many changes to all the classes.

Aberrant.6749:

lorndarken.3702:

for all of you people who seem to be thinking necros are just fine they way they are , do yourself a favor for arguments sake please i beg of you before commenting on this topic

make a necro , it does not matter what race it is , your choice , go to pvp , and when you do game browse servers that are 1 vs 1 okay . and ask for a duel with someone with your necro . do this and have about 3 to 7 duels at least . and then come back with your response . okay . i guarantee you that you will not have the same opinion anymore about necros once after you have done this .

other wise please explain why you choose your class you play mostly over necro in the first place and please explain why you prefer that play style compared to necro .

1v1 in pvp is a poor way to judge if a class needs a change. I’m not against changing things, but that shouldn’t be the main criteria without many changes to all the classes.

Agreed. It needs to be 5v5’s, really. Necro is strongest in 1v1 scenarios due to how Death Shroud works.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Aberrant.6749:

lorndarken.3702:

for all of you people who seem to be thinking necros are just fine they way they are , do yourself a favor for arguments sake please i beg of you before commenting on this topic

make a necro , it does not matter what race it is , your choice , go to pvp , and when you do game browse servers that are 1 vs 1 okay . and ask for a duel with someone with your necro . do this and have about 3 to 7 duels at least . and then come back with your response . okay . i guarantee you that you will not have the same opinion anymore about necros once after you have done this .

other wise please explain why you choose your class you play mostly over necro in the first place and please explain why you prefer that play style compared to necro .

1v1 in pvp is a poor way to judge if a class needs a change. I’m not against changing things, but that shouldn’t be the main criteria without many changes to all the classes.

Agreed. It needs to be 5v5’s, really. Necro is strongest in 1v1 scenarios due to how Death Shroud works.

where is your proof ? oh that’s right you have none !

lorndarken.3702:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Aberrant.6749:

lorndarken.3702:

for all of you people who seem to be thinking necros are just fine they way they are , do yourself a favor for arguments sake please i beg of you before commenting on this topic

make a necro , it does not matter what race it is , your choice , go to pvp , and when you do game browse servers that are 1 vs 1 okay . and ask for a duel with someone with your necro . do this and have about 3 to 7 duels at least . and then come back with your response . okay . i guarantee you that you will not have the same opinion anymore about necros once after you have done this .

other wise please explain why you choose your class you play mostly over necro in the first place and please explain why you prefer that play style compared to necro .

1v1 in pvp is a poor way to judge if a class needs a change. I’m not against changing things, but that shouldn’t be the main criteria without many changes to all the classes.

Agreed. It needs to be 5v5’s, really. Necro is strongest in 1v1 scenarios due to how Death Shroud works.

where is your proof ? oh that’s right you have none !

Simple logic. Death Shroud does not scale at all with how many people are fighting you, which means as a defensive/sustain mechanic, it’s strongest in a 1v1 scenario and gets weaker with more opponents. Recall that there are only two methods for generating life force that get more effective with more opponents (Locust Swarm and Life Transfer). Since Death Shroud absorbs a finite amount of damage, the more foes attacking the necro means the faster it depletes.

On top of that, a necro’s most effective control and boon stripping abilities are single target, which are arguably its strongest skills. Yes, a necro does have a good amount of AoE, but what people are actually scared of are the single-target bombs like Corrupt Boon or Dark Pact (which may not be scary on its own, but a 3 second immobilize usually spells death).

Primarily, though, the reason why 1v1 is a terrible way to judge necro strength is the defense side. The typical Nightmare runes Terror build that people like to run is also strongest in 1v1 due to the rune proc also being single target in addition to everything else I mentioned.

Lol at this slanted, already determined, and clearly biased OP.

We’ll be seeing Necros on most top NA teams in the upcoming qualifiers.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

lorndarken.3702:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Aberrant.6749:

lorndarken.3702:

for all of you people who seem to be thinking necros are just fine they way they are , do yourself a favor for arguments sake please i beg of you before commenting on this topic

make a necro , it does not matter what race it is , your choice , go to pvp , and when you do game browse servers that are 1 vs 1 okay . and ask for a duel with someone with your necro . do this and have about 3 to 7 duels at least . and then come back with your response . okay . i guarantee you that you will not have the same opinion anymore about necros once after you have done this .

other wise please explain why you choose your class you play mostly over necro in the first place and please explain why you prefer that play style compared to necro .

1v1 in pvp is a poor way to judge if a class needs a change. I’m not against changing things, but that shouldn’t be the main criteria without many changes to all the classes.

Agreed. It needs to be 5v5’s, really. Necro is strongest in 1v1 scenarios due to how Death Shroud works.

where is your proof ? oh that’s right you have none !

Simple logic. Death Shroud does not scale at all with how many people are fighting you, which means as a defensive/sustain mechanic, it’s strongest in a 1v1 scenario and gets weaker with more opponents. Recall that there are only two methods for generating life force that get more effective with more opponents (Locust Swarm and Life Transfer). Since Death Shroud absorbs a finite amount of damage, the more foes attacking the necro means the faster it depletes.

On top of that, a necro’s most effective control and boon stripping abilities are single target, which are arguably its strongest skills. Yes, a necro does have a good amount of AoE, but what people are actually scared of are the single-target bombs like Corrupt Boon or Dark Pact (which may not be scary on its own, but a 3 second immobilize usually spells death).

Primarily, though, the reason why 1v1 is a terrible way to judge necro strength is the defense side. The typical Nightmare runes Terror build that people like to run is also strongest in 1v1 due to the rune proc also being single target in addition to everything else I mentioned.

you are bringing up one build out of how many different builds a necro could go with with , there are builds that use rockdog , builds that use undead for toughness for example, and everyone knows that in pvp in a 1 vs 1 fight a necro that when they jump into the pvp zone itself they all start off with zero life force , 1 vs 1 is a perfect way to measure how player skill / builds play a part of how large of a gap necros fit in terms of their own given abilities , taking a necro into a group setting you can never get a good grasp of how much the necro is lacking based on their own personal style of play . and i will mention another example , necro vs ele , necro is condi build vs a ele going diamond skin . you know what will happen in that duel , the necro will get crushed every time. in a group setting where a necro is condi and ele is going diamond skin , someone else on the team will do more damage where as the necro would be left clueless as to how it played a part in the defeat of that ele.

in wvw necros are great for their wells and that is about it . no one is asking them to bring spectral wall or minions or their death shroud because it serves no purpose ! but the moment you take that wellomancer into a 1 vs 1 fight they get destroyed !

This game has so many hard counters. Dia skin is great vs a full on cond, but fails vs everything else. Necro’s roflstomp eng but have issues with other classes. That’s why 1v1 is a poor way to judge a class. a team mate can deal damage to the ele and break the dia skin which would allow you to drop conds on him, etc.

WvW talk in a balance discussion = what is this?

At the same time though, if you balance death shroud for survival when focused in a 5v5, it’s going to be op for the 2v2’s etc that happen all the time in PvP. I really sympathize with the dev’s trying to get the balance of this right.

lorndarken.3702:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

lorndarken.3702:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Aberrant.6749:

lorndarken.3702:

for all of you people who seem to be thinking necros are just fine they way they are , do yourself a favor for arguments sake please i beg of you before commenting on this topic

make a necro , it does not matter what race it is , your choice , go to pvp , and when you do game browse servers that are 1 vs 1 okay . and ask for a duel with someone with your necro . do this and have about 3 to 7 duels at least . and then come back with your response . okay . i guarantee you that you will not have the same opinion anymore about necros once after you have done this .

other wise please explain why you choose your class you play mostly over necro in the first place and please explain why you prefer that play style compared to necro .

1v1 in pvp is a poor way to judge if a class needs a change. I’m not against changing things, but that shouldn’t be the main criteria without many changes to all the classes.

Agreed. It needs to be 5v5’s, really. Necro is strongest in 1v1 scenarios due to how Death Shroud works.

where is your proof ? oh that’s right you have none !

Simple logic. Death Shroud does not scale at all with how many people are fighting you, which means as a defensive/sustain mechanic, it’s strongest in a 1v1 scenario and gets weaker with more opponents. Recall that there are only two methods for generating life force that get more effective with more opponents (Locust Swarm and Life Transfer). Since Death Shroud absorbs a finite amount of damage, the more foes attacking the necro means the faster it depletes.

On top of that, a necro’s most effective control and boon stripping abilities are single target, which are arguably its strongest skills. Yes, a necro does have a good amount of AoE, but what people are actually scared of are the single-target bombs like Corrupt Boon or Dark Pact (which may not be scary on its own, but a 3 second immobilize usually spells death).

Primarily, though, the reason why 1v1 is a terrible way to judge necro strength is the defense side. The typical Nightmare runes Terror build that people like to run is also strongest in 1v1 due to the rune proc also being single target in addition to everything else I mentioned.

you are bringing up one build out of how many different builds a necro could go with with , there are builds that use rockdog , builds that use undead for toughness for example, and everyone knows that in pvp in a 1 vs 1 fight a necro that when they jump into the pvp zone itself they all start off with zero life force , 1 vs 1 is a perfect way to measure how player skill / builds play a part of how large of a gap necros fit in terms of their own given abilities , taking a necro into a group setting you can never get a good grasp of how much the necro is lacking based on their own personal style of play . and i will mention another example , necro vs ele , necro is condi build vs a ele going diamond skin . you know what will happen in that duel , the necro will get crushed every time. in a group setting where a necro is condi and ele is going diamond skin , someone else on the team will do more damage where as the necro would be left clueless as to how it played a part in the defeat of that ele.

in wvw necros are great for their wells and that is about it . no one is asking them to bring spectral wall or minions or their death shroud because it serves no purpose ! but the moment you take that wellomancer into a 1 vs 1 fight they get destroyed !

I mentioned only 1 build specifically, and that was only mentioning the runes themselves. Everything else I said applies to literally every necro build out there because it revolves around the class mechanic and skills that can show up on multiple builds.

Death Shroud for non-MM builds effectively starts at 20% due to summoning and swapping Bone Fiend and Shadow Fiend. Even if you don’t do that, life force still builds some in combat and regardless depletes faster if you have more opponents.

And strangely, well-o-mancer is a pretty strong 1v1 spec as well, especially in PvP. Once they land some control on you (immobilize, fear, flesh golem charge), you are on a very short clock to respond before you’re dead. The burst on that build is nuts (so far as necro builds go).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

And strangely, well-o-mancer is a pretty strong 1v1 spec as well, especially in PvP. Once they land some control on you (immobilize, fear, flesh golem charge), you are on a very short clock to respond before you’re dead. The burst on that build is nuts (so far as necro builds go).

I agree. My personal experience is that necro is not bad in 1v1 in general. Personally, it seems to me that lorndarken’s problems are more L2P issues then anything. When you start challenging poster to go to PvP and find duels, how do you feel that is going to put a negative light on the profession? Simply because you do poorly in duels does not suggest the professions community as a whole does. lorndarken, you don’r even seem to add much to the conversation that I can see. You are spending all of your time attacking and berating others for not hating the profession as badly as you do. Does that not seem odd to you?

Anubis.7058:

Cynz.9437:

also highest HP among all classes (besides warriors)

i don’t see why walk and wurm can’t be considered a port, i use those all the time in matches, yes it is precast but so are some other blinks

necro has heals and once again i still consider it a second HP bar combined with very high HP pull blocks would be overkills…. also don’t forget multiple forms of fear which can also work as defense

same thing with evades, evades are there for classes that otherwise don’t have high CC, high surivival stats etc. otherwise

lack of reflect maybe arguable but i feel like anet wants to keep those limited to few classes, come to worse you can always run MM necro and just let your pets body block everything

once again why would necro with high survival stats need to rely on dodges? if necros were allowed to have high uptime on dodges and evades they would have to have base HP of a theif or guard which is twice lower than what necro has btw… and would have to say good bye to DS

some classes rely on devades/stealth for survival, some classes rely on blocks, in necro case it is high initial stats that allow them to take quite beating before they even get low, combined with DS…
the lack of moblity is covered by constant cripple, chill, immob and fear application
the lack of actual straight heals is covered by life steal, once again DS and multiple ways of condi removal

i play necro (in fact it was second character i lvd up) and i agree lack of moblity can be annoying sometimes (especially if you played thief before) but on the other hand i can fight on points in pvp, have good controll over enemy thanks to condis and bring a lot of utility for zerg in wvw…. i am rather puzzled that someone would complain about necro survival when i can surf through enemy zerg along with guards and warriors w/o any problems

once again, classes like engis and celestial/might stacking hybrids need to see a nerf, necros are fine (besides nightmare rune abuse)

as far as elites go, i find plague is really usefull in wvw, lich form or flesh golem are actually quite awesome in pvp…. i feel like necros have maybe not the best elite choice (once again, engis i look at you) but they are actually pretty good imo and necros actually have choices!!! unlike some other classes that are forced into 1 elite because everything else sucks

Hp doesnt mean jack kitten if you can just never get hit or reset on demand (which is allowed by mobility or stealth thus every other profession has options for it).

Every profession has heals.

No, they would actually still need to get buffed even if they got evade moves, thief has stealth, immunity to chill and cripple and a average 3 combat ports/ blinks pre 10 seconds. Not that im suggesting it since it would go against the initial and sale based promotion of necromancers as the “facetank and steal back the hp” class.

Warriors – block, mobility, vigor, evade moves (your argument is invalid in terms of stats).

Condis get cleansed, hard cc can only be stun broken or stability stopped, not a argument. But it does bring up lacking stability for a non evasion profession (in contrast to mesmers or thieves which have more than enough evades and blocks on under 10s cooldowns to be functionally only skill capped in terms of cc mitigation.

Elites were never mentioned in the post, they are above average (not best, but no bad one except for some bugs, but stuff like plague bugging and not applying its type if stripped and then launched till you get hit again or lich auto attack not being remembered are as said bugs and minor). Tho in all fairness, new guard tomes, all engie elites and all mesmer elites are far stronger on average use (compare/contrast, being immune to 5 people too stupid to get out of 600 range and plain chopping off 80% HP from 5 people on 1400 range while ccing them with mortar, which is by far the weakest engie elite).

P.S. Its not skill which is keeping you alive in WvWvW, its the GWE part of GWEN.

WOW, I never thought I’d see the day when someone truly believed that mortar was a good (“stronger than average”) elite, as a first note you do realize there are no skills on the mortar that even scale with power. Second it has a minimum distance so you cant drop the attacks directly next to yourself when using it. Third the projectile speed is horrendously slow taking over a second to reach the target even at minimum range. Fourth I’m fairly sure launch concussion barrage has never taken 80% of anyone’s health ever, unless its some kind of naked up leveled character…and most important in a thread talking about the lack of mobility, you cannot move when using the mortar, and you cannot attack the area directly around yourself, in short an elite made completely useless just by walking up to it, not to mention all the leaps and blinks that have been talked about in this thread.

Solori.6025:

Man….
How long have you been playing..
Some of this stuff points to not long at all..

-Evades actually dont come at a high cost. Weapons for both ranger and thief have plenty of evades and you can spec into either a condition build or for thieves a really annoying but fairly dangerous ( great sustain with fire and air sigils) spec that gives you enough vitality to basically shrug of hits.

-HAHAHAHAHAH life steal huh.
Please tell me how great that 100hp healing is. May as well say regen is comparable to healing signet. LOL

-Thieves actually have plenty of ways to get ride of cripple and chill..
Sometimes its as easy as going into stealth.
OR shadow stepping.
Or using sword mainhand.
or healing
or just evading the application ( which they can do fairly easily)

-Do you even play a thief?
What thief wont use CnD?
Do you know how valuable a daze every 3 seconds is?’

-You apparently have never touched a warrior. Warrior can be one of the most mobile classes and still have plenty of damage in WvW. No survivability?
That was the funniest thing i have ever seen on the forums ( it isn’t but I said it for dramatic effect).

- yes………..unless your a thief.
Stealth applications happen much more frequently than condi applications.

You comment is actually funny considering that thief, necro and warrior are my main classes i use for pvp/wvw.

- evades comes at costs that you either have to sacrifice trickery tree or crit tree which will force you to rely on FS -> LS (which got nerfed last patch)
- condi thieves may be somehow cheesy in wvw but that is, nobody would play one on any decent level of pvp as they lack spike dmg and their condi dmg is laughable compraed to what necro or engi can bring to team
- no matter how tanky thief will build the best he can do is run away, thieves will never no matter what build be able to facetank due to low HP and lack of blocks/protection/aegis

- life steal can be decent depending on build, nobody said you have to 100% rely on it
- if thief gets rid of condi via stealthm then they traited SA meaning they sacrificed dmg
- shs is long CD, most chills and cripples are on very short CD; any smart thief will safe shs for emergency like stuns or to help ally
- if you mean inf. return, it comes at quite some costs and casting time, during which you could be still stunned feared etc.
- withdraw has relative long CD
- evade doesn’t come as easy that you claim, thieves would have specifically build for it while sacrificing something else and would have to time evades

- yes i main thief actually
- s/d thief won’t use cnd as often due to FS-LS costs as well as Inf strike, weapon spells don’t come for free, they actually cost initiative… besides cnd can be easily blocked, blinded, just be out of range, interrupted etc.
- daze every 3 sec? elaborate plz

- warrior was 3rd class i leveled up for my wvw guild actually
- yes warriors can be most mobile class (horizontally) if they build for it… those warrior indeed have less survival than let’s say their rather bunkerish brothers in pvp

- that is just plain lie, condis are often applied via aoe or even AA (see IP, necro scepter, mesmer scepter etc.)… stealth doesn’t come out of nowhere… you either have to blow long CD or have to use weapon spells be it cnd or bp+ hs… all of them have animation times not to mentionion revealed debuff…. besides condi gets cleansed via stealth only if you run SA and it doesn’t remove all condis right away

i obviously have 0 idea about pvp and wvw~

I do not know how other Necromancers play but my own style is to be completely suicidal. There is no way for a Necro to break and heal. Death Shroud is a transform with limited vulnerability with limited interaction and no heal, not a second life bar. When I play, I am all in until my opponent is dead, escapes to reset the fight, or I am dead. Necro’s just do not have that middle option. Damage avoidance and combat mobility skills are very limited. One good hit on me means I am finished because the vaunted sustain is imaginary. I have not found a way to make up for a deficit in health. The extra few thousand in vitality is more than eaten up by spike damage so it really is insignificant compared to the limited DS transform. Poor heal scaling means Necro’s get one free hit due to vitality. After it is used, Necro is like any other profession but with low mobility or damage avoidance.

Also, Lich may seem invulnerable but I have been forced out of it a lot when actively attacked and now it is significantly weaker.

@Cynz: Yes, lifesteal can be decent if you’re a thief. All of a necro’s lifesteal traits combined are outdone by food. Yes, food.

Also, Withdraw being a lengthy cooldown? Please, it’s the second shortest cooldown Heal in the entire game! Beaten only by traited Signet of Malice.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

@Cynz: Yes, lifesteal can be decent if you’re a thief. All of a necro’s lifesteal traits combined are outdone by food. Yes, food.

Yepp, you know a traitline is bad if it is outdone by food…

Muchacho.2390:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

@Cynz: Yes, lifesteal can be decent if you’re a thief. All of a necro’s lifesteal traits combined are outdone by food. Yes, food.

Yepp, you know a traitline is bad if it is outdone by food…

bloodlust use to be decent being at 30 % if i remember , but they nerfed it and allowed healing factor to now play a role . but in the end it was a huge nerf to what it use to proc for builds that did not run high healing specs .

lorndarken.3702:

Muchacho.2390:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

@Cynz: Yes, lifesteal can be decent if you’re a thief. All of a necro’s lifesteal traits combined are outdone by food. Yes, food.

Yepp, you know a traitline is bad if it is outdone by food…

bloodlust use to be decent being at 30 % if i remember , but they nerfed it and allowed healing factor to now play a role . but in the end it was a huge nerf to what it use to proc for builds that did not run high healing specs .

I think you mean bloodthirst and it was 50%. And i am also sure they upped the base numbers, so i think it was a rather neutral change but i dont have the calculations in my head so maybe i am wrong…

lorndarken.3702:

Muchacho.2390:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

@Cynz: Yes, lifesteal can be decent if you’re a thief. All of a necro’s lifesteal traits combined are outdone by food. Yes, food.

Yepp, you know a traitline is bad if it is outdone by food…

bloodlust use to be decent being at 30 % if i remember , but they nerfed it and allowed healing factor to now play a role . but in the end it was a huge nerf to what it use to proc for builds that did not run high healing specs .

It used to be 50%, then they “buffed” siphons by giving them a .4% healing power ratio (maxxing out Healing Power gives you 6 extra health per hit) to all of the siphon traits but Vampiric Master (which later on got a 1.7% healing power ratio) and nerfed Bloodthirst to 20% while playing with base values so the total result was the same. This also, however, nerfed Signet of the Locust and Dagger 2, as they get boosted by Bloodthirst, but their values were unchanged. The only people that came out ahead were those that ran siphon traits, but did not run Bloodthirst (basically nobody). Everyone else that siphoned either stayed the same (no mainhand dagger or Signet of the Locust, but did run Bloodthirst) or were nerfed.

I think necro’s aren’t bad but aren’t good either. In my opinion, the major problem of a necro is the game mode; we lack skills that are viable in a 1v1 on-point fight. Barrage, ele’s and engi’s in general and particularly warriors zerk stance can be devastating in such fights for condi necro’s. More roaming is probably required then, spectral walk is a must imo.

Anchoku.8142:

I do not know how other Necromancers play but my own style is to be completely suicidal.

^This
But only in soloq.

The best part of this thread is where he claims his experience is from 1v1 duels – which is where Necro is actually strongest

The issues arise when you encounter a 5v5 situation and you’re getting focus fired

I also liked when he said nightmare runes are only available in PvP – Lets me know you are actually a new player who has no clue

lorndarken.3702:

Muchacho.2390:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

@Cynz: Yes, lifesteal can be decent if you’re a thief. All of a necro’s lifesteal traits combined are outdone by food. Yes, food.

Yepp, you know a traitline is bad if it is outdone by food…

bloodlust use to be decent being at 30 % if i remember , but they nerfed it and allowed healing factor to now play a role . but in the end it was a huge nerf to what it use to proc for builds that did not run high healing specs .

Bloodlust was bad before the nerf. Look at the grandmaster trait skills. You have a choice between MM, well-bomber, or DS builds. Siphons do not do much for a DS build, Transfusion or Dagger Mastery support MM best, and, if I run that deeply to trait wells, then I take Ritual of Life because being that conservative means people are getting downed. There is just no way I can justify Bloodlust. I would rather take Mark of Evasion for casual party support though it is not that much better.

Narkodx.1472:

The best part of this thread is where he claims his experience is from 1v1 duels – which is where Necro is actually strongest

lol this

instead of contributing all i see is false statements about me done by taking cheap shots , so i guess that just proves my argument when people have to resort to such tactics as if they had an opinion to begin with . that is kinda sad .

Bartosz.2013:

Necro need buff on pve for sure, many ppl dont want to play with necros in team

I’m sure the most hated class in PvE is ranger, mostly because those baddies that can’t control their pets.

I have to agree. Some quick counter points to common arguments I’m seeing.

• Fear can be used defensively. It can, but only against a single target. In multiple sources of damage or damage from different sources fear won’t help or save you like block or evade on use skill.

• Necro has second health bar. It kinda does, let’s not confuse life force with health. Health is health and life force is life source.

• Survival skills are not massive health. Fractals overwhelming proves this. Mai trin at lvl 25 has 2 attacks that can instantly down you. One can be blocked, but not dodged. The other can dodged, but not blocked. Necro has no blocks..even with full lifeforce Mai will remove that and 90% of hp bar if it is full. If your not full on both..you’re smoked. This highlights again that high health or life force is not a survival free pass.

• Necro has high cripple, immobilise etc to make up for their lack of leap finishers and in combat mobility. They do, this is true. The immobilise has a 1 second cast gesture, so it is fair game to evade it. However with mobile strikes and other professions rough equivalents soft CC isn’t as powerful a tool as what ppl are suggesting. We all know this, so this is a very fragile point built very high on unstable ground.

The necro is arguably one of the better designed professions for hybrid make ups,..but the lack of burst means they can put up a good fight, but rarely will they win it. That is why you only see terrormancers and berserker’s life blast builds. Their diversity is extremely narrow and they are the most under developed profession.

In the CDI about who needed help the most, ele, ranger, necro were the elected professions. Ele got good buffs. Ranger got some formidable changes to how fast they can deal damage with longbow; greatsword, pet and signet buffs..necro got, um..more survival skills that were basically just small touches to passively entering deathshroud and some dagger adjustments for their melee builds that have no blocks, evades, reflects, stability, mobility. The update was underwhelming for necro and their profession development didn’t move forward in any meaningful way.

necro needed some of the a fore mentioned skills and some serious adjustment to corruption skills and how they work and how regularly they can be used and to what effect. This is why it is still terrormancers or life blast berserkers..the landscape didn’t change for them.

I really want to love my necro, but I just can’t.

Other classes have better attrition builds…. Condi thieves drive me insane (unless I’m playing mine)

…and it seems to me that mesmers have very similar utility skills to the ones necros always brag about, but mesmers never bother to use them, because they have other skills that are better.

2 years into the game and I still don’t know what good deathshroud is for a condi necro…. I used to use it to jump off walls… now I only bother with it when plague is on cooldown.

…and just looking at the current state of dumbfire hurts my heart. …so much wasted potential.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

@Cynz: Yes, lifesteal can be decent if you’re a thief. All of a necro’s lifesteal traits combined are outdone by food. Yes, food.

Also, Withdraw being a lengthy cooldown? Please, it’s the second shortest cooldown Heal in the entire game! Beaten only by traited Signet of Malice.

food can’t be used in pvp
if we really going bring food in, should we talk about veggie pizzas maybe? yeah, no?

withdraw still has longer CD than a lot of weapon sets that usually apply cripple (not to mention those cripple effects are applied by persistent aoe in few cases)

Cynz.9437:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

@Cynz: Yes, lifesteal can be decent if you’re a thief. All of a necro’s lifesteal traits combined are outdone by food. Yes, food.

Also, Withdraw being a lengthy cooldown? Please, it’s the second shortest cooldown Heal in the entire game! Beaten only by traited Signet of Malice.

food can’t be used in pvp
if we really going bring food in, should we talk about veggie pizzas maybe? yeah, no?

withdraw still has longer CD than a lot of weapon sets that usually apply cripple (not to mention those cripple effects are applied by persistent aoe in few cases)

condition cleanse , diamond skin , hmmmm what was that again ? oh yeah check mate

Cynz.9437:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

@Cynz: Yes, lifesteal can be decent if you’re a thief. All of a necro’s lifesteal traits combined are outdone by food. Yes, food.

Also, Withdraw being a lengthy cooldown? Please, it’s the second shortest cooldown Heal in the entire game! Beaten only by traited Signet of Malice.

food can’t be used in pvp
if we really going bring food in, should we talk about veggie pizzas maybe? yeah, no?

withdraw still has longer CD than a lot of weapon sets that usually apply cripple (not to mention those cripple effects are applied by persistent aoe in few cases)

Bring in veggie pizza all you like, as it’s rather irrelevant to the topic at hand. Veggie Pizza alone can’t entirely replace a build while any lifesteal food outdoes an entire necro siphon build.

Dang food and Orrian trash out siphon Necro!

I`m still puzzled at how easily some classes are able to cleanse conditions. I`m regularly slapping 4 plus conditions on people and seeing the entire lot wiped off every ten seconds or so.

I`m thinking we need one of those conditions that they had in warcraft, where, if it gets cleansed, it explodes and deals damage.

chronometria.3708:

I`m thinking we need one of those conditions that they had in warcraft, where, if it gets cleansed, it explodes and deals damage.

ib4 anti-Hex crowd rally to the cause.

chronometria.3708:

I`m still puzzled at how easily some classes are able to cleanse conditions. I`m regularly slapping 4 plus conditions on people and seeing the entire lot wiped off every ten seconds or so.

I`m thinking we need one of those conditions that they had in warcraft, where, if it gets cleansed, it explodes and deals damage.

no , there is no need for a new ability , and there are a couple of classes that cleanse their conditions when traited that remove conditions on a character , guardians rangers , and in some cases ele with diamonskin , and then you have sigil of purity which cleanse conditions and sigil of generaousity which also cleans conditions , mesmers can transfer conditions with skill slots , guardians can transform them into buffs or cleanse them with skill slots ,

the problem is that there is to much condition clearing in the game as it stands , hell even necro has ways to cleanse conditions with consume conditions putrid mark , deathly swarm , trait for death shroud or that worthless trait that transfers the condition to minions . but necros have skills that give them conditions aka self harm,

can you name me another class in the game that can do self harm ???

lorndarken.3702:

chronometria.3708:

I`m still puzzled at how easily some classes are able to cleanse conditions. I`m regularly slapping 4 plus conditions on people and seeing the entire lot wiped off every ten seconds or so.

I`m thinking we need one of those conditions that they had in warcraft, where, if it gets cleansed, it explodes and deals damage.

no , there is no need for a new ability , and there are a couple of classes that cleanse their conditions when traited that remove conditions on a character , guardians rangers , and in some cases ele with diamonskin , and then you have sigil of purity which cleanse conditions and sigil of generaousity which also cleans conditions , mesmers can transfer conditions with skill slots , guardians can transform them into buffs or cleanse them with skill slots ,

the problem is that there is to much condition clearing in the game as it stands , hell even necro has ways to cleanse conditions with consume conditions putrid mark , deathly swarm , trait for death shroud or that worthless trait that transfers the condition to minions . but necros have skills that give them conditions aka self harm,

can you name me another class in the game that can do self harm ???

You seriously have no clue how a necro works do you…
Perhaps you should just reroll another toon.

Neptune.2570:

lorndarken.3702:

chronometria.3708:

I`m still puzzled at how easily some classes are able to cleanse conditions. I`m regularly slapping 4 plus conditions on people and seeing the entire lot wiped off every ten seconds or so.

I`m thinking we need one of those conditions that they had in warcraft, where, if it gets cleansed, it explodes and deals damage.

no , there is no need for a new ability , and there are a couple of classes that cleanse their conditions when traited that remove conditions on a character , guardians rangers , and in some cases ele with diamonskin , and then you have sigil of purity which cleanse conditions and sigil of generaousity which also cleans conditions , mesmers can transfer conditions with skill slots , guardians can transform them into buffs or cleanse them with skill slots ,

the problem is that there is to much condition clearing in the game as it stands , hell even necro has ways to cleanse conditions with consume conditions putrid mark , deathly swarm , trait for death shroud or that worthless trait that transfers the condition to minions . but necros have skills that give them conditions aka self harm,

can you name me another class in the game that can do self harm ???

You seriously have no clue how a necro works do you…
Perhaps you should just reroll another toon.

instead of making a false statement about me how about you explain your opinion on why you think i don’t know how necro works . i could say the same thing to you but im not going to because i don’t like to throw out accusations about other players that have a different opinion than that of mine . by doing that it is not constructive and just makes your opinion look as an attack .

perhaps you should explain yourself .

lorndarken.3702:

Neptune.2570:

lorndarken.3702:

chronometria.3708:

I`m still puzzled at how easily some classes are able to cleanse conditions. I`m regularly slapping 4 plus conditions on people and seeing the entire lot wiped off every ten seconds or so.

I`m thinking we need one of those conditions that they had in warcraft, where, if it gets cleansed, it explodes and deals damage.

no , there is no need for a new ability , and there are a couple of classes that cleanse their conditions when traited that remove conditions on a character , guardians rangers , and in some cases ele with diamonskin , and then you have sigil of purity which cleanse conditions and sigil of generaousity which also cleans conditions , mesmers can transfer conditions with skill slots , guardians can transform them into buffs or cleanse them with skill slots ,

the problem is that there is to much condition clearing in the game as it stands , hell even necro has ways to cleanse conditions with consume conditions putrid mark , deathly swarm , trait for death shroud or that worthless trait that transfers the condition to minions . but necros have skills that give them conditions aka self harm,

can you name me another class in the game that can do self harm ???

You seriously have no clue how a necro works do you…
Perhaps you should just reroll another toon.

instead of making a false statement about me how about you explain your opinion on why you think i don’t know how necro works . i could say the same thing to you but im not going to because i don’t like to throw out accusations about other players that have a different opinion than that of mine . by doing that it is not constructive and just makes your opinion look as an attack .

perhaps you should explain yourself .

Really? You already made exactly the same assumption on about me, for the same reason on the first page lol….
Your meant to use self inflicted conditions to your advantage. Necromancers have crazy amount of condi transfer. Your supposed to use your self inflicted conditions as your condi burst.
Are you seriously complaining that some classes have condi removal? (Some Meta builds have literally none, and plenty have under 4 condi per 45 second cleanses). Just added info; Diamond Skin isn’t a condi cleanse, nor does any pvp ele run it.
The current Meta necro build is godly in 1v1. The only way to beat it is to commit multiple players to the necro. If you still think Necro needs absolutely everything buffed watch the upcoming ToG finals and watch how many teams have rerolled players to necro recently.

Neptune.2570:

lorndarken.3702:

Neptune.2570:

lorndarken.3702:

chronometria.3708:

I`m still puzzled at how easily some classes are able to cleanse conditions. I`m regularly slapping 4 plus conditions on people and seeing the entire lot wiped off every ten seconds or so.

I`m thinking we need one of those conditions that they had in warcraft, where, if it gets cleansed, it explodes and deals damage.

no , there is no need for a new ability , and there are a couple of classes that cleanse their conditions when traited that remove conditions on a character , guardians rangers , and in some cases ele with diamonskin , and then you have sigil of purity which cleanse conditions and sigil of generaousity which also cleans conditions , mesmers can transfer conditions with skill slots , guardians can transform them into buffs or cleanse them with skill slots ,

the problem is that there is to much condition clearing in the game as it stands , hell even necro has ways to cleanse conditions with consume conditions putrid mark , deathly swarm , trait for death shroud or that worthless trait that transfers the condition to minions . but necros have skills that give them conditions aka self harm,

can you name me another class in the game that can do self harm ???

You seriously have no clue how a necro works do you…
Perhaps you should just reroll another toon.

instead of making a false statement about me how about you explain your opinion on why you think i don’t know how necro works . i could say the same thing to you but im not going to because i don’t like to throw out accusations about other players that have a different opinion than that of mine . by doing that it is not constructive and just makes your opinion look as an attack .

perhaps you should explain yourself .

Really? You already made exactly the same assumption on about me, for the same reason on the first page lol….
Your meant to use self inflicted conditions to your advantage. Necromancers have crazy amount of condi transfer. Your supposed to use your self inflicted conditions as your condi burst.
Are you seriously complaining that some classes have condi removal? (Some Meta builds have literally none, and plenty have under 4 condi per 45 second cleanses). Just added info; Diamond Skin isn’t a condi cleanse, nor does any pvp ele run it.
The current Meta necro build is godly in 1v1. The only way to beat it is to commit multiple players to the necro. If you still think Necro needs absolutely everything buffed watch the upcoming ToG finals and watch how many teams have rerolled players to necro recently.

multiple classes have tons of mobility and cc to hard counter anything a necro throws out . and mostly that is all that is needed to shut down anything a necro could run , necros at most have 2 to 3 stun breaks but they sacrifice so much other good skill slots just to counter that hard cc that smashs necros . that is majorly why they can’t sustain much pressure , given the fact that 9 out of 10 times necro attacks are out of range or getting evaded or reset because of the cc it self . have you ever played as a necro ? i get the feeling that you are only going by what you have seen by playing against them and can’t understand what it is like playing as one . and what happens in tourneys is what happens there , i cant understand why people would pick a necro other than it’s ranged aoe that necros do bring to the table , but when it comes to single target fights alone necros lack in that department for ranged combat alone . the reasons for self infliction on necros are meant for either transfer or consume conditions , but the statement still stands , there is no other class that does self harm to it self other than necro . and why necros get the brunt of that damage i will never understand becuase there is so many situations that can prevent even the necro to do transfers or even use their only heal . necros need help .

one last thing i forgot to mention necros have 2 ways to transfer conditions not that it matters because hard cc can and will shut that down . putrid mark , deathly swarm , as for transfer of boons into conditions only 2 , corrupt boon and dark path when traited . and that was nerfed , putrid mark was nerfed and no longer transfers conditions from allies to the target/s , but not that it matters because condition cleanse is so strong right now that by the time you apply a condition on someone chances are it wont last more that 3 to 7 seconds because it gets taken away so fast , which by fact limits the over all damage a necro would do .

lorndarken.3702:

one last thing i forgot to mention necros have 2 ways to transfer conditions not that it matters because hard cc can and will shut that down . putrid mark , deathly swarm , as for transfer of boons into conditions only 2 , corrupt boon and dark path when traited . and that was nerfed , putrid mark was nerfed and no longer transfers conditions from allies to the target/s

Transfer: Deathly Swarm, Putrid Mark, Plague Signet (all of which can potentially be full cleanses).
Corrupt boons: Corrupt Boon, Well of Corruption, Path of Corruption
Ally cleansing: Well of Power, Plague Signet, Unholy Martyr

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

lorndarken.3702:

one last thing i forgot to mention necros have 2 ways to transfer conditions not that it matters because hard cc can and will shut that down . putrid mark , deathly swarm , as for transfer of boons into conditions only 2 , corrupt boon and dark path when traited . and that was nerfed , putrid mark was nerfed and no longer transfers conditions from allies to the target/s

Transfer: Deathly Swarm, Putrid Mark, Plague Signet (all of which can potentially be full cleanses).
Corrupt boons: Corrupt Boon, Well of Corruption, Path of Corruption
Ally cleansing: Well of Power, Plague Signet, Unholy Martyr

well of corruption only truly works if you can root someone in that but by doing that you either need bone fiend to time that or dagger 3 which then takes away your choice for a legit weapon cause dagger main hand is garbage due to forcing necros into combat range as a caster class with necros being so squishy . and by legit weapon im talking about axe or scepter . and axe is garbage when you are a condi necro to begin with .

Necro also has DS and minions for condition removal if traited. A Necro build must almost avoid condition cleanses to have trouble with anything but hard CC, burning and maybe confusion where control effects and condi damage comes fast.

Basically, anyone saying necros ever have a problem with conditions has zero clue about the profession. Conditions have always been something necros have been very, very resiliant to. Now, helping allies with their conditions? That’s a different story. Ever since the Putrid Mark nerf, there hasn’t been much in the way of ally cleansing that’s any good.

Just had a fun idea; what if Plague Signet drew conditions from allies and converted them into LF instead of transferring them to the Necromancer? The active effect could grab 5 conditions available and transfer them to a target almost like normal.

Comments?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Basically, anyone saying necros ever have a problem with conditions has zero clue about the profession. Conditions have always been something necros have been very, very resiliant to. Now, helping allies with their conditions? That’s a different story. Ever since the Putrid Mark nerf, there hasn’t been much in the way of ally cleansing that’s any good.

the reason for why they wanted to nerf putrid mark was because blah blah blah blah the one good thing about necros have blah blah blah blah nerf nerf nerf . and so anet devs all got together and said what were we thinking ? we have to take away something necros used that made them important ! lets do it ! no reason

lorndarken.3702:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Basically, anyone saying necros ever have a problem with conditions has zero clue about the profession. Conditions have always been something necros have been very, very resiliant to. Now, helping allies with their conditions? That’s a different story. Ever since the Putrid Mark nerf, there hasn’t been much in the way of ally cleansing that’s any good.

the reason for why they wanted to nerf putrid mark was because blah blah blah blah the one good thing about necros have blah blah blah blah nerf nerf nerf . and so anet devs all got together and said what were we thinking ? we have to take away something necros used that made them important ! lets do it ! no reason

I suspect the real reason for the putrid mark nerf was because a 5-man total cleanse on a 25 second cooldown is overpowered, especially since it’s not just a cleanse.

Plus, there was the weird functionality of when you had three sides getting caught in the mark where it would transfer conditions from side B to side C and vice-versa. I would prefer the mark still had ally-cleansing ability, but the nerf was actually pretty well justified. The biggest problem with the nerf is that they never replaced the support it gave elsewhere.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

lorndarken.3702:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Basically, anyone saying necros ever have a problem with conditions has zero clue about the profession. Conditions have always been something necros have been very, very resiliant to. Now, helping allies with their conditions? That’s a different story. Ever since the Putrid Mark nerf, there hasn’t been much in the way of ally cleansing that’s any good.

the reason for why they wanted to nerf putrid mark was because blah blah blah blah the one good thing about necros have blah blah blah blah nerf nerf nerf . and so anet devs all got together and said what were we thinking ? we have to take away something necros used that made them important ! lets do it ! no reason

I suspect the real reason for the putrid mark nerf was because a 5-man total cleanse on a 25 second cooldown is overpowered, especially since it’s not just a cleanse.

Plus, there was the weird functionality of when you had three sides getting caught in the mark where it would transfer conditions from side B to side C and vice-versa. I would prefer the mark still had ally-cleansing ability, but the nerf was actually pretty well justified. The biggest problem with the nerf is that they never replaced the support it gave elsewhere.

Chance is its that they didnt know how to fix the second.
Since a 20 second cooldown cleanse for which 4/5 people need to melee their enemy is not something even remotely far off with what you can do. Everything from Shouts over Elixirs to plain using your profession mechanic (aka water attunement) has equal effects taken in the values of risk and reliability.

Anubis.7058:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

lorndarken.3702:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Basically, anyone saying necros ever have a problem with conditions has zero clue about the profession. Conditions have always been something necros have been very, very resiliant to. Now, helping allies with their conditions? That’s a different story. Ever since the Putrid Mark nerf, there hasn’t been much in the way of ally cleansing that’s any good.

the reason for why they wanted to nerf putrid mark was because blah blah blah blah the one good thing about necros have blah blah blah blah nerf nerf nerf . and so anet devs all got together and said what were we thinking ? we have to take away something necros used that made them important ! lets do it ! no reason

I suspect the real reason for the putrid mark nerf was because a 5-man total cleanse on a 25 second cooldown is overpowered, especially since it’s not just a cleanse.

Plus, there was the weird functionality of when you had three sides getting caught in the mark where it would transfer conditions from side B to side C and vice-versa. I would prefer the mark still had ally-cleansing ability, but the nerf was actually pretty well justified. The biggest problem with the nerf is that they never replaced the support it gave elsewhere.

Chance is its that they didnt know how to fix the second.
Since a 20 second cooldown cleanse for which 4/5 people need to melee their enemy is not something even remotely far off with what you can do. Everything from Shouts over Elixirs to plain using your profession mechanic (aka water attunement) has equal effects taken in the values of risk and reliability.

Everything you’re comparing it to is one or two conditions, though. Putrid Mark was a total cleanse for up to 5 allies standing in the mark as well as the necro himself. Up to 59 conditions removed (Torment didn’t exist and, at the time, Blind on the necro still stopped it) on a 20 second (traited) cooldown was entirely too much. Of course, the fact it was a transfer instead of an actual cleanse didn’t help matters either.

Yeah, I was really frustrated at the time, too, but it really was entirely too powerful of a skill before the nerf.