Guild Wars 2

condition clearing among classes that can buff themselves insanely and necro transfers of the buff into conditions are limited to give little to no support for necros at all .

run speeds on necro is limited and have zero leaps , as for break frees they do not work as intended

all classes have stability but necros stability is the worst in the game by far , not enough time to use a heal cause the cast time for it is a joke .

knockbacks , pulls , knockdowns , roots, snares and fear can be done much better than necro .

sustained pressure for necro is lacking big time when compared to other classes ,

the survive ability on necro is lack luster when death shroud having to be specced in takes away any momentum for other builds when speccing toward damage .

necro elites are garbage

ranged attacks are very very slow and can not sustain fast pressure ,

necros lack burst damage for over all builds ,

other classes are better at attrition than necro .

but my biggest problem with this game are all the people are going to disagree with me on any of these i have brought up and thus no true buffs will come to the necro as a class to then balance the class over all .

necros also have 2 HP bars and extremely high survival (compared to other classes)

i don’t think that necros are really in bad spot, every class has to have weakness or things like pre patch hambow and current engis happen… in fact i am glad to have a necro on team because it would give team condi pressure

what real issue is that in current meta necros are one of the classes that can’t abuse hybrid celestial might stacking builds hence why it feels like they lack something… nerf celestial, might stacking, NERF ENGIS !!!! – suddenly necros are really good, imo

Cynz.9437:

necros also have 2 HP bars and extremely high survival (compared to other classes)

Oh yes a HP bar which bleeds out in trade for: 0 leaps, 0 blinks/ports (and no, swalk and wurm are not mobility they are pre cast), 0 blocks, 0 evade attacks, 0 reflect, 0 projectile destruction, no on demand vigor or trait based endurance and 0 invul skills.

Your argument fails.

Anubis.7058:

Cynz.9437:

necros also have 2 HP bars and extremely high survival (compared to other classes)

Oh yes a HP bar which bleeds out in trade for: 0 leaps, 0 blinks/ports (and no, swalk and wurm are not mobility they are pre cast), 0 blocks, 0 evade attacks, 0 reflect, 0 projectile destruction, no on demand vigor or trait based endurance and 0 invul skills.

Your argument fails.

oh and we don’t get stealth either

lorndarken.3702:

condition clearing among classes that can buff themselves insanely and necro transfers of the buff into conditions are limited to give little to no support for necros at all .

Aoe condi cleanse, Boon strip/corruption, Necros have awesome support in small skirmishes. Not sure I fully understood your point here.

run speeds on necro is limited and have zero leaps , as for break frees they do not work as intended

A 25% increased movement speed signet and swiftness on warhorn. Zero leaps kinda sucks I guess.

all classes have stability but necros stability is the worst in the game by far , not enough time to use a heal cause the cast time for it is a joke .

The necro stab is pretty bad, but I’d take it over Mesmers 2 second stability utility skill. Also the cast time on consume conditions is about right, comparable cast time to ether feast, troll ungent and hide in shadows, but a far more powerful heal.

knockbacks , pulls , knockdowns , roots, snares and fear can be done much better than necro .

Ok your trolling me right? Staff 5, spectral wall, reapers protection proc, death shroud fear, corrupting stability and most necros use nightmare runes. Only two other classes have access to one single fear each.

I’ve read the rest of your points. They all suck. All 3 necro elites are amazing, necro has amazing attrition and sustained pressure.
I’m not saying necro is a wonderful perfect class that needs no work, it does need work.
But what you’re saying is you don’t like necro because it’s not the absolute best at absolutely everything.

I woudn’t say necros have high attrition. They have high resiliance to burst, but the way the class is currently set up, attrition battles usually go in favor of the opponent the longer they go on.

And necros do not have 2 HP bars. Life Force has only one similarity to health in that it gets reduced when you take damage. Everything else is different.
1. Life Force drains naturally when using it. Health does not.
2. Life Force is generated in % of maximum, health is not.
3. Health regenerates out of combat, life force does not.
4. Health can be replenished by allies, life force cannot
5. Health can be filled extremely rapidly (especially with allied support), life force cannot
6. You always have health. Not true with life force.
7. Health is vital to survival. Life force is not technically.

I could go on, but you should get the picture. Death Shroud is a damage sponge, not a 2nd health bar.

Neptune.2570:

lorndarken.3702:

condition clearing among classes that can buff themselves insanely and necro transfers of the buff into conditions are limited to give little to no support for necros at all .

Aoe condi cleanse, Boon strip/corruption, Necros have awesome support in small skirmishes. Not sure I fully understood your point here.

run speeds on necro is limited and have zero leaps , as for break frees they do not work as intended

A 25% increased movement speed signet and swiftness on warhorn. Zero leaps kinda sucks I guess.

all classes have stability but necros stability is the worst in the game by far , not enough time to use a heal cause the cast time for it is a joke .

The necro stab is pretty bad, but I’d take it over Mesmers 2 second stability utility skill. Also the cast time on consume conditions is about right, comparable cast time to ether feast, troll ungent and hide in shadows, but a far more powerful heal.

knockbacks , pulls , knockdowns , roots, snares and fear can be done much better than necro .

Ok your trolling me right? Staff 5, spectral wall, reapers protection proc, death shroud fear, corrupting stability and most necros use nightmare runes. Only two other classes have access to one single fear each.

I’ve read the rest of your points. They all suck. All 3 necro elites are amazing, necro has amazing attrition and sustained pressure.
I’m not saying necro is a wonderful perfect class that needs no work, it does need work.
But what you’re saying is you don’t like necro because it’s not the absolute best at absolutely everything.

you don’t even play the class , i can tell just from reading all of what you posted that you do not play it . most necros use nightmare ? that right there alone told me you know nothing about necros cause if you did know , you would know that superior rune of the nightmare can not be bought off the auction . nightmare can literally be only picked up via pvp . and in most cases necros use different runes for different builds not just nightmare .

but lets tackle the rest of your statement since you don’t play the class to know anything about it ,

Aoe condi cleanse, Boon strip/corruption, Necros have awesome support in small skirmishes. Not sure I fully understood your point here.

^ putrid mark which can only cleanse 3 conditions limit of 5 targets , well of corruption which only has a limit of 5 target have super long cooldowns to ever be useful which by the way you need your target to stand in for well , which they can be rooted to do so but is very very difficult and is more than likely not possible due to stability and break frees preventing that from happening , with putrid mark you have to be near your opponent for it to work much like mark of blood .

A 25% increased movement speed signet and swiftness on warhorn. Zero leaps kinda sucks I guess.

^ no necro runs signet of the locus , it is practically useless when in combat and when used offers zero to no heal , the only time it is ever in any good use is if you are standing in the middle of the enemy zerg in wvw and then are allowed to use it . and you even mention zero leaps kinda sucks .

The necro stab is pretty bad, but I’d take it over Mesmers 2 second stability utility skill. Also the cast time on consume conditions is about right, comparable cast time to ether feast, troll ungent and hide in shadows, but a far more powerful heal.

^ mesmers can do a little something called stealth which necros cant , and they get an amazing signet that heals them over time based around how many clones they have up and guess what eles a mesmer can do ? they can go into thus stealth and heal in it . wana guess what class can’t do that ? necromancers . and you even admit necros stab is pretty bad , consume condition is probably the only bright spot for necros , but when they have that slotted guess what ? they get no regeneration , no hot that is worth anything , the life siphon is really really bad on necros that it matter not .

Nightmare runes are salvaged from dungeon gear sold by npcs in Lions Arch for dungeon tokens. Also, that 2 sec stability Mesmer mantra is great as it is also a stun break and can be used up to 3 times before recharging.

lorndarken.3702:

^ putrid mark which can only cleanse 3 conditions limit of 5 targets

Not sure if you mean it with the comment, but Putrid Mark no longer cleanses allies since its massive nerfing.

Anubis.7058:

lorndarken.3702:

^ putrid mark which can only cleanse 3 conditions limit of 5 targets

Not sure if you mean it with the comment, but Putrid Mark no longer cleanses allies since its massive nerfing.

well there you go . i remember it use to be one of the best skills but it got major nerfed some patchs ago

lorndarken.3702:

necro elites are garbage

look at elementalist elite skills pls

Dahir.4158:

lorndarken.3702:

necro elites are garbage

look at elementalist elite skills pls

oh they are bad too , but no where near on the same level of bad as necros

lorndarken.3702:

Dahir.4158:

lorndarken.3702:

necro elites are garbage

look at elementalist elite skills pls

oh they are bad too , but no where near on the same level of bad as necros

I would trade all 3 ele elites for either flesh golem, or lich (not both, just 1). Plague is also very good but wouldn’t work on ele due to no viable condi builds.

ArthurDent.9538:

lorndarken.3702:

Dahir.4158:

lorndarken.3702:

necro elites are garbage

look at elementalist elite skills pls

oh they are bad too , but no where near on the same level of bad as necros

I would trade all 3 ele elites for either flesh golem, or lich (not both, just 1). Plague is also very good but wouldn’t work on ele due to no viable condi builds.

play a necro , you will see what im talking about , you will lay their dead wondering why your flesh golem jogged in place chasing butterflys not attacking your target . and you will see your hp drop super fast once you go lich form

glyph of elementals is better than flesh golem.

spoj.9672:

glyph of elementals is better than flesh golem.

Depends. If Fleshie is behaving, he’s way better than Glyph of Elementals. If he’s not, well, Charge is still useful.

I think it’s much closer between the two now that you have some control over the elemental

I think anet should make the GM Foot in the Grave a perma stability while in Death Shroud, now that we can interact. Something like 1s stab every 1s, so it can’t be fully converted or stole.

@ OP

The thing that makes a class balanced is that they have weaknesses. You’re saying that those weaknesses shouldn’t be there, therefore making the class OP.

There’s a reason you don’t have certain things like mobility. It’s because it would just overpower the class. There has to be strengths and weaknesses of a class.

Anubis.7058:

Cynz.9437:

necros also have 2 HP bars and extremely high survival (compared to other classes)

Oh yes a HP bar which bleeds out in trade for: 0 leaps, 0 blinks/ports (and no, swalk and wurm are not mobility they are pre cast), 0 blocks, 0 evade attacks, 0 reflect, 0 projectile destruction, no on demand vigor or trait based endurance and 0 invul skills.

Your argument fails.

also highest HP among all classes (besides warriors)

i don’t see why walk and wurm can’t be considered a port, i use those all the time in matches, yes it is precast but so are some other blinks

necro has heals and once again i still consider it a second HP bar combined with very high HP pull blocks would be overkills…. also don’t forget multiple forms of fear which can also work as defense

same thing with evades, evades are there for classes that otherwise don’t have high CC, high surivival stats etc. otherwise

lack of reflect maybe arguable but i feel like anet wants to keep those limited to few classes, come to worse you can always run MM necro and just let your pets body block everything

once again why would necro with high survival stats need to rely on dodges? if necros were allowed to have high uptime on dodges and evades they would have to have base HP of a theif or guard which is twice lower than what necro has btw… and would have to say good bye to DS

some classes rely on devades/stealth for survival, some classes rely on blocks, in necro case it is high initial stats that allow them to take quite beating before they even get low, combined with DS…
the lack of moblity is covered by constant cripple, chill, immob and fear application
the lack of actual straight heals is covered by life steal, once again DS and multiple ways of condi removal

i play necro (in fact it was second character i lvd up) and i agree lack of moblity can be annoying sometimes (especially if you played thief before) but on the other hand i can fight on points in pvp, have good controll over enemy thanks to condis and bring a lot of utility for zerg in wvw…. i am rather puzzled that someone would complain about necro survival when i can surf through enemy zerg along with guards and warriors w/o any problems

once again, classes like engis and celestial/might stacking hybrids need to see a nerf, necros are fine (besides nightmare rune abuse)

as far as elites go, i find plague is really usefull in wvw, lich form or flesh golem are actually quite awesome in pvp…. i feel like necros have maybe not the best elite choice (once again, engis i look at you) but they are actually pretty good imo and necros actually have choices!!! unlike some other classes that are forced into 1 elite because everything else sucks

Necro need buff on pve for sure, many ppl dont want to play with necros in team

Cynz.9437:

also highest HP among all classes (besides warriors)

i don’t see why walk and wurm can’t be considered a port, i use those all the time in matches, yes it is precast but so are some other blinks

necro has heals and once again i still consider it a second HP bar combined with very high HP pull blocks would be overkills…. also don’t forget multiple forms of fear which can also work as defense

same thing with evades, evades are there for classes that otherwise don’t have high CC, high surivival stats etc. otherwise

lack of reflect maybe arguable but i feel like anet wants to keep those limited to few classes, come to worse you can always run MM necro and just let your pets body block everything

once again why would necro with high survival stats need to rely on dodges? if necros were allowed to have high uptime on dodges and evades they would have to have base HP of a theif or guard which is twice lower than what necro has btw… and would have to say good bye to DS

some classes rely on devades/stealth for survival, some classes rely on blocks, in necro case it is high initial stats that allow them to take quite beating before they even get low, combined with DS…
the lack of moblity is covered by constant cripple, chill, immob and fear application
the lack of actual straight heals is covered by life steal, once again DS and multiple ways of condi removal

i play necro (in fact it was second character i lvd up) and i agree lack of moblity can be annoying sometimes (especially if you played thief before) but on the other hand i can fight on points in pvp, have good controll over enemy thanks to condis and bring a lot of utility for zerg in wvw…. i am rather puzzled that someone would complain about necro survival when i can surf through enemy zerg along with guards and warriors w/o any problems

once again, classes like engis and celestial/might stacking hybrids need to see a nerf, necros are fine (besides nightmare rune abuse)

as far as elites go, i find plague is really usefull in wvw, lich form or flesh golem are actually quite awesome in pvp…. i feel like necros have maybe not the best elite choice (once again, engis i look at you) but they are actually pretty good imo and necros actually have choices!!! unlike some other classes that are forced into 1 elite because everything else sucks

Hp doesnt mean jack kitten if you can just never get hit or reset on demand (which is allowed by mobility or stealth thus every other profession has options for it).

Every profession has heals.

No, they would actually still need to get buffed even if they got evade moves, thief has stealth, immunity to chill and cripple and a average 3 combat ports/ blinks pre 10 seconds. Not that im suggesting it since it would go against the initial and sale based promotion of necromancers as the “facetank and steal back the hp” class.

Warriors – block, mobility, vigor, evade moves (your argument is invalid in terms of stats).

Condis get cleansed, hard cc can only be stun broken or stability stopped, not a argument. But it does bring up lacking stability for a non evasion profession (in contrast to mesmers or thieves which have more than enough evades and blocks on under 10s cooldowns to be functionally only skill capped in terms of cc mitigation.

Elites were never mentioned in the post, they are above average (not best, but no bad one except for some bugs, but stuff like plague bugging and not applying its type if stripped and then launched till you get hit again or lich auto attack not being remembered are as said bugs and minor). Tho in all fairness, new guard tomes, all engie elites and all mesmer elites are far stronger on average use (compare/contrast, being immune to 5 people too stupid to get out of 600 range and plain chopping off 80% HP from 5 people on 1400 range while ccing them with mortar, which is by far the weakest engie elite).

P.S. Its not skill which is keeping you alive in WvWvW, its the GWE part of GWEN.

im just going to go ahead and call it , for all of those who disagree with me on my points , you do not play necro in pvp and wvw . there .

until you do play the class , please refrain from putting your opinion down on this topic because it just makes your statements look incredibly weak and lacking of depth .

lorndarken.3702:

im just going to go ahead and call it , for all of those who disagree with me on my points , you do not play necro in pvp and wvw . there .

until you do play the class , please refrain from putting your opinion down on this topic because it just makes your statements look incredibly weak and lacking of depth .

Watch Nos play necro. It’s incredibly strong. If you feel it’s weak, it’s probably because you haven’t seen it used effectively.

alchemyst.2165:

@ OP

The thing that makes a class balanced is that they have weaknesses. You’re saying that those weaknesses shouldn’t be there, therefore making the class OP.

There’s a reason you don’t have certain things like mobility. It’s because it would just overpower the class. There has to be strengths and weaknesses of a class.

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

Really, the issue with necros comes down to an inability to keep their actual health up. Every other profession has some method of playing it safe while they recuperate some health. This is not the case for Necros, as all of their non-6 sustain requires them to be actively fighting. Necros can’t “just heal themselves” outside of #6 because every other skill and trait that lets them regain health requires them to be hitting a foe (or getting hit in the case of Signet of Vampirism). This is even true for life force; every method to gain life force requires hitting or being hit by an opponent (aside from the painfully slow Signet of Undeath), so you can’t just back off to recuperate some.

This is probably fully intentional, since from a lore perspective, Necromancers are practitioners of Aggression magic. There is nothing inherently wrong with the idea either. However, it also means Necromancers are rather easily denied what little sustain they do have, and the values Necros currently have just aren’t enough when you take that into account. Also, because they cannot back off to get said sustain, it means Necros must not only build up, but must at least match incoming damage on each sustain skill or else they fall further behind.

This is still a tricky balance, though, because while you need necros to be able to stick in a fight for longer than their opponents, you don’t want to make them so strong that the “can’t back off to recuperate” becomes “has no need to back off.” Given the lack of avoidance mechanics, however, necros sustain, especially healing abilities (Consume Conditions is fine), need serious help.

you know people want to say its a learn to play issue , but 9 out of 10 times it is coming from people who don’t play the class and the ones that do are people who only use it for pve , not pvp 1 vs 1 fights , or other formats of the game , and as for pve , geee i wonder how many people around the clock are begging for necromancers to join them in dungeons ???? learn to play ? no , play a necro and then you will see

None of the things you complained about are why necros are lacking in pve…. condi applies to all classes, stab not really necessary in pve, knockbacks snares stuns etc not really useful in pve most of the time, not ranging very often in pve, necros are very capable of damage and even a noob could take a zerk necro through a dungeon. The things you complained about are issues in other gamemodes, but we are actually ok in tpvp, and great in wvw.

NeXeD.3042:

None of the things you complained about are why necros are lacking in pve…. condi applies to all classes, stab not really necessary in pve, knockbacks snares stuns etc not really useful in pve most of the time, not ranging very often in pve, necros are very capable of damage and even a noob could take a zerk necro through a dungeon. The things you complained about are issues in other gamemodes, but we are actually ok in tpvp, and great in wvw.

Yeah, but the issue is, while necro damage isn’t bad, you still don’t take a necro for damage because they aren’t even in the top 3. Factor in that they don’t have any useful support (boons are very few and far between, as are conditions and Defiant makes a mockery of debuffing and control) and that’s why necros are bottom tier PvE.

I agree we’re pretty good in WvW and all right (not really great) in PvP, though. PvE needs a redesign for necros to become wanted. Like a new dungeon infested with mordrem…

I was simply responding to the things he listed as our shortcomings which aren’t exactly true. I didn’t feel it was necessary to explain the real reasons necro isn’t desired in dungeons as I’m sure people have told him before….

Good point. I would hope most people have figured out why necros and PvE don’t mix so well.

lorndarken.3702:

alchemyst.2165:

@ OP

The thing that makes a class balanced is that they have weaknesses. You’re saying that those weaknesses shouldn’t be there, therefore making the class OP.

There’s a reason you don’t have certain things like mobility. It’s because it would just overpower the class. There has to be strengths and weaknesses of a class.

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

Actually I’ve done that before, I made a d/d necro and it’s so fun just to 3 shot people with Lich form and Death shroud.

And if I’m not doing that, I have good tankiness, damage even outside of Lich/DS, and leech. Heck, I even remember staying alive in a 1v2 or 1v3 in pvp with d/d at around 10-20% hp for around 1 or 2 minutes straight with no help from allies, and I even managed to kill one of them.

alchemyst.2165:

lorndarken.3702:

alchemyst.2165:

@ OP

The thing that makes a class balanced is that they have weaknesses. You’re saying that those weaknesses shouldn’t be there, therefore making the class OP.

There’s a reason you don’t have certain things like mobility. It’s because it would just overpower the class. There has to be strengths and weaknesses of a class.

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

Actually I’ve done that before, I made a d/d necro and it’s so fun just to 3 shot people with Lich form and Death shroud.

And if I’m not doing that, I have good tankiness, damage even outside of Lich/DS, and leech. Heck, I even remember staying alive in a 1v2 or 1v3 in pvp with d/d at around 10-20% hp for around 1 or 2 minutes straight with no help from allies, and I even managed to kill one of them.

Were they all wearing Clerics amulet or something? D/D necro won’t survive a 1v3 for even 45 seconds against decent players. That’s not to say you have no hope of downing one, but you certianly didn’t last that long against players that were halfway decent.

ArthurDent.9538:

lorndarken.3702:

Dahir.4158:

lorndarken.3702:

necro elites are garbage

look at elementalist elite skills pls

oh they are bad too , but no where near on the same level of bad as necros

I would trade all 3 ele elites for either flesh golem, or lich (not both, just 1). Plague is also very good but wouldn’t work on ele due to no viable condi builds.

Funny, i would trade all of the necromancer elite skills for fiery greatsword. The mobility it gives is just amazing and personally i value that higher then anything necro elites can give. But i guess if you have things like RtL, Lightingflash etc. you dont care about mobility much…

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

alchemyst.2165:

lorndarken.3702:

alchemyst.2165:

@ OP

The thing that makes a class balanced is that they have weaknesses. You’re saying that those weaknesses shouldn’t be there, therefore making the class OP.

There’s a reason you don’t have certain things like mobility. It’s because it would just overpower the class. There has to be strengths and weaknesses of a class.

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

Actually I’ve done that before, I made a d/d necro and it’s so fun just to 3 shot people with Lich form and Death shroud.

And if I’m not doing that, I have good tankiness, damage even outside of Lich/DS, and leech. Heck, I even remember staying alive in a 1v2 or 1v3 in pvp with d/d at around 10-20% hp for around 1 or 2 minutes straight with no help from allies, and I even managed to kill one of them.

Were they all wearing Clerics amulet or something? D/D necro won’t survive a 1v3 for even 45 seconds against decent players. That’s not to say you have no hope of downing one, but you certianly didn’t last that long against players that were halfway decent.

Nah, it was more like I was about to die but I used my #2 on dagger while staying just outside their range, waiting for death shroud to come up, stay in that as long as possible, then heal, rinse and repeat. I survived pretty long against them, I surprised myself. Also now that I recall I believe it was just a 1v2.

But don’t get me started on terrormancer…lol.

lorndarken.3702:

Neptune.2570:

lorndarken.3702:

condition clearing among classes that can buff themselves insanely and necro transfers of the buff into conditions are limited to give little to no support for necros at all .

Aoe condi cleanse, Boon strip/corruption, Necros have awesome support in small skirmishes. Not sure I fully understood your point here.

run speeds on necro is limited and have zero leaps , as for break frees they do not work as intended

A 25% increased movement speed signet and swiftness on warhorn. Zero leaps kinda sucks I guess.

all classes have stability but necros stability is the worst in the game by far , not enough time to use a heal cause the cast time for it is a joke .

The necro stab is pretty bad, but I’d take it over Mesmers 2 second stability utility skill. Also the cast time on consume conditions is about right, comparable cast time to ether feast, troll ungent and hide in shadows, but a far more powerful heal.

knockbacks , pulls , knockdowns , roots, snares and fear can be done much better than necro .

Ok your trolling me right? Staff 5, spectral wall, reapers protection proc, death shroud fear, corrupting stability and most necros use nightmare runes. Only two other classes have access to one single fear each.

I’ve read the rest of your points. They all suck. All 3 necro elites are amazing, necro has amazing attrition and sustained pressure.
I’m not saying necro is a wonderful perfect class that needs no work, it does need work.
But what you’re saying is you don’t like necro because it’s not the absolute best at absolutely everything.

you don’t even play the class , i can tell just from reading all of what you posted that you do not play it . most necros use nightmare ? that right there alone told me you know nothing about necros cause if you did know , you would know that superior rune of the nightmare can not be bought off the auction . nightmare can literally be only picked up via pvp . and in most cases necros use different runes for different builds not just nightmare .

but lets tackle the rest of your statement since you don’t play the class to know anything about it ,

Aoe condi cleanse, Boon strip/corruption, Necros have awesome support in small skirmishes. Not sure I fully understood your point here.

^ putrid mark which can only cleanse 3 conditions limit of 5 targets , well of corruption which only has a limit of 5 target have super long cooldowns to ever be useful which by the way you need your target to stand in for well , which they can be rooted to do so but is very very difficult and is more than likely not possible due to stability and break frees preventing that from happening , with putrid mark you have to be near your opponent for it to work much like mark of blood .

A 25% increased movement speed signet and swiftness on warhorn. Zero leaps kinda sucks I guess.

^ no necro runs signet of the locus , it is practically useless when in combat and when used offers zero to no heal , the only time it is ever in any good use is if you are standing in the middle of the enemy zerg in wvw and then are allowed to use it . and you even mention zero leaps kinda sucks .

The necro stab is pretty bad, but I’d take it over Mesmers 2 second stability utility skill. Also the cast time on consume conditions is about right, comparable cast time to ether feast, troll ungent and hide in shadows, but a far more powerful heal.

^ mesmers can do a little something called stealth which necros cant , and they get an amazing signet that heals them over time based around how many clones they have up and guess what eles a mesmer can do ? they can go into thus stealth and heal in it . wana guess what class can’t do that ? necromancers . and you even admit necros stab is pretty bad , consume condition is probably the only bright spot for necros , but when they have that slotted guess what ? they get no regeneration , no hot that is worth anything , the life siphon is really really bad on necros that it matter not .

Pretty much every condi necro in PvP runs nightmare runes, If you meant something aside from PvP, you should mention.
The signet is a big tradeoff, but basically the same tradeoff that every pro has to make (aside from war).
The signet heal on Mesmer is absolute garbage, and anybody running it in PvP is running a gimmick 1v1 build, but in saying that, what the hell does that have to do with foot in the grave?
Yes I admit the stab is bad…. Necros need a weakness…
No regeneration? staff 2 gives you regen on a 6 second cooldown…

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

alchemyst.2165:

lorndarken.3702:

alchemyst.2165:

@ OP

The thing that makes a class balanced is that they have weaknesses. You’re saying that those weaknesses shouldn’t be there, therefore making the class OP.

There’s a reason you don’t have certain things like mobility. It’s because it would just overpower the class. There has to be strengths and weaknesses of a class.

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

Actually I’ve done that before, I made a d/d necro and it’s so fun just to 3 shot people with Lich form and Death shroud.

And if I’m not doing that, I have good tankiness, damage even outside of Lich/DS, and leech. Heck, I even remember staying alive in a 1v2 or 1v3 in pvp with d/d at around 10-20% hp for around 1 or 2 minutes straight with no help from allies, and I even managed to kill one of them.

Were they all wearing Clerics amulet or something? D/D necro won’t survive a 1v3 for even 45 seconds against decent players. That’s not to say you have no hope of downing one, but you certianly didn’t last that long against players that were halfway decent.

I think it is a complete load to say you cannot survive in that situation with D/D. I love that weapon set on my necro. I find it exceptionally solid. I admit though, that I would love to see some type of 900 range gap closer on the off hand.

coglin.1867:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

alchemyst.2165:

lorndarken.3702:

alchemyst.2165:

@ OP

The thing that makes a class balanced is that they have weaknesses. You’re saying that those weaknesses shouldn’t be there, therefore making the class OP.

There’s a reason you don’t have certain things like mobility. It’s because it would just overpower the class. There has to be strengths and weaknesses of a class.

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

Actually I’ve done that before, I made a d/d necro and it’s so fun just to 3 shot people with Lich form and Death shroud.

And if I’m not doing that, I have good tankiness, damage even outside of Lich/DS, and leech. Heck, I even remember staying alive in a 1v2 or 1v3 in pvp with d/d at around 10-20% hp for around 1 or 2 minutes straight with no help from allies, and I even managed to kill one of them.

Were they all wearing Clerics amulet or something? D/D necro won’t survive a 1v3 for even 45 seconds against decent players. That’s not to say you have no hope of downing one, but you certianly didn’t last that long against players that were halfway decent.

I think it is a complete load to say you cannot survive in that situation with D/D. I love that weapon set on my necro. I find it exceptionally solid. I admit though, that I would love to see some type of 900 range gap closer on the off hand.

In a 1v3 in PvP? I highly doubt even Zombify could survive for more than a minute against decent (not even top tier) players in that situation.

D/D is a good set for survival, but it still has limits and realistically won’t hold up against 3 people beating on you for very long. 1v3 on any class any spec (other than evade-spam thief) is tough to survive for even 2 minutes, let alone 3.

Fair enough. 1v3 is a bit over the top. 1v2 is doable though. But you mentioned “skilled players,”, and to be fair, it generally won’t matter what profession or build you run, if you run into a player of similar skill on whatever profession and build they run, your in for a tough fight. Which is how it should be in my opinion.

Yes I admit the stab is bad…. Necros need a weakness…
No regeneration? staff 2 gives you regen on a 6 second cooldown…
[/quote]

so “second health bar” that does not even stop damage reaching your actual health bar, does not scale in team fights, takes away all forms of healing from you or your team mates, has 0 stun breakers, has 0 condi cleanse, is slow to build and uses predictable easy to avoid skills to do so is not a weakness already?

not to mention a necro has nothing to defend its self once that has been used up. fear has 3 counters, many of the skills have a cast/aftercast time making them easy to interrupt (mesmers -.-)or just dodge, our only teleports require pre casting and someone can just walk up and destroy it or have an obvious tell of where we will end up (s walk so pointless). for a caster necros skills are rather close up, 130 -600 range always within gap closing range from other classes.

but hey think what you want we all have our opinions…

Necro must be a pain to balance for the dev’s. If you balance deathshroud hp for larger fights, it’s going to be op in smaller fights.

I play 6 alts. One when you play 6 cross the board somethings become obvious.

Necro lacks;
1) No leap finishers
2) lack luster staff
3) very limited grand master stability.
4) virtually no usable blast finishers
5) no blocks or evade on use skills.
6) Boon corruption is weak. When you see an with ele 21 might-protection-fury-swiftness-vigor and you corrupt them and see it becomes 20 might-2 seconds vulnerability-2 weakness-4 seconds cripple and a sudden change to water tree and literally in under 7 seconds you see them with 21 might-protection-fury-swiftness-vigor again, That is when it is obvious boon corrupting is useless and it may as well just be boon removal.

All in all a hybrid necro should be fairly ferocious with how much they can bring, but their lack of burst means they have no follow up with what is some good skills, but no ‘necessities’ skills. Their builds just lack that essential ability to finish what other people start with you in pvp.

Yes I admit the stab is bad…. Necros need a weakness…
No regeneration? staff 2 gives you regen on a 6 second cooldown…

unlucky.9285:

so “second health bar” that does not even stop damage reaching your actual health bar, does not scale in team fights, takes away all forms of healing from you or your team mates, has 0 stun breakers, has 0 condi cleanse, is slow to build and uses predictable easy to avoid skills to do so is not a weakness already?

not to mention a necro has nothing to defend its self once that has been used up. fear has 3 counters, many of the skills have a cast/aftercast time making them easy to interrupt (mesmers -.-)or just dodge, our only teleports require pre casting and someone can just walk up and destroy it or have an obvious tell of where we will end up (s walk so pointless). for a caster necros skills are rather close up, 130 -600 range always within gap closing range from other classes.

but hey think what you want we all have our opinions…

What are you talking about? I never once likened death shroud to a second HP bar.

Neptune.2570:

Yes I admit the stab is bad…. Necros need a weakness…
No regeneration? staff 2 gives you regen on a 6 second cooldown…

unlucky.9285:

so “second health bar” that does not even stop damage reaching your actual health bar, does not scale in team fights, takes away all forms of healing from you or your team mates, has 0 stun breakers, has 0 condi cleanse, is slow to build and uses predictable easy to avoid skills to do so is not a weakness already?

not to mention a necro has nothing to defend its self once that has been used up. fear has 3 counters, many of the skills have a cast/aftercast time making them easy to interrupt (mesmers -.-)or just dodge, our only teleports require pre casting and someone can just walk up and destroy it or have an obvious tell of where we will end up (s walk so pointless). for a caster necros skills are rather close up, 130 -600 range always within gap closing range from other classes.

but hey think what you want we all have our opinions…

What are you talking about? I never once likened death shroud to a second HP bar.

not you but many many many other people do so I just got it out of the way

Shroud being a 2nd hp bar is a close enough analogy to where it doesn’t bother me and I understand what people mean when they say it. I doubt they mean it 100% literally.

All necro needs now is a real gapcloser, blink and/or reflect.
especially now we have professions that simply can run circles around us.

Aberrant.6749:

Shroud being a 2nd hp bar is a close enough analogy to where it doesn’t bother me and I understand what people mean when they say it. I doubt they mean it 100% literally.

I actually don’t like the analogy since it makes people imagine their own non-necro characters with their own damage migitations and then double the hit points. The statement does not show the inherrent weakness death shroud has like: no healing, no utilities, no elites, automatic degeneration, no regeneration out of combat, … and forget the sacrifices that are made in the necromancer design for said class mechanic no invulnerabilities, blocks, stealth,… .

Tim.6450:

Aberrant.6749:

Shroud being a 2nd hp bar is a close enough analogy to where it doesn’t bother me and I understand what people mean when they say it. I doubt they mean it 100% literally.

I actually don’t like the analogy since it makes people imagine their own non-necro characters with their own damage migitations and then double the hit points. The statement does not show the inherrent weakness death shroud has like: no healing, no utilities, no elites, automatic degeneration, no regeneration out of combat, … and forget the sacrifices that are made in the necromancer design for said class mechanic no invulnerabilities, blocks, stealth,… .

If people don’t understand the basics of a class they shouldn’t be posting about it at all… but I guess there are people that do that… and I mean you can generate life force while in death shroud so that’s kind of a heal but not really… Idk, I’m still ok with it as a sort of short hand unless the person obviously has no clue what in the world they are talking about.

From what I’ve been reading, I think everyone would agree that Necromancers need to have a weakness. I get that, I really do. I just don’t agree with the number of weakness that is exclusive to the Necromancers only.

Anubis.7058:

Hp doesnt mean jack kitten if you can just never get hit or reset on demand (which is allowed by mobility or stealth thus every other profession has options for it).

Every profession has heals.

No, they would actually still need to get buffed even if they got evade moves, thief has stealth, immunity to chill and cripple and a average 3 combat ports/ blinks pre 10 seconds. Not that im suggesting it since it would go against the initial and sale based promotion of necromancers as the “facetank and steal back the hp” class.

Warriors – block, mobility, vigor, evade moves (your argument is invalid in terms of stats).

Condis get cleansed, hard cc can only be stun broken or stability stopped, not a argument. But it does bring up lacking stability for a non evasion profession (in contrast to mesmers or thieves which have more than enough evades and blocks on under 10s cooldowns to be functionally only skill capped in terms of cc mitigation.

Elites were never mentioned in the post, they are above average (not best, but no bad one except for some bugs, but stuff like plague bugging and not applying its type if stripped and then launched till you get hit again or lich auto attack not being remembered are as said bugs and minor). Tho in all fairness, new guard tomes, all engie elites and all mesmer elites are far stronger on average use (compare/contrast, being immune to 5 people too stupid to get out of 600 range and plain chopping off 80% HP from 5 people on 1400 range while ccing them with mortar, which is by far the weakest engie elite).

P.S. Its not skill which is keeping you alive in WvWvW, its the GWE part of GWEN.

- stealth doesn’t make you invincible, evades usually come at relative high costs and given to classes that otherwise would die in 1-2 hits (necro isn#t one of them)
- HP actually does mean something, it affects amount of healing you get and how many hits you can take… 1 good backstab with fire/air procs would instagib a thief or ele, but would bring necro to 50-30% HP
- necro has life steal, not every profession has it to that extend
- thieves don’t have immunity to chills and cripple, that is plain lie and disinformation… cripple and chills actually screw thieves by a lot starting with crippled gap closers and inablity to get out of aoe
- why would necros get buffed? thief that is buildt around evades doesn’t really have much acess to stealth besides refuge and maybe cnd which they almost never use due to initiative consumtion
- 3 combat ports and blinks pre 10 sec? what build are we talking about here
- warriors have evades? that’s new…. if you mean endure pain, that doesn’t actually stop dmg, at least not condi… also warrior built for moblity has little survival actually or does 0 dmg
- condis also get applied more frequently and at much cheaper costs than condi cleanses… not sure what you are trying to say about CC…

lorndarken.3702:

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

classes are not balanced around 1v1…