Guild Wars 2

Was a vocal minority behind the changes to the Clocktower changes between 2012 and 2013?

In the 2012 Clocktower, players were put up against other players in a “race” to the top of the Mad King’s Clocktower. It was not an instance under the PvP-arena blueprint, but instead it was using the PvE basis for instancing, thus the gear the players wore was their proper PvE gear (see video).

One year later -2013- and the Clocktower is no longer a player race against other players. Instead, it’s you pitted against a bunch of floating misty balls. The game is set into the PvE-arena blueprint, so only sPvP gear is shown. It feels less enjoyable than last year because the competition pieces were removed while simultaneously taking out some of the PvE elements as well.

My fret is that Winter Wonderland will be morphed in the same traits as Clocktower. Much like CT1.0, Winter Wonderland was a PvE based environment, so PvE gear was there instead of sPvP. The thing about Winter Wonderland is that it was designed with 3 starting paths and wide ending paths, so it meant that “model clutter” would be kept at a minimum; turning players into misty balls on that one would be pointless, honestly.

So, what’s other people’s feedback on this?
Do you like that it’s no reflective of sPvP instead of PvE?
Are you enjoying racing misty balls?
Do you feel that some of the atmosphere is lost?

i prefer pve gear over spvp though i wear the same for both (heritage)
i do not enjoy racing misty balls
i feel that the atmosphere is lost

and why did they listen to the vocal minority?

Vocal minority?
Players against players?
Atmosphere? Of what, a ball of charr and norns?
Please.

Sweetie, if you play to compete with other players in everything, please keep to PvP and PvP aspects of this event.
Mad King’s Tower was never, ever a competition with other players, but yourself – you get no reward for beating other players, but reaching the top of the tower.
I see no loss in atmosphere whatsoever, but what I do see is a rare occurrence where ANet actually listened to player feedback and did the best they could.
The only reason Mad Kings Tower is a PvP area now btw is because this was the easiest way for them to make all necessary changes to happen (removing skills, buffs, traits).
PvP gear is a side-effect.

Again, if you need competition that badly, please look at the other areas of the game that are designed in competition in mind.
Tower is where you face yourself – and some lags.

Having oversized characters block my tiny Asura isn’t a test of skill. I’m glad they implemented the misty effect.

I wish there were more people though, the mist effect is fine, but with everybody being red, I’m not sure we can use map chat to talk? So we have to try to fit it in with /s when waiting for a new try or the first wall to blow out. It kills the camaraderie.

You can use map chat.

I think it’s a great change. The clocktower is not a race against other players but against the JP itself. There’s no single winner. Multiple people can finish the JP at the same time. This change makes it easier to see where one is going at the very beginning and I welcome it.

I like the changes. Last year you couldnt see your character but rather a ball of everyone. Mists are welcomed! And i agree this isnt a race against other players. This is between you and the clock tower.

Still I find it somehow less fun that you don’t see the real guys with you.
Then why not make it a solo instance if you don’t see anyone anymore…
I would be for the choice of joining old version or this “nerfed” version of clocktower.

last year was fun. there were always more than 5 in the instance, the range of races made the run to the top interesting and challenging, but not impossible. the top was a great place to take screenies, with people you’d usually spent hours with. you could play with your friends too.

this year, that is all gone. there is no challenge, no point in taking screenies (I despise PvP armor), and you can’t play with friends (unless you mess about and pray to the hot join gods). I’m sure its great for people who couldn’t do it last year, or for solo players, but for me the PvP template sucks the fun out of all activities and mini games.

I support everything about this. I don’t feel it will be as necessary to do this for Wintersday, though because that had multiple paths and more open areas. Getting crowded out by charr and norn wasn’t nearly as big an issue. They learned from what they did in the tower and changed the design direction.

That wasn’t an option in the tower, though, without rebuilding it from scratch and that’s no fun. So they went a different direction, and you can call them the vocal minority if you like, but when no one contradicts them they are the only input ANet has. The result is a better, if lonelier, experience.

I do agree on the PvE gear, though. I would much prefer to be using it instead of PvP gear. On that note, however, I happen to be wearing very low level appearing gear. If the armor skins you can buy in WvW work like other skins and can be converted to PvP skins I should be able to remake my look cheaply thanks to achievement rewards paying ridiculous amounts of badges of honor.

Yep, lack of atmosphere now.
Only up to 4 other people racing with you.
Cannot race up the tower with friends.
Plus now you cannot get the chest more than once per account; it used to be per character – which blows for replayability.

Last year it took me 12 hours to get to the top. It was hard and frustrating but I was with my friends, and made new friends. I have spent the whole year excited that the tower would come back… only to find out that I can’t play with my friends. I am alone with strangers…. most of who won’t talk. I am not wearing my normal clothes… I don’t even look like me. I can’t show my friends where to go, I have to try and talk them through it. Why can’t this be done like a dungeon instance. Still limited to 5. But you can take your friends. And if you don’t have five… you can do lfg. You could do it solo if you don’t want to. I don’t mind huge characters, that was part of the fun. Tixx was the perfect model. I don’t enjoy the pvp model. I play this game to be with my friends, not be with random people the game selects. This doesn’t work for people who roleplay either.

I jumped it easily this year, and was so disappointed that I couldn’t get pics with my friends, that I haven’t bothered getting pics. I still have my pics from last year, me and my bf at the top of the tower. We were so looking forward to that this year. I don’t even care that the reward is once per account instead of once per character. I just want to be with friends.

I agree with OP; last year’s implementation had a better atmosphere IMO.

I liked running it with friends. I liked being able to show off PvE gear (not personally, because I was not even 80, but I saw some good gear). And lastly, I liked seeing other players running alongside myself.

Regarding the visual obstruction aspect, I think this was actually a good thing for the puzzle. It forced you to occasionally change your route on the fly, based on the routes of other characters. Now that it is removed, you can just put one path on farm and there is little challenge in replayability.

I enjoyed seeing other players trying it with me, but it made it much more difficult to see where to jump. So I support the mist change.

While it was frustrating to see large character models last year, I do miss seeing other players. It was so much more fun last year and this year, and with all the practice I’ve had with JP’s, I would still feel that I could do it with other characters in play. I wish it was reverted to us seeing other characters.

You still see the other players if you have names turned on.

Is OP a troll? Is the “fun” watching other ppl die because there are too many players in the area (lag) and tight jumps are visually obstructed?

OP, you got your achieve. You got your limited one time only boots. The fixes are fantastic.

I was looking at my attempts from last year and I noticed I died more than a couple times because the “would you like to exit overflow” message popped up during my run. This year that wouldn’t happen because the puzzle was changed to an activity.

Hey, I like my pve gear better than my sPvP gear too, but I’ll take the camera fixes, consistent hit boxes, ability to grab the path chests, and ability to see my character over all of that.

Siphaed.9235:

One year later -2013- and the Clocktower is no longer a player race against other players. Instead, it’s you pitted against a bunch of floating misty balls. The game is set into the PvE-arena blueprint, so only sPvP gear is shown. It feels less enjoyable than last year because the competition pieces were removed while simultaneously taking out some of the PvE elements as well.
…
So, what’s other people’s feedback on this?
Do you like that it’s no reflective of sPvP instead of PvE?
Are you enjoying racing misty balls?
Do you feel that some of the atmosphere is lost?

It’s nice not seeing racism towards norn or charr and threads dedicated towards such this year. Players being harassed for their choice of character race was uncalled for last year, but it happened. It was addressed in a manner such that you can still actually see the players you are racing against.

Misty balls was an easier change then somehow getting rid of racists.

I just wish I could get the glove skin on all my characters, not just 1

The mist implementation doesn’t bother me. I got really upset last year with large character models blocking my view. I still managed to beat it, and after that it became rather easy. I actually feel like I need to apologize to those oversized norn and charr I verbally sparred with last year >.< but I have no idea what their names were.

Still, 3 different skins and only able to get 1

Just wish I could play with my friends, that’s all.

nekretaal.6485:

*snip *

Hey, I like my pve gear better than my sPvP gear too, but I’ll take the camera fixes, consistent hit boxes, ability to grab the path chests, and ability to see my character over all of that.

That’s a negative thing right there. The chests on the path were never meant to be had by the player. Two of the Lunatic Court guides standing at the start give hints that those chests are there to bait you into your failure/death during the puzzle. It’s essentially a trap set by Mad King Thorn.

Nefaria.7659:

It’s nice not seeing racism towards norn or charr and threads dedicated towards such this year. Players being harassed for their choice of character race was uncalled for last year, but it happened. It was addressed in a manner such that you can still actually see the players you are racing against.

Misty balls was an easier change then somehow getting rid of racists.

Yes, I’m sorry that some people took their frustration of failure out through blaming the ‘big’ races for their mistake. That was wrong of them. However, it’s also noted that their anger was misdirected and it was completely possible to do with larger races.

In fact, before they hotfixed it last year, players were able to do ability summons in the lobby, which caused all sorts of havoc with Ranger Elites and Elementalist Elementals; even at those times, players were still able to get through to the end and complete the puzzle.

The overall design of the puzzle is that of….think of it as Tier 4 Airship or Liadri: content that is purposely challenging and not everyone is going to complete it. Sure, everyone wants to complete it, but they’re just not going to. That was the true source of rage, the inability to complete it.

The only reason for me to do the jp now is if it is part of the daily achievement. I no longer find it thrilling or challenging due to how easy mode it has become. Last year I still had still a chance to miss jump. This is no longer the case. I also learned it on my Asuran last year with all the big Norns and Charrs in my way, but could do it on any race.

In fact I find the wisps to be a lot more annoying. This is because of the glowing effects that pop up in the middle of my camera due to being in the front after the first part is done.

I liked it better last year as well. It was more fun being in a horde of other characters all scrambling up the tower. This year’s is a little less challenging because of it, and more sterile/boring.

The ability to grab the path chests is not new. You could grab them last year too, I remember having a little competition with a couple of people last year to try and do a full run (getting all 3 chests and still finishing).

I personally loved seeing other players, it gave the whole experience an added sense of chaos. And I never found it much of a hindrance. I did most of my Clock Tower runs with my Asura last year (mostly to avoid “messing up” other players) and Norn and Charr didn’t bother me in the slightest. I don’t need to seen my character to aim my jumps, just aim for the spot on the screen that marks the character’s feet.

That said, I acknowledge that plenty of people did have trouble with it. So while I personally would prefer seeing character models and having that added hectic aspect, I acknowledge that this change was the best for the overall playerbase.

However, I also feel that the misty balls are actually worse than player models in some ways. While a player model blocks your view and the balls don’t (they do still obstruct it though, just not block it completely), I’ve had a few instances where a couple of bunched up “misty balls” getting really close to my camera causes my system to lag immensely. Which is, for my part, much worse than having my view blocked. Having my view blocked just means I need to jump as above, aiming for the center of the screen. Having lag means I have to completely adjust my timing on the fly.

BondageBill.4021:

I agree with OP; last year’s implementation had a better atmosphere IMO.

Better atmosphere? Last year I ran the puzzle as a skinny Sylvari and even I was getting hate. I felt so bad for the norn and charr. This year I haven’t seen one instance of hate. Much better atmosphere this year.

Misty balls
I dont mind them, but I would rather see my friends instead of blue balls, just normalize player size like in SAB

PVP Armor
This kitten ed me off… I worked hard to get my armor and look the way I want to. This is why I dont like spvp, but now I have to stare at an ugly impostor wearing lvl 1 armor in a jumping puzzle? That a kittenty desicion

Last year It was harder to finish. I only did it one time and trust me I tried for probably to long. This year I have been able to finish it over 10 times. I don’t care what I look like during the puzzle I just care if it is doable or not.

Seasonal events should not be made sterile. Misty balls are sterile. You can’t see them trip or stumble. They have no personality, because the evil hands of death aren’t grabbing a person. Just balls.

I love the change. I also really love the clock tower – it’s awesome!

The misty balls is nice, but I could take it either way. The advantage of the balls is you dont have a huge norn or Charr blocking your view. But the advantage of the Norn or Charr blocking your view is that it gives you an incentive to get faster so you can move past them so you can see better.
Moving the Jumping puzzle into sPvP was a mistake. Half the fun is racing friends and guild mates to the top of them. Plus it seems that no one really talks to each other in the sPvP setting, its just random people and you could change people after 15 min, before in the PvE arena you could run the same puzzle for hours with the same group so you got to know them and could joke around when you saw them take a bad miss step or congratulate them when they finally made it to the end.

Eroiqua.5891:

BondageBill.4021:

I agree with OP; last year’s implementation had a better atmosphere IMO.

Better atmosphere? Last year I ran the puzzle as a skinny Sylvari and even I was getting hate. I felt so bad for the norn and charr. This year I haven’t seen one instance of hate. Much better atmosphere this year.

The new atmosphere is sterile. Nobody talks (at least in the games I’ve been in), and you can’t tell which one of your cohorts fell first versus which one made it half way up with you. The new atmosphere might as well be a single player instance; it would have the same level of player interaction anyway.

BondageBill.4021:

The new atmosphere is sterile. Nobody talks (at least in the games I’ve been in), and you can’t tell which one of your cohorts fell first versus which one made it half way up with you. The new atmosphere might as well be a single player instance; it would have the same level of player interaction anyway.

I’ve had a completely different experience in several of my groups. People talking between runs, congratulating the ones who made it, giving suggestions to the ones who fell. Also, I can easily tell who fell where (make sure you have name tags visible!).

I don’t really care about the PvP or PvE thing (didn’t even notice it because my armor skin is exactly the same).
While I don’t particularly enjoy racing misty balls, I do like the fact that there are no other player models obsuring everything and it being less difficult with orange dyed armor (instead of blue or green). I would personally have prefered a solo instance (meaning mostly no waiting for others to finish/fail).
Most of what’s lost is the constant frustration over not seeing my own character through the other chartacters, mostly the norn and charr.

I appreciate the misty players, though also would have been happy with “semi-transparent” players instead of “a ball of mist.”

I do not care about the PvP or PvE gear I wear while jumping. Last year I jumped in my underwear and this year is no different.

The thing I miss the most about last year’s “atmosphere” was being able to group up with friends. Even if I’m just seeing their names and mist-balls pass by, it’s fun to be able to know who made it higher, and who got to the top first. THAT’S the thing I hope they don’t change for Winter. I want to be able to hang out with my friends.

The other thing I was saddened by this year was the change of reward from Per Character to Per Account. I feel like the gloves being not-salvageable would have been enough to make it so that it couldn’t be exploited. I’ll run this tower over and over again if you change it before it goes away, just to get gloves for when my alts turn 80.

For me it was a lot more fun last year. I liked having those big fat norns and charrs. It was a challenge and fun. Also there were a lot more people in the instance and the map chat would be interesting, people would rage after failing etc.
Now it just feels like single player, and I have no interest in spending any time there except to do the daily activity.

My problems with it are still the same:

- HORRIBLE camera. Last year I had to do it looking at the floor the entire time. It isn’t as bad as before. I don’t know what may have changed. But I’m still getting random zooming ins at the worst times. Specially at the top where there’s less distance to the debris over you.
- Collision boxes DO NOT match the terrain everywhere. In some spots, a gear that looks like stairs will stop you from walking up instead letting you go up like stairs would. Instead, you’ll slide to the sides as if you were walking towards wall. And really, really fast as you slide faster the greater the angle, and these collision boxes are all angled even if it looks youa re walking in a perpendicular line towards them. Some of the beams have no collision or their collision do not match the gear at . Jump at them in the wrong spot and you’ll fall through even though the very center of your model is clearly going on top of a beam.
- Unforgiving with lag. The player sees things going fine on their side. The server decides the fog touched player. Player is out. This needs to take into account this is an online game, and some people have over 400ms lag. It doesn’t.
- Unforgiving with slow loads. The wait is after some stairs and the fog starts right away. Instead, the fog should start rising AFTER the explosion that pops debris.
- It sometimes send you randomly back to the start. More than 20 times I was ahead. I didn’t fall. I didn’t hear the bone arms animation. There were others behind m that kept going on an that didn’t see me fall. I simply got the load screen.

Seeing other players was pointless to me. I didn’t mind them then. I wouldn’t mind them now. They do not affect me at all. I know where and when to jump. It’s all the other frustrating things that makes me hate this so much. It would be fun without all that stuff that is not part of the game mechanics and I can’t do anything about.

Don’t zoom your camera out so far. Zoom it in to near the character (I usually have mine 1 or 2 “notches” past the max zoomed in distance) and you’ll have little to no camera issues.

That changes nothing. And zooming in too much puts the camera right on the back of the character. Using the slider to move it sideways makes controls annoying and doesn’t really help with looking at the back of my characters.