Guild Wars 2

I do understand what you’re saying, except for one thing. Today is the third day of the event and I already have 10 of 13 done. If I had been able to get on earlier and completed both of the dailies from the 15th, or had more time and could complete 50 doors, I would be able to finish the meta today.

I have that many done because all of the achievements were for things I was going to do anyway. They don’t feel like achievements to me. I’ll give you that. But chores are things I have to do but would rather not be doing at all. Things I was going to do anyway and am being rewarded for doing are not chores.

While it would be easier to just reply with something like “don’t like the achievements? Don’t go get them”, i’m inclined to agree with the one i think is the main reason of your post: the amount of repetitive tasks in achievements.

50 doors to close? 10 would have been enough. I remember dragon bash, how many pignatas was? 250 or 300? 30 would have been enough, more is just grinding..
We could go on and on with the list, but that’s it..

The game, especially with a 2 week release schedule, needs more variety in achievements, not just bigger numbers to achieve. Why no Lunatic Inquisition achievements in the living world? Why not a clocktower achievement, maybe a “hard mode” one? Why not a scavenger hunt like last year?

Twilight assault dungeon achievement category is a good example on how a living world category should be: many different tasks that require you to play a content once or twice, thrice max to get them.

Quite the opposite for me as well. I feel like the last 2 metas were casual friendly since they could be achieved both with the event achievements and daily achievements. I haven’t felt over pressured to spend all my time doing event stuff. I can dabble and still have time for other things.

I’m not saying they’re not easy to do. I’m just saying I’m tired of doing them. Why are achievements the primary goal of the patches?

I totally agree with you. A lot of the achievements seem mundane and dare I say, grindy? With the meta reward being a mini or a backpack…neither of which I really want :|

Achievement hunting is good, if it’s something challenging. Not when I have to knock on 50 doors.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

The achievements don’t feel like achievements anymore, they feel like chores, or like those quests in other games Arena net said they abhorred, “Go kill 50 of this mob” “Go kill enough mobs to get this many trick-or-treat bags,”

Without getting into the rest of the post, I feel this is spot on. We dont have boring fetch/kill quests like many contemporary MMOs, but the living story achievements copy them pretty well. Now, that doesnt apply to every living story achievement, but still they need to dial back on the “kill 300 aetherblades, touch 100 torches/fireworks/holograms/etc” achievements.

Examples for achievements that were basically the same but didnt feel like a chore to me are the crystals you had to figure out how reach during Zephyr sanctum, or the scavenger hunt for dragon bits (although some clues would be nice for scavenger hunts, had to resort to a guide for the last 1-2 in each zone). The scavenger hunt last halloween was perfect btw, shame it didnt return for newer players.

I’m going to add “don’t like achievements?.. don’t do them”..

Yes, there are achievements that are VERY grindy and time consuming. The famous dragon bash piñatas, for example, very grindy, very annoying… which is exactly why I skipped them, yet I still have the meta rewards.

So far all living story have had very grindy achievements, which I don’t like and usually skip (unless it’s something I can get while actually playing, like the candy eating one on dragon bash, which when I noticed I had way more than enough to complete just by playing regularly), but also so far they’ve been optional achievements, even more with the last few living story bits that also add a daily to the achievements list.

Or just ignore the achievement aspect and focus on what it has you do. Believe it or not, these have the purpose of having you experience all of the content.

Achievements are only a grind because players choose to make them so. In fact, everything in this game is a grind for that very reason.

In principle, I completely agree with your disdain of achievement hunting for LS events. However, this year’s achievements have been designed and scaled well so that they’re easily accomplished within a few days of just enjoying the content. And since they added dailies to the LS meta progression back in the Pavillion days, it’s easier than ever. You don’t need to do 50 doors if you don’t want, just do another of the cycling dailies. And it’s here for a month! You’d have to actively try NOT to get the meta for this event.

Props to Anet for getting the LS achievement scaling right on. No more “carve a million pumpkins”

I will say though, that I miss not being able to attain a title. I’m hoping as more is unlocked, we can get a Right Hand of the Bloody Prince title. He’s a bit of a whiner, but I’m always down for dishing out some vegeance.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

I’m not saying they’re not easy to do. I’m just saying I’m tired of doing them. Why are achievements the primary goal of the patches?

Honestly, this is why I stopped playing GW2. It isn’t as though the random tasks in each patch are that difficult (though some are time-consuming), I could certainly do them as I did every other checklist between launch and the Queen’s Pavilion.

However, past a certain point I just have no interest in doing them any more. Each patch essentially revolves around carrying a clipboard in hand, focusing on checking the boxes one by one before the content disappears. What story there is gets buried under the to-do list, and isn’t paced well enough owing to the structure and frequency of patches.

Like you, I simply stopped doing the checklists, and suddenly realized there was nothing else to do. Everything else is still in the same state (more or less) as it was at launch and it’s simply uninteresting to me after doing it for a year or so.

Honestly, at this point I don’t think there’s a road back. The playerbase that is still active in GW2 is by-and-large composed of players that either don’t mind or actively enjoy the checklist style of play. Those that don’t enjoy it have been quietly (or not so quietly) disappearing over the course of the last year. If the Developers make any radical changes to the way they present content now, they risk losing those players as well.

Lots of people like structure in their gaming. They like having a to-do list, they really, genuinely like the process of gradually farming coin or materials and getting little trinkets as they go. Sadly, as much as I enjoy aspects of GW2 I don’t think that’s me and I don’t really blame the developers for not catering to my playstyle.

isendel.5049:

While it would be easier to just reply with something like “don’t like the achievements? Don’t go get them”, i’m inclined to agree with the one i think is the main reason of your post: the amount of repetitive tasks in achievements.

50 doors to close? 10 would have been enough. I remember dragon bash, how many pignatas was? 250 or 300? 30 would have been enough, more is just grinding..
We could go on and on with the list, but that’s it..

The game, especially with a 2 week release schedule, needs more variety in achievements, not just bigger numbers to achieve. Why no Lunatic Inquisition achievements in the living world? Why not a clocktower achievement, maybe a “hard mode” one? Why not a scavenger hunt like last year?

Twilight assault dungeon achievement category is a good example on how a living world category should be: many different tasks that require you to play a content once or twice, thrice max to get them.

Because all of those achievements are handled in the two dailies every day. The first pair of dailies was eating candy corn and doing lunatic inquisition. Yesterday was to beat the clock tower. Wednesday was five doors.

Also this will be going on until the middle of November, not just two weeks, as I understand it.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

I’m not saying they’re not easy to do. I’m just saying I’m tired of doing them. Why are achievements the primary goal of the patches?

This is actually the first event where that is actually the case. In all the other events the “goal” if there was one was to get some pointless thing. In this one, though, in order to progress the story you actually have to complete the meta, because until you have the candy corn mini you can’t do the next story mission.

No no, I think you guys are missing the point of the post. Maybe i worded it weird. There’s no other incentive to do some of this crap is what I’m saying. The past few patches have had a focus around achievements as an incentive. I want another incentive, an armor set, an awesome weapon, a new game mode, something!

Maximillian Greil.1965:

No no, I think you guys are missing the point of the post. Maybe i worded it weird. There’s no other incentive to do some of this crap is what I’m saying. The past few patches have had a focus around achievements as an incentive. I want another incentive, an armor set, an awesome weapon, a new game mode, something!

Oh… I do it cause it’s fun. I think if you’re doing it for achievements or any of those other things you’re kind of missing the point. The “reward” is supposed to be a bonus, not the purpose.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

No no, I think you guys are missing the point of the post. Maybe i worded it weird. There’s no other incentive to do some of this crap is what I’m saying. The past few patches have had a focus around achievements as an incentive. I want another incentive, an armor set, an awesome weapon, a new game mode, something!

While I respect and recognize what you are saying as a valid point, you are saying something that may yet come to pass. I haven’t yet progressed past 6/13 meta events, and honestly, I haven’t been trying hard because I have been trying to raise crafting, running wvw, etc. But there is a progression – we are getting a mini as part of the story progress which I think is neat because most of the other minis require real cash/gems. This is intrigal to the story, and I don’t know what’s coming after that, and maybe it is new armor, or weapon, or something. They did that with the adventure box, so it could well happen again.

I just wonder what the game would be like if they took the whole achievement system out.

I agree with this. “Achievements” should be renamed “Requirements” if this is how events are going to be from now on. Killing so many bad guys or opening so many bags is hardly worth calling an achievement anyway.

Achievements are bad design in general — they do nothing but trivialize content by subjugating actual experiences to a laundry list. They can be a crutch to add value to bad content, or filler to stretch out too little content, but they do nothing but devalue good content.

I bet most players would be far more in awe of the sights and sounds of the living story and get more enjoyment out of exploring it if they didn’t see it first through the lens of a simple check list.

The content has the value that it is assigned, and if you place the value emphasis on the play experience, the experience will be perceived as valuable. If you value your content as points and as a skin, players will weigh whether or not they want to play it based on how they value the points and that skin. Kind of a tragedy. It’s like you make a beautiful painting and then sell it for a couple of bucks because that’s the expectation and standard.

locoman.1974:

I’m going to add “don’t like achievements?.. don’t do them”..

Yes, there are achievements that are VERY grindy and time consuming. The famous dragon bash piñatas, for example, very grindy, very annoying… which is exactly why I skipped them, yet I still have the meta rewards.

I feel Anet have yet to hit a balance with their meta-achievement requirements. Used to be that there were enough static achievements (as in, those on the LW achievement panel) to pick and choose from, if you disliked certain activities or disliked grind. They hit their peak with this structure when they also added dailies, so if there were too many you didn’t want to do, you could probably knock off a couple of dailies instead. It was flexible.

Now, we’re never given enough static achievements to make the full meta-achievement, which means you have to log on multiple days during an event if you want the meta. It prevents the player from managing their own time in game and instead sticks them back on the game’s dictated schedule for the Living World. Players who can only log on one or two days a week are put at a significant disadvantage with this structure – even if they can play all day on the few days they can play, they are artificially barred from progressing the achievement.

The worst thing about this event’s achievements, however, is gating the story behind achievement grind. Even if you managed to get all 8 static achievements in one day’s play (not even possible at the minute with Mad King Says unavailable), and got your two dailies the same day, you still need to play an additional 2 days minimum to get the dailies. That’s just to get the silly mini, who should be cosmetic but for some reason has been made mandatory for story progression, so then you have the actual story you wanted to play to get on with that. Requiring a person to log in 3-5 times within the (often unclear) time limits of a living story, just to meet artifically time-gated requirements, negatively impacts people who do not have flexible play days/time.

The final thing is maybe purely personal opinion, but I think the meta-achievements should be made more trivial altogether. Give limited-time players the opportunity to get a cosmetic item (which is account bound anyway) and the feeling that even if they’ve only been able to invest a couple of days in an event, they still participated. Meanwhile, additional, tougher/more long-winded achievements for the players with more time on their hands could net them extra loot bags, AP, titles and so on.

TL;DR:
1) There should always be enough, preferably more than enough achievements to meet the meta-achievement in the static achievements.
2) Daily LW achievements should be supplemental, not required.
3) NEVER gate story progression behind grindy achievements.
4) Consider making the meta-achievement more trivial to acquire altogether. Include additional achievements (hopefully tougher, not grindier) for those who want the extra AP and the challenge.

In short, let people truly “play their way”.

I think it’s this stuff that is driving people away from the game. I have a guild of 300+ players… I have barely 20 of them log on. Out of a sample of 300 players as of the last 6 months… more than 90% of them have stopped playing. There is a problem.

You don’t have to do everything. I completely skipped the recent SAB update. Probably didn’t even enter Rata Sum once during the event.

Do what you enjoy doing and ignore the rest. If there is nothing that you enjoy then I guess you and the game are a bad match.

I agree with OP there’s too much chase the carrot or skinner box to this game. I ignore it as much as possible. AP total is tied into chests that you get every 500 AP you farm and make no mistake it’s farming now if you care about your AP total anyway. They have just disguised it as such to keep players occupied i think the luster is wearing off.

I played this game from launch it was great, that’s what i came to do play the game as it was. However after wintersday last year the model changed first they tried LS on a monthly basis and players complained they got bored with it. That’s because it was actually kind of boring at that point they just had you out doing scavenger hunts and random molten alliance mobs would spawn in the shiverpeaks and ascalon. There wasn’t much to tie anything together no cutscenses not much in the way of characters either and the tasks were kind of arbitrary. So the idea was to pump everything out at a faster rate and a more rigid schedule because some people got bored. It’s still the same stuff just at a higher frequency. Every month the player base got a new set of weapons skins and a back item to earn and it has been that way since. We got a new to-do list every two weeks as well, which when they decided to kick this thing into bi weekly content updates they also introduced the new AP award system to keep everyone busy working on their next AP chest rewards with zenith weapon skins or some other in game reward.

Not all of us were bored though. Maybe they were the majority at the time but I am not so sure that’s the case now. I see more and more threads showing up on here that protest how the LW has been in recent months. So I think and hope that maybe things will change again.

I would like to see more for GW2 i don’t want it to grow into a stale game that never changes. But I would prefer that it happen with care and planning, has a good overall story with characters that i actually care about. Tybalt was a character that I cared about, LS has yet to produce a Tybalt.

I don’t need AP to validate me as a player, but I do like the idea that we get rewards for continuing to play the game. I don’t like a to-do list every two weeks but i might like to return to older maps and explore them if they gave me a reason to, zerg invasions, and scavenger hunts are not good reasons. If a new feature such as a minigame or structure like a new dungeon, was added to a map that might make me want to revisit it.

TLDR: Richer content requires more effort, while to-do lists are easier to make and less time consuming on the staff so they are able to repeat this process on a bi weekly schedule

I understand what the OP is saying, and I somewhat agree with it. I happen to be really enjoying this Halloween content, but ya, 50 doors to close is a bit much, considering that many times the big bosses arrive and take at least 10 mins of “spam 1” to kill. What kind of HP do these things have? It was fun twice. After that it was boring as all get out.

My other “whine” is that the rest of the world is empty. No WvW, nothing… but plenty of zergs in the labyrinth.

Anyway, I don’t think it would be difficult to get all the AP in the two weeks, but I agree whole-heartedly that the thought that doing something over 50 or 200 times is not FUN and does seem rather chore-like.

While I kind of agree with the OP in principle, I think that the new achievement metas have been a vast improvement over what they were before. They don’t require tremendous amounts of grind, and having the metas completable via smaller daily tasks is a lot easier to do. (Carve 5 Pumpkins in one day is a lot more palatable than carve 100 Pumpkins over a month, even though technically the first would be a lot more.)

My only real complaint is that I would like to see returning achievements that aren’t tied to story (such as Pumpkin Carving, or the Clocktower), in order to allow players who didn’t have the chance to complete them last year the chance to finish them again. I suspect that there are technical restrictions behind how achievements work that prevent them from doing this, however.

I liked the old achievement system, where achievement points gave no rewards so there was no compelling reason to do them.

I agree that they need to implement some innovation within the game. Applying the same old trick over and over will make it result into a problem, not a bonus meant to keep or attract other players.

The best part about the achievements is that you basically complete them just from doing normal content. I personally don’t feel pressured to go after them or anything. I just play and if I ding an achievement, yippee!

That’s what I like about this game as a whole. The Tequatl and Aetherpath living story updates didn’t interest me too much. I basically took a month break and missing those achievements didn’t bother me at all. Yes, it slowed my progress towards my 6500 Achievement chest, but that’s about it.

The point I’m making is that you can play the game normally without having to do the achievements at all. You’ll get some just by playing and then if you want the others, you can go for them. This game is full of choices, it’s up to the player to make the ones that best fit them.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

I’m not saying they’re not easy to do. I’m just saying I’m tired of doing them. Why are achievements the primary goal of the patches?

It gives players goals and makes them login longer than if they didn’t exist

Zaxares.5419:

My only real complaint is that I would like to see returning achievements that aren’t tied to story (such as Pumpkin Carving, or the Clocktower), in order to allow players who didn’t have the chance to complete them last year the chance to finish them again. I suspect that there are technical restrictions behind how achievements work that prevent them from doing this, however.

The SAB World 1 achievements returned with World 2 so that doesn’t seem like it would be the case.

It seems there’s a focus on achievement point grind and I think they’re using that to keep people reeled in. With the WvW season starting today, you’ll see a whole new set for WvW alone, most likely an attempt to get more people to play it and to dangle another carrot.

Khisanth.2948:

Zaxares.5419:

My only real complaint is that I would like to see returning achievements that aren’t tied to story (such as Pumpkin Carving, or the Clocktower), in order to allow players who didn’t have the chance to complete them last year the chance to finish them again. I suspect that there are technical restrictions behind how achievements work that prevent them from doing this, however.

The SAB World 1 achievements returned with World 2 so that doesn’t seem like it would be the case.

Yes, but all of them did. Not just a few select achievements.

RoRo.8270:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

I’m not saying they’re not easy to do. I’m just saying I’m tired of doing them. Why are achievements the primary goal of the patches?

It gives players goals and makes them login longer than if they didn’t exist

You can only do the same goal for so long. Achievement hunting is stale after a while. I’d like to see things the way they were before. You didn’t have a reason to do the achievements because they gave no reward, so in the end the content that was being pushed out was much higher quality.

I agree the game has turned into an Achievement hunt but not for the achievement points necessarily, but for the rewards added to the meta events.

On another hand, it is hard to create content that is not grindy.

If they add more events in the world, people wont go and do them unless they are similar to world bosses or Scarlet invasions.

If they add more heart quests or make more levels in the exiting hearts it will still feel like a grind because they cant take away the map completion from those who have it but it will make the “job” for those who are still hunting it a lot longer and grindier

If they are just adding temporary content like they are doing now, they just put more pressure on the achievement hunters while otherd would just ignore it or do it accidentally

If they add new zones with hearts people will do them in 1 day and then there is nothing to do again

If they add a new race people will start to level it but doing the same hearts with the same professions is only a job for altoholics while the others will just ignore it

So, the examples can continue further. There is not so easy to add content that willl be enjoyed by all players without feeling grindy.
Long time ago I had a suggestion – which was ignored by the forum people – where I had suggested to “open up the skies of Tyria” meaning to introduce aerial content in all zones.
So, the conclusion is that A-net doesnt know what to add and players dont know what they really want

Teege.4623:

It seems there’s a focus on achievement point grind and I think they’re using that to keep people reeled in. With the WvW season starting today, you’ll see a whole new set for WvW alone, most likely an attempt to get more people to play it and to dangle another carrot.

Very true. I know I’ll be jumping in some WvW today just because of the new season aspect and the achievements now available for it. I haven’t done WvW in about 6 months….

Sooooo, if you don’t like the achievements you dont have to do them. There is plenty of other stuff to do in this game. Given time i’m sure they will release content with achievements that appeal to you. The past 6 months content updates they have been mixing it up a lot in my opinion. I’m personally hoping they add in another zone like southsun cove when november comes around, along with fractals update. I’m having fun with the achievements available right now though.

OMNIBUS.2913:

Sooooo, if you don’t like the achievements you dont have to do them. There is plenty of other stuff to do in this game. Given time i’m sure they will release content with achievements that appeal to you. The past 6 months content updates they have been mixing it up a lot in my opinion. I’m personally hoping they add in another zone like southsun cove when november comes around, along with fractals update. I’m having fun with the achievements available right now though.

other then achievements there is NOTHING left for me to do in the game. I’ve done it all to death. I have my legendary, ascended weapons, I’m set for ascended armor, I have done every dungeon to DEATH, built my guild and now I’m running a problem based off the initial reason for this post. I have close to 400 members… and 90% of them don’t log anymore. I did a purge about 6 months ago, and still this is the problem. I honestly think what’s happening with my guild is an accurate sample of the player base, and I’m terribly worried for the future of this game if it is.

Is anyone else’s guilds having this problem? where there’s just tons of inactive players who just stopped playing the game? Do you think the achievement system is what’s causing this drop in players? If we’re hemorrhaging players, there has to be a reason and it’s just as much our responsibility as it is the staff’s to figure out what it is. My opinion is it’s what I posted about.