Guild Wars 2

Although the PvE could be better in some ways, this is clearly a subjective opinion. Stating that it is a fact does not make it so.

If you want to be objective, you need to use objective terminology and be much more specific, you need to provide evidence of the specific details and you need to address your bias.

Sorry, not gonna bait me into turning this thread into a discussion about PvE. Also, I don’t NEED to provide evidence in order for something to be true. It’ll be true whether I do so or not.

Camping and griefing in the obsidian sanctum is nothing new. One group sees it as fun (or a easy way to get wvw ranks). the others just want an achievement. Go in when the kiddies are sleeping and all is just fine.

Airwolf.7382:

Camping and griefing in the obsidian sanctum is nothing new.

This is exactly what I was trying to get across. People held the sanctum all the time before this event existed. A lot of us WvW players have been trying to help you guys and tell you how to get around the camping but it seems to be falling on deaf ears. We go through this daily and have been since GW2 was launched. Because we get badges and siege for completing the JPs daily. We know how to flush the enemy teams out of the sanctum because we do it, all the time.

Accept that it’s a PvP achievement and treat it like one and I bet you would have a lot more fun.

get a thief and do it. there are videos on youtube showing ways to go through fully stealthed. or have a mesmer friend try to do it and port you up there, or something to that effect. there are ways to combat the griefing.

blakkrskyrr.7413:

get a thief and do it. there are videos on youtube showing ways to go through fully stealthed. or have a mesmer friend try to do it and port you up there, or something to that effect. there are ways to combat the griefing.

Stealth doesn’t protect you from aoe damage. Many times people just wait at the top and rain aoes below, making it impossible to pass. I don’t blame the WvW players doing what they’ve always done, this is ArenaNet’s mistake for attaching a PvE living world achievement to a PvP map. Worst decision ever!

blakkrskyrr.7413:

get a thief and do it. there are videos on youtube showing ways to go through fully stealthed. or have a mesmer friend try to do it and port you up there, or something to that effect. there are ways to combat the griefing.

How many times does it need to be pointed out that thieves, necromancers, and rangers can place CC traps to make you fall mid-jump? Or that even with swiftness, you can’t clear the arena while in combat? Or that 90% of the puzzle is small, linear platforms that leave no room for avoiding traps and enemies?

As I said before, if the griefer is properly equipped with the right tools and knowledge, you either have to outnumber them, or wait till they’re gone.

Putting a pve achieve in a pvp zone was a bad bad idea to begin with. I wish they’d learn to stop doing this. All it does is cause problems for everyone by feeding the griefers. If you’re there camping the puzzle for the sole purpose of pvping there, that’s one thing, but people have shown up in droves for the sole purpose of greifing and getting that empty hole filled in their souls for a small minute by making someone else have a bad day. You can tell which they are because they sit in huge groups right outside each entrance or right at the kite itself and wait. Save your “entitlement” speeches, heard it all before, don’t care. This was just a poor decision on the devs parts.

Stealth doesn’t protect you from aoe damage. Many times people just wait at the top and rain aoes below, making it impossible to pass.

I love hearing about these people that just sit in places and attack the air non-stop for hours on end.

Either that’s a story made purely out of bull (I’ve never, ever, ever seen it) or you should just not worry about it and get a good laugh out of people wasting their whole day swinging at the air.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Putting a pve achieve in a pvp zone was a bad bad idea to begin with. I wish they’d learn to stop doing this. All it does is cause problems for everyone by feeding the griefers. If you’re there camping the puzzle for the sole purpose of pvping there, that’s one thing, but people have shown up in droves for the sole purpose of greifing and getting that empty hole filled in their souls for a small minute by making someone else have a bad day. You can tell which they are because they sit in huge groups right outside each entrance or right at the kite itself and wait. Save your “entitlement” speeches, heard it all before, don’t care. This was just a poor decision on the devs parts.

There are, by definition, no PvE achievements in PvP areas.

What you are talking about is a PvP achievement in a PvP area.

Once you learn how to properly identify things, avoiding things you don’t like will be a lot easier.

Bovinity.8610:

I love hearing about these people that just sit in places and attack the air non-stop for hours on end.

Either that’s a story made purely out of bull (I’ve never, ever, ever seen it) or you should just not worry about it and get a good laugh out of people wasting their whole day swinging at the air.

Traps and marks. All these campers need to do is wait till their thief/necro/ranger is “in combat”.

Just because you haven’t seen it happen doesn’t mean it doesn’t.

At the risk of sounding cross, I openly admit that I was camping that spot myself on Borlis Pass for a while.

All you need to do is get near it. Not do anything else. Just dodge and when you get the achieve, let them kill you.

Sawnic.6795:

All you need to do is get near it. Not do anything else. Just dodge and when you get the achieve, let them kill you.

The hard part is getting there. Especially as the colosseum is such an incredible chokepoint. Were they to put it in the colosseum instead, people would not mind dying after getting it. The problem is people keep dying before they even get close.

I don’t get the problem .. I’m going to get my achievement and I never attempted Obsidian Kite. Go get some of the other ones to finish.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Sawnic.6795:

All you need to do is get near it. Not do anything else. Just dodge and when you get the achieve, let them kill you.

The hard part is getting there. Especially as the colosseum is such an incredible chokepoint. Were they to put it in the colosseum instead, people would not mind dying after getting it. The problem is people keep dying before they even get close.

…So learn to dodge?

Sawnic.6795:

…So learn to dodge?

Right. Dodge right off the platforms that you need to climb. Because players will spam AoEs over the entire platforms, you know.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Sawnic.6795:

…So learn to dodge?

Right. Dodge right off the platforms that you need to climb. Because players will spam AoEs over the entire platforms, you know.

Correcting myself.

“Learn to juke.”

Sawnic.6795:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Right. Dodge right off the platforms that you need to climb. Because players will spam AoEs over the entire platforms, you know.

Correcting myself.

“Learn to juke.”

Once I see you or any single player (or even a group of two players) climb the colosseum successfully past aware campers on top, then I’ll believe your statement that it is possible. Until then, I’ll go off of my own observations. That only a decent zerg (15+ players) can bypass that chokepoint that can be easily held by 4-5.

Airwolf.7382:

Go in when the kiddies are sleeping and all is just fine.

This. I got mine at 7am on a Sunday morning. Went in there and no one attacked me. In fact Enemies were helping each other out by showing those that seemed lost where to go.

At the moment the griefing is horrendous ion our server with Abbadons Mouth farming it. Does it bother me that they are doing it…. yes. However I chose to go in there to get the achievement, no one forced me.

probably gonna get flamed for this..

what if ANet put in super smart AI-ed mobs at the end of a JP in PvE-land and they are OP and OHKO if you’re not careful. would that be alright? i know, the heart of the argument many have is that PvP = / = PvE. at the same time, why not just treat the WvWers as said OP mobs with really high AI? XDDD you are in PvP-land after all, and most of the “mobs” are going to be your opposing servermates.

it’s like one normally wouldn’t go solo the Champ Risen Abom on their own (yes, i know it can be done), but would go as a group to up their chances or survival and succeeding. i’ve often found many Risen (the one’s that pull you) way more annoying than any real player i’ve faced off against.

can take it as a chance to hone in on your skills or explore more of what your class or the game has to offer : ))

akamon.2769:

can take it as a chance to hone in on your skills or explore more of what your class or the game has to offer : ))

Problem is that there’s several chokes on in the puzzle that make it impossible to advance (without an absurd difference in numbers) while your enemies are using certain tactics.

Just putting you in combat makes scaling the arena impossible for most classes, let alone dealing with the CC hitting you mid-jump.

If the people who camped had to do something challenging, I’d be ok with it, but soloing Arah is easier than a single upleveled staff necro atop the arena.

I am really glad that I decided to do this on day one. Though it seems like this was less of a problem than the Aetherblade Cache.

I’ve held the arena alone with my longbow/hammer warrior against 5 people with no problem. True I couldn’t finish off any of them, but they couldn’t get up either. At best they got to the railing and I would smack them off it with my hammer.

Also again people who say “Lrn to pl4y lolz” are missing a point. As are those who are talking about earning the achievement. At least I never complained about working for an achievement. My complaint with this issue is that there is no work. You simply can’t get it unless you luck out or have a PvP guild backing you.

In my case I had to ask people on my server to help me. I was largely a decoration so where is the “work” for achievement there? Where’s the challenge? The only challenge was writing here and using map chat and while I may not be the most skilled typer I don’t consider that a challenge at all.

The fact remains: Obsidian Sanctum is a very bad place for the kite. Doubly so since it completely blocks another achievement. If we were talking about a single point only it wouldn’t be that much of an issue. Whoever gets to the spawn camping spots pretty much can hold them forever and deny access for everyone else, unless they luck out or superior force manages to eventually flush them out.

Compare this to Sanctum Sprint. It took me nearly two weeks to get into the first spot but I would never even dream of complaining about it. While it’s PvP it’s fair PvP. You actually have to work for your spot assuming no one gives it to you free. Everyone is equalized there. Only skill matters.

This is very much unlike OS where not only position (camping spots) matters but also gear and build – and level too. Someone with ascended gear and build focused on PvP is going to have a huge advantage over someone who pops in from PvE and is inexperienced both in PvP and in building PvP characters. Add a large group of hostile players vs solo or a small group and the issue is magnified.

If they had wanted to offer a fair playground they would have placed this into a spot where WvWvW is more natural. Stonemist castle or some neutral site. Heck they could have even placed it into actual competitive PvP zone and it would have still been a better spot.

akamon.2769:

what if ANet put in super smart AI-ed mobs at the end of a JP in PvE-land and they are OP and OHKO if you’re not careful. would that be alright? i know, the heart of the argument many have is that PvP = / = PvE. at the same time, why not just treat the WvWers as said OP mobs with really high AI? XDDD you are in PvP-land after all, and most of the “mobs” are going to be your opposing servermates.

Except you would have exactly same problem as now magnified. This would be equally bad design. It is bad because as a game developer you would want to provide a challenge. Not block access. Blocking access is what happens in sanctum.

Edit: Also a single champion mob would be trivial. OS situation is more like having anything from 1-20 champions placed into spots where they can push/kill you before you even have a chance to reach them. Placed tactically into spots where they can do most harm and with ability to move around whole zone and to return camping spots at will.

probably gonna get flamed for this..

what if ANet put in super smart AI-ed mobs at the end of a JP in PvE-land and they are OP and OHKO if you’re not careful. would that be alright? i know, the heart of the argument many have is that PvP = / = PvE. at the same time, why not just treat the WvWers as said OP mobs with really high AI? XDDD you are in PvP-land after all, and most of the “mobs” are going to be your opposing servermates.

it’s like one normally wouldn’t go solo the Champ Risen Abom on their own (yes, i know it can be done), but would go as a group to up their chances or survival and succeeding. i’ve often found many Risen (the one’s that pull you) way more annoying than any real player i’ve faced off against.

can take it as a chance to hone in on your skills or explore more of what your class or the game has to offer : ))

Actually, the PvP crowd would just step up and deal with it, just like we deal with every other silly PvE thing that we have to deal with.

Keep posting. Meanwhile the rest of us will just be accomplishing the things you’re whining about. =)

Bovinity.8610:

probably gonna get flamed for this..

what if ANet put in super smart AI-ed mobs at the end of a JP in PvE-land and they are OP and OHKO if you’re not careful. would that be alright? i know, the heart of the argument many have is that PvP = / = PvE. at the same time, why not just treat the WvWers as said OP mobs with really high AI? XDDD you are in PvP-land after all, and most of the “mobs” are going to be your opposing servermates.

it’s like one normally wouldn’t go solo the Champ Risen Abom on their own (yes, i know it can be done), but would go as a group to up their chances or survival and succeeding. i’ve often found many Risen (the one’s that pull you) way more annoying than any real player i’ve faced off against.

can take it as a chance to hone in on your skills or explore more of what your class or the game has to offer : ))

Actually, the PvP crowd would just step up and deal with it, just like we deal with every other silly PvE thing that we have to deal with.

Keep posting. Meanwhile the rest of us will just be accomplishing the things you’re whining about. =)

Maybe you should reread the post you quoted. The poster is on your “side.”

IndigoSundown.5419:

Maybe you should reread the post you quoted. The poster is on your “side.”

That doesn’t matter to most. They just want to rail on us PvE ‘carebears’ that they think are unwilling to try and unskilled to boot. *shakes head*

After being ganked at least 4 times by a mob of FA people in the coliseum just past the dark room, I got a port to the top from a mesmer. After I got the port, allowing me to skip 90% of the puzzle, I realized what an over rated JP Obsidian Sanctum actually is.

Thanks so much for locking me out of the kite achievement. Really, just awesome of you to give all the puzzle jump campers tons of fresh PvE noobs to feed on….. I know all the campers just LOVE you for it….. Me not so much…..

Awwww boo hoo hoo………

I’m on the Jade Quarry server. A guildie and me went through the JP yesterday afternoon (Saturday) and got to the arena. Tarnished Coast was ganking people there. We lost the fight. My guildie was totally bummed. It was his first time through the JP and I think him getting ganked totally ruined the experience for him. He enojys JPs very much but what happened in OS totally bummed him and and he logged after getting ganked.

So this morning I thought, well those gankers must be asleep so I woke up at 4am CST so I could get the Kite achievement. I made it to the arena again and at the top was a long bow Tarnished Coast ranger killing people. I was able to LOS him then 2 more Tarnished Coast players came up to me and killed me.

I don’t know what I’m suppose to do. I don’t enjoy pvp’g at all but I would like to have the achievement but I am prevented from obtaining it. These little disappointments discourage me from playing this game and encourage me to play other games. The little disappointments are slowly adding up. This is not something like the range on my skill changed or they nerfed my pet’s damage by 15%. There is an achievement I’d like to get but players are preventing me from obtaining it. And they are preventing me from obtaining it just because they want to cause trouble for non-pvprs.

As a side note, the Well/invis should be a permanent buff and not limited to time so PVE players can get the achievement. Those who don’t mind pvp’g don’t need to take the Well buff and everyone lives happily ever after.

Revel Heart I understand. I’m in the same boat. Twice I have attempted to complete it and twice I have gotten killed by 2-3 Tarnished Coast players in arena.

The unfortunate thing is it’s not really a skill thing. I fancy myself a good pvper but if there is a griefing group that has even one mesmer at the top of the arena it is impossible to complete the puzzle without bringing in your own well-sized brigade. Your best option is to just keep trying at different times of day really (late at night is usually a good time).

I will say It’s pretty sadistic of Anet to put the arena 3/4 through the puzzle though. It’s no lie to say being pked at the arena is by far the most infuriating experience in this game, because it’s some lowlife wasting your precious time for no good reason, other than maybe a freaking badge.

I’ve done this JP before and understand the difficulties. I tried it yesterday afternoon (Saturday) with a guildie where it was his first time and we of course were killed in the arena and it ruined his experience with the JP. I got up at 4am CST this morning and got killed again in the arena. I change my schedule to accommodate the game yet it fails. To be honest, these little disappointments are adding up and there are many free games to play. Rift is a good one. Anet has competition and the result is my time is invested in other games a little more each time these little disappointments occur with less time spent in GW2.

Well said Jabberwock, sadistic is exactly the right word. Sadistic design of the event to be precise, the only thing I can think of was Anet thought it would get more folks involved with WvW. I posit that it has done the exact opposite and all Anet has done was put more people off WvW. Hopefully, future events will be a little more considerate of “all” play styles.

@iczek

Often there’s somebody who can give you a port in this JP. Just ask in map chat. If not, then its best to come back later.

I love JPs, and honestly, I actually even love being hunted in a JP provided that it’s possible to still escape and complete it through the highly skilled play. Unfortunately as another poster pointed out, this isn’t possible once you get to to the arena.

My recommendation to you is just check back frequently and ask if somebody is giving ports in map chat.

However, once you realize (as I recently have) that 90% of the challenges of JPs can be circumvented via mes ports, you’ll understand just how meaningless these achievements really are.

I made it to the kite today on a last attempt & together with a guildie. I am really proud of the Aurora Glades server people I saw this morning, because although there were a lot of us in the puzzle, they did not repeat what Abbadon’s Mouth & Gandarra guilds did the last two weeks: Killing off players from opposing servers at choke points.
Two RoF players passed me during the puzzle and they both did not attack. I am happy for them to get to the kite unharmed.

This does not mean that I will now say: “The achievement in Obsidian Sanctum can be done is you try often enough so stop complaining.” Putting the achievement there twice (!) is still a very bad decision by the content designers and I hope we don’t see something like that a third time.

I’ll be danged, I got up and got in before all the gankers this AM Done!

iczek.9628:

I don’t know what I’m suppose to do. I don’t enjoy pvp’g at all but I would like to have the achievement but I am prevented from obtaining it.

Your choices are quite simple.

1. Continue trying at odd hours in the hope you will get lucky.
2. Devise a PvP solution to a PvP problem. This would probably mean asking for help from guild members or randoms in the EB map.
3. Reconcile yourself to the likelihood that, if you don’t want to embrace the game mode, you may not get the achievement.

Good luck, whichever option you pursue.

IndigoSundown.5419:

iczek.9628:

I don’t know what I’m suppose to do. I don’t enjoy pvp’g at all but I would like to have the achievement but I am prevented from obtaining it.

Your choices are quite simple.

1. Continue trying at odd hours in the hope you will get lucky.
2. Devise a PvP solution to a PvP problem. This would probably mean asking for help from guild members or randoms in the EB map.
3. Reconcile yourself to the likelihood that, if you don’t want to embrace the game mode, you may not get the achievement.

Good luck, whichever option you pursue.

I appreciate you trying to help.

1) I have a fulltime job and a life outside of this game. I don’t have the hours to commit to getting this achievement. It shouldn’t take hours to obtain, however, unfortunately players enjoy causing trouble for other players. Treat people the way you’d like to be treated…
2)I’m in a very small guild with close friends. They’re not on much so asking them is not an option. I have attempted to get a group together via map chat but no luck.
3)I have made the decision that if I don’t get then I just don’t get it. After all, it’s just a game.

Things like this don’t upset me, just disappointing.

@Rottaran/Northlander – fair points, all. i guess i was merely trying to offer a different perspective, though not a very strong one. the ANet devs, i’ve read here and there, do want people to get interested in WvW. and putting achievements in WvW has definitely made people enter WvW, whereas previously they may have never imagined it. but it’s the experience they get when going there, that can sway them to keep pursuing or fall in love with WvW / PvP of gw2. so i do agree, that it’s rough when you have to go through OS. and there’s always been a rift, if you will, between “hardcore” WvW-ers vs “hardcore” PvE-ers. so the WvWers are gonan take advantage of that. not saying all, cause many actually won’t even touch you.

@Bov – see what @Ingido wrote – though, i’m not really taking sides. : ))

@Synful – : (((

I rarely complain about anything to do with GW2, but I sincerely hope ANet never puts any more PvE-aimed achievements in a WvW JP ever again.

I love both PvE and WvW, but I don’t like that the Bazaar kite was in there at all.

Yes it was challenging, but not in a good way, it just highlighted how many sociopaths there are running around Tyria :-P

I’m a hardcore WvWer and spend at least 80% of time in WvW, I went into the puzzle the other day and barely saw anyone albeit a few guys from my server and one unfortunate dead(I may have been the cause) enemy in the dark room. I had no problem getting the kite and this was around prime time…so stop complaining

KorKor.9452:

There will always be people claiming it is just -pvp- and tough cookie. However you will always find that those people are ALWAYS without a shadow of a doubt the ones doing the camping of these areas or in other games corpse camping someone for HOURS. Which at that point it goes beyond just -pvp- and into trolling/griefing a player.

How does it feel to make an absolute statement and automatically negate the legitimacy of said statement?

I claim it is just pvp and tough cookies. I also hate PvP and avoid it at every oppotunity. I don’t corpse camp, I don’t Juzzle camp. I don’t take advantage of choke points, I try to avoid other players in Obsidian Sanctum as much as I possibly can. At the same time, when someone else is not avoiding me and going out of their way to harrass me, I say, “Well kitten , I guess I’m not going to make it this time cause this is a PvP zone and PvP is happening at me.”

So, it’s just pvp and tough cookies.

I’m on the Jade Quarry server. A guildie and me went through the JP yesterday afternoon (Saturday) and got to the arena. Tarnished Coast was ganking people there. We lost the fight. My guildie was totally bummed. It was his first time through the JP and I think him getting ganked totally ruined the experience for him. He enojys JPs very much but what happened in OS totally bummed him and and he logged after getting ganked.

So this morning I thought, well those gankers must be asleep so I woke up at 4am CST so I could get the Kite achievement. I made it to the arena again and at the top was a long bow Tarnished Coast ranger killing people. I was able to LOS him then 2 more Tarnished Coast players came up to me and killed me.

I don’t know what I’m suppose to do. I don’t enjoy pvp’g at all but I would like to have the achievement but I am prevented from obtaining it. These little disappointments discourage me from playing this game and encourage me to play other games. The little disappointments are slowly adding up. This is not something like the range on my skill changed or they nerfed my pet’s damage by 15%. There is an achievement I’d like to get but players are preventing me from obtaining it. And they are preventing me from obtaining it just because they want to cause trouble for non-pvprs.

As a side note, the Well/invis should be a permanent buff and not limited to time so PVE players can get the achievement. Those who don’t mind pvp’g don’t need to take the Well buff and everyone lives happily ever after.

Wow, gonna quit the whole game because you failed to get one achievement?

It really is easy to tell who the spoiled PvE’ers are around here. Sheesh.

Also, I’m on JQ as well and I’ve yet to see a force from FA or TC this week doing anything significant to keep JQ’ers out of the JP. Usually we have a pretty significant population in there and mesmers putting portals up regularly during NA primetime hours when I’m doing my daily run through.

Really, Jade Quarry is not the server to claim “I can’t do the JP” on. I have never, ever, ever one time had a problem solo-running that place every day, or getting a portal from a mesmer.

That doesn’t matter to most. They just want to rail on us PvE ‘carebears’ that they think are unwilling to try and unskilled to boot. shakes head

No, it’s just that the constant whining gets old.

Plus you guys seem to have this fantasy of this sacred wall between WvW and PvE that never ever ever gets crossed, ever, and this one thing is a huge slap in your face or something. Meanwhile those of us that focus on WvW and have to do PvE-stuff all the time are just seeing what appears to be a bunch of entitled whiners that already have the majority of the game catering to them so much that now they’re spoiled and can’t handle one little achievement potentially being tough to get.

I mean really, people posting that they’re going to quit over a kite? How is that even a thing?

Good riddance to anyone quiting because they can’t get 1 achievement, go cry somewhere else

Ryuujin.8236:

I know a few folks who are:
a) OCD about attaining PvE achievements
b) Bought the game on the pretense that they would not have to participate in PvP.

Still seems like a bait and switch when PvE achievements have a PvP map in them. (Fortunately for them I just ported them across being a mez; though they were pretty terrified by the idea but equally anxious on missing their achievement.)

It isn’t a PvE achievement, it’s a a Living Story achievement and as such it has points in every aspect the update includes. Not just PvE.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Hmm. Interesting how the actual argument gets ignored time and time again by people jumping in the thread and not reading anything that came before.

What actual argument exactly? The actual argument is that a guy from a rival server is complaining that our server was camping the site and preventing him from getting through, despite the fact that his server did the exact same thing back to us.

The argument is that he has really bad timing and plays when we control the map instead of when his people do.

What actual argument exactly?

The argument is that – as spoiled as they are by the reward laden, cannot-be-failed, success-lands-in-your-lap nature of the PvE in this game – they’re absolutely horrified that the developers had the nerve to mix in PvP with their PvE, because the two never, ever, ever mix and should always be 100% separate.

Of course, as spoiled as they are, they don’t seem to realize that there’s really no separation at all if you’re a WvW player, we’re stuck doing PvE all the time if we want stuff. =D