That doesn’t matter to most. They just want to rail on us PvE ‘carebears’ that they think are unwilling to try and unskilled to boot. shakes head
No, it’s just that the constant whining gets old.
Plus you guys seem to have this fantasy of this sacred wall between WvW and PvE that never ever ever gets crossed, ever, and this one thing is a huge slap in your face or something. Meanwhile those of us that focus on WvW and have to do PvE-stuff all the time are just seeing what appears to be a bunch of entitled whiners that already have the majority of the game catering to them so much that now they’re spoiled and can’t handle one little achievement potentially being tough to get.
I mean really, people posting that they’re going to quit over a kite? How is that even a thing?
Complaints of what seems to be a poorly implemented idea is not whining. It is making our irritation known. Just as WvWers complain about the achievement system being poorly implemented for them. Again, that is complaining and not whining.
My biggest problem with the kite being in the puzzle is it is a terrible introduction to WvW because it does not represent what WvW is. It feels like PvP, not WvW. So it gives the wrong idea of what WvW is and drives many potential WvWers away. I know, personally, if that JP had been my first taste of WvW that I would never go back.
And before you jump on me as many in the past have, I have not only gotten it of my own accord this time and last but I have also escorted and portalled guildies and others from my server.
Hmm. Interesting how the actual argument gets ignored time and time again by people jumping in the thread and not reading anything that came before.
What actual argument exactly? The actual argument is that a guy from a rival server is complaining that our server was camping the site and preventing him from getting through, despite the fact that his server did the exact same thing back to us.
The argument is that he has really bad timing and plays when we control the map instead of when his people do.
The actual argument is that most of us don’t think that the kite should be in the puzzle in the first place.
Hmm. Interesting how the actual argument gets ignored time and time again by people jumping in the thread and not reading anything that came before.
What actual argument exactly? The actual argument is that a guy from a rival server is complaining that our server was camping the site and preventing him from getting through, despite the fact that his server did the exact same thing back to us.
The argument is that he has really bad timing and plays when we control the map instead of when his people do.
The actual argument is that most of us don’t think that the kite should be in the puzzle in the first place.
If you’re going to put it that way, then the argument is that some of you don’t think that, and most of us don’t care or think it’s fine as is.
That doesn’t matter to most. They just want to rail on us PvE ‘carebears’ that they think are unwilling to try and unskilled to boot. shakes head
No, it’s just that the constant whining gets old.
Plus you guys seem to have this fantasy of this sacred wall between WvW and PvE that never ever ever gets crossed, ever, and this one thing is a huge slap in your face or something. Meanwhile those of us that focus on WvW and have to do PvE-stuff all the time are just seeing what appears to be a bunch of entitled whiners that already have the majority of the game catering to them so much that now they’re spoiled and can’t handle one little achievement potentially being tough to get.
I mean really, people posting that they’re going to quit over a kite? How is that even a thing?
Complaints of what seems to be a poorly implemented idea is not whining. It is making our irritation known. Just as WvWers complain about the achievement system being poorly implemented for them. Again, that is complaining and not whining.
My biggest problem with the kite being in the puzzle is it is a terrible introduction to WvW because it does not represent what WvW is. It feels like PvP, not WvW. So it gives the wrong idea of what WvW is and drives many potential WvWers away. I know, personally, if that JP had been my first taste of WvW that I would never go back.
And before you jump on me as many in the past have, I have not only gotten it of my own accord this time and last but I have also escorted and portalled guildies and others from my server.
How is it poorly implemented? They quite successfully created a zone where people are encouraged to fight eachother in order to gain a tangible reward. An area that simultaneously causes people who don’t actually want to be involved to consistently subject themselves to the turmoil of the event.
This is exactly what they were trying to create, in every way. All you have to do is read the dev statements to realize that. As such it was implemented perfectly and therefore any complaints that it wasn’t are, in fact, whining.
Your complaint is that you don’t want to do the content in the way they specifically designed it. That you don’t want to feel like you have to do it, even though you don’t, and that you want to get the reward without playing in the manner they designed the area to be played as. That is whining.
How is it poorly implemented? They quite successfully created a zone where people are encouraged to fight eachother in order to gain a tangible reward. An area that simultaneously causes people who don’t actually want to be involved to consistently subject themselves to the turmoil of the event.
Quite simple really. There’s multiple locations that are such good chokepoints that all real counter-play is lost, and the only real solution to get by is either vastly outnumber your enemy, hope they don’t know where the good chokepoints are or how to use them, or wait for them to leave, and thanks to AoEs being spherical, it’s possible to place CC traps that hit players mid-jump, and thus are impossible to dodge.
Just saying “Devs intended PvP, thus it’s ok” shows ignorance of the fact that PvP experiences can be inherently flawed. In this case, sections like the well and arena are too easily camped with little risk; especially for classes with trap-like AoEs like the ranger, necro and thief. And there are too few options for dealing with these campers.
It boils down to this. Not everyone likes the same things, so the devs cannot aim everything in the game at one demographic. Because something is an Achievement does not mean it is aimed solely at PvE-only players, although the vast majority of them are.
The actual argument is that most of us don’t think that the kite should be in the puzzle in the first place.
If you’re going to put it that way, then the argument is that some of you don’t think that, and most of us don’t care or think it’s fine as is.
Many that ’don’t care’ just want what they see as free kills. Any who act like that instead of stepping back and seeing issues where they are are not worth considering.
Now some may truly not care. Good for them. But for many PvEers, this is an issue that warrants a moment’s consideration.
How is it poorly implemented? They quite successfully created a zone where people are encouraged to fight eachother in order to gain a tangible reward. An area that simultaneously causes people who don’t actually want to be involved to consistently subject themselves to the turmoil of the event.
Quite simple really. There’s multiple locations that are such good chokepoints that all real counter-play is lost, and the only real solution to get by is either vastly outnumber your enemy, hope they don’t know where the good chokepoints are or how to use them, or wait for them to leave, and thanks to AoEs being spherical, it’s possible to place CC traps that hit players mid-jump, and thus are impossible to dodge.
Just saying “Devs intended PvP, thus it’s ok” shows ignorance of the fact that PvP experiences can be inherently flawed. In this case, sections like the well and arena are too easily camped with little risk; especially for classes with trap-like AoEs like the ranger, necro and thief. And there are too few options for dealing with these campers.
Yeah. Pretty much this.
If they wanted to get people interested in WvW, they should have put it in one of the main WvW maps. That way people would see what WvW does and how it operates. Putting it in a chokepoint heavy jumping puzzle only shows the worst of PvP and nothing of WvW.
(edited by SynfulChaot.3169)
Your complaint is that you don’t want to do the content in the way they specifically designed it. That you don’t want to feel like you have to do it, even though you don’t, and that you want to get the reward without playing in the manner they designed the area to be played as. That is whining.
No, this!
Your complaint is that you don’t want to do the content in the way they specifically designed it. That you don’t want to feel like you have to do it, even though you don’t, and that you want to get the reward without playing in the manner they designed the area to be played as. That is whining.
No, this!
I’m sorry, but discussing it and the issues that have arisen from it is not whining. It is discussing.
All those that insist that it is whining are those that are trying to discredit those discussing politely. How about joining in the discussion politely instead of just saying it is whining as it conflicts with your views, eh?
Sorry, no. There’s just no more discussion to be had about it.
And yes, it is whining. You have guys throwing tantrums and saying they’re quitting altogether because of it. People saying they’ll never do Living Story again because they’re just gonna take their ball and go back home to Orr. People crying about how some meanie in the PvP area killed them.
You don’t think a kite should be in the EB JP? Fine. That’s your point, you made it a while back, game over. Sadly for you, the devs disagree, and it’s their game. They want to have stuff like this in all areas of their game. If a kite being in Obsidian Sanctum is really just too much for you to handle, then you’re not contractually obligated to keep playing, you can just move on.
I hope the next living story has another achievement in the EB jp. It was so much fun when we worked as a team to overcome those camping at the top. It feels so rewarding to finally get the achievement.
I hope the next living story has another achievement in the EB jp. It was so much fun when we worked as a team to overcome those camping at the top. It feels so rewarding to finally get the achievement.
Thank you. This is why the kite is there. Some people like this type of play. Saying that no meta-achievement can include things player group B enjoys because Player Group A does not like them is selfish.
I hope the next living story has another achievement in the EB jp. It was so much fun when we worked as a team to overcome those camping at the top. It feels so rewarding to finally get the achievement.
Thank you. This is why the kite is there. Some people like this type of play. Saying that no meta-achievement can include things player group B enjoys because Player Group A does not like them is selfish.
I too enjoyed getting the kite and the Aetherblade cache at the OS. However, it would be cool for everybody if the kite meta achievement required one less kite, so people would be able to pick one JP that they do not want to do (like the OS) and they would only have one less achievement instead of two. You know, like they did with the samples at Southsun Cove. Granted, people would still complain, but not being able to get two achievements is worse than not being able to get only one, right?
Also, removing LS content from WvW would not be fair for people that, like me, love it. I mean, ONE achievement requiring PvP while most of them are PvE related is not game breaking.
Sorry, no. There’s just no more discussion to be had about it.
And yes, it is whining. You have guys throwing tantrums and saying they’re quitting altogether because of it. People saying they’ll never do Living Story again because they’re just gonna take their ball and go back home to Orr. People crying about how some meanie in the PvP area killed them.
You don’t think a kite should be in the EB JP? Fine. That’s your point, you made it a while back, game over. Sadly for you, the devs disagree, and it’s their game. They want to have stuff like this in all areas of their game. If a kite being in Obsidian Sanctum is really just too much for you to handle, then you’re not contractually obligated to keep playing, you can just move on.
I guess you already have the achievement, my advice is, if you aren’t providing feedback on something you are actually experiencing keep quiet. Because while you may not be having difficulties with these things other players are, and it isn’t because of lack of coordination, or levels, or gear, etc. Its because of a mechanic that encourages players to camp a specific point for the sole reason of preventing other players from attaining a time sensitive achievement.
This is the basic definition of harassing and griefing.
I hope the next living story has another achievement in the EB jp. It was so much fun when we worked as a team to overcome those camping at the top. It feels so rewarding to finally get the achievement.
Thank you. This is why the kite is there. Some people like this type of play. Saying that no meta-achievement can include things player group B enjoys because Player Group A does not like them is selfish.
I too enjoyed getting the kite and the Aetherblade cache at the OS. However, it would be cool for everybody if the kite meta achievement required one less kite, so people would be able to pick one JP that they do not want to do (like the OS) and they would only have one less achievement instead of two. You know, like they did with the samples at Southsun Cove. Granted, people would still complain, but not being able to get two achievements is worse than not being able to get only one, right?
Also, removing LS content from WvW would not be fair for people that, like me, love it. I mean, ONE achievement requiring PvP while most of them are PvE related is not game breaking.
I can agree with that in principle, divorced from an understanding of what’s happening in the rest of the game. However, players who prefer WvW and dislike PvE are much more disadvantaged by the meta achievements as a rule than the PvE-only people.
In this case, it takes 6 PvE kites and 1 WvW kite to get the meta. If a PvE-only player ignores World v. Kite, he’s out 20 points. If a WvW-only player ignores the PvE kites he’s out 45.
I think for all future Living Story Meta achievements, a full 1/3 of them must be WvW, another 1/3 PvP, and the last 1/3 PvE.
Once they have implemented this new fair system no one will have any good reason to complain because all segments will be treated equally, right?
(Please note that this is a satirical post meant to illustrate the bizarre nature of current complaints about a single achievement requiring participation in 1/3 of the game and no achievements at all in another 1/3 of the game.)
@up and then PvE-only players would cry that their cannot get 2/3 of the achievements…
the problem is – thera are alwys somebody that will cry and hate system…
Sorry, no. There’s just no more discussion to be had about it.
And yes, it is whining. You have guys throwing tantrums and saying they’re quitting altogether because of it. People saying they’ll never do Living Story again because they’re just gonna take their ball and go back home to Orr. People crying about how some meanie in the PvP area killed them.
You don’t think a kite should be in the EB JP? Fine. That’s your point, you made it a while back, game over. Sadly for you, the devs disagree, and it’s their game. They want to have stuff like this in all areas of their game. If a kite being in Obsidian Sanctum is really just too much for you to handle, then you’re not contractually obligated to keep playing, you can just move on.
I guess you already have the achievement, my advice is, if you aren’t providing feedback on something you are actually experiencing keep quiet. Because while you may not be having difficulties with these things other players are, and it isn’t because of lack of coordination, or levels, or gear, etc. Its because of a mechanic that encourages players to camp a specific point for the sole reason of preventing other players from attaining a time sensitive achievement.
This is the basic definition of harassing and griefing.
I have the achievement too. I hate PvP. I dislike WvW. I was choked out of the JP three times in a row during multiple divergent times of day. When I finally did get it I did so by powering through enemy campers who still killed me seconds after I got close enough to the kite to get the achievement anyway.
I did it solo, every time. If you aren’t able to do it yourself, it’s because of a lack on your side, not because of a design flaw in the game, nor the area. ANet has actually taken great pains to fix the major design flaws. The best thing they did was prevent people from using seige weapons in the puzzle. It is now fair, completely fair. One person has no hope of clearing campers, but a sufficiently powerful and coordinated counter group can, no matter where they are.
You’re not providing anything to the conversation by saying, “Don’t comment if you disagree with me.” I disagree with you. I have the same difficulties and deficiencies as you. I still succeeded against the odds because I was determined. Therefore you have no valid argument.
(edited by Kal Spiro.9745)
@up and then PvE-only players would cry that their cannot get 2/3 of the achievements…
the problem is – thera are alwys somebody that will cry and hate system…
Fact is, some PvE only players are already upset that a single achievement that is not required for the meta is available only through WvW interaction. Being upset over that is beyond childish when you consider that while PvE only players can get the meta, WvW and PvP only players CANNOT get the meta at all.
I’ve got every single achievement for this event because I participated in every aspect of the game.
If you want to be a PvE only player then you need to simply grow up and come to terms with the fact that you are personally limiting yourself to PvE only achievements. Take some satisfaction knowing that 80% of the achievements in the game are PvE and leave the WvW and PvP players alone!
@up and then PvE-only players would cry that their cannot get 2/3 of the achievements…
the problem is – thera are alwys somebody that will cry and hate system…Fact is, some PvE only players are already upset that a single achievement that is not required for the meta is available only through WvW interaction. Being upset over that is beyond childish when you consider that while PvE only players can get the meta, WvW and PvP only players CANNOT get the meta at all.
I’ve got every single achievement for this event because I participated in every aspect of the game.
If you want to be a PvE only player then you need to simply grow up and come to terms with the fact that you are personally limiting yourself to PvE only achievements. Take some satisfaction knowing that 80% of the achievements in the game are PvE and leave the WvW and PvP players alone!
This is a +1
On top of that, you can also take the option to simply suffer through something you don’t enjoy, but do it knowing it wasn’t meant for you in the first place.
I ran the puzzle last night without any problem on Sanctum of Rall. There were some invaders at the end, but they weren’t camping, just hanging out or trying to get the chest themselves. I /wave’d and they didn’t attack until I tried to resurrect a nearby fallen ally – even then it was just one guy, he only stunned me then /disagree’d and left it at that, so I assumed the guy I was trying to revive deserved it, went on to get the kite and even the achievement for the first time.
Their is already a thread on this…obviously you whiners want even more attention by feeling the need to make your own thread about it…and hey look at that you got it no need to complain bc you couldn’t get it immediately bc it was an actual achievement you had to try for
Revel Heart I understand. I’m in the same boat. Twice I have attempted to complete it and twice I have gotten killed by 2-3 Tarnished Coast players in arena.
TWICE?! Woah. Put this man up for a Congressional Medal of Honor for his dedication and bravery. Twice. Wow.
I was up there on my mesmer the other day getting some other pve’s up and its funny after I dropped the portal and got some people up. They would just stand there and /dance and thank me in chat, doing other emotes, wasting time. And I am like “HURRY get it while you can you don’t know when you will get attacked”. No sooner than I hit enter button some uncloaked and knocked half the lot off the edge.
Then I get the whispers from mad people who fell off, that should have went straight to the kite when they had the chance. Ty’s should be done after the reason for saying it had been accomplished and getting kitten ed at me for your failure to move was not my fault.
I have the same difficulties and deficiencies as you. I still succeeded against the odds because I was determined. Therefore you have no valid argument.
This does not mean as much as you claim. When I got the achievment, there were people camping the spawn point. Getting past these campers was fairly easy because all I really needed to do was run past them while they were distracted by players from another server.
However, at the same time, I have experience with camping the arena with a necro wearing level 25, mostly blue and white gear and keeping multiple people down there with little danger to myself. The only reason those players ever got up was because I stopped doing it after being disgusted with how easy it is.
What does this tell us? Circumstances are everything. Just because you finished while there are campers does not mean it’ll be just as easy for everyone else.
This kite is ridiculous. There were 3 of us from Dragonbrand going up and working together to get the kite and when we made it up to the top we were ganked by 3 people from Tarnished Coast. We were all killed and then they proceeded to jump on our corpses and do other insulting things to us. I decided to wait for someone from Dragonbrand to come by to give me a res, but when someone made it the campers just killed them too. They have been camping there for over an hour now and show no sign of leaving. People just have NO HOPE of completing this meta event when there are campers at the kite… At least just for this event, for one week, everyone should be friendly at this JP. This is ridiculous. I completed what I was supposed to complete and I am literally within feet of the kite, but because someone decided to be a jerk I don’t get to get my Gift of Crystal Quartz? I have 14/16 achievements and am thinking that this is going to be impossible because of campers.
I don’t know if anyone else thought of this but while it is still in my very sad brain;
Why can’t ANET put a barrier around ANY WvW area that has to do with achievements but ONLY for those who HAVE THE ACHIEVEMENT.
I don’t mind dukeing it out with others who haven’t gotten the achievement, ok, I get that, but why would anyone camp when they know they will be stopped or warned?
This game was supposed to be with camping – our game is supposed to be better than the rest of the sorry games that allow unfair practices by its players.
Sorry, no. There’s just no more discussion to be had about it.
And yes, it is whining. You have guys throwing tantrums and saying they’re quitting altogether because of it. People saying they’ll never do Living Story again because they’re just gonna take their ball and go back home to Orr. People crying about how some meanie in the PvP area killed them.
You don’t think a kite should be in the EB JP? Fine. That’s your point, you made it a while back, game over. Sadly for you, the devs disagree, and it’s their game. They want to have stuff like this in all areas of their game. If a kite being in Obsidian Sanctum is really just too much for you to handle, then you’re not contractually obligated to keep playing, you can just move on.
So basically because of one JP people should just quit the game? No…I’ve been playing since beta, jumped into headstart and have purchased too many gems for me to bare thinking about. I enjoy and am passionate about this game, and yes I don’t agree with having a kite in the Obsidium Sanctum, however it would be pretty non-sensical to ‘move on’ from the game just because of that.
This isn’t ANet’s fault in entirety, it’s the people who just lack common decency really.
I have the same difficulties and deficiencies as you. I still succeeded against the odds because I was determined. Therefore you have no valid argument.
This does not mean as much as you claim. When I got the achievment, there were people camping the spawn point. Getting past these campers was fairly easy because all I really needed to do was run past them while they were distracted by players from another server.
However, at the same time, I have experience with camping the arena with a necro wearing level 25, mostly blue and white gear and keeping multiple people down there with little danger to myself. The only reason those players ever got up was because I stopped doing it after being disgusted with how easy it is.
What does this tell us? Circumstances are everything. Just because you finished while there are campers does not mean it’ll be just as easy for everyone else.
You missed the point entirely. I happened to get through campers on my third attempt. The first two I just stopped and quit because they killed me. Then I came back and tried it again. And again. It isn’t my ability to get through campers that got me the achievement, because clearly I don’t have one. I got it on accident because I didn’t actually know where the kite was and happened to move in that direction while running from a camper. But I got it because I kept trying, instead of whining about people killing me while I participated in something I wasn’t good and don’t enjoy in an area where the point is to kill people to prevent them from getting the reward at the end.
It’s not supposed to be easy. But if you care so much about it, you have only yourself to blame if you don’t get it. I will say, though, that I was disappointed that the kite meta doesn’t count toward the living story meta.
Your complaint is that you don’t want to do the content in the way they specifically designed it. That you don’t want to feel like you have to do it, even though you don’t, and that you want to get the reward without playing in the manner they designed the area to be played as. That is whining.
No, this!
bovinity divinity! aisling, from jq … how DARE you contradict me! (tongue-in-cheek here)
actually, i really don’t have an issue with the achievements being put in pvp land. as someone else mentioned — when it’s an “even” playing field where people can actually challenge each other, and be challenged, as in the sanctum sprint, i’m cool with that. my problem comes with the fact that, as has been pointed out, the achievements being put in os DO encourage griefing.
i was a guild leader on a pvp server in wow for about three years. been there, done all that, so on and so on. i’m cool with pvp being an integral part of play, for many folk. have no problem with it a’tall. but the nature of that particular puzzle, and the ocd nature of achievement kittens like me, just means we end up with a situation where griefers have ample opportunity to flex their griefing muscles and slaughter tons of wee little carebare pve bunnies. that, to me, is a design flaw, and THAT is what i’d love to see addressed.
so. given that, i’d welcome SUGGESTIONS for how this may be circumvented!
Why it the use of overwhelming position, tactics, and personel griefing? Especially in WvW, which the JP is. Does that mean every time a zerg takes a keep, or more importantly defends one successfully they’re griefing? I mean all the enemy players want is the reward of owning that keep, why is someone getting in their way?
This is not just PvP, it’s WvW. This is how the game is played. They position themselves to stop you. If you don’t want to be stopped you need to have the support necessary to do something about it. If you can’t, too bad.
If they go and stick an achievement location inside an sPvP made then you can complain about the PvP aspects. This isn’t sPvP, it’s open world combat.
Your complaint is that you don’t want to do the content in the way they specifically designed it. That you don’t want to feel like you have to do it, even though you don’t, and that you want to get the reward without playing in the manner they designed the area to be played as. That is whining.
No, this!
bovinity divinity! aisling, from jq … how DARE you contradict me! (tongue-in-cheek here)
actually, i really don’t have an issue with the achievements being put in pvp land. as someone else mentioned — when it’s an “even” playing field where people can actually challenge each other, and be challenged, as in the sanctum sprint, i’m cool with that. my problem comes with the fact that, as has been pointed out, the achievements being put in os DO encourage griefing.
i was a guild leader on a pvp server in wow for about three years. been there, done all that, so on and so on. i’m cool with pvp being an integral part of play, for many folk. have no problem with it a’tall. but the nature of that particular puzzle, and the ocd nature of achievement kittens like me, just means we end up with a situation where griefers have ample opportunity to flex their griefing muscles and slaughter tons of wee little carebare pve bunnies. that, to me, is a design flaw, and THAT is what i’d love to see addressed.
so. given that, i’d welcome SUGGESTIONS for how this may be circumvented!
The only flaw here is the belief that you should be able to obtain WvW achievements by doing PvE.
In PvE, denial of reward is griefing. In WvW, denial of reward is the sole objective. You must prevent them from obtaining the reward because that is how you obtain the reward.
If you are opposed to this concept, stay out of WvW and write off those achievements as “unobtainable due to self imposed restrictions on content”.
Why it the use of overwhelming position, tactics, and personel griefing? Especially in WvW, which the JP is. Does that mean every time a zerg takes a keep, or more importantly defends one successfully they’re griefing? I mean all the enemy players want is the reward of owning that keep, why is someone getting in their way?
This is not just PvP, it’s WvW. This is how the game is played. They position themselves to stop you. If you don’t want to be stopped you need to have the support necessary to do something about it. If you can’t, too bad.
If they go and stick an achievement location inside an sPvP made then you can complain about the PvP aspects. This isn’t sPvP, it’s open world combat.
first of all, mtpelion, your view does not coincide with my view; you’re, in my mind, oversimplifying something, so i’m just going to let your statement rest.
kal, i think you ask honestly, so i’ll give you the most honest answer i can give — understand, it’s MY answer, and i don’t think it should suffice for anyone else, unless they state their agreement with it.
back in wowland, if a level 60 geared player went to a starter zone and repeatedly killed a level 10ish player (yeah, this is back in vanilla days, lol!), i considered that griefing. it was a simple statement of “i can because i’m better than you are.” if you’ll go back through this barrage of comments back and forth, you’ll find another player who essentially stated the same thing. “i can. i’m better than you. it’s fun.”
when you put a “living story” achievement in a wvw zone, and that living story achievement paves the way to a meta achievement (with or without title, etc), you’re going to have people like me who must have it, because our silly little ocd brains won’t conceive of our NOT having it. you, and others, state that all we have to do is go into the wvw portion of the map, or out of the jp map, and ask for help.
i’m on jade quarry. LOVE that server. love the people there; we have, in my opinion, some of the best, most knowledgeable, and helpful people around. i’ve been here since the betas, and i wouldn’t dream of going anywhere else. i am also aware that we’ve recently sunk down to T2 in wvw … we were T1 for a LONG time. this means that we have a lot of good, dedicated players who participate in wvw. here’s how i interpret that — these players are out capturing keeps, taking objectives, and increasing our server’s benefits — my benefits. what i want affects only me. i will not, under any circumstances, ask for them to come save my cute little hiney because some jerks see an opportunity to flex their “better-than-you” muscles and make it difficult for me to capture an objective. when i was in wow, playing on one of my lower level characters, i had a choice in the open world — keep dying until the idiot got more tired of killing me than i was of dying, or go get one of my own higher level characters and take them on in 1v1, which is of course what they wanted in the first place. most often? i just stayed there, dead, on the ground, until they left.
again, if it were a situation where skill counted, not a situation where a few can restrict the movements of a couple? i wouldn’t complain. if it were a situation where it wasn’t so obvious these are doing it just because they “can,” i don’t think i’d have an issue. but the situation, as it exists, in my mind, promotes griefing. it promotes the ability of those few idiot pvpers who have to slaughter pve bunnies in order to feel superior, gives them an easy outlet for it, and that’s something i’d really love the designers to reconsider. in my opinion, it is outside the scope of what arenanet has promoted, thus far, in this game.
just my opinion ;-)
(edited by Isende.2607)
I’m not oversimplifying things, I’m pointing out that they are very simple.
The WvW achieve requires WvW interaction. WvW interaction is based around denial of reward. The WvW achieve is not required for the meta.
Ergo, you should only attempt the WvW achieve if you are willing to participate in WvW (which means dealing with people who are intent on denying you access to your goal by whatever means necessary).
Like you, I don’t enjoy WvW because it is about denial of reward (what you are incorrectly calling “griefing”, an exclusively PvE term). Like you, I want all of the achievements. Unlike you I’m not asking that WvW players be denied their enjoyment of WvW so that I can obtain a WvW achievement without participating in WvW.
agree with post @Isende
I’m not oversimplifying things, I’m pointing out that they are very simple.
The WvW achieve requires WvW interaction. WvW interaction is based around denial of reward. The WvW achieve is not required for the meta.
Ergo, you should only attempt the WvW achieve if you are willing to participate in WvW (which means dealing with people who are intent on denying you access to your goal by whatever means necessary).
Like you, I don’t enjoy WvW because it is about denial of reward (what you are incorrectly calling “griefing”, an exclusively PvE term). Like you, I want all of the achievements. Unlike you I’m not asking that WvW players be denied their enjoyment of WvW so that I can obtain a WvW achievement without participating in WvW.
I would agree with you if, and only if, the Jumping Puzzle had a keep that a server could hold. Because there is no keep, there is little incentive for your server to come defend it.
When you say out to your server that an opposing server is taking so-and-so keep/tower, they can come to help. They come, because it is the goal of WvW. However, there is no benefit for the server if everyone came help out in a JP. Therefore, it doesn’t fit in well with WvW. (Same thing goes for Skill Points in WvW maps. Luckily, people do not camp skill points to gank people trying to finish map completion)
again, if it were a situation where skill counted, not a situation where a few can restrict the movements of a couple? i wouldn’t complain. if it were a situation where it wasn’t so obvious these are doing it just because they “can,” i don’t think i’d have an issue. but the situation, as it exists, in my mind, promotes griefing. it promotes the ability of those few idiot pvpers who have to slaughter pve bunnies in order to feel superior, gives them an easy outlet for it, and that’s something i’d really love the designers to reconsider. in my opinion, it is outside the scope of what arenanet has promoted, thus far, in this game.
just my opinion ;-)
Dunno, that’s just how I view open world PvP. That is how it works. If you see other people, they are probably kittens and out to ruin your day. That’s why they’re there in the first place.
The benefit of WvW over open world PvP servers is that you can leave and continue to play the game. I absolutely do not subscribe to going to the other WvW zones and begging people to come help clear out a rival server. I say stop, leave, and come back later.
Unlike your situation with the guy in WoW you don’t have to stop playing the character you’re playing in order to avoid the PvP. You can just go somewhere else. That’s how I got it.
Also, the Kite meta doesn’t give a thing, it’s just there. It doesn’t even contribute to the event meta. As such the only thing you miss out on is the 15 or whatever points of the kite meta and the 1 or so of the JP kite. If all you want is the event prize there are more than enough achievements available to never even approach subjecting yourself to anything that even hints at PvP.
lol — kal, you obviously don’t suffer from the ocd that drives achievement gathering. good for you!
yes, we know, it doesn’t contribute to the overall. but it’s THERE. it EXISTS. therefore, our little ocd-driven brains insist, it must be gotten!
here’s another think to think about — and you and i obviously do have differing views on griefing. to me, anyone who does what these idiots do just because they “can” are griefers, they’re not relying on skill to take an opponent, they’re relying on dummies like me with this flawed ocd thing for achievements to come give them a feeling of superiority. for what it’s worth, i enjoy pvp when it’s skill vs skill, not the situation that exists in the sanctums. anyway.
we have, in our guild, two players who are 60+. one of these players is about the sweetest, kindest, most patient people i’ve ever had the fortune to encounter. anywhere. he also is afflicted with this ocd flaw … AND he sucks at jumping puzzles. he’s said, flat out, “my reflexes just aren’t what they used to be.”
yep. he, i, we can walk away. but until you’re afflicted with this ocd thing? don’t think you can understand it.
my point stands. this situation encourages those who don’t rely on skill to fulfill their “i’m-better-than-you” sense of superiority. the majority of pvpers i know don’t waste their time camping this — they’ve got far more important stuff to do, against far more viable opponents, then camp these points and wait for we little flawed pve bunnies to come try and get these achievements.
I would agree with you if, and only if, the Jumping Puzzle had a keep that a server could hold. Because there is no keep, there is little incentive for your server to come defend it.
When you say out to your server that an opposing server is taking so-and-so keep/tower, they can come to help. They come, because it is the goal of WvW. However, there is no benefit for the server if everyone came help out in a JP. Therefore, it doesn’t fit in well with WvW. (Same thing goes for Skill Points in WvW maps. Luckily, people do not camp skill points to gank people trying to finish map completion)
this made me think. first of all, to me, “living story” is, by and far, more a pve element than a pvp element. but that’s just me. however. if they want to get people to experience wvw, then putting something in a keep, where those people actually got to experience true wvw would be a lot more sensible than putting it in a situation like the obsidian sanctum, where griefing is so easily done. i wouldn’t necessarily LIKE that it was in what i considered a pvp area, but i do occasionally wvw, and quite like it, because it feels a lot more strategic and skill-based. so i’d do it, and not bat an eyelakitten it.
if their goal is to get people to experience wvw, then let’s maybe consider changing the venue. put it next to one of the hard-to-reach vistas in a keep, perhaps? make it a real challenge, that showcases wvw rather than what currently exists.
just another think.
yep. he, i, we can walk away. but until you’re afflicted with this ocd thing? don’t think you can understand it.
Oh I understand, I just managed to break the spell. Back during windersday when I realized just how bad I am at every sPvP mini game they make and therefore could never get all of the achievements that existed I gave up and stopped trying to get them. Otherwise, if I have a chance I’ll still subject myself to it. I’m just not willing to blame other people for playing the way the area is designed to be played.
To me a griefer is not someone who does something because they can. A griefer is someone whose purpose is to ruin your day. This is why griefing is something that exists outside of PvP, because the general PvP mentality is exactly that. You’re a dualist, you want to test your skill against someone else. I can respect that and understand, but to me a PvPer just wants to kill everyone where ever they can.
WvW is a cluster kitten, it’s not PvP, not really. It’s barely even world PvP, it’s just a cluster. In the JP, PvPers with a PvP mentality can have their open world PvP where nothing is of conciquence and the only objective is to ruin someones day. So, the key remains, avoid them. Leave the zone, go do something else, come back later and hope they’re gone or that your side has replaced them.
I think what people are missing is that the ‘whining’ isn’t about not getting an achievment, or it not being ‘easy’ to get. As far as I can tell from my reading no one has done a whiny “Is tooo haaaarddd” post.
What is being said, is that this particular achivement lends itself especially well to groups of players actively and deliberately being…unpleasant… to the players trying to reach the objective.
Having a difficult objective is one thing, everyone groks that sometimes getting the goodies will be hard. But having an objective where attempting to reach it is going to make you a target for large groups of people who’ve decided that being snots about keeping you out is the way to go**… that just sucks rocks through a twisty straw, and it would be Very Nice if ANet kept that in mind the next time they put a general achivement in a PvP or WvW area.
**Edited to add: With the well made point above, that while keeping somone from a goal is part of the point of WwV, there’s no actual WvW benefit to this particular area.
(edited by Eleri Tezhme.3048)
Maybe give it another try now that the new events are out – there might be less people in there. I gave it 1 try a while back got killed a few times and gave up. Gave it another shot the morning after Cutthroat politics came out and it was completely empty!
Good luck
**Edited to add: With the well made point above, that while keeping somone from a goal is part of the point of WwV, there’s no actual WvW benefit to this particular area.
In fact it was a detriment to WvW Eternal Borderlands to have so many people only interested in trolling easy kills in a JP, resulting in queues for those who wished to enter EB and actually play WvW as intended. It is my understanding that had some bearing on why it isn’t an actual part of EB and has its own map now.
Several options here:
1) Just remove WvW reward points etc from this zone as well as from the chest, and you’ll surely notice a steady decline in the ‘groups’ camping (since there is no reward for it, with the only exception of making other people feel bad).
2) Alternatively, what I always do is shout in WvW if there are people interested in going into the puzzle, often leading to a group of 4-8 people. We then team up and go through the puzzle together as a group. When we encounter an enemy group it depends on the enemy. If they attack one of us, they get (very often) killed. If they leave us alone, we leave them alone.
3) As a final option: dominate the EB battle on your realm! This to ensure that no reinforcements can come into the puzzle through their keeps, since you already own them!
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.