Guild Wars 2

I have really enjoyed the Bazaar and the subsequent “campaigns,” and the area itself is very fun and interesting. I hope it sticks around. My only real complaint is that I do not like it when general content is locked behind a jumping puzzle.

To be clear: I have no problem with jumping achievements and even jumping rewards. I’m also no slouch at jumping puzzles, so it isn’t that I can’t do any of the simpler ones. (I even got 40 sky crystals, which I have no issue with either.)

What I mean is that you cannot reach the top of the bazaar or cast any votes without first completing a jumping puzzle. When the content first started, I died multiple times on the first “air” jump (something I still do occasionally) and gave up. It was days before I bothered to go back (after reading more about it online) and I found the content to be MUCH more enjoyable once I’d finally gotten the second waypoint.

I took some time off GW2 and missed a few events, so I don’t know how often this happens. But it reminds me of the Mad King’s dungeon way back in October, and how the boss fight itself was a huge jumping puzzle, and how frustrating that was. The dev response at the time was basically: oh, we didn’t realize it was a jumping puzzle. I have to think this attitude hasn’t changed. My impression is that the content designers – who are probably so good at jumping puzzles they can do them in their sleep – don’t even think about minor jumping challenges as jumping puzzles. But they are. (I’d suggest anything that requires jumping and punishes you with death is a jumping puzzle.) And while clearly “jumping puzzle” is one of the core philosophies of GW2 game design, like PvP and dungeon running, it’s frustrating when content that is supposed to be for everyone is locked behind one, as “simple” as it may seem. Just like some people don’t PvP or play dungeons, not everyone wants to do jumping puzzles.

Otherwise I’m loving it and I’m interested in seeing more of the Living World design!

You have to do a jumping puzzle to get to the votes?

(looks at the map)

Eh? Where is that?

(looks again)

Ok, yeah, you lost me here. Not sure where this jumping puzzle is that’s required to get up there.

Unless you mean the “here’s a waterfall to show you how to use one ability, and some lightning rods to show you how to use the other” stuff?

This is pretty much my point. I’m glad you’re so good at the game that you don’t even think of getting to the top of the bazaar as a jumping puzzle. I’m not talking about people like you. I’m also not interested in debating the semantics of “jumping puzzle.” The way I am using it, if you have to jump around and the penalty for failing a jump is death, that’s pretty much a jumping puzzle. If it offends you to hear something so “simple” called a jumping puzzle, then please find/replace “jumping puzzle” with “tricky jumps that cause death when you miss them” in my post. The message is the same.

When I was really hung over, and on a new character trying to get to the top, I just used the lightning’s tp power to get across that part :p Can slowly tp to each platform at your leisure.

This is pretty much my point. I’m glad you’re so good at the game that you don’t even think of getting to the top of the bazaar as a jumping puzzle. I’m not talking about people like you. I’m also not interested in debating the semantics of “jumping puzzle.” The way I am using it, if you have to jump around and the penalty for failing a jump is death, that’s pretty much a jumping puzzle. If it offends you to hear something so “simple” called a jumping puzzle, then please find/replace “jumping puzzle” with “tricky jumps that cause death when you miss them” in my post. The message is the same.

If that’s a “jumping puzzle” then I’m going to start calling everything a “walking puzzle”.

Why is there a walking puzzle over here?! I walked the wrong way and didn’t get to the end! I know some people are good at walking, but there’s a cliff right there, it’s a really tricky walking puzzle!

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

When I was really hung over, and on a new character trying to get to the top, I just used the lightning’s tp power to get across that part :p Can slowly tp to each platform at your leisure.

That.

If you use that method you never have to make a single “normal” (or wind-assisted in this case) jump. And there’s virtually no risk of dying unless the skill bugs out.

This is a semantic issue of the term “jumping puzzle”, but the game DOES include jumping and vertical movement requirements (and always HAS since ANet first started talking about GW2). Not sure why it upsets so many players that you may actually be required to “jump”.

My only issue with the JPs is the gawd-awful auto-zoom camera in tight spaces and when facing a wall. It’s the single most frustrating thing about GW2, IMO.

Brother Grimm.5176:

This is a semantic issue of the term “jumping puzzle”, but the game DOES include jumping and vertical movement requirements (and always HAS since ANet first started talking about GW2). Not sure why it upsets so many players that you may actually be required to “jump”.

That’s true as well. Jumping is a part of GW2 as a whole, not just a side-feature to throw in on occasion, so the idea that it can ONLY be used in actual jumping puzzles and can’t be used anywhere else in the world is a bit silly.

I’d agree that difficult jumps should be kept to proper JP’s, but the jumps up Zephyr Sanctum aren’t hard at all. It might take a bit of practice to get used to the skill, but after that all it is, is just 4 jumps in a line with ample room for you to jump too early or too late and still make the leap. And if you really can’t do them (probably more due to skill lag problems) then there’s an easy alternative in the lightning skill.

arabeth.2361:

This is pretty much my point. I’m glad you’re so good at the game that you don’t even think of getting to the top of the bazaar as a jumping puzzle. I’m not talking about people like you. I’m also not interested in debating the semantics of “jumping puzzle.” The way I am using it, if you have to jump around and the penalty for failing a jump is death, that’s pretty much a jumping puzzle. If it offends you to hear something so “simple” called a jumping puzzle, then please find/replace “jumping puzzle” with “tricky jumps that cause death when you miss them” in my post. The message is the same.

I understand what you’re saying. But many things in the regular content that is supposed to be available to everyone, requires a bit of “tricky jump”, and many will definitely cause death (vistas, for example, includes lots of jumps). In this case of the Labyrinth, it’s not the same. And I’m not saying this from the view of “I’m adequate enough at JPs that it didn’t even cross my mind that this is one”. The main difference in this is that there are the sun, wind, and lightning adepts right next to the places you have to jump, explaining to you exactly what needs to be done. (To my annoyance, quite a few players don’t bother reading at all, and just started to spam map chat complaining that they can’t get through the waterfall. But I know you’re not one of these people.) That makes this trek to the top a tutorial, which I believe was the intent, introducing you to the 3 aspect skills to navigate this place. You talk to the sun adept, you dash through 3 waterfalls. Wind adept -> a few jumps. Lightning -> a few tethered pulls. At this point, you have reached the top WP.

And this area content that you want to access (sky crystals, best dive ever, Sanctum Sprint, and later Aspect Arena) all involve the use of the aspect skills. If using the skills to get to the top WP turns people away, chances are they’re not gonna enjoy the rest of the content either.

I myself died a few times trying to do this. But if I had a beef with anything, it’s the collecting of sky crystals, which killed me 100 times more, costing a lot of WP money. Fortunately they made up for it as Sanctum Sprint was so profitable.

My 2 cents.

Then I guess you dont get to vote. Jumping puzzles are a big part of GW2. If you cant do them, then learn to, or play a different game. Instead of trying to change the game, maybe change yourself, or realize its not a game for you.

If you cannot press 2 to get past the waterfall, or 1 to jump on a platform, then you might want to stay away from GW1 where Kaineng City was a maze.

Oh hey, look at this jumping “puzzle”!

As I said before, I am SO HAPPY for all of you who are so amazingly good at the game that something as “trivial” as having a difficult time getting to the top of the bazaar is a cause for scorn. You all win the internet. Congratulations. Please: post more screen shots and tell me more about how I’m wrong and how I should quit the game because I am not as good as you. I’m sure your comments will convince me and win you double the internet in prizes.

Thanks, nekodoken, for being a human being. And thanks for the actual help, hidden amongst the rudeness, that you can get a lightning pull and use it to get across that first air jump part. I’ll use that advice for sure if I ever try to get an alt up there, since I still occasionally miss the jump (again: from someone who got 40 crystals and did the gryphon nest jumping puzzle in one try).

Other than the server glitching during lightning pulls, I think my main complaint would have gone away if you couldn’t die on the air jump tutorial area. Like the sun dash part (and yes, you can fall off that, too), where if you fall you just take damage and can start over, it would have been much less annoying if the punishment for missing a brand new interaction in the game was not death. Given how much ground you lose and the monetary penalty of the waypoint fee, failing this multiple times initially turned me off to the whole content – which was completely unnecessary and could have been a lot less frustrating with a simple change. This was my entire point (which predictably was ignored). Jumping puzzles are fine. Jumping for achievements is fine. Jumping puzzles to access normal content is frustrating.

arabeth.2361:

Thanks, nekodoken, for being a human being. And thanks for the actual help, hidden amongst the rudeness, that you can get a lightning pull and use it to get across that first air jump part. I’ll use that advice for sure if I ever try to get an alt up there, since I still occasionally miss the jump (again: from someone who got 40 crystals and did the gryphon nest jumping puzzle in one try).

I consider it common decency to be civil to anyone simply expressing opinions that they are completely free and entitled to do. I’d give any jerk a piece of my mind, but I didn’t get that from you arabeth.

I do think you have a good point. Perhaps next time they introduce some new skills to navigate a zone, they should make it so you wouldn’t die during the tutorial. For example, if you rolled off the cliff during the first 3 waterfalls you get an option to come back to the sun adept, death during the jump come back to the wind adept, and lightning too.

I don’t disagree that the monetary penalty for falling is a bit harsh, but you are seriously making WAY too big deal of this. Nobody should be rude to you and tell you to quit the game for stating your opinion / complaint, but pointing out that “jumping” is part of this game is not being rude….it’s just pointing out a fact that seem to ignore.

We get that you don’t like the content due to the jumping aspect. However, stating it should not exist for “ease of use” reasons is going to generate some harsh responses in your direction (because it’s unreasonable).

kitten these message boards and their clicking puzzles!

Anet did what they said they would not do. They have gated core content behind, essentially, jumping puzzles. Many people enjoy JP’s and platforming in general. Others detest it. The key here is that the MMO is not about platforming at core and since you have a diverse player base you don’t gate content (and the living story/world) by a niche feature.

I’m not taking part in the living story because I don’t do platformers. It was a bad decision. I hope that this release represents the past in terms of Colin’s blog. This is exactly the problem we need to move away from and towards a permanent, evolving, living world.

Raine.1394:

The key here is that the MMO is not about platforming at core and since you have a diverse player base you don’t gate content (and the living story/world) by a niche feature.

This is GW2, not “the MMO”.

You don’t get to limit what the core of the game is or isn’t based on your own preferences.

The lightning skill can be used to get all the way to the top without ever hitting the spacebar or worrying about the whole “jumping” aspect of a “jumping puzzle”.

I tried to sympathize with you but I’m sorry, I can’t. Pressing 1 and then pressing W is not a puzzle. If you couldn’t make this jump due to lag, then I see your complaint, but this is in no way, shape, and/or form, a puzzle.

I agree this was no puzzle and using your example this is coming from someone who actually had a good bit of trouble with the griffon JP. As for falling off with the sun you can just click 2 again after you pass the waterfall to cancel the effect before you fly off the edge. Use the lightning to get past the wind part although it isn’t that difficult to use wind for a few close by platforms. (Do Sekket’s Lab in Caledon and then tell me these platforms are a pain.) Then just stand at the lightning and get auto thrown across the gaps.

I know you’re just going to respond to me with, “I know it’s easy for you but not for me” but the fact of the matter is this isn’t WoW or like other MMOs. Not every quest giver or person will be laying on a flat area for you to run too and talk too. There’s vertical AND horizontal movement and it makes the game much more interesting, just like being able to dodge and move in combat, another feature not common to many MMOs. It’s what makes the game unique and if you don’t like that then there’s plenty other MMO’s that may suit your interests.