Guild Wars 2

The worst part of the latest patch. Is the sudden price hike to move Runes/Sigils.

Prepatch: 50 Gems, Transmution Crystal ($0.62 cents)

Postpatch: 250 Gems, Extractor ($3.12 dollars)

How is this acceptable?

People are trying to pretend this is only about the Karma/WvW Armor fiasco, it is not. (Or suggest using a Black Lion Salvage kit which is IMPOSSIBLE to do with Karma/WvW Gear.) There is a very clear 200 Gems price hike to move Runes/Sigils. Not gold, but GEMS.

People who support Anet by buying Gems with $£€¥ are being charged 200 Gems more to retain the same functionality they paid 50 Gems for before. Now being charged 250 Gems.

If you put your runes/sigils in salvageable items, you can actually do it for 12 gems. Black Lion Salvage Kit ensures you get the upgrade back, and is no more destructive than transmuting to move the Rune. You’ll even likely get a few ecto/dark matter from exotics.

Da Sonic.6521:

If you put your runes/sigils in salvageable items, you can actually do it for 12 gems. Black Lion Salvage Kit ensures you get the upgrade back, and is no more destructive than transmuting to move the Rune. You’ll even likely get a few ecto/dark matter from exotics.

So if your Divinity/Strength/Perplexity Runes or Bloodlust/Renewal Sigils are in Karma/WvW Gear then what?

You cannot salvage Karma/WvW Gear and so you are forced to buy an Extractor. Because the Transmuation Stone no longer exists.

The Black Lion Salvage kit does not work in this scenario, when for some people (Karma/WvW) it is impossible for them to do so. That is not a solution to the issue.

Something needs to be done about this possibly by making karma/WvW gear salvageable.

Karma and WvW gear needs to be salvageable, but just gives no Ectos/Dark Matter, as does Ascended armor/weapons. I have a Bloodlust & Force Sigil sitting on my Ascended Speargun because I made Frenzy the other day, with no reasonable way retrieve it.

We know Extractor is overpriced and is only useful for higher tier AR and Generosity sigil, so just don’t buy it.

I agree, just finished my ascended armor today and now i am not able to salvage my (very expensive) runes from my exotic armor and i don’t have the money to buy a new set. So that ascended armor will have to stay in my bank i suppose, what a waste.

Double D.9801:

I agree, just finished my ascended armor today and now i am not able to salvage my (very expensive) runes from my exotic armor

1 piece of Ascended armor likely cost more than an entire new rune set. Unless you mean something like Strength, then 2 pieces of armor. If you can’t afford more BIS runes again, why would you craft Ascended?

Flissy.4093:

1 piece of Ascended armor likely cost more than an entire new rune set. Unless you mean something like Strength, then 2 pieces of armor. If you can’t afford more BIS runes again, why would you craft Ascended?

Perhaps he used up all his money crafting said ascended armor and also wasn’t aware of this change. Seems like a logical and easy answer to come to.

250 gems for a single use extractor, you have 7 pieces of armor and between 1 and 4 active weapons.

If all you’re doing is moving runes to new armor pieces it’s going to cost you 1750 gems or as you calculated $21.84 for a full armor set.

Extractor should be a loot drop, it’s extremely limited in nature like harvesting tools and somehow those can drop from champ bags in queensdale but nowhere else in the game. It is overpriced for it’s use case and in most cases exceeds the cost of it’s own purpose. At this price there is absolutely no reason for it to exist.

Not only that but you may as well trade the gems for gold and buy the sigil/rune and have gold left over. It’s ridiculous.

You knew the risk of putting sigils and runes into gear you cannot salvage. Now you’re just paying the price (or not) of it. Also, this is something like thread #5 on this topic already.

Aidan Savage.2078:

You knew the risk of putting sigils and runes into gear you cannot salvage.

Except that no one did. Cause, you know, there was that big feature patch that changed how it all worked.

Aidan Savage.2078:

You knew the risk of putting sigils and runes into gear you cannot salvage. Now you’re just paying the price (or not) of it. Also, this is something like thread #5 on this topic already.

This is dumb.

We didnt know the risk because there was no risk.

Previously i could transmute my karma gear to another skin, other stats, other runes. I could change these much more freely with Transmutation crystals.

I’ve used Crystals myself to change the stats on karma gear because i wasnt satisfied with the build, but i liked the look and the runes. So i used a Crystals for that, worked fine.

Now however, i need to spend more gems to get that functionality back. Even if its just a black lion salvage kit, if i can salvage it.
I lost function on my Crystals that i bought, despite Crystals being more expensive then Charges, and now i have to pay again just to make up for the lost functionality.

I am in the process of trying to get a refund on the Crystals i bought, and i’d recommend everyone else who is dissatisfied to do the same.

They explained how the wardrobe worked. They said it was for changing skins. They said transmutation stones/crystals were going away. We didn’t do the addition and realize that by eliminating mixing two items together to reskin an item meant moving item stats and upgrade was also going away. We had nearly two weeks to realize this and either ask or take action on the upgrades we wanted to save.

Could the devs have explicitly relayed this change to the player base? Maybe. It’s also they may have been so focused on skinning items that they forgot or didn’t think it was as important as skinning.

Terrahero.9358:

Aidan Savage.2078:

You knew the risk of putting sigils and runes into gear you cannot salvage. Now you’re just paying the price (or not) of it. Also, this is something like thread #5 on this topic already.

This is dumb.

We didnt know the risk because there was no risk.

Transmuting the gear doesnt eliminate the risk you voluntarily accepted by putting runes and sigils into gear that can not be salvaged. Transmutation stones were YOUR (and others’) solution to bypass that risk.

Proposal: Unlimited use Upgrade Extractor

This device would cost 1500 gems, would be account bound, and would cost 10 gems per use.

Due to the big rune change I now have 5 Superior Runes of the Traveler sitting in Karma/WvW-Gear I cannot salvage (2×2 + underwater breather) and no reasonable way to extract those runes. Using the Upgrade Extractor would be insane with it costing ridiulous 250 gems. I could just go and exchange the gems for gold and buy new runes and still have gold left.
I was going to post something but it seems I am not the only one with this issue by far. I agree 100% with what has been said by Ashadow and Flissy. The easiest fix would be to make karma and wvw gear salvageable (without the chance to get ectos/dark matter). I would gladly buy a Black Lion Salvage Kit to get my runes this way…but no way I am going to pay 250 Gems for the extractor. :-/

Runes and sigils are such a massive gold sink right now.

It honestly baffles me how expensive it can be to gear up a new 80 and the new changes only made it worse.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Terrahero.9358:

Aidan Savage.2078:

You knew the risk of putting sigils and runes into gear you cannot salvage. Now you’re just paying the price (or not) of it. Also, this is something like thread #5 on this topic already.

This is dumb.

We didnt know the risk because there was no risk.

Transmuting the gear doesnt eliminate the risk you voluntarily accepted by putting runes and sigils into gear that can not be salvaged. Transmutation stones were YOUR (and others’) solution to bypass that risk.

What kind of nonsense logic is that?

There was no risk because i HAD a solution. I went into putting my runes into karma gear because i HAD my transmutation crystals.

If you had a reliable, viable and above all informed solution then there is no risk. And at this point i kitten well knew what i was doing.

Then this solution was removed. So what was my risk here? That arenanet would screw me over, and transform my Crystals into undeniably worst Charges? Seemingly thats the real risk we’re all running here, because it was fine untill that happend.

Terrahero.9358:

What kind of nonsense logic is that?

Some people will defend ANet no matter what. They could literally get shot in the face by the devs and they would apologize for standing in their way.

All Items should be salvageable that you buy with the MANY currencies we have in this game. Dungeon tokens are unrestricted so karma and wvw gear should be unrestricted. “play the game how you want” is not possible if there are different rules based on the currencies you receive.

Aidan Savage.2078:

You knew the risk of putting sigils and runes into gear you cannot salvage. Now you’re just paying the price (or not) of it. Also, this is something like thread #5 on this topic already.

No I didn’t know about the risk because I had my kitten transmutation stones and now I have useless charge stones, I don’t want to play a barbie doll house, there are The Sims for this. Good there are lot topics with this problem because sometimes they listen and maybe they gonna solve this somehow.
When I bought this game I thought that gear and upgrades will be the least problem but it’s a main problem in this game, grind and upgrade, grind and upgrade :/

They’re doing it right. Arenanet is holding off so that the people with money will buy the extractors now and not wait until something is done, so they can make their money.

PowerCat.5738:

They’re doing it right. Arenanet is holding off so that the people with money will buy the extractors now and not wait until something is done, so they can make their money.

Someone without a brain* for that price you can sell gems and buy any upgrade, keep rest of the gold.

Flytrap.8075:

Terrahero.9358:

What kind of nonsense logic is that?

Some people will defend ANet no matter what. They could literally get shot in the face by the devs and they would apologize for standing in their way.

It’s not defending Anet. Why would they need to be defended against foolish players who never bothered reading the patch notes, or even paid attention to announcements? If you bothered to do so, you’d have known to salvage the gear before the update. Christ, even if you werent sure, you’d have at least made a thread asking for confirmation.

Oh, dont make assumptions like an kitten . There’s plenty of dolyak kitten I’m kittened off at Anet over. I just dont make thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread kittening.

Aidan Savage.2078:

If you bothered to do so, you’d have known to salvage the gear before the update.

The gear in question isn’t salvagable.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Flytrap.8075:

Terrahero.9358:

What kind of nonsense logic is that?

Some people will defend ANet no matter what. They could literally get shot in the face by the devs and they would apologize for standing in their way.

It’s not defending Anet. Why would they need to be defended against foolish players who never bothered reading the patch notes, or even paid attention to announcements? If you bothered to do so, you’d have known to salvage the gear before the update. Christ, even if you werent sure, you’d have at least made a thread asking for confirmation.

Oh, dont make assumptions like an kitten . There’s plenty of dolyak kitten I’m kittened off at Anet over. I just dont make thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread kittening.

You’re just being purposely dense. Transmutating your gear before an update for what might happen is in no way reasonable. The OP, much like many others, just had the perfectly fair assumption that there would be a reasonable way to salvage your old Karma gear since transmutating was removed. There is not.

His complaint is a valid one.

Karma and WvW gear can’t be salvaged. People used Transmutation to be able to salvage and shift runes because of the first point. Anet stated a couple weeks in advance that transmutation was being removed. Simple logic would mean if you knew about the changes, you’d have taken the steps necessary to preserve the ability to use those runes. Clearly some people didnt. Why must Anet make it cheaper to fix your mistake?

To top it off, the upgrade extractor is used for more than cheap 10g sigils and runes. It’s used for upgrades put into gear that cost the same, or higher, than a full set of such runes for a single upgrade.

Either use your now “useless” gear as extras for things such as fractals, or make money and buy the runes again like you did before. Anet shouldn’t be asked, or required, to fix stupid decisions.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Why must Anet make it cheaper to fix your mistake?

*their mistake.

Aidan Savage.2078:

To top it off, the upgrade extractor is used for more than cheap 10g sigils and runes. It’s used for upgrades put into gear that cost the same, or higher, than a full set of such runes for a single upgrade.

This just makes no sense whatsoever. I don’t even know what you’re trying to say here, can you perhaps explain your argument a little better? The fact is though, regardless of what your response is, is that the upgrade component you’re extracting has to be over 25g before the upgrade extractor is worth purchasing. This situation is very, very rare.

As far as I can tell, there is only ONE item in the entire game where buying an upgrade extractor (trading gold for gems) would be cheaper than simply buying another one, and that is the superior sigil of generosity.

Now if you were to buy the gems with $$$ and trade for gold, 250 gems goes for ~ 18g. Which again is above every single rune and sigil bar the superior sigil of generosity.

The upgrade extractor has such a limited use in this scenario. So basically the only real solution is to allow these gear sets to be salvageable.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Either use your now “useless” gear as extras for things such as fractals, or make money and buy the runes again like you did before. Anet shouldn’t be asked, or required, to fix stupid decisions.

Yes because it makes total sense that the majority of the armour in the game is salvageable while some are not. Speaking of stupid and inept decisions…. cough

Oh right never mind I just read the post where you said the solution was for us to salvage this non-salvageable gear prior to the update.

Thank you for confirming you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about and that you’re just posting in this thread to troll.

zzzz

They fixed an exploit used to move runes and sigils around. Good. Now you must pay the market price and/or buy the extractor if you want to change your runes/sigils just like everyone else.

Isaac.6041:

They fixed an exploit

A year and a half long exploit eh…

Isaac.6041:

Now you must pay the market price

We paid the market price.

Isaac.6041:

and/or buy the extractor

Unless it’s a sigil of generosity, have fun wasting your gold.

Any crafted fine Infusion (most cost in excess of 40g for offensive), laurel infusions (because everyone has multiples of 20 to throw around), and high rank Agony Infusions (60g+ at +10 and higher).

And yes, your unintended use of transmutation items was closed off to you. Get over it.

While I agree with be message of this thread, isn’t it cheaper to buy the runes all over again than to buy the extractors?

Isaac.6041:

They fixed an exploit used to move runes and sigils around. Good. Now you must pay the market price and/or buy the extractor if you want to change your runes/sigils just like everyone else.

Except it wasn’t an exploit.

Aidan Savage.2078:

And yes, your unintended use of transmutation items was closed off to you. Get over it.

And also wasn’t unintended.

I don’t know where you guys get your ideas.

Olvendred.3027:

And also wasn’t unintended.

I don’t know where you guys get your ideas.

Deductive Logic. If it is intended that the item cannot be salvaged, then it is also intended that the rune cannot be recovered.

Transmutation was a workaround to that. The fact that the workaround is no longer present further bolsters the argument that it was not intended for the rune to be recovered.

mtpelion.4562:

Olvendred.3027:

And also wasn’t unintended.

I don’t know where you guys get your ideas.

Deductive Logic. If it is intended that the item cannot be salvaged, then it is also intended that the rune cannot be recovered.

Transmutation was a workaround to that. The fact that the workaround is no longer present further bolsters the argument that it was not intended for the rune to be recovered.

Incorrect logic. If the rune was not intended to be recovered, then the Extractor would not exist. A workaround still exists. The complaint is that it is 5 times more expensive than previously.

As for intended purpose of Transmutation Stones: they take 2 pieces of gear and merge them into 1. The player gets to choose from which of the original pieces of gear to get a) the appearance, b) the stats and c) the upgrade. Saying that they were not intended to be used for upgrades, when that was one third of the functionality, is a ridiculous assertion.

Unless you have a dev post saying that Transmutation Stones/Crystals were being used in an unintended way?

Olvendred.3027:

Incorrect logic. If the rune was not intended to be recovered, then the Extractor would not exist. A workaround still exists. The complaint is that it is 5 times more expensive than previously.

As for intended purpose of Transmutation Stones: they take 2 pieces of gear and merge them into 1. The player gets to choose from which of the original pieces of gear to get a) the appearance, b) the stats and c) the upgrade. Saying that they were not intended to be used for upgrades, when that was one third of the functionality, is a ridiculous assertion.

Unless you have a dev post saying that Transmutation Stones/Crystals were being used in an unintended way?

The upgrade extractor was put in to get your infusions back, hence the price point being so very high. It is unrelated to recovering runes/sigils as those are an added bonus of the item, not its purpose.

There is no flaw in the logic, it is intended that you are unable to salvage some types of gear, thus the rules/sigils on that gear were also intended to be unrecoverable. You had a workaround available to you, now you don’t.

mtpelion.4562:

The upgrade extractor was put in to get your infusions back, hence the price point being so very high. It is unrelated to recovering runes/sigils as those are an added bonus of the item, not its purpose.

There is no flaw in the logic, it is intended that you are unable to salvage some types of gear, thus the rules/sigils on that gear were also intended to be unrecoverable. You had a workaround available to you, now you don’t.

It’s an upgrade extractor. It is intended to extract upgrades. Runes and sigils are upgrades. Ergo, the upgrade extractor is intended to extract runes and sigils. Logic. Very simple logic. They may not have been the main need the item was intended to fill, but they are nonetheless within its purpose.

As I said, there is still a workaround. It is more expensive than before. This is the complaint.

Even if you were absolutely correct about everything (you are not), a change cannot be justified purely on the basis that it was intentional.

Olvendred.3027:

It’s an upgrade extractor. It is intended to extract upgrades. Runes and sigils are upgrades. Ergo, the upgrade extractor is intended to extract runes and sigils. Logic. Very simple logic. They may not have been the main need the item was intended to fill, but they are nonetheless within its purpose.

As I said, there is still a workaround. It is more expensive than before. This is the complaint.

Even if you were absolutely correct about everything (you are not), a change cannot be justified purely on the basis that it was intentional.

You are able to obtain runes/sigils via the upgrade extractor, yes, but you’d have to be incredibly bad at math to even consider that an option because buying all new runes/sigils is cheaper. Some people have more money than brains, and those people consider the upgrade extractor an item you’d use for getting runes/sigils back.

I’m absolutely correct about everything, sorry you don’t agree but the logic speaks for itself and your inability to comprehend it doesn’t change the fact that I’ve presented it correctly for your consumption.

As for changes being justified, you signed a contract in which you agreed that all changes are justified at all times, so good luck arguing otherwise.

mtpelion.4562:

You are able to obtain runes/sigils via the upgrade extractor, yes, but you’d have to be incredibly bad at math to even consider that an option because buying all new runes/sigils is cheaper. Some people have more money than brains, and those people consider the upgrade extractor an item you’d use for getting runes/sigils back.

The unlimited use gathering tools are extremely inefficient, cost-wise, compared to simply buying normal ones. Are the unlimited use gathering tools not intended to be used for gathering? The fact that the upgrade extractor is expensive doesn’t change its purpose.

I’m absolutely correct about everything, sorry you don’t agree but the logic speaks for itself and your inability to comprehend it doesn’t change the fact that I’ve presented it correctly for your consumption.

Thank you for insulting me. Your presentation has been neither logical nor correct.

As for changes being justified, you signed a contract in which you agreed that all changes are justified at all times, so good luck arguing otherwise.

That is not stated in the contract. You should construe it more thoroughly. Nor is player feedback excluded.

Olvendred.3027:

The unlimited use gathering tools are extremely inefficient, cost-wise, compared to simply buying normal ones. Are the unlimited use gathering tools not intended to be used for gathering? The fact that the upgrade extractor is expensive doesn’t change its purpose.

The unlimited use tools provide an intangible benefit in the form of unique animations and convenience. They are also mathematically unprofitable to purchase, but the value of those items is unrelated to the math. With the upgrade extractor, it is a purely mathematical decision as the transaction does not provide you with any intangibles.

Thank you for insulting me.

Not meant as an insult. Not everyone follows logic. I was simply pointing out that whether you agree with the explanation provided or not, it doesn’t change the reality of the situation.

That is not stated in the contract. You should construe it more thoroughly. Nor is player feedback excluded.

You agreed that you are going to use the software as is and that ArenaNet can change anything they want at any time for any reason. Player feedback is not excluded and I’m not saying you are right or wrong, merely answering your question as to why other people have told you that it was unintended.

mtpelion.4562:

Olvendred.3027:

The unlimited use gathering tools are extremely inefficient, cost-wise, compared to simply buying normal ones. Are the unlimited use gathering tools not intended to be used for gathering? The fact that the upgrade extractor is expensive doesn’t change its purpose.

The unlimited use tools provide an intangible benefit in the form of unique animations and convenience. They are also mathematically unprofitable to purchase, but the value of those items is unrelated to the math. With the upgrade extractor, it is a purely mathematical decision as the transaction does not provide you with any intangibles.

Granted. But then, the upgrade extractor provides the unique ability to get back upgrades from unsalvagable items. And the maths is subject to change based on the exchange rate and the tp cost of the upgrade, so cannot exclude purposes simply because they are, at present, unprofitable.

You agreed that you are going to use the software as is and that ArenaNet can change anything they want at any time for any reason. Player feedback is not excluded and I’m not saying you are right or wrong, merely answering your question as to why other people have told you that it was unintended.

That’s true (about the contract), but, as I said, does not justify the changes.

You keep saying it’s not intended to be able to recover upgrades from unsalvagable gear, purely because that gear is unsalvagable. Whereas, from launch up to the present, there has been and continues to be other ways of recovering upgrades from unsalvagable gear. All that tells us is that it’s not intended to be able to recover said upgrades by means of salvaging. You can’t extrapolate a blanket statement from that, especially when it’s clearly contradicted by other evidence (the consistent ability to recover said upgrades).

They really need to reduce the price of extractors by about 80%. Then they would be awesome and useful, people would buy them, and all of these problems would go away.

@Amurond

Gem Store items are priced based on cash value, never gold. ANet doesn’t set the exchange rate. The insistent use of gold to buy gems is what drives up the exchange rate. So players who insist on looking at Gem Store items in terms of cost in gold are their own worse enemies.

Their cash value range between $2.50 to $3.13 depending on volume bought.

Do I think they are overpriced? Of course. But they are meant for desperate players with plenty of cash. And as others pointed out, they work on infusions as well.