Guild Wars 2

Update 13/11/2013:

No RNG for the new 3 weapon skins ! Can I say awesome! I really hope it bring them more money.

Update 12/11/2013:

Since this topic has evolved:

Summary on idea’s how to make the gemstore better & my personal opinion.

Remove RNG:

Guhracie.3419 Make specific dyes available in tp with gems.
This would clutter TP unless a good filter system is implementing and my guess is that its hard work of not worth it in terms of opportunity cost

Curo.2483 Give a option to buy the tree tonic.
I would pay 800 gems for the infinite tree tonic, must have it only not at a RNG price

Vol.5241 Release a skin that will only be available in game for 3 months. For the first 2 months, make the skin available by RNG. For the last month, make the skin available directly. I would wait the first 2 months and buy it in the third month I don’t know how this will translate to sales on average in 3 months

Introduce a more favorable RNG to the player:

Magnus Steelgrave.6580 Increase the drop chance of desirable things. It is pretty consistent with the current model. Although I am personally more a proponent of removing the RNG in the gemstore

Chaotic Storm.2815 Improving chances could stimulate getting nicer skins for alts.
I must say when skins are cheaper indeed I would put more effort in my alts. This is not only good for the gemstore but also good for taking out money out of the economy.
_

I think this is worth sharing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVsV5WfZ3u0&feature=c4-overview&list=UUTlOYZOU1HGEqgb2XetyBBQ

The video is about letting you see trough the perspective of the developers. It is a really short layman’s explanation why these RNG monetization models work.

I must say the more I know about these systems the more I appreciate the way GW2 monetizes. I love how they sell the glove/ shoulder skins, maybe someday with weapon skins? wink wink They did it!

They work because it’s like gambling. It’s the same reason things like raffles work. They could still make things random and rewarding.

I understand that RNG works as a monetization approach, but as a player it also makes me unhappy, so I am doing my best to let the company know this before they lose me as a revenue stream when I get fed up.

Take a look at League of Legends for instance – they seem to do pretty well for themselves without making me feel like I’m getting scammed. I’ve paid out an order of magnitude (literally) more money to LoL than to GW2 for that reason.

we all know it works. Their quarterly calls confirm that. Supposedly it works really well. This doesn’t mean the player base likes it. Gambling in general can be very addicting to some. Even if you look at toys for example, this has become more and more popular. Sadly it isn’t going away.

My nephew buys these trash can guys, they are random pack where you don’t know what you’ll get. He can’t get enough of them.

It works to make more money for the game studio. It dont’ work to make the player happy.

SansSariph.9548:

I understand that RNG works as a monetization approach, but as a player it also makes me unhappy, so I am doing my best to let the company know this before they lose me as a revenue stream when I get fed up.

Take a look at League of Legends for instance – they seem to do pretty well for themselves without making me feel like I’m getting scammed. I’ve paid out an order of magnitude (literally) more money to LoL than to GW2 for that reason.

This, a thousand times this. The GW2 approach is not a good one.

If you don’t agree with the current monetization model:

1. Where does that feeling come from?
( At current RNG we can sell not wanted dyes, and as for for black lion chests we have black lion scraps. So I honestly don’t understand.)

2.How could they make it in a way without you feel like getting scammed , but still make a decent profit?

Wiz.1543:

If you don’t agree with the current monetization model:

1. Where does that feeling come from?
( At current RNG we can sell not wanted dyes, and as for for black lion chests we have black lion scraps. So I honestly don’t understand.)

I don’t understand this question. I think that if I’m buying something for a game with real money that I should be given a straightforward method with which to buy it. Black Lion chests are not rewarding and fun to open. The contents simply do not match up with the cost, most of the time.

2.How could they make it in a way without you feel like getting scammed , but still make a decent profit?

I’d buy a full set of the new dyes, even if they were only sold as a full set and I only wanted a couple of the colors. A random 3 pack for 800 gems, as long as it’s choosing ONLY the new colors, would send me over the moon.

In fact, I think they’d make money hand over fist if they had all the dyes on the gemstore (in addition to being drops in the game, not instead).

There are SO many cosmetic things they could just implement and sell directly at the gemstore, I don’t understand why they’re not just doing that.

They want to sell the dye for an unresaonable high price. But they know no one will buy it. So they put in RNG for those sucker who put in the cash.

They can just sell the dye directly and make decent profit. But obviously you think their make more money with the RNG chest, so there’s nothing more to say.

Or at least they could have put in the rate of items, which they obviously wouldn’t because less people will buy it if they know the true rate.

I completely understand this. However one thing not considered here is that there is no cost of production for additional units. Once a skin has been created, unlimited copies of that skin can be made for no extra cost. The eliminates the dilemma described early in the video when they talk about certain items not being attractive to all of your target audience. Yes, that fact remains true, however there is no additional cost of creating more units.

Also, why even create things that are not attractive (like common cards)? Every thing that League of Legends sells is attractive, and there is no RNG (as of a year ago when I played that game). I’ve purchased over $100 worth of stuff from LoL. Aside from my initial purchase of the game, I’ve not put any extra money into GW2. Yes I’d LOVE an infinite tree tonic. No, I am not going to invest money into getting one if there is a very real and high chance of me not getting it.

I don’t think the gemstore should have a loot table. Loot tables are fine when it comes to drops in-game, but when I’m buying with my real money, I want to know what I’m getting. I don’t want to hope I’m spending my money on something useful to me. Chest keys being nearly exclusive to the gemstore is bad enough, honestly.

When I started playing, I was excited at all the cool cosmetic things the game was offering outside of the gemstore. I’ve watched those things get assimilated into the gemstore, to the point that it’s extremely disheartening.

One of the problem is the gem exchange system. While you may pay big buck for other game. You might not do it in this game since there is the gem exchange system.

Curo.2483:

I completely understand this. However one thing not considered here is that there is no cost of production for additional units. Once a skin has been created, unlimited copies of that skin can be made for no extra cost. The eliminates the dilemma described early in the video when they talk about certain items not being attractive to all of your target audience. Yes, that fact remains true, however there is no additional cost of creating more units.

I don’t think cost per unit is actually a factor here.

But while it is true that the cost is minimal, keep in mind that it takes a significant amount of time to design these items. There are limited resources (designers, artists) and in a game where skins are the best method of monetization, you need to be cranking out skins as much as possible and take advantage of the ‘newness’ factor. You want to be making as much money as possible on these items before it loses its popularity, and they do this with RNG.

It’s no different in retail when you have in-season merchandise never being on-sale for the first 5 months, then for the last month for the season it gets marked-down.

What I think Anet can do as a compromise however, is this:

Release a skin that will only be available in game for 3 months

For the first 2 months, make the skin available by RNG

For the last month, make the skin available directly

Vol.5241:

…
What I think Anet can do as a compromise however, is this:

Release a skin that will only be available in game for 3 months

For the first 2 months, make the skin available by RNG

For the last month, make the skin available directly

This would be pretty fantastic.

SansSariph.9548:

Vol.5241:

…
What I think Anet can do as a compromise however, is this:

Release a skin that will only be available in game for 3 months

For the first 2 months, make the skin available by RNG

For the last month, make the skin available directly

This would be pretty fantastic.

This would not end the complaints, merely shift them. For two months people would complain that they hate RNG methods and it’s not fair to lock up the skins like that. Then when they are directly purchasable people will complain that their buddy got a key from an alt’s Personal Story rewards and got the skin for FREE so why should they pay $X for gems to buy it?

Ultimately the complaints are irrelevant because no matter what the method, someone is going to be upset by it. If they sell them directly, people without the money to buy them are going to complain, if they drop randomly people who don’t get lucky are going to complain, if they are rewarded for doing the LS achievements people who don’t have time to play every day are going to complain…

Anet tried several different approaches, from direct sale to in-game drops to BL chests and they chose the method that worked best for them. You can choose between buying/farming keys to play the RNG game or buy the skins directly from the TP. It’s not going to get any better than that.

tolunart.2095:

Ultimately the complaints are irrelevant because no matter what the method, someone is going to be upset by it. If they sell them directly, people without the money to buy them are going to complain, if they drop randomly people who don’t get lucky are going to complain, if they are rewarded for doing the LS achievements people who don’t have time to play every day are going to complain…

Anet tried several different approaches, from direct sale to in-game drops to BL chests and they chose the method that worked best for them. You can choose between buying/farming keys to play the RNG game or buy the skins directly from the TP. It’s not going to get any better than that.

I’m not sure it’s this black and white. Just because it’s true that people will always complain does not mean that the system doesn’t have room for improvement (it does).

As I’ve said in other threads, I’ll continue to complain about things I dislike whether anyone’s listening or not. That has a better chance – however marginal – of causing change than being defeatist about it.

Wiz.1543:

2.How could they make it in a way without you feel like getting scammed , but still make a decent profit?

Already answered 2 messages above, the LOL model.

morrolan.9608:

Wiz.1543:

2.How could they make it in a way without you feel like getting scammed , but still make a decent profit?

Already answered 2 messages above, the LOL model.

To be clear, the LoL model is: make compelling content and allow people to buy the content.

Rocket science!

That being said, there are certainly times I’ve thought to myself – wow, does this skin really cost the equivalent (in “Riot Points”) of $10+? For one skin?

But then I get over it and shell out cash, because I want the skin and Riot isn’t playing games about it.

Wiz.1543:

2.How could they make it in a way without you feel like getting scammed , but still make a decent profit?

Don’t stiff you so hard with the drop rates of the desirable things… There’s no reason for them to limit drops so extremely that the skins reach 150-350g for a blc skin. It benefits them little to none at all because most people aren’t going to keep buying and buying and buying and buying to get the 1 skin… they’ll give up after the first couple shots (we’ll say 50 keys) and for the most part give up on trying to buy rng things each time they come out…

Now if they were to reward you with a ticket (not just scraps) 5-10% of the time… they would have a ton of people buying keys EVERY time they introduce new things rather than have a large portion of them be so bitter to the point they don’t bother spending their money on it anymore. So by increasing the drop rate they can then expand to a wider audience of people spending their real money as opposed to trying to focus on a smaller group of bigger purchases. And because they would be expanding their audience that leaves a lot of small chunks of gems left over after they get what they really want that (say 300 gems) that end up saying “oh hey, just buy some more to cap me off at XXXX amount of gems so I can get the next thing” which in theory should cause them to spend more on the game for the gems to get them to the next item they desire because they feel that they have a legitimate chance of obtaining them at that point…. if any of that makes sense…

KOPPER.1458:

My nephew buys these trash can guys, they are random pack where you don’t know what you’ll get. He can’t get enough of them.

I remember being big into z-bots when I was a kid. For a child its a big thrill because you never know what I could get and money had no meaning to me then.
For an adult it can still have the same effect but now we’re more aware of budgets and the value of money. Sadly some never get to this stage and get addicted to the thrill without thinking ahead.

Wiz.1543:

If you don’t agree with the current monetization model:

1. Where does that feeling come from?
( At current RNG we can sell not wanted dyes, and as for for black lion chests we have black lion scraps. So I honestly don’t understand.)

2.How could they make it in a way without you feel like getting scammed , but still make a decent profit?

1. problem with the scraps if they are also hard to get. add in trying for 10= 1 ticket. then having to get multiple tickets for some things. it adds up to a heavy bill.

2. Make it a 10% chance. still a gamble but very possible to get it after a good 10 tries unless your really bad with luck. Now add in the thinking of large number of players who know feel its possible and are willing to try. Now they are aiming to get 2-3 or even more weapons rather then stopping after 1. Take that and add in alts and suddenly people are no longer stopping at only a few. they are gearing up multiple toons.

and the most important way to get people to buy them is putting out desired items that will get the masses interested.

I am confused…

You are grumpy with anet flooding dyes onto the market like this is a bad thing. You would rather prefer to be able to buy your choice dyes – which you can already do from the TP precisely because the market is flooded with dyes ( and not just dyes bought in the gem store).

Would you care to just eat your cake, or do you intend to have it too?

I’m no fan of the current gem store’s blind packages, but as long as nothing account bound is involved, I’ve no issue with them either – I can then assume the risk and open some myself, or pay a premium and buy what I wanted from players off the TP

Updated the main post with a summary of idea’s and my take on them. Thanks for the constructive idea’s! It was really fun reading them. I hope the idea’s keep coming.

Yamagawa.5941:

I am confused…You are grumpy with anet flooding dyes onto the market like this is a bad thing. You would rather prefer to be able to buy your choice dyes – which you can already do from the TP precisely because the market is flooded with dyes

I made the exact same point 4 days ago in the same thread:

If you don’t agree with the current monetization model: 1. Where does that feeling come from?
( At current RNG we can sell not wanted dyes, and as for for black lion chests we have black lion scraps. So I honestly don’t understand.)

The point of of this thread was to share some thoughts behind RNG.

The point of this thread has evolved to what do we think of the current monetization model.

I haven no reason to be grumpy. I just curious on how monetization models work. Although there is someone who has a good reason to be grumpy. Evon Gnahsblade… but well that is a different story. ^^

“RNG is working as intended.”

Teege.4623:

“RNG is working as intended.”

The 3 new weapon skins are now directly purchasable with gems → so awesome