Guild Wars 2

Something has been bothering me for quite awhile now, in fact since it was introduced, The fact that you can now buy and sell legendaries. I really Don’t understand the logic here, since it was stated since day one that legendary items would make up a major part of “the end game” of Guild Wars 2.

What really bothers me is the fact that someone could come along, buy the game, buy enough gold either through gems or a third party site, and buy a legendary off the trading post. This means that someone completely new to the game, has no clue what their doing and has put zero effort into playing could own a legendary, essentially allowing them to BUY “the end game”. I thought the entire reasoning behind legendaries was “oh hey look at me! I put lots of time and effort into getting this shiny weapon!” Now its essentially who ever has spent the most time staring at the trading post, people who have large sums of money at their disposal, OR people who have actually played the game and put time and effort into it.

I would really love to hear the reasoning for making legendaries trade-able, and why people who have put zero effort into playing the game are allowed to have “the end game”.

Something between the original idea of what Legendaries originally meant and how they were implemented in the game went terribly wrong. They are far from being what they represent and just an asset for wealthy TP players, not adventurers.

Well.. you still need to be level 80 to use it. So, to be fair, that IS end game. You can buy it and not use it, though.

Hey, another complaint thread about Legendaries. There’s already been discussion on this very topic.

You can buy and sell the end-game cosmetics of GW1, too, and yet no one complained about that. It’s curious that buying and selling the end-game cosmetics of GW2 has people in such a frenzy.

That said, it is not zero-effort to buy a legendary, either with real money via gems converted to gold or via in-game money earned as gold by any means. 1200+ gold is no small sum, and in gems that would cost $1056 US to buy outright. If someone is willing to pay an entire paycheck to ANet in order to have the gems to convert to gold to buy their legendary, then more power to them. That is a lot of real life work converted into gold, which is ultimately no less life investment than farming it all in-game. There is no zero-effort here; it’s a ton of effort no matter how you slice the cake.

I think it is very good that legendaries are allowed to be sold. It helps the economy by removing gold from the market on huge sales that the TP taxes. I think the problem people really have with buying and selling legendaries is that they have some premeditated opinion on what a legendary item should be, and the realization that ANet’s definition of a legendary item doesn’t match that person’s definition bothers them. I think if you come to terms with what a legendary is, rather than what you think it ought to be, you’ll find it all makes sense within the framework of the game. (Note: This isn’t advocating complacency, rather that you shouldn’t be trying to imprint your personal vision of the game onto ANet)

Hopefully that has helped.

Rising Dusk.2408:

You can buy and sell the end-game cosmetics of GW1, too, and yet no one complained about that. It’s curious that buying and selling the end-game cosmetics of GW2 has people in such a frenzy.

That said, it is not zero-effort to buy a legendary, either with real money via gems converted to gold or via in-game money earned as gold by any means. 1200+ gold is no small sum, and in gems that would cost $1056 US to buy outright. If someone is willing to pay an entire paycheck to ANet in order to have the gems to convert to gold to buy their legendary, then more power to them. That is a lot of real life work converted into gold, which is ultimately no less life investment than farming it all in-game. There is no zero-effort here; it’s a ton of effort no matter how you slice the cake.

I think it is very good that legendaries are allowed to be sold. It helps the economy by removing gold from the market on huge sales that the TP taxes. I think the problem people really have with buying and selling legendaries is that they have some premeditated opinion on what a legendary item should be, and the realization that ANet’s definition of a legendary item doesn’t match that person’s definition bothers them. I think if you come to terms with what a legendary is, rather than what you think it ought to be, you’ll find it all makes sense within the framework of the game. (Note: This isn’t advocating complacency, rather that you shouldn’t be trying to imprint your personal vision of the game onto ANet)

Hopefully that has helped.

Well said!!! It’s too bad that those complaining will never listen to reasoned arguments.

Rising Dusk.2408:

You can buy and sell the end-game cosmetics of GW1, too, and yet no one complained about that. It’s curious that buying and selling the end-game cosmetics of GW2 has people in such a frenzy.

That said, it is not zero-effort to buy a legendary, either with real money via gems converted to gold or via in-game money earned as gold by any means. 1200+ gold is no small sum, and in gems that would cost $1056 US to buy outright. If someone is willing to pay an entire paycheck to ANet in order to have the gems to convert to gold to buy their legendary, then more power to them. That is a lot of real life work converted into gold, which is ultimately no less life investment than farming it all in-game. There is no zero-effort here; it’s a ton of effort no matter how you slice the cake.

I think it is very good that legendaries are allowed to be sold. It helps the economy by removing gold from the market on huge sales that the TP taxes. I think the problem people really have with buying and selling legendaries is that they have some premeditated opinion on what a legendary item should be, and the realization that ANet’s definition of a legendary item doesn’t match that person’s definition bothers them. I think if you come to terms with what a legendary is, rather than what you think it ought to be, you’ll find it all makes sense within the framework of the game. (Note: This isn’t advocating complacency, rather that you shouldn’t be trying to imprint your personal vision of the game onto ANet)

Hopefully that has helped.

While I understand that obviously money doesn’t just fall out of the sky and that it takes effort to get. What I meant was that I essentially understood from day one that legendaries were meant to be owned solely by people who put effort into playing the game.

Also while the original Guild Wars had many items that were sought after and yes were trade-able there was nothing that really equated to the quintessential “legendary”. by that I mean there was nothing that really took a-lot of personal effort throughout the game to obtain.

Darknass.1903:

While I understand that obviously money doesn’t just fall out of the sky and that it takes effort to get. What I meant was that I essentially understood from day one that legendaries were meant to be owned solely by people who put effort into playing the game.

It is very unfeasible for people to purely spend real life money on a legendary, but even in smaller amounts, I think being able to spend $20 to make it easier for you to get your legendary sooner totally acceptable. One of the biggest and most important philosophies about GW2, as stated repeatedly by ANet, is that it needs to be rewarding to you to play the game [i]however you so choose to play the game[i]. If that involves farming gold in CoF, or playing Trader Wars 2 and TPing all day long, or earning money IRL and still getting rewarded in-game despite having little time to play, or if you want to explore the world and do it all yourself, so be it! It’s all okay, and ANet encourages that. To me, it is a simple extension of that philosophy to legendary weapons, and their implementations make a lot of sense to me. Allowing legendaries to be traded lets you get rewarded for how you want to play the game, which is exactly how they wanted it.

Darknass.1903:

Also while the original Guild Wars had many items that were sought after and yes were trade-able there was nothing that really equated to the quintessential “legendary”. by that I mean there was nothing that really took a-lot of personal effort throughout the game to obtain.

Not with real money, certainly, but definitely with regards to in-game money. GW1 was a lot more one-dimensional, which maybe helped people see the rewards system as such. You earned platinum, and then used platinum to acquire items. It was simple. Now you can earn account bound components and use them to acquire legendary items. I think ANet implemented this as a means to reward players who want to explore and do those things, though. Consider that you can get all of the account bound components for a legendary, buy the non-account bound parts for X, make the legendary, and then sell the legendary for X + Y, where Y is essentially your monetary reward for the account bound work. I think that’s a good strategy for allowing players to feel personally and monetarily rewarded for their personal work.

Still people fail to understand that Legendaries were promoted as end game achievement reward, to be displayed on characters that completed most if not all the content.

I pugged a Arah once with a player wearing 2 legendaries… when asked if he knew the dungeon his answer was “I only did AC for money runs and thats all i know”

(Legendaries were a GS and the shield)

Rising Dusk.2408:

Darknass.1903:

While I understand that obviously money doesn’t just fall out of the sky and that it takes effort to get. What I meant was that I essentially understood from day one that legendaries were meant to be owned solely by people who put effort into playing the game.

It is very unfeasible for people to purely spend real life money on a legendary, but even in smaller amounts, I think being able to spend $20 to make it easier for you to get your legendary sooner totally acceptable. One of the biggest and most important philosophies about GW2, as stated repeatedly by ANet, is that it needs to be rewarding to you to play the game [i]however you so choose to play the game[i]. If that involves farming gold in CoF, or playing Trader Wars 2 and TPing all day long, or earning money IRL and still getting rewarded in-game despite having little time to play, or if you want to explore the world and do it all yourself, so be it! It’s all okay, and ANet encourages that. To me, it is a simple extension of that philosophy to legendary weapons, and their implementations make a lot of sense to me. Allowing legendaries to be traded lets you get rewarded for how you want to play the game, which is exactly how they wanted it.

Darknass.1903:

Also while the original Guild Wars had many items that were sought after and yes were trade-able there was nothing that really equated to the quintessential “legendary”. by that I mean there was nothing that really took a-lot of personal effort throughout the game to obtain.

Not with real money, certainly, but definitely with regards to in-game money. GW1 was a lot more one-dimensional, which maybe helped people see the rewards system as such. You earned platinum, and then used platinum to acquire items. It was simple. Now you can earn account bound components and use them to acquire legendary items. I think ANet implemented this as a means to reward players who want to explore and do those things, though. Consider that you can get all of the account bound components for a legendary, buy the non-account bound parts for X, make the legendary, and then sell the legendary for X + Y, where Y is essentially your monetary reward for the account bound work. I think that’s a good strategy for allowing players to feel personally and monetarily rewarded for their personal work.

Alright sir or madam you’ve certainly enlightened me, thank you.

Mesket.5728:

Still people fail to understand that Legendaries were promoted as end game achievement reward, to be displayed on characters that completed most if not all the content.

I pugged a Arah once with a player wearing 2 legendaries… when asked if he knew the dungeon his answer was “I only did AC for money runs and thats all i know”

Mesket, your post perfectly represents what I was saying above:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I think the problem people really have with buying and selling legendaries is that they have some premeditated opinion on what a legendary item should be, and the realization that ANet’s definition of a legendary item doesn’t match that person’s definition bothers them.

Let’s be real here. It is an end-game achievement no matter what because it costs a ton of money that you have to earn somehow. Dungeon master isn’t a requirement for a legendary, nor do I think it should be. Even if it was, people could buy runs of a dungeon from other people, which is a legitimate practice, so either way “as long as you have the money you can get a legendary”. That’s what top gear is about in GW2, and that’s okay. That’s what we all really need to come to terms with.

Darknass.1903:

Alright sir or madam you’ve certainly enlightened me, thank you.

I’m glad to hear that it helped.

Well… It’s not a matter of agreement or disagreement with your statement Rising Dusk but with how many lies are included in this oficial blog:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/my-legend-grows-forging-your-first-legendary-weapon/

As I post this I’m alt-tab killing my 5th Dragon of the day and its only 3pm (Holiday in Argentina )… there it goes, Hard accomplishments right there!

Getting a precursor (or two, so you sell one and forge with the money) its not “HARD TO GET” its just nother lottery ticket.

Uh?

What in that blog post is a lie? That is pretty much the legendary process currently.

They just didn’t mention that it could be sold/traded. Does that make the entire blog post a lie? (It doesn’t.)

Ursan.7846:

Uh?

What in that blog post is a lie? That is pretty much the legendary process currently.

They just didn’t mention that it could be sold/traded. Does that make the entire blog post a lie? (It doesn’t.)

Big Lie 1:
“Legendary Weapons are the end result of an epic adventure in Guild Wars 2. You’ll travel all over, collecting items and amassing materials to build your Legendary Weapon.”

Big Lie 2:
“Legendary Weapons are an impressive meld of art and effects. They show off your accomplishments and allow you to change your character’s footprints, projectiles, and much more. They’re designed to stand out and show everyone that you are a true master of Guild Wars 2.”

The rest its of course a matter of interpretating whats written and the current RNG and while put into practice it falls into another “lie” since the current drop rate makes near impossible to acquire all the goods by yourself. POSSIBLE: Yes,… but its just as possible as becoming millonaire in real life selling 1 cent candies at a rate of 2 per day.

You can tell who got their stuff already by the way they post…
Can’t stay unique if you don’t advocate keeping them out of the dirty hands of the masses.

As another poster said, most of the folks I see with legendaries can barely play in most dungeons and wvw. But they’re pros at Orr, CoF and AC!

Rising Dusk.2408:

I think the problem people really have with buying and selling legendaries is that they have some premeditated opinion on what a legendary item should be, and the realization that ANet’s definition of a legendary item doesn’t match that person’s definition bothers them. I think if you come to terms with what a legendary is, rather than what you think it ought to be, you’ll find it all makes sense within the framework of the game. (Note: This isn’t advocating complacency, rather that you shouldn’t be trying to imprint your personal vision of the game onto ANet)

Hopefully that has helped.

Well, Arenanet made it perfectly clear what they think Legendaries should be:

Legendaries are supposed to (sic);

• “show off your accomplishments and symbolise all of the things that you’ve been doing” (Lead Designer Isiah Cartwright – in this video) and,
• “show everyone that you are a true master of Guild Wars 2” (quoted from this page entitled “Forging Your First Legendary Weapon” as though they should be available to everybody).

Legendary weapons became a mockery because the people who acquired them didn’t necessarily have to do any of these things.

Rising Dusk.2408:

You shouldn’t be trying to imprint your personal vision of the game onto ANet

…and neither should you.

Hopefully that has helped.

I’m not sure I understand you. You’re taking the position that earning gold, however you achieve that end, is not an accomplishment, nor does being wealthy in-game symbolize what you’ve been doing. I don’t think that makes sense.

If I have invested a lot of my time in-game into mastering the economy of GW2, or perhaps mastering certain instances of GW2 in order to make maximum gold, then if it has resulted in my earning a lot of gold. If I then use that gold to buy a legendary off the TP, I have achieved exactly what Izzy said in that blog post. The in-game measurement of one’s success is multi-faceted, and sometimes it’s a title, but very generally it’s by the amount of gold in your bank. That’s a quantitative measurement of your success, and I do not think that successfully playing the market or farming is any less mastery over the game than being able to do jumping puzzles or WvW or every dungeon path or L80 FotM. ANet has always emphasized that you should be able to achieve your goals by playing the game the way that you want to be playing it. There are some inconsistencies in this right now (WvW sucks at rewards, for instance), but ANet is aware of it and has posted repeatedly that they’re working on it across the forums.

I’d also appreciate it if you didn’t insinuate that I am forcing my opinion on others or pretending that I represent ANet. I know well my limitations and my position as a player, I am just trying to explain the situation to an interested individual is all.

Why does it matter. Am I suppose to clap my hand when someone farmed cof path 1 1000 times or the same orr event 1000 times?

People who have legendary now either got them when they are cheap a long time ago, or isn’t thinking right. Legendary isn’t a sign of achievement. It’s a sign of you are very tolerable to doing the same boring content over and over again.

I think the real issues regarding legendaries being for sale in the TP is that A: It diminishes any achievement attached to the ultimate prize. And B: Buying it from the TP or playing the RNG (gambling) are currently the only way to get one, both methods that require little skill or adventurous conquest and further diminish the achievement.

There should be a very difficult solo instance to get an account bound precursor and a title. If you can’t get one that way and others are then it’s on you. At least you have control of your endgame experience at that point instead of having it dictated by the BLTC or mystic forge. The gift of fortune is more than enough RNG for this process.

Best thing about this process? You get the title too. So that you and I know that you didn’t exploit/buy/TP flip your way to a precursor. It shows you accomplished something worthy of admiration.

And before someone says it, no. I have no respect for your ability to farm CoF, Orr or flip items. None, and I see no reason that I should.

Mesket.5728:

Ursan.7846:

Uh?

What in that blog post is a lie? That is pretty much the legendary process currently.

They just didn’t mention that it could be sold/traded. Does that make the entire blog post a lie? (It doesn’t.)

Big Lie 1:
“Legendary Weapons are the end result of an epic adventure in Guild Wars 2. You’ll travel all over, collecting items and amassing materials to build your Legendary Weapon.”

Big Lie 2:
“Legendary Weapons are an impressive meld of art and effects. They show off your accomplishments and allow you to change your character’s footprints, projectiles, and much more. They’re designed to stand out and show everyone that you are a true master of Guild Wars 2.”

The rest its of course a matter of interpretating whats written and the current RNG and while put into practice it falls into another “lie” since the current drop rate makes near impossible to acquire all the goods by yourself. POSSIBLE: Yes,… but its just as possible as becoming millonaire in real life selling 1 cent candies at a rate of 2 per day.

Just because YOU can’t achieve it doesn’t mean everyone else can’t. If you put some effort into your quest for a Legendary, you’ll be sure to get one in time. No need for the jealousy.

Penguin, never disappoints with the ad hominem. Legendaries clearly aren’t what they were made out to be. No need to try to attack him rather than his argument.

SteepledHat.1345:

Penguin, never disappoints with the ad hominem. Legendaries clearly aren’t what they were made out to be. No need to try to attack him rather than his argument.

I’m not sure what ad hominem is. Is it a song by Queen?

Legendary Weapons are the end result of an epic adventure in Guild Wars 2. You’ll travel all over, collecting items and amassing materials to build your Legendary Weapon.

How do you get started? Legendary Weapons are created in the Mystic Forge. We’ve kept the recipe a mystery so the community has a puzzle to figure out, but if you want some hints, many players have been posting their progress on forums. You’ll begin to see some ambitious players wielding Legendary Weapons in game very soon. If you’re more the figure-it-out-yourself type, you can finds hints as to how to craft your weapon in almost every area of Guild Wars 2—WvW, dungeons, dynamic events, crafting, and more—so keep your eyes peeled.

Let me explain some of the process. It all starts with a base weapon—these are the extremely rare exotic weapons. Once you’ve obtained your base weapon, you’ll need to present gifts to Zommoros, a powerful djinn who lives in Lion’s Arch. These gifts come from all over Tyria, and you’ll need different ones depending on what Legendary Weapon you’re trying to craft, so be ready to do some exploring.

From there, you’ll need to collect ore, wood, and high-level trophies. You’ll complete dungeons, battle in World vs. World, collect karma, and visit the Temple of Balthazar. Once you collect all of the necessary gifts, materials, and karma, you’re ready to craft your Legendary Weapon.

Legendary Weapons are an impressive meld of art and effects. They show off your accomplishments and allow you to change your character’s footprints, projectiles, and much more. They’re designed to stand out and show everyone that you are a true master of Guild Wars 2.

Just bolded some parts of the blog posts that are true. He described pretty much what the legendary process is right now.

He basically details what he thinks is an “epic adventure.”

Whether, in your opinion, you agree with the definition is one thing. But to flat out say he’s lying? Eeeh.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

SteepledHat.1345:

Penguin, never disappoints with the ad hominem. Legendaries clearly aren’t what they were made out to be. No need to try to attack him rather than his argument.

I’m not sure what ad hominem is. Is it a song by Queen?

it’s a philosophy term. which means you’re trying to make your arguments more valuable by denigrating the other person’s image

trane.4569:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

SteepledHat.1345:

Penguin, never disappoints with the ad hominem. Legendaries clearly aren’t what they were made out to be. No need to try to attack him rather than his argument.

I’m not sure what ad hominem is. Is it a song by Queen?

it’s a philosophy term. which means you’re trying to make your arguments more valuable by denigrate the other person’s image

Dang. People keep using words that I never learned in kollege.

All joking aside, when a player can’t achieve their goals in game, and then attacks Anet for “lies” because of the player’s failings, that speaks for itself.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

trane.4569:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

SteepledHat.1345:

Penguin, never disappoints with the ad hominem. Legendaries clearly aren’t what they were made out to be. No need to try to attack him rather than his argument.

I’m not sure what ad hominem is. Is it a song by Queen?

it’s a philosophy term. which means you’re trying to make your arguments more valuable by denigrate the other person’s image

Dang. People keep using words that I never learned in kollege.

All joking aside, when a player can’t achieve their goals in game, and then attacks Anet for “lies” because of the player’s failings, that speaks for itself.

Let’s not be condescending here. While I am total agreement that you need to spend lots of in-game time to earn Legendaries (By alot I mean a thousand hours), just because some players can’t spend the time, it doesn’t mean it’s their failing. Some people have obligations in real life that takes precedence over a video game which restricts their playtime. That is not their failing

Ursan.7846:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

trane.4569:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

SteepledHat.1345:

Penguin, never disappoints with the ad hominem. Legendaries clearly aren’t what they were made out to be. No need to try to attack him rather than his argument.

I’m not sure what ad hominem is. Is it a song by Queen?

it’s a philosophy term. which means you’re trying to make your arguments more valuable by denigrate the other person’s image

Dang. People keep using words that I never learned in kollege.

All joking aside, when a player can’t achieve their goals in game, and then attacks Anet for “lies” because of the player’s failings, that speaks for itself.

Let’s not be condescending here. While I am total agreement that you need to spend lots of in-game time to earn Legendaries (By alot I mean a thousand hours), just because some players can’t spend the time, it doesn’t mean it’s their failing. Some people have obligations in real life that takes precedence over a video game which restricts their playtime. That is not their failing

I’m speaking more along the lines of people just blaming Anet for everything. Sure some people are casual gamers. But just because they want something really bad, and don’t have the time to get it as fast as the hardcores can, it doesn’t give them any right to say “Anet lies” to prove their points.

Players should play the game in their own style, and enjoy every minute of it. In doing that, they need to make realistic goals for themselves. Legendaries weren’t meant to be something that can be gotten quickly. It takes time, a journey if you will.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Mesket.5728:

Ursan.7846:

Uh?

What in that blog post is a lie? That is pretty much the legendary process currently.

They just didn’t mention that it could be sold/traded. Does that make the entire blog post a lie? (It doesn’t.)

Big Lie 1:
“Legendary Weapons are the end result of an epic adventure in Guild Wars 2. You’ll travel all over, collecting items and amassing materials to build your Legendary Weapon.”

Big Lie 2:
“Legendary Weapons are an impressive meld of art and effects. They show off your accomplishments and allow you to change your character’s footprints, projectiles, and much more. They’re designed to stand out and show everyone that you are a true master of Guild Wars 2.”

The rest its of course a matter of interpretating whats written and the current RNG and while put into practice it falls into another “lie” since the current drop rate makes near impossible to acquire all the goods by yourself. POSSIBLE: Yes,… but its just as possible as becoming millonaire in real life selling 1 cent candies at a rate of 2 per day.

Just because YOU can’t achieve it doesn’t mean everyone else can’t. If you put some effort into your quest for a Legendary, you’ll be sure to get one in time. No need for the jealousy.

I’ve heard empty answers before…. you just won an award.

1K+ hours played. DM tittle, World explored, tokens to throw to the roof, I have my T3 armor and sweet looking weapons… still 1/5th of the legendary just because I don’t play the market, I play the game and have horrible horrible luck (don’t really buy that DR stuck theory but they are really trying to convince me though)…

I already spent 5K+ AC tokens in exotics to the Mystic Toilet, killed hundreds of Dragons, did all the JPz… I can spent another 1K+ hours playing with the same luck.

System based of Luck is stupidly wrong for games already… Maybe 10 years ago, but everything threw up on luck is plain stupid and lazy.

NOTHING in this game guarantee your progress towards a Legendary without having extremely low chances of getting it. THAT is why you see hundreds of posts on the same subject… and as long as more and more people accumulate the same ammount of hours played and realized they are not being rewarded in gold or in drops you will see more and more posts of this. There is a small % who got one by doing the same thing I (and many else) are doing but doesn’t mean the current system is OK. Its just not.

Mesket.5728:

1K+ hours played. DM tittle, World explored, tokens to throw to the roof, I have my T3 armor and sweet looking weapons… still 1/5th of the legendary just because I don’t play the market, I play the game and have horrible horrible luck (don’t really buy that DR stuck theory but they are really trying to convince me though)…

I already spent 5K+ AC tokens in exotics to the Mystic Toilet, killed hundreds of Dragons, did all the JPz… I can spent another 1K+ hours playing with the same luck.

System based of Luck is stupidly wrong for games already… Maybe 10 years ago, but everything threw up on luck is plain stupid and lazy.

NOTHING in this game guarantee your progress towards a Legendary without having extremely low chances of getting it. THAT is why you see hundreds of posts on the same subject… and as long as more and more people accumulate the same ammount of hours played and realized they are not being rewarded in gold or in drops you will see more and more posts of this. There is a small % who got one by doing the same thing I (and many else) are doing but doesn’t mean the current system is OK. Its just not.

But but but…you described many things that would progress you towards a precursor.

You obviously had to earn gold for your cultural. How did you do it? Keep on doing the same, eventually you’ll have enough money to buy it off the TP.

If you ran enough AC to have 5K tokens, you have to have a bunch of money from drops, loot, completion, etc. Save that money and eventually you’ll have enough money to buy it off the TP. (Btw, 5k tokens is like what….16 exotics of 300 tokens each? That’s not much dude.)

To say “nothing” in this game guarantees progress is false. You can earn gold, save, and work towards buying it off the TP if you don’t like the randomness of the MF.

Ursan.7846:

Mesket.5728:

1K+ hours played. DM tittle, World explored, tokens to throw to the roof, I have my T3 armor and sweet looking weapons… still 1/5th of the legendary just because I don’t play the market, I play the game and have horrible horrible luck (don’t really buy that DR stuck theory but they are really trying to convince me though)…

I already spent 5K+ AC tokens in exotics to the Mystic Toilet, killed hundreds of Dragons, did all the JPz… I can spent another 1K+ hours playing with the same luck.

System based of Luck is stupidly wrong for games already… Maybe 10 years ago, but everything threw up on luck is plain stupid and lazy.

NOTHING in this game guarantee your progress towards a Legendary without having extremely low chances of getting it. THAT is why you see hundreds of posts on the same subject… and as long as more and more people accumulate the same ammount of hours played and realized they are not being rewarded in gold or in drops you will see more and more posts of this. There is a small % who got one by doing the same thing I (and many else) are doing but doesn’t mean the current system is OK. Its just not.

But but but…you described many things that would progress you towards a precursor.

You obviously had to earn gold for your cultural. How did you do it? Keep on doing the same, eventually you’ll have enough money to buy it off the TP.

If you ran enough AC to have 5K tokens, you have to have a bunch of money from drops, loot, completion, etc. Save that money and eventually you’ll have enough money to buy it off the TP. (Btw, 5k tokens is like what….16 exotics of 300 tokens each? That’s not much dude.)

To say “nothing” in this game guarantees progress is false. You can earn gold, save, and work towards buying it off the TP if you don’t like the randomness of the MF.

So we go back to the begining of all… Its all a matter of gold. Find the fastest way to produce gold and exploit it. Forget about whatever is out there… make gold and you are set.

Sry… GW2 really dissapointed me.

Mesket.5728:

Ursan.7846:

Mesket.5728:

1K+ hours played. DM tittle, World explored, tokens to throw to the roof, I have my T3 armor and sweet looking weapons… still 1/5th of the legendary just because I don’t play the market, I play the game and have horrible horrible luck (don’t really buy that DR stuck theory but they are really trying to convince me though)…

I already spent 5K+ AC tokens in exotics to the Mystic Toilet, killed hundreds of Dragons, did all the JPz… I can spent another 1K+ hours playing with the same luck.

System based of Luck is stupidly wrong for games already… Maybe 10 years ago, but everything threw up on luck is plain stupid and lazy.

NOTHING in this game guarantee your progress towards a Legendary without having extremely low chances of getting it. THAT is why you see hundreds of posts on the same subject… and as long as more and more people accumulate the same ammount of hours played and realized they are not being rewarded in gold or in drops you will see more and more posts of this. There is a small % who got one by doing the same thing I (and many else) are doing but doesn’t mean the current system is OK. Its just not.

But but but…you described many things that would progress you towards a precursor.

You obviously had to earn gold for your cultural. How did you do it? Keep on doing the same, eventually you’ll have enough money to buy it off the TP.

If you ran enough AC to have 5K tokens, you have to have a bunch of money from drops, loot, completion, etc. Save that money and eventually you’ll have enough money to buy it off the TP. (Btw, 5k tokens is like what….16 exotics of 300 tokens each? That’s not much dude.)

To say “nothing” in this game guarantees progress is false. You can earn gold, save, and work towards buying it off the TP if you don’t like the randomness of the MF.

So we go back to the begining of all… Its all a matter of gold. Find the fastest way to produce gold and exploit it. Forget about whatever is out there… make gold and you are set.

Sry… GW2 really dissapointed me.

But wait. You just proved a major argument point here. You made the CHOICE to divert all your resources into getting T3 gear, weapons, etc., instead of saving up the money to purchase a Precursor from the TP.

There were two paths to take:
1) Low risk and quick reward – steady price, but good looking T3 gear
2) High risk and high reward – requires saving up Gold. Precursor pricing volatile, with the risk that you’d waste a lot of money should prices crash with future Scavenger Hunt.

Both seemed to be desirable to you, but with time constraints, you can only pick one. So you picked the path with the lowest risk, yet yielding good rewards (T3 gear). In hindsight, you now regret this decision, and really want a Precursor instead.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Mesket.5728:

Ursan.7846:

Mesket.5728:

1K+ hours played. DM tittle, World explored, tokens to throw to the roof, I have my T3 armor and sweet looking weapons… still 1/5th of the legendary just because I don’t play the market, I play the game and have horrible horrible luck (don’t really buy that DR stuck theory but they are really trying to convince me though)…

I already spent 5K+ AC tokens in exotics to the Mystic Toilet, killed hundreds of Dragons, did all the JPz… I can spent another 1K+ hours playing with the same luck.

System based of Luck is stupidly wrong for games already… Maybe 10 years ago, but everything threw up on luck is plain stupid and lazy.

NOTHING in this game guarantee your progress towards a Legendary without having extremely low chances of getting it. THAT is why you see hundreds of posts on the same subject… and as long as more and more people accumulate the same ammount of hours played and realized they are not being rewarded in gold or in drops you will see more and more posts of this. There is a small % who got one by doing the same thing I (and many else) are doing but doesn’t mean the current system is OK. Its just not.

But but but…you described many things that would progress you towards a precursor.

You obviously had to earn gold for your cultural. How did you do it? Keep on doing the same, eventually you’ll have enough money to buy it off the TP.

If you ran enough AC to have 5K tokens, you have to have a bunch of money from drops, loot, completion, etc. Save that money and eventually you’ll have enough money to buy it off the TP. (Btw, 5k tokens is like what….16 exotics of 300 tokens each? That’s not much dude.)

To say “nothing” in this game guarantees progress is false. You can earn gold, save, and work towards buying it off the TP if you don’t like the randomness of the MF.

So we go back to the begining of all… Its all a matter of gold. Find the fastest way to produce gold and exploit it. Forget about whatever is out there… make gold and you are set.

Sry… GW2 really dissapointed me.

But wait. You just proved a major argument point here. You made the CHOICE to divert all your resources into getting T3 gear, weapons, etc., instead of saving up the money to purchase a Precursor from the TP.

There were two paths to take:
1) Low risk and quick reward – steady price, but good looking T3 gear
2) High risk and high reward – requires saving up Gold. Precursor pricing volatile, with the risk that you’d waste a lot of money should prices crash with future Scavenger Hunt.

Both seemed to be desirable to you, but with time constraints, you can only pick one. So you picked the path with the lowest risk, yet yielding good rewards (T3 gear). In hindsight, you now regret this decision, and really want a Precursor instead.

T3 Helm, Chest and Legs – Corrupted Weaps and dungeon shield.

that’s how I designed my look (thought I changed weapon for faction ones now)

Thats a total of what? 100g? all of it?

I have an extra 120g on my account. And that’s it. That would’ve never bought me a precursor.

Besides, we already accepted Cultural armors as a gold stand out reward.- We now have to accept precursors and legendaries as well? the whole game based on how much gold you can grind? Impressive system…

Dungeon master isn’t a requirement for a legendary, nor do I think it should be.

I’m curious as to why you think so, my good man.

Iehova.9518:

Dungeon master isn’t a requirement for a legendary, nor do I think it should be.

I’m curious as to why you think so, my good man.

It should’ve been one of the first prerequisites. People that fails at dungeons tend to say it shouldn’t, but hey! most of them sports those Legendaries… This whole thing is a big joke.

Mesket.5728:

It should’ve been one of the first prerequisites.

I personally would’ve changed Gift of Mastery to have Gift of Dungeons instead of Gift of Jumping.

Rising Dusk.2408:

You can buy and sell the end-game cosmetics of GW1, too, and yet no one complained about that. It’s curious that buying and selling the end-game cosmetics of GW2 has people in such a frenzy.

That said, it is not zero-effort to buy a legendary, either with real money via gems converted to gold or via in-game money earned as gold by any means. 1200+ gold is no small sum, and in gems that would cost $1056 US to buy outright. If someone is willing to pay an entire paycheck to ANet in order to have the gems to convert to gold to buy their legendary, then more power to them. That is a lot of real life work converted into gold, which is ultimately no less life investment than farming it all in-game. There is no zero-effort here; it’s a ton of effort no matter how you slice the cake.

To add to that my handful of copper.
1/ yes, in GW1 the end game was exactly the same. Buy ecto and shards from the trader and do 3 easy quests to unlock the crafter. Yet is was considered the most prestige armor in the game.

2/ $1000 dollars is barely 800 euros, not even a third of a normal paycheck or about minimum wage for a cleaning lady. But still a big amount to spend on a video game. Be my guest Someone has to pay the bills in Seattle.

I do think people should stop talking about third party sellers. Those who do are banned with their new shiny. Irrelevant for the discussion.

Iehova.9518:

Mesket.5728:

It should’ve been one of the first prerequisites.

I personally would’ve changed Gift of Mastery to have Gift of Dungeons instead of Gift of Jumping.

You mean replace the T6 junk in Gifts of Might and Magic by the 8 dungeon gifts? That’s a nice idea imho. As far as the Gift of Jumping goes, badges should only drop from players, should drop more often and should be added to inventory automatically.

marnick.4305:

Iehova.9518:

Mesket.5728:

It should’ve been one of the first prerequisites.

I personally would’ve changed Gift of Mastery to have Gift of Dungeons instead of Gift of Jumping.

You mean replace the T6 junk in Gifts of Might and Magic by the 8 dungeon gifts? That’s a nice idea imho. As far as the Gift of Jumping goes, badges should only drop from players, should drop more often and should be added to inventory automatically.

That, please…

fighting for hours just to get a few, then jumping 10 minutes and get dozens… doesnt make much sense.

Iehova.9518:

Dungeon master isn’t a requirement for a legendary, nor do I think it should be.

I’m curious as to why you think so, my good man.

Speaking based on my wants, in some sense I think it’d be nice if there were more “I did this” parts to a legendary. I play the game and am a good player, and can achieve basically any “do this” task thrown at me. I had multiple Gifts of Mastery before I ever had any of the other parts for legendary items. If DM were a part of that, I don’t think I’d complain because it’s a rather easy task to accomplish.

That said, I think it waters down the economical task of a legendary item. Hear me out. I think a lot of what gives the components of a legendary value on the market is that they get used in a legendary in the first place. Taking that away would have changed the economy a lot, and rendered a lot of items relatively useless. A legendary item is a material sink, and thinking in the largest scale possible, I’d say that a legendary’s component choices are as much conscious decisions to preserve economic equilibrium as, say, rares salvaging to ectos or the precursor hunt in the Mystic Forge. The legendary has a role to play in all of this, and I think that’s why so much of it can be and is driven by player gold. Stepping back and coming to terms with that for me was, at first, difficult, but makes sense to me now. Keeping the economic role of a legendary in mind, adding more “I did this” stuff to the legendary really wouldn’t improve the experience any or make it feel any more meaningful, it’d just add new layers of stuff to do, which adds tedium. You can just buy your DM title from runners anyway if you really want to, and we’d see more of that than we already do if it were a part of the legendary process, devaluing the title further. Thus, I make the case that it wouldn’t really improve the legendary process any, but it’d risk devaluing the title itself further. Therefore, it’s not a really good thing to include.

Rising Dusk.2408:

That said, I think it waters down the economical task of a legendary item. Hear me out. I think a lot of what gives the components of a legendary value on the market is that they get used in a legendary in the first place. Taking that away would have changed the economy a lot, and rendered a lot of items relatively useless.

Yes, this is exactly what we are trying to do…

Items being useless is an accident of a bad designed game, it shouldnt be our problem and they shouldnt be enforced as end game content when they are not.

I don’t understand what you’re saying. They’re a part of acquiring end-game content because ANet said they’re a part of acquiring end-game content. If it had been anything else, then that would have been a part of acquiring end-game content, and we’d be right where we started. The point is that anything that is used to create prestige cosmetic items like legendaries will always be, itself, coveted exactly because it is used for those items.

It’s not poor design at all; having an expensive and rare item use components which are themselves expensive and rare is totally acceptable, and is part of what gives legendaries their value and prestige at all.

Rising Dusk.2408:

You can just buy your DM title from runners anyway if you really want to,

With all of Arenanet’s warnings about account security, it seems highly unlikely that any sensible player would risk giving their account details (and money) to total strangers in return for them playing the game for them. “Runners” are simply not a feasible excuse for leaving the current system in place. Arenanet know this, which is why they are changing it.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I don’t understand what you’re saying. They’re a part of acquiring end-game content because ANet said they’re a part of acquiring end-game content. If it had been anything else, then that would have been a part of acquiring end-game content, and we’d be right where we started. The point is that anything that is used to create prestige cosmetic items like legendaries will always be, itself, coveted exactly because it is used for those items.

It’s not poor design at all; having an expensive and rare item use components which are themselves expensive and rare is totally acceptable, and is part of what gives legendaries their value and prestige at all.

No offense, but you should probably stop beating your head against this wall as I have. No matter how well you explain it, they still won’t get it because they’re blinded by their own “wants”. Rarely have I seen an argument about the Trading Post price of a Legendary or precursor that can’t be boiled down to….

“Poor me. Poor me. I want a Legendary, but it costs too much.”

Players rarely think beyond themselves. Players rarely think about the game as a whole. Players rarely think about the true difference between casuals and hard core gamers.

I’m sure someone will comment that I’m “just a fanboi” or that “of course you don’t care about the price you already have one / manipulate the TP / bought it with real money / scammed someone / used gold sellers / etc.”.

Many of the complaints I see are just players trying to blame someone else using wild speculation and statements they claim are “fact” so that they can get their shiny faster. Very rarely do I come across a well reasoned argument that makes me sit up and take notice.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I don’t understand what you’re saying. They’re a part of acquiring end-game content because ANet said they’re a part of acquiring end-game content. If it had been anything else, then that would have been a part of acquiring end-game content, and we’d be right where we started. The point is that anything that is used to create prestige cosmetic items like legendaries will always be, itself, coveted exactly because it is used for those items.

It’s not poor design at all; having an expensive and rare item use components which are themselves expensive and rare is totally acceptable, and is part of what gives legendaries their value and prestige at all.

No offense, but you should probably stop beating your head against this wall as I have. No matter how well you explain it, they still won’t get it because they’re blinded by their own “wants”. Rarely have I seen an argument about the Trading Post price of a Legendary or precursor that can’t be boiled down to….

“Poor me. Poor me. I want a Legendary, but it costs too much.”

Players rarely think beyond themselves. Players rarely think about the game as a whole. Players rarely think about the true difference between casuals and hard core gamers.

I’m sure someone will comment that I’m “just a fanboi” or that “of course you don’t care about the price you already have one / manipulate the TP / bought it with real money / scammed someone / used gold sellers / etc.”.

Many of the complaints I see are just players trying to blame someone else using wild speculation and statements they claim are “fact” so that they can get their shiny faster. Very rarely do I come across a well reasoned argument that makes me sit up and take notice.

no matter how many times we try to explain it to you, you just dont get it cause you fail to understand the game as a whole. All you can see is that farm farm farm farm farm,… farm some more and get profit. That’s what a legendary is to you.

Get out of the grinding/farming bubble and realize that many players want an end game reward for reaching the end of the game, not the same repetitive thing over and over again.

Don’t place yourself above others when you are exactly at the same level of opinion but on the other shore. You accept how it is right now and will grind your bones out till you get one, good for you. I want to get a reward because I play the game and completed all content, not just economic race which is already included as handicap on a legendary on the icy runes. The rest should come with playing and not with buying (of course im talking about time frames compatible with life, not 0,00001% drop rate for things you need in the hundreds).

Can you understand now?

Mesket.5728:

Can you understand now?

I do understand your point, but the point you’re trying to make is about a luxury item. If this conversation had to deal with how “out of reach” Exotic armor or an Exotic weapon was, then I would totally be on your side. The problem is, that’s NOT what we’re talking about. I hope you don’t try to make the argument that we are talking about an Exotic weapon because a precursor is an Exotic. While that argument is true, it too isn’t the point. A precursor is a single, specific, Exotic weapon used in crafting a single, specific, Legendary weapon.

ArenaNet has heard all of the complaints about acquiring a precursor weapon and they ARE doing something about it, but it’s not happening right this very second. The complaints are about not being able to get your precursor NOW!!!!!

If you treat a Legendary, and by extension, it’s precursor, as a long-term goal, I have a feeling you may find yourself much happier with the game. If you don’t want to treat it like a long-term goal and you want it right now, then you’re left with using one of the 3 ways of acquiring it: Random world drop, Mystic Forge, or buying it off the TP.

If your argument is that the price of a given precursor is too high on the Trading Post, I would disagree with you.

Check out this website: http://gw2legendary.com/

Each Legendary requires 3 gifts and 1 precursor to make. Now, compare the costs required to craft a given gift vs. the cost of its precursor. If you don’t assume that Skill Points, Karma and dungeon tokens are free….the costs of each of the 4 parts are pretty well in line with each other. The cost of a precursor for a more highly sought after and desired Legendary is higher….which it should be because THAT item is more in demand.

What that tells me is that the methods of acquiring a precursor and / or its cost to buy it from the Trading Post are in line with a luxury item with the title of Legendary.

If Anet gives us another way to acquire precursors, all that will do is make these luxury items more attainable by more people, thereby making them less “legendary”.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

No offense, but you should probably stop beating your head against this wall as I have. No matter how well you explain it, they still won’t get it because they’re blinded by their own “wants”. (…)

Mesket.5728:

no matter how many times we try to explain it to you, you just dont get it cause you fail to understand the game as a whole. All you can see is that farm farm farm farm farm,… farm some more and get profit. That’s what a legendary is to you.

Get out of the grinding/farming bubble and realize that many players want an end game reward for reaching the end of the game, not the same repetitive thing over and over again.

I think there’s more to it than that, for both of you. I understand that people want to feel rewarded for “beating” a game. The problem with Mesket’s reasoning is that he assumes that a legendary, being the highest echelon of weapon available, must be that reward. What about the pact weapon you get for beating the personal story? You don’t like that because it’s not as flashy as a legendary? I understand that, but you’re still getting a cool skin for beating the story! This is why people like Ham speak about things like entitlement. You, Mesket, feel entitled to get the best and coolest weapon possible when you “beat a game”, whatever that means in the context of an MMORPG. Think about that for a second, too, can you even ‘beat’ an MMORPG? I’d argue that you can’t, and that is the crux of the challenge here. A player must set their own goals and then work toward achieving them. Legendary items cost a ton of gold, and indeed that’s the whole point. There is a fixed amount of gold they cost, but the rest of their value comes from supply and demand, an economical concept controlled by the players. The more coveted something is compared to how easy/difficult it is to get is what sets its price by the players, and that is why precursors continue to be priced so high and the pact weapons so low.

Coming to terms with how the economy interacts with this is important. Mesket, you clearly want a legendary item, and so you have chosen the highest tier of gear you can possibly work towards. This will either take a tremendous amount of farming or a tremendous amount of luck or a tremendous amount of RL money. The components are rare, but attainable within reason. The BLTP is a part of the game like any other, and true mastery of the game involves gold just like it involves beating dungeons or exploring the map. I realize it is difficult to accept that you can’t just casual-play for a month and get a legendary, but it was specifically designed to be above and beyond that for the more hardcore players who really want something to reach for. By choosing to want one, you are choosing to challenge yourself in these ways. If you’re not willing to accept that challenge, then maybe a legendary isn’t for you. Others are paying the huge prices for precursors and mats because they have accepted that challenge. It’s important that you be prepared for the commitment if you want to make it.

Svarty.8019:

With all of Arenanet’s warnings about account security, it seems highly unlikely that any sensible player would risk giving their account details (and money) to total strangers in return for them playing the game for them. “Runners” are simply not a feasible excuse for leaving the current system in place. Arenanet know this, which is why they are changing it.

That’s not how it’s achieved. What people do is sell slots at the boss of a dungeon. This has been a prevalent attitude in recent months in the Dungeons forum (Selling Arah p4 runs, for instance). There are even a couple relevant front page threads about it currently.

Rising, of course I didn’t beat the game; I’m not being literal here… it’s a way of saying that are no set of goals to get this shiny reward but ways of repeating the same grinding fest for gold.

I don’t care how long the process is (played MMOs since 1997 and played many for years, that is my intention with this one) as far as its not related to gold farming which is the “anti-heroic, anti-adventuring” way of playing (Unless you tell me that the best way to get gold is by entering this very very hard zone full of veterans 84 and overcome the odds but its not).

You just listed our complains:

“This will either take a tremendous amount of farming (money) or a tremendous amount of luck (0,00001%? or money) or a tremendous amount of RL money (money)”

This is what people like me complain about.

“The components are rare, but attainable within reason.”

No, they are not. Try crafting a Legendary without steping into the TP once. Just calculate the ammount of time and grinding with all the DR mechanics in game.

(this is why the other guy failed to see the game as a whole, some people forget we are under heavy DR when we already have extremely low drop rates, killer mechanic for people who likes to get things their own).

I’d like to point out that it is illogical to never use the TP. Why in the world would you insist on personally handicapping yourself? I’m not telling you to flip or to sit in LA for hours making marginal profits, but buying/selling items to other players is an integral part of the game.

I casually farm SSC every night before bed because it’s fun and relaxing, and I get anywhere from 5-9 Powerful Blood per run. I can then sell those T6 mats on the market and use them to help with other parts of the legendary, or keep them and stash them for my own legendary. If I can get 5-9 of the most valuable T6 material in one night, I can translate that to a few months of work, all the while making progress toward my legendary. With clovers you also make progress, as you do with the gift of mastery, and same with the gift of the weapon. Once you have all of those, you can play the game normally and casually make money, and eventually you’ll be able to get your legendary. If you’re not in a rush to get it tomorrow, then there’s no problem. Eventually you’ll be able to afford it. That’s how I did it, and that’s how you can do it too.

Heck, I WvW more than anything else in this game, and even I can get a legendary despite the abysmal rewards in WvW. It’s a matter of dedication and anyone can do it.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’d like to point out that it is illogical to never use the TP. Why in the world would you insist on personally handicapping yourself? I’m not telling you to flip or to sit in LA for hours making marginal profits, but buying/selling items to other players is an integral part of the game.

I casually farm SSC every night before bed because it’s fun and relaxing, and I get anywhere from 5-9 Powerful Blood per run. I can then sell those T6 mats on the market and use them to help with other parts of the legendary, or keep them and stash them for my own legendary. If I can get 5-9 of the most valuable T6 material in one night, I can translate that to a few months of work, all the while making progress toward my legendary. With clovers you also make progress, as you do with the gift of mastery, and same with the gift of the weapon. Once you have all of those, you can play the game normally and casually make money, and eventually you’ll be able to get your legendary. If you’re not in a rush to get it tomorrow, then there’s no problem. Eventually you’ll be able to afford it. That’s how I did it, and that’s how you can do it too.

Heck, I WvW more than anything else in this game, and even I can get a legendary despite the abysmal rewards in WvW. It’s a matter of dedication and anyone can do it.

Again, not using the TP was hypothetical; pointing out that times to get the things needed are not within reason. TP should be there just to fasten things up when you have little left to get… Not to buy the majority if not all of it.