Guild Wars 2

People have this unhealthy fixation on precursors. They seem to think that they are horribly expensive and everyone seems to have all 3 legendary gifts ready but the evil precursors are holding them back. This thread is designed to put some actual numbers to those claims and see what the costs actually are and how they compare.

I will not talk about the Gift of Mastery because none of the parts can be bought, they are all earned through various play styles.

First lets look at the gift of Fortune:

T6 mats- 250 of each type. Given market buy prices this will cost 249g as of writing. Using market sell prices this will cost 264g
250 ectos= 94g
77mystic clovers- 94g for ectos and 20g for mystic coins

Total cost = 457g

Next the Gift of " ". This one is different for different weapons, but I will look at the cost of 3 of the more popular ones. Bolt, Twilight and Incinerator.

Gift of Bolt: 475g
Icy Runestone: 100g
Gift of lightning: 358g
-100 Charged lodestone- 330g
-250 Ori ingot- 16.5g
-250 bolt of gossomer- 12.4g
Gift of Metal: 19g

Gift of Twlight:312.5g
Icy Runestone: 100g
Gift of Darkness: 193.5g
-100 lodestones- 175g
– 250 Ori- 16.5g
-250 leather- 2g
Gift of Metal: 19g

Gift of Incinerator:309g
Icy Runestone: 100g
Vial of liquid flame:
-Molten lodestone- 65g
-Destroyer lodestone- 125g
Gift of Metal- 19g

Finally lets look at the prices of the precursors for these same 3:

Zap: 320-390g
Dusk: 620-700g
Spark: 570-620g

As we can see, if you are making Bolt, the precursor is actually the cheapest part of the legendary. If you are making Twlight or Incinerator then the cost of the precursor is still less then the cost of the other 2 gifts.

The problem is you can break apart the other gifts and slowly buy the parts you need. For the precursors people need to save up a lump sum, and most people don’t have the self control to do that. They spend spend spend, instead of saving. If you actually have the other 2 gifts then you are capable of getting your precursor, you just need to stop spending and start saving.

The precursor prices have risen at roughly the same rate as the cost of the other gifts. As mats get more expensive, so do the things those mats are used to make.

Thank you…. I’ve tried making this point elsewhere but without breaking down the costs in such a granular fashion. Hopefully this will help people see the light a bit.

Wow thanks, finally I can slap some sense into those “OMG PRECURSORS, I WAN MY LEGENDARIII NAOOOOOOO” people.

Time to get out the salmon stick.

You can farm most of the materials you are putting prices to. I’m sure most people farm most of the mats as opposed to buying it all. Plus the process of making your clovers will also give you a bunch of T6 mats.

I know at least for myself, the precursor is far more expensive that the combined expense of everything else, mostly because I didn’t buy most of it.

Great Post, thanks for the overview!

laharl.8435:

You can farm most of the materials you are putting prices to. I’m sure most people farm most of the mats as opposed to buying it all. Plus the process of making your clovers will also give you a bunch of T6 mats.

I know at least for myself, the precursor is far more expensive that the combined expense of everything else, mostly because I didn’t buy most of it.

But that sort of argument is the equivalent of saying: Exotic equipment is free because I crafted it with materials I had. You had assets which could liquidate to money and instead turned it into an item which, in it’s own right, has value, as well.

With exception to lodestones/precursor one can actually go out obtain every other component via game play within reason. That said the costs of those components are not exactly comparable due to availability.

Edit ninja while posting

laharl.8435:

laharl.8435:

You can farm most of the materials you are putting prices to. I’m sure most people farm most of the mats as opposed to buying it all. Plus the process of making your clovers will also give you a bunch of T6 mats.

I know at least for myself, the precursor is far more expensive that the combined expense of everything else, mostly because I didn’t buy most of it.

But that sort of argument is the equivalent of saying: Exotic equipment is free because I crafted it with materials I had. You had assets which could liquidate to money and instead turned it into an item which, in it’s own right, has value, as well.

It’s more so about having the alternative/option.

laharl.8435:

You can farm most of the materials you are putting prices to. I’m sure most people farm most of the mats as opposed to buying it all. Plus the process of making your clovers will also give you a bunch of T6 mats.

I know at least for myself, the precursor is far more expensive that the combined expense of everything else, mostly because I didn’t buy most of it.

You are correct you can farm the mats if you desire. However those mats still have the same value associated with them. At any time you can choose to sell the mats you’ve farmed and get the stated value for them (obviously a simplification, but pretty close).

You can do the same thing for the precursor if it makes you feel better. Dusk costs:

250x all T6 mats
500 ectos
100 destroyer lodestones

when you collect those mats, instead of throwing them into the MF, throw them into the TP and they will yield you the money to buy a Dusk.

Essence Snow.3194:

With exception to lodestones/precursor one can actually go out obtain every other component via game play within reason. That said the costs of those components are not exactly comparable due to availability.

Edit ninja while posting

laharl.8435:

laharl.8435:

You can farm most of the materials you are putting prices to. I’m sure most people farm most of the mats as opposed to buying it all. Plus the process of making your clovers will also give you a bunch of T6 mats.

I know at least for myself, the precursor is far more expensive that the combined expense of everything else, mostly because I didn’t buy most of it.

But that sort of argument is the equivalent of saying: Exotic equipment is free because I crafted it with materials I had. You had assets which could liquidate to money and instead turned it into an item which, in it’s own right, has value, as well.

It’s more so about having the alternative/option.

Agreed, however, the cost is still there in terms of value that you had obtained through means other than the standard gold —> item.

If I have 10 Charged Lodestones and Lodestones are currently worth 4g ea, I essentially have 40g. Of course, we are ignoring TP taxes, but in terms of raw item value, that’s what I have. I can subtract 40g from the price of my Gift just the same as if I had 40g and I was trying to buy a Precursor. I can subtract 40g from the cost of a Precursor and that’s how much I need left.

EDIT:

You are correct you can farm the mats if you desire. However those mats still have the same value associated with them. At any time you can choose to sell the mats you’ve farmed and get the stated value for them (obviously a simplification, but pretty close).

You can do the same thing for the precursor if it makes you feel better. Dusk costs:

250x all T6 mats
500 ectos
100 destroyer lodestones

when you collect those mats, instead of throwing them into the MF, throw them into the TP and they will yield you the money to buy a Dusk.

Ninja’ed, this guy said what I said.

Once again i will reiterate, the problem is multifold.

a lot of people enjoy obtaining their rewards themself, or at least a rough direction. They enjoy doing activities that lead towards X. Maybe they wont hunt every single piece, but they like to be able to hunt. You simply cant do this with precursors in anyway that has any tangible progress.

A great many people do not like hoarding money: you say they cant save or have no self control, this may be true, however john smith said about 10 to 15% of people enjoy amassing large amounts of wealth, this means the large majority of players do not.
long story short its not fun for a lot of players.

The key here, is that some people are huge believers in monetization, they love turning everything they do into money. When you have that type of belief, its all the same, everything goes back to how much money it costs, and how much it earns. The game is designed with a HEAVY focus on monetization, however, its important to note, that a great many people do not enjoy monetization. many people like materialism, they like to get an obtain actual things, many others like experiences, they want do and experience interesting things, others like to progress.

Precursor works against all of these people, due to the heavy monetization focus and where that leads.

Experiences are anti rewarded in terms of money. 9/10 times doing something that is mostly for the new interesting experience pays very poorly.

Materialism, when it comes to precursors, materialist need not apply, the only reliable way to get it is to liquidate all of your goods. And you cant hunt it and get the precursor yourself.

Progress lovers simply cannot progress to legendary, except by saving gold. this can be seen as progress, except the price continues to rise, for some people they cannot reach the point of earning toward legendary.

long story short. Precursor is the most ungratifying part of the legendary process, many people dont get that much joy out of directly purchasing something.
Its hard for many people in this subforum to understand, because they mostly think monetarily.

First off, you lose 15% from selling your mats. So they are not full value as people are saying here. Second, you will also gain many T6 mats from making clovers, so it is false to give full price to the mat gift estimates.

Another point that applies with me and I’m sure others. Some of us haven’t always sold mats. I have always kept them. I do a lot of crafting and it’s nice to keep them on hand. So those mats don’t necessarily translate to market value for us, because we have never used them as such.

Fact is, for people that play like myself anyway, we don’t have to put as much gold into the other parts of the legendary as we do the precursor.

Last, just to note, I am not a precursor whiner nor have I ever been. It’s not up to me to objectify its value. It is what it is. But for myself at least, it the by far the largest gold sink in the equation.

phys.7689:

Once again i will reiterate, the problem is multifold.

a lot of people enjoy obtaining their rewards themself, or at least a rough direction. They enjoy doing activities that lead towards X. Maybe they wont hunt every single piece, but they like to be able to hunt. You simply cant do this with precursors in anyway that has any tangible progress.

A great many people do not like hoarding money: you say they cant save or have no self control, this may be true, however john smith said about 10 to 15% of people enjoy amassing large amounts of wealth, this means the large majority of players do not.
long story short its not fun for a lot of players.

The key here, is that some people are huge believers in monetization, they love turning everything they do into money. When you have that type of belief, its all the same, everything goes back to how much money it costs, and how much it earns. The game is designed with a HEAVY focus on monetization, however, its important to note, that a great many people do not enjoy monetization. many people like materialism, they like to get an obtain actual things, many others like experiences, they want do and experience interesting things, others like to progress.

Precursor works against all of these people, due to the heavy monetization focus and where that leads.

Experiences are anti rewarded in terms of money. 9/10 times doing something that is mostly for the new interesting experience pays very poorly.

Materialism, when it comes to precursors, materialist need not apply, the only reliable way to get it is to liquidate all of your goods. And you cant hunt it and get the precursor yourself.

Progress lovers simply cannot progress to legendary, except by saving gold. this can be seen as progress, except the price continues to rise, for some people they cannot reach the point of earning toward legendary.

long story short. Precursor is the most ungratifying part of the legendary process, many people dont get that much joy out of directly purchasing something.
Its hard for many people in this subforum to understand, because they mostly think monetarily.

Nice post 15 charrrrrrrrr

Shouldn’t the precursor be something obtainable via other means then just buying it from some TP leech? Personally I’d rather dump 1000g worth of rares into MF than make some goldseller/TP manipulator rich.

phys.7689:

Once again i will reiterate, the problem is multifold.

a lot of people enjoy obtaining their rewards themself, or at least a rough direction. They enjoy doing activities that lead towards X. Maybe they wont hunt every single piece, but they like to be able to hunt. You simply cant do this with precursors in anyway that has any tangible progress.

A great many people do not like hoarding money: you say they cant save or have no self control, this may be true, however john smith said about 10 to 15% of people enjoy amassing large amounts of wealth, this means the large majority of players do not.
long story short its not fun for a lot of players.

The key here, is that some people are huge believers in monetization, they love turning everything they do into money. When you have that type of belief, its all the same, everything goes back to how much money it costs, and how much it earns. The game is designed with a HEAVY focus on monetization, however, its important to note, that a great many people do not enjoy monetization. many people like materialism, they like to get an obtain actual things, many others like experiences, they want do and experience interesting things, others like to progress.

Precursor works against all of these people, due to the heavy monetization focus and where that leads.

Experiences are anti rewarded in terms of money. 9/10 times doing something that is mostly for the new interesting experience pays very poorly.

Materialism, when it comes to precursors, materialist need not apply, the only reliable way to get it is to liquidate all of your goods. And you cant hunt it and get the precursor yourself.

Progress lovers simply cannot progress to legendary, except by saving gold. this can be seen as progress, except the price continues to rise, for some people they cannot reach the point of earning toward legendary.

long story short. Precursor is the most ungratifying part of the legendary process, many people dont get that much joy out of directly purchasing something.
Its hard for many people in this subforum to understand, because they mostly think monetarily.

I can see where you are coming from. Something in the form of progress to build up to a precursor would be much more gratifying for many people. Maybe I can make another thread that gives “recipes” for precursors. Should be simple enough, just have to find the right combination of items that have been increasing in price at roughly the same rate as the precursors. This would give people something to work towards, which wouldn’t be affected by inflation, and would ultimately lead to them getting a precursor.

Obviously the devs could one up me and do the same thing but make it a mystic forge recipe, but that comes with a whole other set of problems such as the market adjusting to the new recipes making them more expensive then originally.

laharl.8435:

First off, you lose 15% from selling your mats. So they are not full value as people are saying here. Second, you will also gain many T6 mats from making clovers, so it is false to give full price to the mat gift estimates.

Another point that applies with me and I’m sure others. Some of us haven’t always sold mats. I have always kept them. I do a lot of crafting and it’s nice to keep them on hand. So those mats don’t necessarily translate to market value for us, because we have never used them as such.

Fact is, for people that play like myself anyway, we don’t have to put as much gold into the other parts of the legendary as we do the precursor.

Last, just to note, I am not a precursor whiner nor have I ever been. It’s not up to me to objectify its value. It is what it is. But for myseslf at least, it the by far the largest gold sink in the equation.

RAW VALUE. RAW. You’re converting it into goods that you’re using for something else, so if you want to see how much you’re “saving” you need to see how much you’d have paid. It’s like saying Cup of Noodle is worth $20+ each because you have to get a license to sell them and a store front. It’s standardized price is $1 ea (which is still a large amount greater than the price of a single Cup of Noodle) because that’s how much you buy it when you’re buying in singles.

Fact: Regardless of whether or not you’re putting straight gold into your legendary, you’re putting in just as much gold as the guy next to you. It’s called assets and net worth.

Lastly: Your wording here is correct, I see no false things to object.

Bartas.4908:

Shouldn’t the precursor be something obtainable via other means then just buying it from some TP leech? Personally I’d rather dump 1000g worth of rares into MF than make some goldseller/TP manipulator rich.

Considering we have no proof that the goldsellers/TP manipulators are doing what they do, you’re benefiting them by using the TP to get all those rares.

Bartas.4908:

Shouldn’t the precursor be something obtainable via other means then just buying it from some TP leech? Personally I’d rather dump 1000g worth of rares into MF than make some goldseller/TP manipulator rich.

I will happily sell you those rares as a method to acquire the money I need to buy the precursor I want

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The problem is you can break apart the other gifts and slowly buy the parts you need. For the precursors people need to save up a lump sum, and most people don’t have the self control to do that. They spend spend spend, instead of saving. If you actually have the other 2 gifts then you are capable of getting your precursor, you just need to stop spending and start saving.

HAHAHAHAHAHA…. the precursors rise much faster than most peoples’ gold income. You can have all the self control on the world and NEVER reach the price of a precursor unless you’re a basement dwelling NEET or abusing the cash shop liberally.

plasmacutter.2709:

HAHAHAHAHAHA…. the precursors rise much faster than most peoples’ gold income. You can have all the self control on the world and NEVER reach the price of a precursor unless you’re a basement dwelling NEET or abusing the cash shop liberally.

Wrong on so many levels. If you do any of the current gold farms you can easily make 50g a day. Are you saying that Precursors are increasing by 50g a day, because I sure don’t see that.

plasmacutter.2709:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The problem is you can break apart the other gifts and slowly buy the parts you need. For the precursors people need to save up a lump sum, and most people don’t have the self control to do that. They spend spend spend, instead of saving. If you actually have the other 2 gifts then you are capable of getting your precursor, you just need to stop spending and start saving.

HAHAHAHAHAHA…. the precursors rise much faster than most peoples’ gold income. You can have all the self control on the world and NEVER reach the price of a precursor unless you’re a basement dwelling NEET or abusing the cash shop liberally.

And some day they will stop rising because they are at the value people think they are willing to pay?

Esplen.3940:

plasmacutter.2709:

HAHAHAHAHAHA…. the precursors rise much faster than most peoples’ gold income. You can have all the self control on the world and NEVER reach the price of a precursor unless you’re a basement dwelling NEET or abusing the cash shop liberally.

Wrong on so many levels. If you do any of the current gold farms you can easily make 50g a day. Are you saying that Precursors are increasing by 50g a day, because I sure don’t see that.

If by “a day” you mean 24 hours, sure. but since I only play about 3-4 hours/day, I make about 50g/week.

mcarswell.3768:

Esplen.3940:

plasmacutter.2709:

HAHAHAHAHAHA…. the precursors rise much faster than most peoples’ gold income. You can have all the self control on the world and NEVER reach the price of a precursor unless you’re a basement dwelling NEET or abusing the cash shop liberally.

Wrong on so many levels. If you do any of the current gold farms you can easily make 50g a day. Are you saying that Precursors are increasing by 50g a day, because I sure don’t see that.

If by “a day” you mean 24 hours, sure. but since I only play about 3-4 hours/day, I make about 50g/week.

Do you count the ectos and salvages and drops you get as monetary value?

Solo.9027:

Do people not know about this site?
http://gw2legendary.com

I just came.

Esplen.3940:

laharl.8435:

First off, you lose 15% from selling your mats. So they are not full value as people are saying here. Second, you will also gain many T6 mats from making clovers, so it is false to give full price to the mat gift estimates.

Another point that applies with me and I’m sure others. Some of us haven’t always sold mats. I have always kept them. I do a lot of crafting and it’s nice to keep them on hand. So those mats don’t necessarily translate to market value for us, because we have never used them as such.

Fact is, for people that play like myself anyway, we don’t have to put as much gold into the other parts of the legendary as we do the precursor.

Last, just to note, I am not a precursor whiner nor have I ever been. It’s not up to me to objectify its value. It is what it is. But for myself at least, it the by far the largest gold sink in the equation.

RAW VALUE. RAW. You’re converting it into goods that you’re using for something else, so if you want to see how much you’re “saving” you need to see how much you’d have paid. It’s like saying Cup of Noodle is worth $20+ each because you have to get a license to sell them and a store front. It’s standardized price is $1 ea (which is still a large amount greater than the price of a single Cup of Noodle) because that’s how much you buy it when you’re buying in singles.

Fact: Regardless of whether or not you’re putting straight gold into your legendary, you’re putting in just as much gold as the guy next to you. It’s called assets and net worth.

Lastly: Your wording here is correct, I see no false things to object.

Except for the fact that I’m not putting as much gold into it if the other guy bought all his items from the TP. Not counting the other fact that the prices would vary wildy depending on the time of said purchase.

I’m not saying precursors are too expensive. I’m saying this itemization is flawed because it does not apply to many people, not to mention again the fundamental flaws.

Also, not everyone can “easily make 50g a day” from farming. So if people are easily doing this, then the people who are putting in actual effort must be making what, 100g, 150g a day?

laharl.8435:

Esplen.3940:

laharl.8435:

First off, you lose 15% from selling your mats. So they are not full value as people are saying here. Second, you will also gain many T6 mats from making clovers, so it is false to give full price to the mat gift estimates.

Another point that applies with me and I’m sure others. Some of us haven’t always sold mats. I have always kept them. I do a lot of crafting and it’s nice to keep them on hand. So those mats don’t necessarily translate to market value for us, because we have never used them as such.

Fact is, for people that play like myself anyway, we don’t have to put as much gold into the other parts of the legendary as we do the precursor.

Last, just to note, I am not a precursor whiner nor have I ever been. It’s not up to me to objectify its value. It is what it is. But for myself at least, it the by far the largest gold sink in the equation.

RAW VALUE. RAW. You’re converting it into goods that you’re using for something else, so if you want to see how much you’re “saving” you need to see how much you’d have paid. It’s like saying Cup of Noodle is worth $20+ each because you have to get a license to sell them and a store front. It’s standardized price is $1 ea (which is still a large amount greater than the price of a single Cup of Noodle) because that’s how much you buy it when you’re buying in singles.

Fact: Regardless of whether or not you’re putting straight gold into your legendary, you’re putting in just as much gold as the guy next to you. It’s called assets and net worth.

Lastly: Your wording here is correct, I see no false things to object.

Except for the fact that I’m not putting as much gold into it if the other guy bought all his items from the TP. Not counting the other fact that the prices would vary wildy depending on the time of said purchase.

I’m not saying precursors are too expensive. I’m saying this itemization is flawed because it does not apply to many people, not to mention again the fundamental flaws.

Also, not everyone can “easily make 50g a day” from farming. So if people are easily doing this, then the people who are putting in actual effort must be making what, 100g, 150g a day?

And now you’re misinterpreting and blowing my words out of proportion. There are limits to how much anyone can make. You also have to account for DR.

Going back to your first retort, sure, you might not have spent as much gold, but you’ve just knocked off just as much gold from the final product (in terms of Legendary) as the other guy. It’s a matter of item value and worth. You can keep arguing that you’re not buying any from the TP, but the items retain their value and worth no matter how you use it.

If I take 250 Charged Lodestones and destroy them, I am breaking my assets. I am throwing away my stocks, essentially. I haven’t liquidated them, so they are nothing but words, but they still have worth.

Esplen.3940:

laharl.8435:

Esplen.3940:

laharl.8435:

First off, you lose 15% from selling your mats. So they are not full value as people are saying here. Second, you will also gain many T6 mats from making clovers, so it is false to give full price to the mat gift estimates.

Another point that applies with me and I’m sure others. Some of us haven’t always sold mats. I have always kept them. I do a lot of crafting and it’s nice to keep them on hand. So those mats don’t necessarily translate to market value for us, because we have never used them as such.

Fact is, for people that play like myself anyway, we don’t have to put as much gold into the other parts of the legendary as we do the precursor.

Last, just to note, I am not a precursor whiner nor have I ever been. It’s not up to me to objectify its value. It is what it is. But for myself at least, it the by far the largest gold sink in the equation.

RAW VALUE. RAW. You’re converting it into goods that you’re using for something else, so if you want to see how much you’re “saving” you need to see how much you’d have paid. It’s like saying Cup of Noodle is worth $20+ each because you have to get a license to sell them and a store front. It’s standardized price is $1 ea (which is still a large amount greater than the price of a single Cup of Noodle) because that’s how much you buy it when you’re buying in singles.

Fact: Regardless of whether or not you’re putting straight gold into your legendary, you’re putting in just as much gold as the guy next to you. It’s called assets and net worth.

Lastly: Your wording here is correct, I see no false things to object.

Except for the fact that I’m not putting as much gold into it if the other guy bought all his items from the TP. Not counting the other fact that the prices would vary wildy depending on the time of said purchase.

I’m not saying precursors are too expensive. I’m saying this itemization is flawed because it does not apply to many people, not to mention again the fundamental flaws.

Also, not everyone can “easily make 50g a day” from farming. So if people are easily doing this, then the people who are putting in actual effort must be making what, 100g, 150g a day?

And now you’re misinterpreting and blowing my words out of proportion. There are limits to how much anyone can make. You also have to account for DR.

Going back to your first retort, sure, you might not have spent as much gold, but you’ve just knocked off just as much gold from the final product (in terms of Legendary) as the other guy. It’s a matter of item value and worth. You can keep arguing that you’re not buying any from the TP, but the items retain their value and worth no matter how you use it.

If I take 250 Charged Lodestones and destroy them, I am breaking my assets. I am throwing away my stocks, essentially. I haven’t liquidated them, so they are nothing but words, but they still have worth.

But I haven’t knocked off the same amount as someone using the TP. If you insist on assigning market value to items that will not be liquidated for monetary gain, then the person going through the TP is instantly at a 15% disadvantage.

Stocks are assigned monetary value, but those values are essentially meaningless (within relation to the game). The only value that matters is the value upon liquidation. My items will not be liquidated for monetary gain, they have no monetary use, they are not stocks. They have no discernible monetary value as I would not have bought the items if I did not farm them. So they did not save me money either, because they aren’t replacing something I would have purchased.

This itemization simply does not work across the board. It depends on how you obtain your legendary.

laharl.8435:

Esplen.3940:

laharl.8435:

Esplen.3940:

laharl.8435:

First off, you lose 15% from selling your mats. So they are not full value as people are saying here. Second, you will also gain many T6 mats from making clovers, so it is false to give full price to the mat gift estimates.

Another point that applies with me and I’m sure others. Some of us haven’t always sold mats. I have always kept them. I do a lot of crafting and it’s nice to keep them on hand. So those mats don’t necessarily translate to market value for us, because we have never used them as such.

Fact is, for people that play like myself anyway, we don’t have to put as much gold into the other parts of the legendary as we do the precursor.

Last, just to note, I am not a precursor whiner nor have I ever been. It’s not up to me to objectify its value. It is what it is. But for myself at least, it the by far the largest gold sink in the equation.

RAW VALUE. RAW. You’re converting it into goods that you’re using for something else, so if you want to see how much you’re “saving” you need to see how much you’d have paid. It’s like saying Cup of Noodle is worth $20+ each because you have to get a license to sell them and a store front. It’s standardized price is $1 ea (which is still a large amount greater than the price of a single Cup of Noodle) because that’s how much you buy it when you’re buying in singles.

Fact: Regardless of whether or not you’re putting straight gold into your legendary, you’re putting in just as much gold as the guy next to you. It’s called assets and net worth.

Lastly: Your wording here is correct, I see no false things to object.

Except for the fact that I’m not putting as much gold into it if the other guy bought all his items from the TP. Not counting the other fact that the prices would vary wildy depending on the time of said purchase.

I’m not saying precursors are too expensive. I’m saying this itemization is flawed because it does not apply to many people, not to mention again the fundamental flaws.

Also, not everyone can “easily make 50g a day” from farming. So if people are easily doing this, then the people who are putting in actual effort must be making what, 100g, 150g a day?

And now you’re misinterpreting and blowing my words out of proportion. There are limits to how much anyone can make. You also have to account for DR.

Going back to your first retort, sure, you might not have spent as much gold, but you’ve just knocked off just as much gold from the final product (in terms of Legendary) as the other guy. It’s a matter of item value and worth. You can keep arguing that you’re not buying any from the TP, but the items retain their value and worth no matter how you use it.

If I take 250 Charged Lodestones and destroy them, I am breaking my assets. I am throwing away my stocks, essentially. I haven’t liquidated them, so they are nothing but words, but they still have worth.

But I haven’t knocked off the same amount as someone using the TP. If you insist on assigning market value to items that will not be liquidated for monetary gain, then the person going through the TP is instantly at a 15% disadvantage.

Stocks are assigned monetary value, but those values are essentially meaningless (within relation to the game). The only value that matters is the value upon liquidation. My items will not be liquidated for monetary gain, they have no monetary use, they are not stocks. They have no discernible monetary value as I would not have bought the items if I did not farm them. So they did not save me money either, because they aren’t replacing something I would have purchased.

This itemization simply does not work across the board. It depends on how you obtain your legendary.

Wrong, the person utilizing the Trading Post is using their gold on hand. They are not liquidating their assets. You are not liquidating your assets, therefore the value assigned to your asset is the raw value. If you wish to perceive it as the market value after tax is applied, feel free to do so, however it would be a global application that would also apply to whomever bought it, as it is now one of their assets.

Anything you apply would be applied globally. The only problem with this method is that the person buying from the Trading Post would suddenly be down 15% gross gold compared to you. This makes no sense at all.

I never felt with the desire of complaining about how we currently get the precursor but after playing since day 1 I was able to get everything needed for my legend except for the precursor, when I realized I had most of things I needed to get it I felt happy. somehow all my storyline and gameplaying is “bearing fruit” but after watching precursor price I felt disappointed, am I supposed to spend a entire day or hours farming so I can get this weapon? how is that challenging? I could just get some chinese gold and I’m done…. there is no real challenge to me on that….. so I just quit…. yep sadly I gave up on my legend

It’s like finding items I plan to use for a project, a project that I do not plan on buying items for. Say I find parts for a bicycle, I intend to only use these parts for building a bicycle. There is no selling of the parts or any intention of monetary gain. There are also no pre-defined values because if I do not find parts I simply do not have them. If I find all the parts, I build the bicycle. I did not save a defined amount of money, because the bicycle simply would not have been built if I did not find the parts. There was never any intention of buying parts, so I did not save money that would not have been spent in the first place. There is absolutely nothing of defined monetary value within the equation. To assign any sort of market value of savings means nothing to me, because if I didn’t find the items through the things I do anyway, I simply wouldn’t have the items.

Except you’re forgetting about the part where I bought all gifts when they were 1/10th of that price. And probably most people did.

Charming Rogue.8071:

Except you’re forgetting about the part where I bought all gifts when they were 1/10th of that price. And probably most people did.

Most, maybe. I actually did clovers → mastery → precursor → finish gift of incinerator→ fortune.

So, those prices for T6 mats were relevant to me, because I finished fortune the other day, and I did the moltens when they were slightly more expensive.

Charming Rogue.8071:

Except you’re forgetting about the part where I bought all gifts when they were 1/10th of that price. And probably most people did.

That may be true, but unless you are going to try and convince me that you made most of your money selling porus bonus then it doesn’t matter. The loot you bring in is also worth 10x more so you are making that much more money. It is offset a little bit since junk items and event rewards haven’t increased, but the majority of your income is from selling drops, not vendor trash.

Charming Rogue.8071:

Except you’re forgetting about the part where I bought all gifts when they were 1/10th of that price. And probably most people did.

So, I decided to do the actual math on this. If we ignore that Icy Runestones have been fixed in price the entire time and make up between 25% and 33% of the price of the gifts, then the price of all other mats need to experience about a ten-fold decrease in cost for the gifts to be 1/10 of the price they are now. If we don’t ignore the runestones, well, then your statement is just impossible. >_>

Anyway, assuming you bought all of your T6 mats at their absolute cheapest they ever were, the price for all the T6 mats comes out to 23.4g. Congrats, that’s actually about 1/10 the cost. Enjoy it, because it’s the outlier here (in that it actually supports your "bought at 1/10 the cost claim).

Moving on. . .

250 Ectos: 30G
250 Ectos and Coins (Clovers): 31.25g

Total for the Gift of Fortune: 84.65g, compared to at current costs 457g. So, about 1/5. .

Gift of Bolt: 182g
Icy Runestone: 100g
Gift of Lightning: 70g
-100 Charged Lodestone- 50g
-250 Orichalcum Ingot- 10g
-250 Bolt of Gossamer- 10g
Gift of Metal- 12.6g

Gift of Twilight: 198.6g
Icy Runestone: 100g
Gift of Darkness: 86g
-100 Onyx Lodestone: 75g
-250 Orichalcum Ingot: 10g
-250 Cured Hardened Leather Square: 1g
Gift of Metal- 12.6g

Gift of Incinerator: 158.8g
Icy Runestone: 100g
Vial of Liquid Flame: 46.225g
-100 Molten Lodestone: 10g
-100 Destroyer Lodestone: 36g
-250 Ghost Pepper: .225g
Gift of Metal: 12.6g

Again, this is if you bought everything at the cheapest it’s ever been according to gw2spidy’s histories. And literally nothing, barring the combined cost of Might and Magic, has ever been 1/10 of its current cost. For the Gift of Metal, I don’t even think it’s possible to get to 1/10 of the current cost, because you spend over 1g just in primordium from the vendor, and you can’t buy the ores and ingots for less than vendor cost. And suffice to say that I don’t see Charged Lodestones ever going for 33 silver a piece. . .

So, yeah, I’d be interested to learn how you bought all the mats for your gifts when they were 1/10 of the current cost. . .

It is true the gifts can be broken down into smaller parts and gotten gradually. There is some progress over time.

Precursors on the other as mentioned is a lump sum purchase (from TP). I don’t think its a problem that most ppl can’t save up the money for it. It is more towards most of the time when percursors jump in prices, they jump for a lot (maybe 50-ish). With the other parts, jump in prices is still within means of ingame gold earning (besides the TP ofc). And since there can be progress over time for the gifts, the jump in prices for gift parts for prgress already made is safe from price hikes.

I think the problem is the method of acquiring it that’s problematic, not the price. It isn’t very friendly to new players. Unless they have tremendous luck, they won’t be able to buy it if they’ve just started. Ever.

Tips:

-salvage wood and metal blues and whites sell cloth and leather items. Do not complain you get a blue or white drop… it can become ori or ancient wood. Many players do not realize this.
-Keep all greens and mystic forge them to try to get yellows to make free ecto (use masters/mystic/Black Lion kits).
-Sell t1-t6 materials and other stuff you don’t need for the gift you need to make. Keep t1 to t5 of that t6 mat your using that can be used to convert up to t 6 using appropriate dust.

If you’re going for a legendary, you have to readjust your expectations and learn that mastering the trading post is part of what is required. At the end of December I had 3 gold. I used one trading post scheme to turn that 3 gold into 50 gold, and then I found another scheme to turn that 50 gold into over 800 gold. Now I have Frostfang. I wish the legendaries weren’t so heavily skewed (~75%) toward gold making abilities. Hopefully they will add those mythical scavenger hunts, or people will be rewarded more for higher level fractals, dungeons, dragons, jumping puzzles, etc. As it stands now, however, if you want the pretty, shiny object, you need to be either really lucky, or learn to trade well.

Lolicia.6502:

As it stands now, however, if you want the pretty, shiny object, you need to be either really lucky, or learn to trade well.

I agree and the idea of it isn’t appealing to me personally. I do not want ingame market to be a determining factor for creating a legendary. Staying and monitoring the TP as opposed to immersing oneself into the game diminishes it. The way the precursors are currently achievable detracts from the concept and is perhaps the most frustrating aspect of it. Luck and trading (as it is now) shouldn’t play too grand of a part in achieving the symbol for mastering the game.

just reiterating here. Most people do not value money or monetization over joy, or experiences. IRL people work because they have to, and pick the least annoying thing over the highest paying thing many times. Many of the happiest people do not try to achieve large amounts of wealth.

point is, precursors suck for people because of their implementation and the fact it tends to require people to play a Gold Wars simulation versus other players rather than an rpg.

Sure one can alter their persepective and see everything as gold, and do the things that maximize profit. However that kills the game for many people.

Oddly, when I think of a precursor for a legendary, I feel like it should be the EASIEST to get among the requirements. It’s just an exotic item, something to be improved upon. Such as in tales where the weapon a hero has been wielding his entire quest ONLY becomes legendary due to the feats it has accomplished and how it served its master. The journey should be the priority imho; the Gifts makes me feel more like I deserve the title Legendary.

So I now have the precursor – it’s time to set into a big adventure to make it legendary or something to that effect. :/ As it is now, we are required to grind for gold or to hire an accountant, totally unrelated to being legendary.

Leo Paul.1659:

Oddly, when I think of a precursor for a legendary, I feel like it should be the EASIEST to get among the requirements. It’s just an exotic item, something to be improved upon. Such as in tales where the weapon a hero has been wielding his entire quest ONLY becomes legendary due to the feats it has accomplished and how it served its master.

This was actually how I thought legendary weapons was going to be in this game. Sort of like the legendary weapons from FFXI in which they start out as trash junk items and then you slowly buff them up.

Great post. Good data. The price of the precursor should be the most expensive part of the equation. Which is mostly supported here.

Its the means of obtaining said expensive precursor that I think most people dislike.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

People have this unhealthy fixation on precursors. They seem to think that they are horribly expensive and everyone seems to have all 3 legendary gifts ready but the evil precursors are holding them back. This thread is designed to put some actual numbers to those claims and see what the costs actually are and how they compare.

I will not talk about the Gift of Mastery because none of the parts can be bought, they are all earned through various play styles.

First lets look at the gift of Fortune:

T6 mats- 250 of each type. Given market buy prices this will cost 249g as of writing. Using market sell prices this will cost 264g
250 ectos= 94g
77mystic clovers- 94g for ectos and 20g for mystic coins

Total cost = 457g

Next the Gift of " ". This one is different for different weapons, but I will look at the cost of 3 of the more popular ones. Bolt, Twilight and Incinerator.

Gift of Bolt: 475g
Icy Runestone: 100g
Gift of lightning: 358g
-100 Charged lodestone- 330g
-250 Ori ingot- 16.5g
-250 bolt of gossomer- 12.4g
Gift of Metal: 19g

Gift of Twlight:312.5g
Icy Runestone: 100g
Gift of Darkness: 193.5g
-100 lodestones- 175g
– 250 Ori- 16.5g
-250 leather- 2g
Gift of Metal: 19g

Gift of Incinerator:309g
Icy Runestone: 100g
Vial of liquid flame:
-Molten lodestone- 65g
-Destroyer lodestone- 125g
Gift of Metal- 19g

Finally lets look at the prices of the precursors for these same 3:

Zap: 320-390g
Dusk: 620-700g
Spark: 570-620g

As we can see, if you are making Bolt, the precursor is actually the cheapest part of the legendary. If you are making Twlight or Incinerator then the cost of the precursor is still less then the cost of the other 2 gifts.

The problem is you can break apart the other gifts and slowly buy the parts you need. For the precursors people need to save up a lump sum, and most people don’t have the self control to do that. They spend spend spend, instead of saving. If you actually have the other 2 gifts then you are capable of getting your precursor, you just need to stop spending and start saving.

The precursor prices have risen at roughly the same rate as the cost of the other gifts. As mats get more expensive, so do the things those mats are used to make.

All of this get’s blown out the door, when people legitimately farm the mats to make the gifts.

The problem here is the WHY. Why should we prioritize and rush [important] earning the gold to buy off the TP? Because the price is bound to get higher the longer it takes you. It doesn’t matter if you farm your gifts now or months after, because the required effort to get them remains the same relatively. If one takes a break in trying to earn the gold for a precursor, the effort grows disproportionately because of how much the price rises. Which I find distasteful really.

Well, if you don’t want to buy it you can always gamble with MF. If you’re extremly lucky you can get one one day from drop.
There are three ways of getting one atm. Wait for the SH if dislike them or find them unfair.
As proven in the first post while trying to get gifts players are comming across the amount of money needed just to simply buy one of TP without even realising. You can collect stuff needed for your gifts, sell collected stuff, buy a precursor (or gamble with MF, your choise) and then work on your gifts again. The question is not that you can not colect this amount of gold in game, it is are you willing to do it?

Pustulio.8207:

All of this get’s blown out the door, when people legitimately farm the mats to make the gifts.

It doesn’t. The value of the mats is still the same. Whether you use them for your gifts or sell them on the market, the value is the same. It is only your decission what you do with that value (trade it in the tp for gold or use it yourself). The only difference is the tp fees. The worth of the gifts doesn’t change with how you aquire them.

I just see more justification of WHY Dusk is 600-670g (yes we get it it’s close to the average of making it in the forge, maybe, yes it’s 45% of the total legendary cost, yes there was inflation).

What I don’t see is proof that it should stay this way AND why some people can get it in a matter of minutes (and more importantly ALREADY GOT IT in ways other ppl can no longer get it at this point) while others have to grind CoF for 162h. And to make it worse, in some cases, we passed on those easy ways based on comments made by ANet.

You got SH coming that will change things (not sure if for good though) and they have said that they have something that will shake precursor market. Who knows maybe even February path?