Guild Wars 2

John Smith.4610:

People can put up sell orders for any value they want as long as they can afford the fee, that doesn’t mean the item is suddenly trading for that price.

edit: attempting to fix data image.

Any chance of giving us the sample timeframe?

My guess would be 60 hours again?

John Smith.4610:

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True.

John Smith.4610:

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He’s being more Kosh than usual.

John Smith.4610:

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OMG I never realized that.

John Smith.4610:

:)

Time frame is since 5/20/2014 00:00:00 UTC

The fact that this is not a rich people controlling the market doesn’t change the fact that something is wrong, it’s been over a year since we’ve been promise precursor crafting and right we need more than ever.

I know you guys monitor the market and can’t control how much people are selling/buying them for, but you have to admit something must be done.

Most people don’t want to gamble, they want a safe alternative. ( I am not one to complain I have gotten over 12 precursor in Mystic forge for an average of 200 gold )

John Smith destroys the naysayers once again.

Will John Smith ever be wrong?

This player concludes..no.

If there isn’t a Joan Smith I’d be willing to step up to that task.

Anyway dusk… yeah that’s an insane sell order. But ain’t nobody got gold fo that.

If we take a look at the charts, the prices of most precursors if not all have skyrocketed sinced March 15 when anet announced the wardrobe system. In a period of only two months these prices have increased even more than in the last 12 months combined.

So yeah, it’s either the Rothschild or the Illuminati that are messing up the economy. Well, perhaps the aliens too… I’ll keep investigating the issue.
Album with the price charts here

Trice.4598:

The fact that this is not a rich people controlling the market doesn’t change the fact that something is wrong, it’s been over a year since we’ve been promise precursor crafting and right we need more than ever.

I know you guys monitor the market and can’t control how much people are selling/buying them for, but you have to admit something must be done.

Most people don’t want to gamble, they want a safe alternative. ( I am not one to complain I have gotten over 12 precursor in Mystic forge for an average of 200 gold )

I fail to see how a rare luxury item being a rare luxury item is “something wrong”.

There are three ways to get a precursor:
1. Gamble on the Forge
2. Maximize your Kills Per Hour with buffed Magic Find to gamble on drops
3. Buy it on the Trading Post

We already have a “safe” non-gambling way to acquire a precursor. That safety comes with a high price tag though.

There is nothing legendary about buying it from the TP…I realize we are talking about precursors here but more or less the same thing. The goal of this game to get these rewards is to earn gold. Not kill a boss, not kill anything. If you have the stamina and mental fortitude to grind out the gold or have a big wallet you can own these “legendary” items. Seems wrong.

KOPPER.1458:

There is nothing legendary about buying it from the TP…I realize we are talking about precursors here but more or less the same thing. The goal of this game to get these rewards is to earn gold. Not kill a boss, not kill anything. If you have the stamina and mental fortitude to grind out the gold or have a big wallet you can own these “legendary” items. Seems wrong.

There is nothing exotic about orange name text either… what’s your point?

I made my point you did not read.

mtpelion.4562:

Trice.4598:

The fact that this is not a rich people controlling the market doesn’t change the fact that something is wrong, it’s been over a year since we’ve been promise precursor crafting and right we need more than ever.

I know you guys monitor the market and can’t control how much people are selling/buying them for, but you have to admit something must be done.

Most people don’t want to gamble, they want a safe alternative. ( I am not one to complain I have gotten over 12 precursor in Mystic forge for an average of 200 gold )

I fail to see how a rare luxury item being a rare luxury item is “something wrong”.

There are three ways to get a precursor:
1. Gamble on the Forge
2. Maximize your Kills Per Hour with buffed Magic Find to gamble on drops
3. Buy it on the Trading Post

We already have a “safe” non-gambling way to acquire a precursor. That safety comes with a high price tag though.

The precursor is not a luxury item, the Legendary is.

Also I don’t consider precursor from drop to be a way anymore. With the diminutive return, Anet nerfing every possible farmable spot you can’t go and tell yourself “I’m going to kill mobs until I get a precursor”. It happens to people sometime, but a lot less with all the nerfs. I know a lot of people with 3-4k+ hours of gameplay who never got one. And a lot of them are the kind of people who don’t waste a minute afk’ing in town.

Trice.4598:

I know you guys monitor the market and can’t control how much people are selling/buying them for, but you have to admit something must be done.

Correct, they can’t control what people are selling/buying for, but what they do is much worse. The gem to gold conversion causes inflation and what’s worse is they tamper with the supply, every time they nerf drops the supply goes down and the prices go up. This is among the worst forms of market tampering, causing the value of items to increase far beyond their worth and those with the money to panic with knee-jerk-reaction buys. The only way to fix the problems with precursors is to greatly increase the supply or supply an alternative means to get them. Of course, this will cause prices to rise for other items such as T6 mats. Level 80 rares would drop in price.

There are no easy way to fix a broken economy.

what’s worse is they tamper with the supply, every time they nerf drops the supply goes down and the prices go up.

This.

Why can’t we get a finisher of John Smith that has red big words saying:

“THOU SHALL NOT FLIP”

I got my kidney ready to sell if you do it Anet.

Now to try to stay on-topic, I’ve always wanted to save up gold to buy Dusk but the price went up everytime I was getting closer. When it was at 800g I didn’t even cared anymore, it seems ridiculous to pay that much only for an item and now 2000g is nuts lol

But well, hopefully someone else places some orders that are cheaper, meanwhile I’ll wait for the option to craft them :’(

Just out of curiosity: Are you saying that you think a median transaction price of 1157g for dusk is acceptable?

Just out of curiosity: Are you saying that you think a median transaction price of 1157g for dusk is acceptable?

Yes. That is the short answer. It isn’t about being acceptable or not sadly. It’s about what players will pay. According to his charts shown here players are buying them just fine. While I don’t agree with it many apparently think it’s acceptable.

eleshazar.6902:

Just out of curiosity: Are you saying that you think a median transaction price of 1157g for dusk is acceptable?

Why isn’kitten If you are a seller of Dusk, and you have two buyers, who would you sell it? The one with the lowest offer? If someone is willing to pay 1157g for a Dusk, then that’s what the market price is at that moment.

KOPPER.1458:

Just out of curiosity: Are you saying that you think a median transaction price of 1157g for dusk is acceptable?

Yes. That is the short answer. It isn’t about being acceptable or not sadly. It’s about what players will pay. According to his charts shown here players are buying them just fine. While I don’t agree with it many apparently think it’s acceptable.

A better question is do they think it’s acceptable or are they buying out of fear (Or banking on the fact) that it will keep rising out of control? These are entirely different things. If they think it’s acceptable then the market is working, if they’re buying out of fear, or more likely, looking to flip for profit, then the market is broken. My personally opinion is that a majority of these are slatted for flipping. Of those 58 dusks that sold, how many of them were the same item? How many distinct items? Makes a huge difference if there were 58 distinct items or if there were 8 that moved hands multiple times.

Just because people are buying, doesn’t mean the market is working properly.

Vol.7601:

John Smith destroys the naysayers once again.

Will John Smith ever be wrong?

This player concludes..no.

Information always conquers ignorance.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

If there isn’t a Joan Smith I’d be willing to step up to that task.

Anyway dusk… yeah that’s an insane sell order. But ain’t nobody got gold fo that.

There are quite a few players who can afford 2k for a precursor. But why would they when they can place a buy order for 800g less and still get the item within a few hours?

ghost.3208:

Why can’t we get a finisher of John Smith that has red big words saying:

“THOU SHALL NOT FLIP”

I got my kidney ready to sell if you do it Anet.

They haven’t figured out how to code the gem store so that the price doubles every 12 hours.

Leamas.5803:

KOPPER.1458:

Just out of curiosity: Are you saying that you think a median transaction price of 1157g for dusk is acceptable?

Yes. That is the short answer. It isn’t about being acceptable or not sadly. It’s about what players will pay. According to his charts shown here players are buying them just fine. While I don’t agree with it many apparently think it’s acceptable.

A better question is do they think it’s acceptable or are they buying out of fear (Or banking on the fact) that it will keep rising out of control? These are entirely different things. If they think it’s acceptable then the market is working, if they’re buying out of fear, or more likely, looking to flip for profit, then the market is broken. My personally opinion is that a majority of these are slatted for flipping. Of those 58 dusks that sold, how many of them were the same item? How many distinct items? Makes a huge difference if there were 58 distinct items or if there were 8 that moved hands multiple times.

Just because people are buying, doesn’t mean the market is working properly.

Even if it was the same item being flipped multiple times, that’s good for the economy, especially for an item that expensive.

tolunart.2095:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

If there isn’t a Joan Smith I’d be willing to step up to that task.

Anyway dusk… yeah that’s an insane sell order. But ain’t nobody got gold fo that.

There are quite a few players who can afford 2k for a precursor. But why would they when they can place a buy order for 800g less and still get the item within a few hours?

My Joke was lost on you. How sad.

Vol.7601:

Leamas.5803:

KOPPER.1458:

Just out of curiosity: Are you saying that you think a median transaction price of 1157g for dusk is acceptable?

Yes. That is the short answer. It isn’t about being acceptable or not sadly. It’s about what players will pay. According to his charts shown here players are buying them just fine. While I don’t agree with it many apparently think it’s acceptable.

A better question is do they think it’s acceptable or are they buying out of fear (Or banking on the fact) that it will keep rising out of control? These are entirely different things. If they think it’s acceptable then the market is working, if they’re buying out of fear, or more likely, looking to flip for profit, then the market is broken. My personally opinion is that a majority of these are slatted for flipping. Of those 58 dusks that sold, how many of them were the same item? How many distinct items? Makes a huge difference if there were 58 distinct items or if there were 8 that moved hands multiple times.

Just because people are buying, doesn’t mean the market is working properly.

Even if it was the same item being flipped multiple times, that’s good for the economy, especially for an item that expensive.

Not if the sole purpose is to artificially inflate the price.

eleshazar.6902:

Just out of curiosity: Are you saying that you think a median transaction price of 1157g for dusk is acceptable?

There’s 58 new Dusk owners who don’t have a problem with it.

There is no real “cost of living” expenses in the game. Waypoints and repair fees (I think they were removed though…) are not game breaking. Your character doesn’t need to eat, or pay rent, or get hit with income taxes… you just run around killing stuff and money and goods fall into your pockets from thin air.

Over time, the average player is going to be carrying around more and more money. The dedicated players are going to be carrying around several times this amount. Thus, when there is something in short supply and high demand, the piles of money players throw at it will grow larger over time.

Short of emptying every account’s bags and wallet and starting over with 0 gold and characters in their underwear holding a pointy stick, there is nothing that can be done. Players who want Dusk more than you do will throw more money at it than you do until they get it.

The only solution is to keep getting more money until you’re the one throwing the biggest pile of money at it.

Leamas.5803:

Vol.7601:

Leamas.5803:

KOPPER.1458:

Just out of curiosity: Are you saying that you think a median transaction price of 1157g for dusk is acceptable?

Yes. That is the short answer. It isn’t about being acceptable or not sadly. It’s about what players will pay. According to his charts shown here players are buying them just fine. While I don’t agree with it many apparently think it’s acceptable.

A better question is do they think it’s acceptable or are they buying out of fear (Or banking on the fact) that it will keep rising out of control? These are entirely different things. If they think it’s acceptable then the market is working, if they’re buying out of fear, or more likely, looking to flip for profit, then the market is broken. My personally opinion is that a majority of these are slatted for flipping. Of those 58 dusks that sold, how many of them were the same item? How many distinct items? Makes a huge difference if there were 58 distinct items or if there were 8 that moved hands multiple times.

Just because people are buying, doesn’t mean the market is working properly.

Even if it was the same item being flipped multiple times, that’s good for the economy, especially for an item that expensive.

Not if the sole purpose is to artificially inflate the price.

Demand is demand. Whether you buy something because you
1.) want to use it immediately
2.) want to use it eventually and hedge against an increase in price
3.) see it as a good investment

does not matter. If you artificially attempt to raise a price at x time, then at x+1 time another person is willing to pay 5% more (and gets sold), then that new price is the equilibrium and shows that the price was undervalued.

On the opposite spectrum, if at x+1 time you were only willing to pay 10% less (and gets sold), then that’s the new price and the price was actually overvalued.

KOPPER.1458:

Just out of curiosity: Are you saying that you think a median transaction price of 1157g for dusk is acceptable?

Yes. That is the short answer. It isn’t about being acceptable or not sadly. It’s about what players will pay. According to his charts shown here players are buying them just fine. While I don’t agree with it many apparently think it’s acceptable.

The purpose of the TP is to allow players to trade items and gold with each other in a safe and efficient fashion. Would you rather that new players who don’t understand how valuable this “Dusk” that dropped from a random mob is get conned by players who trade them a crafted rare greatsword for it?

The other side of the coin, there were 54 unique sellers, some of them are surely “flipping” but the majority are just your average player who got a lucky drop and suddenly is over a thousand gold richer. It’s not one or two or even ten TP Barons sitting on thrones made of gold laughing as they manipulate the price for their own benefit.

tolunart.2095:

The only solution is to keep getting more money until you’re the one throwing the biggest pile of money at it.

The problem is that prices are rising faster than most people can make money. Unless you buy gems (ANet’s preferred method, of course), which is bad for the economy, grind your life away, which ANet says they don’t want you to do, or play the TP, which is also bad for the economy and just another form of grind…just more boring.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

tolunart.2095:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

If there isn’t a Joan Smith I’d be willing to step up to that task.

Anyway dusk… yeah that’s an insane sell order. But ain’t nobody got gold fo that.

There are quite a few players who can afford 2k for a precursor. But why would they when they can place a buy order for 800g less and still get the item within a few hours?

My Joke was lost on you. How sad.

Then you need to work on your delivery.

tolunart.2095:

KOPPER.1458:

Just out of curiosity: Are you saying that you think a median transaction price of 1157g for dusk is acceptable?

Yes. That is the short answer. It isn’t about being acceptable or not sadly. It’s about what players will pay. According to his charts shown here players are buying them just fine. While I don’t agree with it many apparently think it’s acceptable.

The purpose of the TP is to allow players to trade items and gold with each other in a safe and efficient fashion. Would you rather that new players who don’t understand how valuable this “Dusk” that dropped from a random mob is get conned by players who trade them a crafted rare greatsword for it?

The other side of the coin, there were 54 unique sellers, some of them are surely “flipping” but the majority are just your average player who got a lucky drop and suddenly is over a thousand gold richer. It’s not one or two or even ten TP Barons sitting on thrones made of gold laughing as they manipulate the price for their own benefit.

Bolded is so true. When I was new to gw1 I did pretty searing a bunch and got a perfect salvage kit. The player I was with told me it was worth x and that they’d buy it from me, when it was actually worth like 10 times x.

It’s a very great thing, the TP. flipping isn’t even the problem here. It’s the nerfs to overall loot, in my humble uneducated opinion.

Leamas.5803:

tolunart.2095:

The only solution is to keep getting more money until you’re the one throwing the biggest pile of money at it.

The problem is that prices are rising faster than most people can make money. Unless you buy gems (ANet’s preferred method, of course), which is bad for the economy, grind your life away, which ANet says they don’t want you to do, or play the TP, which is also bad for the economy and just another form of grind…just more boring.

Where do you get that idea?

An item won’t sell if no one has the gold to buy it. I can list a white level 0 dagger for 2 million gold if I can afford the listing fee. But who’s going to buy it?

58 Dusk sold recently to 58 different people. If no one can afford to buy them, they wouldn’t have been sold.

What you’re saying is that prices are rising faster than you can make money. If so, you have two choices: either reevaluate your goals in the game to match the effort you can give it, or learn how to make more money. The game isn’t going to bend itself to your will.

Leamas.5803:

tolunart.2095:

The only solution is to keep getting more money until you’re the one throwing the biggest pile of money at it.

The problem is that prices are rising faster than most people can make money. Unless you buy gems (ANet’s preferred method, of course), which is bad for the economy, grind your life away, which ANet says they don’t want you to do, or play the TP, which is also bad for the economy and just another form of grind…just more boring.

But “most people” aren’t interested in Dusk and they are not part of the demand equation. The fact that the Dusk is rising in price both through buy/sell listings shows that the demand market for Dusk is willing to pay that amount.

For example, I strive to one day be able to drive a Bentley Continental, but I’m only willing to pay $2000 for it. Should I be involved in the demand equation for this item? Absolutely not, as I’m no where close to the MRSP tag.

tolunart.2095:

Leamas.5803:

tolunart.2095:

The only solution is to keep getting more money until you’re the one throwing the biggest pile of money at it.

The problem is that prices are rising faster than most people can make money. Unless you buy gems (ANet’s preferred method, of course), which is bad for the economy, grind your life away, which ANet says they don’t want you to do, or play the TP, which is also bad for the economy and just another form of grind…just more boring.

Where do you get that idea?

An item won’t sell if no one has the gold to buy it. I can list a white level 0 dagger for 2 million gold if I can afford the listing fee. But who’s going to buy it?

58 Dusk sold recently to 58 different people. If no one can afford to buy them, they wouldn’t have been sold.

I said most…unless you employ unsavory methods of attaining gold…gem store, grinding, or flipping. Very few people, unless they’re lucky (Not me for sure), can make enough with just straight gameplay to keep up with these prices. When I started getting close (Being withing a couple hundred gold) to The Legend, this was when it was at 500g, it jumped to 700g, when I started getting close, it jumped to 800-900, then I abandoned it and now it’s well over 1200.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

It’s a very great thing, the TP. flipping isn’t even the problem here. It’s the nerfs to overall loot, in my humble uneducated opinion.

The market is player driven and the value of an item is set by the players, not Anet. They set a minimum value (vendor price) to most items, but the maximum value is whatever any player is willing to pay.

Say Anet created a minipet: a penguin that would follow you around bearing a flag that says [charname] IS AWESOME. They only spawned 10 of these minis and put them on the TP for 1g each. Within minutes all 10 would be bought and relisted for hundreds of gold each, only to bought again and relisted for thousands, until the price grew beyond the capacity for anyone to pay for them.

What are these items really worth?

Leamas.5803:

I said most…unless you employ unsavory methods of attaining gold…gem store, grinding, or flipping. Very few people, unless they’re lucky (Not me for sure), can make enough with just straight gameplay to keep up with these prices. When I started getting close (Being withing a couple hundred gold) to The Legend, this was when it was at 500g, it jumped to 700g, when I started getting close, it jumped to 800-900, then I abandoned it and now it’s well over 1200.

And I said:

What you’re saying is that prices are rising faster than you can make money.

That’s how the game is played.

demand > supply. JS just showed us that the demand is genuine. Start forging dungeon exos?

Mckeone.9804:

demand > supply. JS just showed us that the demand is genuine. Start forging dungeon exos?

Yep, Eternity is hot. Start MF’ing greatswords, get rich.

tolunart.2095:

The market is player driven and the value of an item is set by the players, not Anet. They set a minimum value (vendor price) to most items, but the maximum value is whatever any player is willing to pay.

Yes, the market is player driven, but the supply is manipulated by ANet through various means. Saying a 10g item is worth 1000g because people will pay that for doesn’t make it worth 1000g. It points to a supply problem and this IS controlled by ANet.

Leamas.5803:

tolunart.2095:

The market is player driven and the value of an item is set by the players, not Anet. They set a minimum value (vendor price) to most items, but the maximum value is whatever any player is willing to pay.

Yes, the market is player driven, but the supply is manipulated by ANet through various means. Saying a 10g item is worth 1000g because people will pay that for doesn’t make it worth 1000g. It points to a supply problem and this IS controlled by ANet.

Players want them because they are rare. They are rare because they rarely drop. If they commonly drop they are not rare. Because they are not rare people don’t want them.

There are dozens of greatsword models, pick another one if you can’t afford Dusk.

tolunart.2095:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

It’s a very great thing, the TP. flipping isn’t even the problem here. It’s the nerfs to overall loot, in my humble uneducated opinion.

The market is player driven and the value of an item is set by the players, not Anet. They set a minimum value (vendor price) to most items, but the maximum value is whatever any player is willing to pay.

Say Anet created a minipet: a penguin that would follow you around bearing a flag that says [charname] IS AWESOME. They only spawned 10 of these minis and put them on the TP for 1g each. Within minutes all 10 would be bought and relisted for hundreds of gold each, only to bought again and relisted for thousands, until the price grew beyond the capacity for anyone to pay for them.

What are these items really worth?

I’m not entirely sure how this is a reply to me.

But… items are obviously worth what others are willing to pay for them. Is a dusk worth 2k gold? Maybe. Depending on rares and exotic prices it’s entirely possible. But if no one buys it… well it isn’t.

It’s like… you can get black lion chest tickets. It costs a lot of gold to do this, but I’m willing to bet most people (like me) use real money on keys. The equilibrium initial price of a black lion weapon is what 60g? It probably costs more gold to get the ticket but people are not willing to buy a weapon for 100g (as a whole even if this is the average gold price it takes to get one) until the ticket number goes up.

Leamas.5803:

tolunart.2095:

The market is player driven and the value of an item is set by the players, not Anet. They set a minimum value (vendor price) to most items, but the maximum value is whatever any player is willing to pay.

Yes, the market is player driven, but the supply is manipulated by ANet through various means. Saying a 10g item is worth 1000g because people will pay that for doesn’t make it worth 1000g. It points to a supply problem and this IS controlled by ANet.

Manipulated by what? Going into their database and saying that it should have a drop rate of 0.025%?

What if they suddenly increased it to 20%? Would you start to say that Anet is ‘manipulating’ the price, considering that is now conveniently cheap for you to buy?

From one perspective, Dusk sounds cheap. At 1150 gold, it would cost you over $200 to buy it outright via gems. But how many hours of your life would you be saving? Even if you value an hour of your time at only minimum wage, it is probably better to buy it.

On the other hand…it’s just pixels.

tolunart.2095:

Leamas.5803:

tolunart.2095:

The market is player driven and the value of an item is set by the players, not Anet. They set a minimum value (vendor price) to most items, but the maximum value is whatever any player is willing to pay.

Yes, the market is player driven, but the supply is manipulated by ANet through various means. Saying a 10g item is worth 1000g because people will pay that for doesn’t make it worth 1000g. It points to a supply problem and this IS controlled by ANet.

Players want them because they are rare. They are rare because they rarely drop. If they commonly drop they are not rare. Because they are not rare people don’t want them.

There are dozens of greatsword models, pick another one if you can’t afford Dusk.

I did, the Sclerite GS, which is a great GS and far more rare in game than any legendary, GS or otherwise, but I don’t have to like how ANet is manipulating the market or making market changing game design decisions without fully thinking out how things will be affected.

Vol.7601:

Leamas.5803:

tolunart.2095:

The market is player driven and the value of an item is set by the players, not Anet. They set a minimum value (vendor price) to most items, but the maximum value is whatever any player is willing to pay.

Yes, the market is player driven, but the supply is manipulated by ANet through various means. Saying a 10g item is worth 1000g because people will pay that for doesn’t make it worth 1000g. It points to a supply problem and this IS controlled by ANet.

Manipulated by what? Going into their database and saying that it should have a drop rate of 0.025%?

What if they suddenly increased it to 20%? Would you start to say that Anet is ‘manipulating’ the price, considering that is now conveniently cheap for you to buy?

They do manipulate the supply, they keep nerfing every possible farm, remove drops from monster, bring champion down to veteran status so they won’t drop champion bag anymore. They keep bringing the supply of everything down. They also played with the mystic forge recently, and even though they said they didn’t change the chance to get a precursor, there is a 50/50 % chance they messed it up.

I’m not a gambler so I’m not sure if what I said is correct.

I think precursor price went up or down base on the difficulty to acquire it. I think price of mithril or edler wood also went up? So now is probably not the best time to get a precursor.

The change to mystic forge might also contribute some to the precursor price. Since I think people get named weapon less often. That being said I think named weapon price went up??(Because of the wardrobe?)

John Smith.4610:

People can put up sell orders for any value they want as long as they can afford the fee, that doesn’t mean the item is suddenly trading for that price.

edit: attempting to fix data image.

which essentially means dusks are going for more than they were before by a decent margin.
because last week the sell price was like 1160 and the buy price was like 1040, right now, over an average of the last 60 hours, which includes before the gangsta dusk move was made, the average price has surpassed the maximum price for last week. Not to mention that price was already on an upward swing since the last gangsta move.

what you have shown is that overall, someone has successfully pushed the price of dusk up, which continues to be at that trend right now the highest buy order is 1200. So for a dusk supplier, or seller/syndicate overall, the push has successfully increased the value of dusk, and we currently havent seen how high it will continue to push it.