Guild Wars 2

I am interested in started a trading organization. As most of the traders and wealthy players know a lot of information is not made public until the group of players who found out about it have already taken full advantage of it. I am suggesting a guild of traders who share exclusive information only within the group, and work together to achieve collective goals.

I would ask that you already have the funds to at least make an impact on the market in a meaningful way when combined with the power of the other traders.

If you have at least 250 gold that can be used towards trading investments, and are interested in this idea, contact me in game.

Hmm…

I think we will want the guild name…

I would ask that you already have the funds to at least make an impact on the market in a meaningful way when combined with the power of the other traders.

Maybe ANet will ban all members of said guild for mass market manipulation.

Or zap all members of said guild’s gold while they try and fix the market that you are trying to impact.

If Anet just came along and deleted some items out of your inventory, would you enjoy that as much as the same happening to people with more gold ingame?

They are playing the game, not breaking any rules, just like you (?).
The TP is a part of the game, just as killing risen in Orr.

An in-game hedge fund?

No I wouldn’t be investing other players gold. I am looking into establishing a kind of Guild Wars 2 market brain trust.

I have a few markets that can yield really high returns that are not that well known, I am sure there are other traders out there with similar information. If like-minded players got together and shared this information within a small group they could all benefit.

If the size of the group gets to large then the value in information is lost.

If you’re trying to make me feel guilty for my comment and dislike of market manipulators, it isn’t working.

I’m a working man pulling 50+ hours a week as an armed guard. I hate market manipulators in real life and I hate them in games I paid for to enjoy.

ANet has the ability to hamstring the market manipulators and fix the in game economy so those of us with real lives can enjoy the game as casual players. It is time ANet showed their ability to fix the market and deal with the power traders.

This is “Guild Wars 2,” not “Wall Street Market Simulator 2012.”

As to my inventory, there is a Karka item they can take since it is useless and the PvP finishers that I probably won’t use. Might even be a blueprint or two in there they can have.

@ Ravion Hawk

I understand your frustration with some of the behaviors that go on, precursors is a perfect example of using trading power to only help yourself and destroy other players experiences. (I won’t play in such a dangerous market, since soon all the people holding precursors are going to get smoked when Anet makes them easier to get)

Just be aware that some trading practices even ones that involve market control are not always bad. A lot of the things I do have a positive impact on the market as a whole, and benefit the casual player, while taxing the player who wants exclusive goods.

Also to be clear I don’t partake in any cheats or exploits.

Nearly all of the gold I have made has been a result of trading. Most of it involved a lot of independent research and experimentation. A lot of people will be shocked at how much money can still be made off the two week old Wintersday markets. The information will probably only be made widely public after the event is over, and people have made their respective fortunes. It’s funny seeing posts on sub-reddit that are voted to 1-2 and seem to be so informative and helpful about markets, but in reality they are just way for players to control the markets even more, while also providing disinformation.

I just spent all my gold on dawn hoping it’ll pop up soon. I play the TP too but it seems that there are fewer items that are open to being profitable.

Ravion Hawk.4736:

Hmm…

I think we will want the guild name…

I would ask that you already have the funds to at least make an impact on the market in a meaningful way when combined with the power of the other traders.

Maybe ANet will ban all members of said guild for mass market manipulation.

Or zap all members of said guild’s gold while they try and fix the market that you are trying to impact.

LAWL Funniest Comment all day cant ban people for controlling the market that they created someone is just a little red behind the ears

Izuna.5307:

Ravion Hawk.4736:

Hmm…

I think we will want the guild name…

I would ask that you already have the funds to at least make an impact on the market in a meaningful way when combined with the power of the other traders.

Maybe ANet will ban all members of said guild for mass market manipulation.

Or zap all members of said guild’s gold while they try and fix the market that you are trying to impact.

LAWL Funniest Comment all day cant ban people for controlling the market that they created someone is just a little red behind the ears

Some people are just jealous. They want everything in this game and all the gold from zero effort.

Vol.5241:

Izuna.5307:

Ravion Hawk.4736:

Hmm…

I think we will want the guild name…

I would ask that you already have the funds to at least make an impact on the market in a meaningful way when combined with the power of the other traders.

Maybe ANet will ban all members of said guild for mass market manipulation.

Or zap all members of said guild’s gold while they try and fix the market that you are trying to impact.

LAWL Funniest Comment all day cant ban people for controlling the market that they created someone is just a little red behind the ears

Some people are just jealous. They want everything in this game and all the gold from zero effort.

Speaking the truth my brother Testify!!

So many players hate free trade…a sad reflection of society today.

I am the 99%

I run around, farm stuff, make some gold to buy something for my toon, enjoy playing with friends, and work on my Legendary slowly.

I think like most people we don’t like our enjoyment of the game to be negatively effected by other peoples enjoyment of the game. Gw2 has done alot to prevent players from stepping on each others toes and prevent griefing. Included in that is that they listen to their player base when it complains about inflation in the market that is purely speculative and/or manipulative. This isn’t a free market.

Did you know that in the real world there are government agencies that look to protect consumers against monopolies, insider trading, and Index manipulation? It’s not a free market.

If you understood more economic theory you would probably understand why a small portion of the player base artificially driving up the prices of specific items for personal profit is actually a bad thing. It actually has nothing to do with the market being harmed. A population can have excessive income inequality and still maintain a healthy market, but When the income gap becomes larger the society suffers.* What does that mean for us? Less people enjoy the game, less people play. Less people play, less likely that Anet can provide further content. Which can then have a snow ballign effect.

FYI asking for Anet to intervene isn’t Anti-Capitalist its State-Capitalism since Anet actually controls everything in the game.

The isn’t anything broken in the market. That doesn’t mean the bulk of people are happy with it. Isn’t that why we are all here? to have fun?

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_gap

Grazingcattle.1627:

I think like most people we don’t like our enjoyment of the game to be negatively effected by other peoples enjoyment of the game.

I guess you’re referring to those who buy and sell items for profit. When you farm items, do you give them away? It seems by your logic not giving them away will negatively effect other people’s enjoyment of the game. If you sell the items, they lose gold, but if you give them away, they save gold, which according to you improves their enjoyment of the game.

Grazingcattle.1627:

…inflation in the market that is purely speculative and/or manipulative.

Citation needed. There is speculation, and people do buy out items to sell later, but inflation is mostly caused by an increased gold supply that allows people to spend more on items. As I have said in other threads, the people with precursors can’t simply list them at thousands of gold. To make money requires a buyer.

Grazingcattle.1627:

This isn’t a free market.

Correct, but it is apparently still too free for some players including yourself.

Grazingcattle.1627:

Did you know that in the real world there are government agencies that look to protect consumers against monopolies, insider trading, and Index manipulation? It’s not a free market.

No I didn’t know that since the government actually does the opposite. A free market would be a significant improvement.

Kanthor.2094:

Grazingcattle.1627:

I think like most people we don’t like our enjoyment of the game to be negatively effected by other peoples enjoyment of the game.

I guess you’re referring to those who buy and sell items for profit. When you farm items, do you give them away? It seems by your logic not giving them away will negatively effect other people’s enjoyment of the game. If you sell the items, they lose gold, but if you give them away, they save gold, which according to you improves their enjoyment of the game.

Grazingcattle.1627:

…inflation in the market that is purely speculative and/or manipulative.

As I have said in other threads, the people with precursors can’t simply list them at thousands of gold. To make money requires a buyer.

Correct, but it is apparently still too free for some players including yourself.

Grazingcattle.1627:

Did you know that in the real world there are government agencies that look to protect consumers against monopolies, insider trading, and Index manipulation? It’s not a free market.

No I didn’t know that since the government actually does the opposite. A free market would be a significant improvement.

Selling goods actually is a net increase of enjoyment to the game for both players. Imagine if the game had no way to trade items between players. People would complain about having too much of X and Not Y ect. The ability to trade goods directly is notably absent from the current way the game is set up. (Mail trading is an option but clearly is not optimal for a mass market due to lack of trust) When people can’t exchange goods directly they will develop a form of currency, in this case Gold.
By saying that market manipulators is even close to a person farming not giving away their farmed goods it just makes you seem foolish and clearly doesn’t need to be rebutted. BUT i will humor you…

In each transaction their is two parties. A transaction between players where both parties receive what they believe to be a fair deal leads to a dual positivity. (Both players are happy with the deal leading to no resentment)

In a transaction between two people where one has a advantage by controlling a resource with out reasonable competition, the person who is forced to make an uneven trade comes away feeling negatively while the person who Controlled the resource gets additional income giving them a positive feeling about the trade. At best this comes out as Neutral but usually this actually breeds more resentment then positivity. If this is repeated over and over an entire population can become resentful and the social structure of the society will be affected. (Maybe more people quit the game, or more people try to scam people out of gold, or people buy from gold sellers)

In your scenario one party is giving their goods with no financial return to another party. This can take place for dual positivity in the case of a guild mate or friend who is farming to help another person reach some higher goal. The only way that your scenario can occur is with the express permission of the individual farming the goods. With out knowing the reason why the person is giving away his goods (Charity, Black mail, not in control of his account) it is impossible to say for certain if this leads to a net positive result.

Mind you all of this has NOTHING to do with the market. Its purely the social aspects that are effected. The market can continue to maintain itself even when the income gap is massive.

On to point 2. The items are not increasing in price with the average rate of inflation so it would be difficult to say that they aren’t being purchased for either speculative or manipulative reasons. I never said there is no inflation. If you increase the amount of currency and don’t remove a corresponding amount of currency you get inflation. Not really sure what your counter point is here? Are you saying there is not market manipulation occuring?

As far as your “to make money requires a buyer” theory, as I have often mentioned, Market manipulation doesn’t damage the market. It increases the income gap. Increasing the income gap doesn’t damage the market. Increasing the income gap leads to more people feeling negatively in society. (Maybe more people quit the game, or more people try to scam people out of gold, or people buy from gold sellers)

This isn’t a free market thanks for understanding. Peoples opinions are rarely swayed by facts, but more often emotions, yet I have provided facts where as I have yet to see any from you.

As far as how much government involvement should be in our economy? That’s a heated debate that people have been working on for hundreds of years. I can’t begin to claim that I know the right answer, all I can do is look at the facts.

Some people who profit from the TP are actually a positive impact on the community. Spread traders come to mind in that they help keep markets relatively stable by purchasing items in bulk and then making a profit by waiting on the items to sell.

Speculation isn’t bad in and of itself. Speculating that on high volume low demand items can net you a large gain if Anet makes a small change in loot or item recipe. Think Chocolate, they lowered the drop rate and people kept selling it at low prices, speculation took hold and the price soared. But why didn’t we hear an uproar over the profits that those individuals made?* Mostly due to the fact that chocolate can be replaced if you are leveling cooking and few goods with chocolate are in high demand. The bubble was mostly speculators with a hint of the price history ignorant.

Chocolate speculation is good. It allows people to earn large sums of gold with out leading to a lasting negative effect on the players.

• I do recall that there were a few posts about market manipulation at that time, but it wasn’t really about the chocolate. It was the feeling that there are people who have such a large amount of control over the price of goods that have high demand and few or no alternatives.

this is exactly what this game needs right now. forget about changes to pvp/wvw or fixing fractals and/or dungeons. what we need to do is form guilds that get together making money together and gettin incredibly rich and controlling all the cool and rare items on the BLTP so all the poor/casual/new players can never have cool stuff cos they will never afford it!

/raises his glass “gentlemen, to evil!”

In a transaction between two people where one has a advantage by controlling a resource with out reasonable competition, the person who is forced to make an uneven trade comes away feeling negatively while the person who Controlled the resource gets additional income giving them a positive feeling about the trade.

That must explain all those threads titled “I just bought my precursor and it kittened me off”. No, if the buyer would end up unsatisfied, then he woudn’t make the purchase in the first place. Duh?

lDeadeyesl.9156:

I would ask that you already have the funds to at least make an impact on the market in a meaningful way when combined with the power of the other traders.

If you have at least 250 gold that can be used towards trading investments, and are interested in this idea, contact me in game.

It interesting you set the floor at 250g. A bit over a week ago I identified a… vulnerability… in the market that I thought would yeild at least a 400% RoI. At first I thought it would only take about 200g to implement it. I’d already been considering about a 200$ real cash buy-in to toy with the market after the holidays. As the discussion went with my roommate, “Would you pay 20 cents to annoy someone? Yes? Ok, How about 200$ to annoy at least a thousand people…?” It would after all be an exercise in pure marketeering malice. That a successful manuever would give me almost exactly enough cash to instantly construct Infinite Light is really just a by-product. Evil is typically its own reward .

After sitting down and really crunching the numbers, I determined it would actually take about 500g. I’d need an equal partner at the level I was willing to buy-in to this scheme. Then along comes this thread…

…Funny thing – I think someone else has seen it too. As of a few days ago the 4-digit stock barrier (supply that would need to be bought up in anticipation of later resale at the new forced arbitrage) is GONE, and I think roughly half of it has already been relisted at a 50% increase in anticipation of the remaining stock being eliminated and that becoming the new trading price. Not nearly as aggressive as my own forecast, but somebody has the liquidity to make it work now. I think theres’s still close ot 300% RoI waiting to happen, and whoever this buyer is, they’re not going to exactly oppose their stock skyrocketing.

A little collusion goes a long way. Just ask the oil companies.

God kitten I just spend all my money on T3 sylvari armor, and could’ve joined this guild instead =_=
Funny thing is I did search for a market guild just a few days before but couldn’t find any active one

Count me in, I have money to spend and recently started in TP Trading so I’m no pro, BUT I can help you control the market, eh i mean help you on your trades ofc.

lDeadeyesl.9156:

As most of the traders and wealthy players know a lot of information is not made public until the group of players who found out about it have already taken full advantage of it.

All market information is available to all players at the same time. There is a big difference between insider trading and agile trading. Even when allowing for economics of scale. The economy is still relatively new, and each event brings massive shocks to the market.

lDeadeyesl.9156:

I am suggesting a guild of traders who share exclusive information only within the group, and work together to achieve collective goals.

The above point aside, this is a very interesting goal. I would actually suggest something slightly different. As someone indicated above if you have the chops why not create a mutual fund of sorts ( I believe Hedge fund was used)?
A select group of people managing funds from the community to create income via economics of scale?

I’m almost tempted to fire up excel to figure out margins on how to make this work…

Market manipulators should be permanently banned, no excuses.

The trading post in Guild Wars 2 is a prime example, why a free market wont work out well in the long run. Rich get richer and the people who actually play the game get poorer.

Well, if you just play the game, you should not care about wealth.

Direct your complains at Anet, for not having drop rates high enough to support your own playstyle.

Sadly all the “end game” goals are tied to wealth. T3 cultural armors, legendary weapons, a lot of mystic forge recipe exotics (Mjolnir, Infinite Light and many others), collecting miniatures and more.

The T3 armors are completely independent of the TP. You make GOLD running dungeons, not items you sell. If you really farm/grind dungeons, you can have your T3 after 30ish hours of doing so.

Most of the items, except precursors are driven by supply/demand. The reason you see them tied to wealth more than playing the game, is because they are RARE, therefore expensive.
If Arenanet increased the droprates, and farming the item itself was as lucrative as farming the gold and buy it, everyone would benefit.

Malediktus.9250:

Market manipulators should be permanently banned, no excuses.

The trading post in Guild Wars 2 is a prime example, why a free market wont work out well in the long run. Rich get richer and the people who actually play the game get poorer.

Actually, the smart people who know how the market works get richer, while the whiny casuals who are too lazy or too dumb to handle the market remain poor.

Vol.5241:

Malediktus.9250:

Market manipulators should be permanently banned, no excuses.

The trading post in Guild Wars 2 is a prime example, why a free market wont work out well in the long run. Rich get richer and the people who actually play the game get poorer.

Actually, the smart people who know how the market works get richer, while the whiny casuals who are too lazy or too dumb to handle the market remain poor.

There is no reason a casual could not make money on the TP. If you invested your playtime, even if it was 1 hour, into doing stuff with the TP instead of playing the other content, you would make decent coin.

Kanthor.2094:

In a transaction between two people where one has a advantage by controlling a resource with out reasonable competition, the person who is forced to make an uneven trade comes away feeling negatively while the person who Controlled the resource gets additional income giving them a positive feeling about the trade.

That must explain all those threads titled “I just bought my precursor and it kittened me off”. No, if the buyer would end up unsatisfied, then he woudn’t make the purchase in the first place. Duh?

So you are saying that all people who buy things are happy with their price other wise they wouldn’t buy them?! You are confusing product satisfaction with customer satisfaction. A person who buys his precursor won’t be upset that the precursor was damaged, ineffective, the wrong color ect. But a person is bound to be miffed when they know that they had to pay more then the items perceived “fair market value”* because a person was interested in making profit well beyond what most would deem reasonable.

I notice you didn’t feel the need to respond to the other points, but instead tried to insult me as if by implying that I don’t understand something that you clearly have no handle on yourself.

• The fair market value may be closer to the current market prices but the average consumer doesn’t believe that this is the case. This is why we see so many people complaining about the price even though with out a solid working knowledge of the return rate from the mystic forge it is difficult to say what the fair market value actually is. For all we know the market might actually be half the cost of the fair market value of an item.

The following is a fair market value estimation based on a return rate of 1/1000 mystic forge attempts giving a precursor, with a average of 15% of attempts leading to a Exotic item.
I am NOT saying these actually are the rates just something to work with and toy around for people who like numbers

X = (4 * Rare weapon value)* 1000 – 150 exotic rare weapon value- ( X * what ever the drop rate is for the Large chests/ the amount of precursors the chest can drop) – (X * What ever the drop rate is from mobs/ the amount of the precursor the mob can drop)

If you assumed The value of a rare great sword was .25G and the value of a exotic greatsword at 2.5G the estimated true value would be <625G. With so many moving parts including existing supply and demand its difficult to pin down a fair market value on any item.

I remember “merchant guilds” in runescape.

There wasn’t really anything benign about it. People in the guild would all completely buy out an item, then it’d be a game to see who could hold long enough to see the item go up as much as possible but get out early enough to dump on the rest in the guild still trying to buy in.

It would be no different here.

Malediktus.9250:

Market manipulators should be permanently banned, no excuses.

The trading post in Guild Wars 2 is a prime example, why a free market wont work out well in the long run. Rich get richer and the people who actually play the game get poorer.

Actually economists have proven that the market can maintain itself even as the income gap grows. What the income gap does do is create a negative social impact. While this could have a long term negative result for the market (Imagine if because there were so many poor people in a country that they revolted and productivity was at a standstill? The market feels the negative effect of income inequality. I thought this happened in Egypt?) the short term effect on the market of a steady rise in the income gap is likely non existent.

Grazingcattle.1627:

X = (4 * Rare weapon value)* 1000 – 150 exotic rare weapon value- ( X * what ever the drop rate is for the Large chests/ the amount of precursors the chest can drop) – (X * What ever the drop rate is from mobs/ the amount of the precursor the mob can drop)

If you assumed The value of a rare great sword was .25G and the value of a exotic greatsword at 2.5G the estimated true value would be <625G. With so many moving parts including existing supply and demand its difficult to pin down a fair market value on any item.

They are worth less, because dozens of people get precursors by pure luck from drops, chests or first try mystic forges and in result dont have to worry about the theoretical mystic forge value.

Malediktus.9250:

Grazingcattle.1627:

X = (4 * Rare weapon value)* 1000 – 150 exotic rare weapon value- ( X * what ever the drop rate is for the Large chests/ the amount of precursors the chest can drop) – (X * What ever the drop rate is from mobs/ the amount of the precursor the mob can drop)

If you assumed The value of a rare great sword was .25G and the value of a exotic greatsword at 2.5G the estimated true value would be <625G. With so many moving parts including existing supply and demand its difficult to pin down a fair market value on any item.

They are worth less, because dozens of people get precursors by pure luck from drops, chests or first try mystic forges and in result dont have to worry about the theoretical mystic forge value.

<625G means less then 625G Its difficult to quantify the amount that come from drops and chests. Even if someone gets it on their first try in the mystic forge another person has a = chance statistically speaking of not getting it until their 2,000th try. Since we can only use the average to work out the fair market value it doesn’t matter if people are getting it on their first try.

Also the numbers I used are mostly made up. Its just a best guess of what i think the drop rate might look like… but it still doesn’t account for the % of return with exotic mystic forging so take it for what you will.

This thread has turned into a fight between players and that was not the aim.

I set the 250g requirement because if you haven’t been able to extract that wealth out of the market already odds are one of the following is true.

-You don’t have the interest in playing and researching markets.

-You don’t have the time required to make that much money on markets.

-You don’t understand the markets well enough to make that much money.

You have to understand that if any of the statements above are true then when we are sharing information, you are probably not going to be able to be an equal partner with everyone else in the guild.

The guild is first and foremost about sharing trading information and data in a smaller and more secure setting than these forums or reddit. I am not requiring you have the money because I am going to demand you buy 250g of X to inflate the price. I am suggesting if you haven’t been able to come up with 250g since the game launched you probably would not be an equal member in the Guild.

This is pretty much why everyone hates the market players. But I appreciate your being transparent about manipulating the whole thing to your advantage.

Ravion Hawk.4736:

If you’re trying to make me feel guilty for my comment and dislike of market manipulators, it isn’t working.

I’m a working man pulling 50+ hours a week as an armed guard. I hate market manipulators in real life and I hate them in games I paid for to enjoy.

ANet has the ability to hamstring the market manipulators and fix the in game economy so those of us with real lives can enjoy the game as casual players. It is time ANet showed their ability to fix the market and deal with the power traders.

Ermmm, I play casually (ie usually less than 2 hours a day) and I market manipulate even when not on line :O. Being “casual” isn’t remotely related since the whole point of market manipulating is that it’s very little time for huge reward, if anything casuals benefit from it more than anyone else.

goes back to turning 20g profit a day for about an half an hour active play

It’s not the way the game was intended to be played. If it was they’d advertise it as such. You’re just performing an activity that most people find tedious and reaping the benefit of it. I wouldn’t care except that you can basically buy the “endgame.”

Kills it all for me. Thanks.

So other people having more than you kills your ‘endgame’? There is not much for you to enjoy in this world then.

Not the fact that you have more, but that you don’t have DR on your method and that your method isn’t dependent on grouping up with people, and that your method requires not waypoint costs or armor repairs, and that your method is insanely fast….

Should I go on?

Is it just me or is the game screaming at me to not really play it?

Yes it is, but you should not blame the players for that.

Well, don’t hate me, but I hope they nerf the heck out of your method soon. Not against you personally, but just overall.

My method? I do not grind the TP anymore, because it is boring and pointless in the end, because what can I buy? One of those legendaries that I do not really like lookwise?

You just sound very bitter to be honest, better leave the forums completely and ask yourself if you actually have fun logging in or not.

I’m not bitter. Just frustrated with hearing the same arguments from market players. I still enjoy the game. Just trying to save it from itself.

You should define market players. The normal day trader is good for the normal player, whereas the manipulation of the precursor market is not.

I don’t mind the marketeers. They are playing the game that is in front of them, not the game many of us wish it were.

I blame the Devs for thinking an unrestricted mercantile free-for-all is an environment conducive to fun for more than a fraction of the participants.

They claimed to be making adjustments so that strolling across the landscape harvesting and killing would be rewarding more on par with dungeoning (though the mutant anti-bot diminshing returns code seems to have shot the hell out of that initiative). I’m waiting for the adjustments that make either one of those activities marginally comperable to never leaving Lion’s Arch at all…

The only way that is gonna happen is if adventure produces more goods, not more worthless mudflating coin.

The moment where you as a player go out to farm the stuff you need in a pace that is not tiring, the devs did a good job, in my opinion.

At the moment.. very far from it.

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

The moment where you as a player go out to farm the stuff you need in a pace that is not tiring, the devs did a good job, in my opinion.

Oh really? You know how it works then, so that you’re comfident the Devs did a god job? Because I’ve never seen anyone actually pin down and spell out the exact threshold where my free time and general enjoyment of harvesting is suddenly considered unworthy of reward by the Devs.

I do not get what you want to tell me with that at all, sorry.

What I am trying to say is, if you play an hour of WvW for example, you should be able to buy the same amount of an arbitrary item, compared to you farming that item directly or doing something different completely. Every style of play should hold the same reward.

And all that at a pace, where you kind of feel rewarded for your time. That is personal preference to some degree though, but 1 lodestone drop in 1.5 hours is not enough, in my opinion. If the same level of rarity has to be kept, at least let one drop every 15 minutes, but increase the total amount you need accordingly.

Edit: In case you only read what you quoted, there is one little line changing the whole meaning after that ..

I’m sayin that the same 1 hour activity rewards didly squat if you do it after having been logged in 5 hours compared to if its only your second hour online.

With dungeons, the rules are clear – first run of the day at full value, everything after that diminishes.

With landscape play, there is invisible anti-bot code that screws real players because it doesnt’ tell you when it’s kicked in.

Seven hours isn’t tiring for me on the days I feel like doing it, and I don’t SELL the stuff I harvest, so I’m clearly not a Bot, but the DR net scoops me up all the same.

So you agree with me, lol