Fixing asymmetric information in the TP.

Fixing asymmetric information in the TP.

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Arahael.3721

Arahael.3721

Currently, it is very easy to decrease the price of items that are supplied in great quantities due to asymmetric information. Because the way the game shows the information when you sell an item people will tend to select the Match Lowest seller option thus creating an adverse selection problem. The price can be easily manipulated by selling low quantities of the item at a very low price and profit due to the price difference with the real market price when you resell it.
Currently the only way to avoid this is to first select the Buy More from TP every time before you sell an item to be able to see the real market trend of that item.
This can be easily solved by showing the sell prices and quantities of the items in the sell option screen.

Fixing asymmetric information in the TP.

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Posted by: anzenketh.3759

anzenketh.3759

Lazy people pay the price when they are lazy. Unlazy people set their own buy/sell orders. This is not manipulation this is taking advantage of lazy people. A perfectly acceptable practice in a economy.

Every time I sell to highest seller and buy from highest seller I know I am loosing out on money the majority of time. But when I do I know I am being lazy and paying the price for it.

In Game: Storm Bluff Isle — Anzz, Anzenketh Kyoto

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Posted by: Arahael.3721

Arahael.3721

Of course it is acceptable and legal, but in Economics it is still considered asymmetric information and thus a market failure. In a market economy, the regulatory agent usually takes actions to prevent this by trying to make as much information as possible available, but economic agents still can buy and sell at the price they want. And lazy people will always be lazy and not read the information even if available.

Fixing asymmetric information in the TP.

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Posted by: Ensign.2189

Ensign.2189

I don’t understand what piece of information you think is asymmetric. The original seller that tanked the price has access to the same information (quantity @ price) that subsequent sellers have.

Fixing asymmetric information in the TP.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Thanks for posting this. There are actually several other examples:

  • Sellers can see their lowest existing listing for an item; buyers can’t see if they are already buying an item or at what price.
  • Buyers can see around a dozen existing instant-sell offers and a similar number of custom offers; sellers can only see the lowest instant-sell offer.
  • When searching for an item, the TP lists the instant sell offer; it provides no information about custom buy orders until you visit the panel to make one.
  • Similarly, when sell items, the TP lists the instant buy offers; it provides no information about custom sell prices.

This isn’t about laziness; this is about providing buyers & sellers with equal access to the same data, something required for a truly free market. Whenever there is “asymmetric data,” one party has the advantage of the other.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Dave.2536

Dave.2536

OP is saying information can be “hidden” by manipulative traders and impatient or clueless sellers. Something like

50 silver, 1 seller
75 silver, 5 sellers
76 silver, 10 sellers
76.5 silver, 15 sellers

hides the “true price” of an item. This information can still be obtained by trying to “buy more” before selling, and the question is whether this step should be necessary.

Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.

Fixing asymmetric information in the TP.

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Posted by: phys.7689

phys.7689

yeah this is pretty accurate. I think the UI and information provided could be updated, but UI work seems a valuable resource for all the development teams.

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Posted by: Aidan Savage.2078

Aidan Savage.2078

OP is saying information can be “hidden” by manipulative traders and impatient or clueless sellers. Something like

50 silver, 1 seller
75 silver, 5 sellers
76 silver, 10 sellers
76.5 silver, 15 sellers

hides the “true price” of an item. This information can still be obtained by trying to “buy more” before selling, and the question is whether this step should be necessary.

It’s a bit more difficult than the OP is making it out to be. In order to work the market like this, the market you’re doing it in needs to have a lot of room between buy/sell orders. That means it’s extremely unlikely to be done in markets that are, to quote them, “supplied in great quantities.” Main reason being that if the market really does have that much supply, it’s also going to be a market that sells extremely quickly. Second, you cant list lower than 14% of the current low without using multiple bids, otherwise someone will simply buy your sale listing and repost at a profit.

Or it could just be someone who’s listing items at lower than sell listings, but higher than buy listings, because they want to sell the item quickly.

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Posted by: Dave.2536

Dave.2536

Second, you cant list lower than 14% of the current low without using multiple bids, otherwise someone will simply buy your sale listing and repost at a profit.

This doesn’t help someone who is listing theirs right after the undercut gets posted but before someone else sees it and snatches it up. The 14% is irrelevant, though, since it may well have been “70 silver, 1 seller”.

Just as likely, using multiple bids as you mentioned:

55 silver, 1 seller
60 silver, 1 seller
65 silver, 2 sellers
75 silver, 5 sellers
76 silver, 10 sellers
76.5 silver, 15 sellers

Of course the market will stabilize back to ~75 soon. But perhaps not before OP sees only kitten when he sells his. Most of the time this situation doesn’t happen, and all of time it doesn’t happen for long. But some of the time it does/will happen for brief instances.

Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.

Fixing asymmetric information in the TP.

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Posted by: Korossive.7085

Korossive.7085

That is why you write your own application with TP API, and never use the horrid in-game gui

Fixing asymmetric information in the TP.

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Posted by: Snoring Sleepwalker.9073

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073

You want to know the worst part about how horrible the TP UI is ?

The trading post is a copy of Eve Online’s market that ANET made worse. Some of the changes make sense. For example, item location would be meaningless when we have waypoints. Without location mattering, the minimum transaction size for buy orders is also be pointless.

But removing some parts doesn’t make any sense. For example, the window showing every single buy and sell order in the region. Or the chart showing data on the prices the item sold for (green bars down the bottom are trade volume).

What I think happened is that ANET decided that spreadsheets and charts didn’t fit the ‘painterly’ ascetic they want for GW2. So they tried to remove them from the TP. Problem is that spreadsheets and charts are the best way to display the data.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

City of Heroes’ Consignment House style market did show the time and price of the last five transactions. It gave you the information to judge what a fair price was and how frequently sales occurred. It still didn’t tell you the amount sold at each transaction so you don’t quite have a handle on volume but include a 24hr total volume and running average transaction price on our TP would be very informative.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Brother Grimm.5176

Brother Grimm.5176

If the screen only shows a limited number of transactions (n), the same “UI manipulation” as the OP points out could continue by putting in n+1 false transactions….. If you can’t see the full list of buy / sell orders the problem isn’t really corrected.

We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

Way to apply bayesian game theory to gw2! I give you props OP.

Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

The issue being described by the OP isn’t one of manipulation … it’s one of a seller desiring a quick sell and being unaware of the trends/value of the goods they sell. The responsibility is on the seller to be aware. No one needs their hands held here.

Admittedly, I would like the internal market tools of the game to have some historical info but anyone behaving as the OP describes is much more significantly affected by their own ignorance than some real time fishing of low selling goods.

(edited by Obtena.7952)