In the last couple of days we have noticed a sharp increase in reports from players who were cheated while trading or buying items outside of the Black Lion Trading Post. One offer that is currently popular with scammers is offering Bolts of Damask at around 10g.
The relatively low cost of this item might make it seem easier to trust that the deal is legitimate. However, we’ve seen just the opposite. Scammers are offering these items and then not delivering them. Please keep in mind that if you lose gold in this manner it will not be returned. Please also remember that any account that we verify to have been involved in the defrauding of players will be investigated and suspended or terminated.
We strongly encourage our players to use the Trading Post because it was designed to ensure that every transaction is legitimate. Please pass these comments along to your fellow players, particularly if you see these “deals” being offered in chat.
It is almost like if there was a CoD option for mail, or a direct trade option that exist in ever other MMO on the market, this would not be an issue. But hey we got to keep making Evon richer and richer.
It is almost like if there was a CoD option for mail, or a direct trade option that exist in ever other MMO on the market, this would not be an issue. But hey we got to keep making Evon richer and richer.
That’s not the point here Shadow. In GW1, there were still scams via player to player trading. By using a tool like the Black Lion Trading Post, you eliminate 100% of scams, all while creating a dynamic 24/7 marketplace that spans across all servers in game. The “fees” or “taxes” that the seller gets hit with is a Gold Sink (also good for the health of the in game economy).
Gaile has discussed this issue a lot over the past year. If a player chooses to make a deal outside of the TP, Anet will not assist them if they get scammed. They do not get involved with “Gentleman’s Agreements”.
It is almost like if there was a CoD option for mail, or a direct trade option that exist in ever other MMO on the market, this would not be an issue. But hey we got to keep making Evon richer and richer.
I can understand why you’d want a P2P trade system, but given the above post explaining the way the TP functions as an anti-scam tool, it seems rather silly.
Whatever guild I’m repping today [tag]
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
I’m glad I am never even giving the option to opt out of this “anti scam” tool. I guess Anet just think I’m too stupid to be able to trade using a standard p2p system.
I’m glad I am never even giving the option to opt out of this “anti scam” tool. I guess Anet just think I’m too stupid to be able to trade using a standard p2p system.
Yes you’re not stupid but you have to account for the majority of the playerbase who got scammed recently.
People who fell for the Bolts of Damask for 10g have nothing but themselves to blame, it only takes basic math and less than 5 seconds to figure out scammers are trying to sell items cheaper than filling up the highest buy offers AFTER taxes lol.
I tried pm’ing a scammer saying why he is selling at a loss when he could fill up the highest buy offer instead and his lame excuse was he doesn’t have 60s LMAO. This is after he was pretending to have sold already 1 bolt.
No, the TP is probably the largest gold sink in the game and the ability to keep the money supply under control is paramount. That’s why you can’t opt out.
I’ve been saying that from the beginning, and yet there always is some idiot whom will not listen to reason. Natural selection at its finest. Sad that this post needs to exist.
while i don’t agree with such behaviour (the scammer’s one), at the same time is totally the scammed one that is in fault, for trust someone else.
Is not the first game where ppl just take money and go away, if some1 is dumb enough to get scammed well, he deserves (a bit rude to say, but it’s the point..)
There is a TP? then use it.
I just think it’s suspicious that we don’t have peer to peer trading where you both place items and agree to the transaction. Of course you can still be scammed this way but not that easily.. Anyway suspicious we don’t have that alongside the trading post. Because the trading post happens to tax 15% of all spendings. It seems like it was deliberately created to be a gold sink and peer to peer trading would allow for less gold to sink in the TP.
Listen City of Heroes had P2P trades that were fairly bulletproof. But it was in the game because a trading post … consignment house … wasn’t added until they had a crafting system which was year 3 of the game.
Not sure if it’s continuing existence contributed to the hyper inflation or just a side effect of rarity creating behavior that caused farming which netted a lot of money when you were looking for a specific item. We routinely had players that had to be creative how they stored their money because they had hit the bank’s 2 billion cap.
It requires a lot of effort to acquire the cloth, along with the fact that if you collect enough of them, you can have the highest stats userly possible. IIRC, exotics used to be ridiculously expensive when they first appeared too.
After the bank cap in the first game resulted in ectos and armbraces being used as pseudo currencies, I think the developers would be dumb to put a cap in here.
Listen City of Heros had P2P trades that were fairly bulletproof. But it was in the game because a trading post … consignment house … wasn’t added until they had a crafting system which was year 3 of the game.
Not sure if it’s continuing existence contributed to the hyper inflation or just a side effect of rarity creating behavior that caused farming which netted a lot of money when you were looking for a specific item. We routinely had players that had to be creative how they stored their money because they had hit the bank’s 2 billion cap.
I’m glad I am never even giving the option to opt out of this “anti scam” tool. I guess Anet just think I’m too stupid to be able to trade using a standard p2p system.
We had a P2P system in GW1, and even with systems to stop scamming people kept getting scammed and forums got filled with posts about people raging about being scammed.
Unless it is 100% IMPOSSIBLE to scam someone (such as with the TP) there will ALWAYS be scams.
It is almost like if there was a CoD option for mail, or a direct trade option that exist in ever other MMO on the market, this would not be an issue. But hey we got to keep making Evon richer and richer.
I’ve seen similar scams in games with CoD. It reduces the risk somewhat, but there are always ways to get around the system, whatever system it is.
How about a normal trade like in ALL the other MMos Anet?
Oh, you mean so that we will see a MASSIVE increase of scams?
do you even know what a normal trade feature is?
Yep and lots of items have the same in game icon so when someone doesn’t souble or triple check the transaction we will have just as many players crying scammer then too… not to mention the inflation it would cause in the prices of things without the tp as a gold sink.
How about a normal trade like in ALL the other MMos Anet?
Oh, you mean so that we will see a MASSIVE increase of scams?
do you even know what a normal trade feature is?
Yep and lots of items have the same in game icon so when someone doesn’t souble or triple check the transaction we will have just as many players crying scammer then too… not to mention the inflation it would cause in the prices of things without the tp as a gold sink.
sure the TP is the only gold sink in the game right? Waypoints Ascended gear etc
Listen City of Heros had P2P trades that were fairly bulletproof. But it was in the game because a trading post … consignment house … wasn’t added until they had a crafting system which was year 3 of the game.
Not sure if it’s continuing existence contributed to the hyper inflation or just a side effect of rarity creating behavior that caused farming which netted a lot of money when you were looking for a specific item. We routinely had players that had to be creative how they stored their money because they had hit the bank’s 2 billion cap.
In my opinion, the lack of currency sinks early on put them in a situation that was hard to dig out of. We played the crap out of that game and after 3 years we had so much currency that we were standing in Atlas giving it away to new characters that had names and costumes we liked. The consignment house was also small enough and the pool of player currency large enough that it was easy for certain players to manipulate prices. If there hadn’t been so many crafting materials, it might have been better.
Personally I think it’s a good idea to not have direct trading, but still allow transferring of items through the mail so we can send gifts to guildies or friends. Supporting off-TP trading just makes the market less efficient and drives up the prices for everyone so that folks that have a tolerance for sitting in LA all day looking for a trade can avoid the gold sink.
Don’t ever think you know what’s right for the other person.
He might start thinking he knows what’s right for you. —Paul Williams
Listen City of Heros had P2P trades that were fairly bulletproof. But it was in the game because a trading post … consignment house … wasn’t added until they had a crafting system which was year 3 of the game.
Not sure if it’s continuing existence contributed to the hyper inflation or just a side effect of rarity creating behavior that caused farming which netted a lot of money when you were looking for a specific item. We routinely had players that had to be creative how they stored their money because they had hit the bank’s 2 billion cap.
I remember people regularly trading 3-4 billion inf for a single pvp dropped item, requiring trust in someone not to screw you out of quite a bit of in-game money. Those items were farmed with player kills only so no money was created in farming them, however those devs were clueless on how to run an economy and there were lots of bugs/hacks/duping going on in that game with practically no enforcement like we have here.
If anet adds ingame trading you can expect some pretty huge inflation to follow. As much as i’d like it to save a little money I hope it doesnt happen for the sake of the game in the long run.
As to the OP, anet should not be punishing people for preying on stupidity. If I kill someone in wvw they lose money in repair fees because of their ignorance much in the same way yet anet doesnt punish player kills. Just place a pop-up warning into the email system when people attempt to send money stating that you assume all risk doing so.
How about a normal trade like in ALL the other MMos Anet?
Oh, you mean so that we will see a MASSIVE increase of scams?
do you even know what a normal trade feature is?
Yep and lots of items have the same in game icon so when someone doesn’t souble or triple check the transaction we will have just as many players crying scammer then too… not to mention the inflation it would cause in the prices of things without the tp as a gold sink.
sure the TP is the only gold sink in the game right? Waypoints Ascended gear etc
The TP is a major…major gold sink in this game. I don’t think the devs would know where to sink gold fast enough without it. It is the only reason I can see why they allow such unregulated activity using it vs shutting down everything else in the game that is remotely out of sync. It is so far left field in terms of this that it’s ability to sink is the only way to justify it….I guess.
How about a normal trade like in ALL the other MMos Anet?
Oh, you mean so that we will see a MASSIVE increase of scams?
do you even know what a normal trade feature is?
A “normal trade feature” is what GW has, and despite three different additional protections* that game has still suffered from rampant scamming.
The three protections are specifically reassigned icons for common scam items, a warning color indicating if any item has been adjusted after certain conditions occurred, and a warning message before you can complete the trade.
How about a normal trade like in ALL the other MMos Anet?
Oh, you mean so that we will see a MASSIVE increase of scams?
do you even know what a normal trade feature is?
Yep and lots of items have the same in game icon so when someone doesn’t souble or triple check the transaction we will have just as many players crying scammer then too… not to mention the inflation it would cause in the prices of things without the tp as a gold sink.
sure the TP is the only gold sink in the game right? Waypoints Ascended gear etc
The TP is a major…major gold sink in this game. I don’t think the devs would know where to sink gold fast enough without it. It is the only reason I can see why they allow such unregulated activity using it vs shutting down everything else in the game that is remotely out of sync. It is so far left field in terms of this that it’s ability to sink is the only way to justify it….I guess.
If you need justification for it just remember sitting for days in kamadan spamming the same thing trying to sell or buy something… its nice avoiding that and all the added chat spam.
People should be more angry about this. Ive been playing for over a year, and the feeling i have is that Anet is trying to take all the money from you ( Mystic toilet, 15% taxes on TP, the ridiculous waste of money that is ascended crafting, and a long etc)
Im just tired of the game, will stop playing this month. I do feel SCAMED by Anet and their obsessive intend to take away gold and real money from players. Bye bye.
I just think people need a better alternative. The 15% tax allows players a greater market of buyer, you don’t have to find your buyer and it can be done everywhere in the world. All of those conveniences would keep the TP very popular. I think it is asinine to compare gw2 with only TP system and gw1 with only a p2p system. How does this compare to WOW or LOTRO or any other MMO where you have both p2p trade AND a mass trade system like an AH. Most of the time people get tired of trying to sell something with p2p and just eat the taxes. This is evident in this game as well, I’ve always sold things at highest seller, and always bought things at lower buyer, 90% people want instant gratification.
P.D: There would be NO SCAMMING in the game if the Trade Post would be TAX FREE. Its so simply Anet. Of course, that wont happen. XD
Because the whole market would explode if there are no taxes.
I wouldn’t mind however something like the sales crates in EQ2 .. if we ever get housing.
EVERY MMO is awesome until it is released then its unfinished. A month after release it just sucks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
P.D: There would be NO SCAMMING in the game if the Trade Post would be TAX FREE. Its so simply Anet. Of course, that wont happen. XD
a tax is necessary, or ppl would use TP like as personal bank, putting large stock of items in sell for like 99999999 gold.
plus, it helps the market flexibility, since u can’t just outbid no stop without risk.
Althought, maybe 15% is a bit too much, 10% would be fine imho
No, the TP is probably the largest gold sink in the game and the ability to keep the money supply under control is paramount. That’s why you can’t opt out.
It is also the biggest source of income for some people who know how to game the tp.
No, the TP is probably the largest gold sink in the game and the ability to keep the money supply under control is paramount. That’s why you can’t opt out.
It is also the biggest source of income for some people who know how to game the tp.
and that is still a sink. The TP doesn’t generate wealth, it transfers it (minus a cut) from one player to another. Macroeconomically it is absolutely the best sink in the game, nothing else even comes close.
No, the TP is probably the largest gold sink in the game and the ability to keep the money supply under control is paramount. That’s why you can’t opt out.
It is also the biggest source of income for some people who know how to game the tp.
You do know the TP minimizes the effect those people can have, and their profit margins right?
Take away the TP and what will people do? Again, we have the perfect comparison in GW. For the longest time it was impossible to go into Temple of Balthazaar without seeing “WTB Keys 3.2k each” while 20 minutes later the same person spammed “WTS Keys 4k each.” (The specific price fluctuated over the years, but I seem to recall those numbers for a while.) The same behavior was rampant with unid golds, ectos, sapphires, rubies, and armbands.
Flippers still making profit even after tax is proof that tax is fine as it is.
If I could do anything about taxes though, i’d give it an option to pay tax+listing fee entirely out of profits. If a new player gets a Dusk as a drop its just going to sit in his inventory for months until he can afford to list it(even if filling a buy order), especially if there is no safe-trade function.
The current system does not limit incoming wealth. To take away the gold sinks, the gold will pile up and become useless. You won’t be able to use it to buy anything. If they chose to do that route, in game money would need to become scarce and limited like in the real world. Would you like to do a hard days work of farming only to get a few copper coins (Whose numbers would be determined by users currently on)?
(I love how these mods will delete an entire post with enlightening information to spare the feelings of someone who doesn’t know better)
so you will ban scamers but not return the gold ? :/
trading with mail is risky i do it only with ppl i know
who will be stupid to mail trade with strangers ?
“What you wish for may not be what she wishes for.” – Skull Knight
No, the TP is probably the largest gold sink in the game and the ability to keep the money supply under control is paramount. That’s why you can’t opt out.
It is also the biggest source of income for some people who know how to game the tp.
You do know the TP minimizes the effect those people can have, and their profit margins right?
Take away the TP and what will people do? Again, we have the perfect comparison in GW. For the longest time it was impossible to go into Temple of Balthazaar without seeing “WTB Keys 3.2k each” while 20 minutes later the same person spammed “WTS Keys 4k each.” (The specific price fluctuated over the years, but I seem to recall those numbers for a while.) The same behavior was rampant with unid golds, ectos, sapphires, rubies, and armbands.
I can’t say I agree as the tp funnels all players to the trader vs in gw 1 a trader was bound to players in their current location/server. So as in gw a trader had access to possible 1000s possible buyers/sellers in Kamadan (for example) while in gw2 they have access to 100,000s via our centralized game wide trading post.
A few months before gw2 was released, they implemented a sort of roll-back system that kept records of every transaction of the trade system in the first game in case of a hacking or scam. They claimed that the system would be in place in this game too when it was published. I wonder if it was the truth or if there is some sort of complication with it being used to buy gems?
so you will ban scamers but not return the gold ? :/
trading with mail is risky i do it only with ppl i know
who will be stupid to mail trade with strangers ?
so you will ban scamers but not return the gold ? :/
trading with mail is risky i do it only with ppl i know
who will be stupid to mail trade with strangers ?
They’re not returning the gold because they’ve told us on several occasions (easily 10 or so times since launch, more if you count support tickets and etc.) that we are on our own if we mail our things off instead of using the TP.
Whatever guild I’m repping today [tag]
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
It’d be better if they went to a system more like EVE. Let scamming become a profession and let people learn the hard way and don’t get involved at all.
There is no P2P trading in GW2, there is the TP and the gift item feature in the mail window. Any transaction outside of the TP is a gift and that is why they don’t return items/gold.
we strongly need a market that doesn t make give few players dozen thousands gold with minimal effort at the cost of other players…
When you encourge players to use TP, try to understand why many HATE the tp
TY
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
It is almost like if there was a CoD option for mail, or a direct trade option that exist in ever other MMO on the market, this would not be an issue. But hey we got to keep making Evon richer and richer.
That’s not the point here Shadow. In GW1, there were still scams via player to player trading. By using a tool like the Black Lion Trading Post, you eliminate 100% of scams, all while creating a dynamic 24/7 marketplace that spans across all servers in game. The “fees” or “taxes” that the seller gets hit with is a Gold Sink (also good for the health of the in game economy).
Gaile has discussed this issue a lot over the past year. If a player chooses to make a deal outside of the TP, Anet will not assist them if they get scammed. They do not get involved with “Gentleman’s Agreements”.
You are implying that scams are a bad thing. In all honesty its the buyers fault if they get screwed over. I don’t know, maybe I’m romanticizing about EVE Online and it’s lack of rules. I personally think scams make a game more interesting.
They ARE a bad thing. Scammers are intentionally setting out to defraud other players, and that’s why scammers should be reported and banned. At the same time, the buyers must also take a measure of responsibility, because they chose to trade outside of the safety net that is the TP, which is why ANet won’t refund gold or items lost to scammers.
Here is the reason I’m glad we don’t have a p2p trade system. Imagine you’re in LA (or any map) seeing the following scroll through map chat at a non stop rate:
Bippity: W2B Eternity @ 25000G willing to offer more in trade.*
Boppity: FS>>> [Shiro’s Mask][Ruinmaker][Impaler][Claw of the Howling King][Zho’s Coat][Giver’s Krait Pilum][Soldier’s Verdant Greatsword][Trident] all for 80s
Boppity: FS>>> T6 mats for 20s each. Buy 4 get the 5th free!!!!!! \(^0^)/
Boo: selling [The Bard] make me an offer willing to trade or for gold
SuperCala: need 2 buy ectos!! offering 25s for each pls
Fragalistic: l2s crafted gear – [Giver’s Pearl Hand Cannon][Giver’s Pearl Blunderbuss][Giver’s Pearl Needler][Giver’s Pearl Brazier]k[Giver’s Pearl Siren][Giver’s Emblazoned Boots][Giver’s Emblazoned Coat][Giver’s Emblazoned Gloves][Giver’s Emblazoned Helm][Giver’s Emblazoned Pants][Giver’s Emblazoned Shoulders] WANT TO SELL FOR 50S EACH
Boppity: FS>>> [Shiro’s Mask][Ruinmaker][Claw of the Howling King][Giver’s Krait Pilum][Soldier’s Verdant Greatsword] all for 80s
Boppity: FS>>> T6 mats for 20s each. Buy 4 get the 5th free!!!!!! \(^0^)/
Expialadoshus: can anyone sell me Entrophy? I have 10 gold
Bazinga: [DUSK] 600G [DUSK] 600G [DUSK] 600G [DUSK] 600G [DUSK] 600G [DUSK] 600G [DUSK] 600G [DUSK] 600G [DUSK] 600G [DUSK] 600G [DUSK] 600G [DUSK] 600G [DUSK] 600G [DUSK] 600G [DUSK] 600G [DUSK] 600G
I’ve dealt with map chat spam selling p2p style in too many MMO’s in the past. It’s obnoxious, it’s trashy, it’s distracting, and it takes away from real communication in world hubs where people are legitimately trying to interact with each other.
Pay your taxes, appreciate the gold sink cause we need it, and don’t buy from people directly unless they’re a guildy or somebody you know.
Between RNG boxes, the mystic forge and the gold/time sink that is ascended crafting, it seems like getting scammed by another player would require too much effort.
But to each his own.
You can’t starve the lions and be surprised when they start eating each other.
