I’m tired of seeing ppl getting rich from playing the TP like this is Wall Street Wars 2.
In reality I’m just jealous I don’t know how to invest. But still it’s ridiculous.
They’re making it harder and harder to make money outside of stupidly great RNG and spamming dungeon paths all day. The TP can be played on a lvl1 character where as speed clearing the dungeons more or less requires you to have a lvl80 in at least full exotics.
Follow the darkness into the depths, it’s more fun than the light can provide.
It’s actually “TP Wars 2”, btw.
and we make items cheaper for you instead of buy orders of 10s and sell listings of 60s for ecto, we equilibrate it to 35/36. 10s if you’re looking to sell it and 60s if you’re looking to buy it is a pretty crummy proposition.
If you want to see no one play the TP, then just sell everything you have via sell listing and buy everything via buy order. Then you can wait for things to be filled instead of us. Most of our coin is made by making purchases more convenient to everyone else.
I’m tired of seeing ppl getting rich from playing the TP like this is Wall Street Wars 2.
In reality I’m just jealous I don’t know how to invest. But still it’s ridiculous.
This is one of the most honest posts that I’ve seen in a while. It pretty much sums up 100% of the complaint threads in the trading forum. Kudos to you.
I’m tired of seeing ppl getting rich from playing the TP like this is Wall Street Wars 2.
In reality I’m just jealous I don’t know how to invest. But still it’s ridiculous.
I feel you dude, Ive tried looking into guides and tips on Flipping items, and it just becomes insanely confusing. even with all the websites and tools, i still fail to make a profit with the market rapidly changing every minute. You’re not the only one that feels that way
They’re making it harder and harder to make money outside of stupidly great RNG and spamming dungeon paths all day. The TP can be played on a lvl1 character where as speed clearing the dungeons more or less requires you to have a lvl80 in at least full exotics.
Actually, this is the most honest representation, and as many have said already there is something fundamentally wrong with a game design that uses their trade system as the best way to earn gold in the game.
Vini, Vidi, Vici, Viridis…I came, I saw, I conquered…I got a green??
They’re making it harder and harder to make money outside of stupidly great RNG and spamming dungeon paths all day. The TP can be played on a lvl1 character where as speed clearing the dungeons more or less requires you to have a lvl80 in at least full exotics.
Actually, this is the most honest representation, and as many have said already there is something fundamentally wrong with a game design that uses their trade system as the best way to earn gold in the game.
In real life, if you had a choice to make a living between hard manual labor on a farm, or sitting behind a computer for a couple of hours. which would you choose?
Some people like manual labor. Some don’t like it, but do it because they have to earn money to eat.
Some people like making money trading stocks. Some people are really good at it.
Neither choice is bad. It’s up to you to do what you want to. But I wouldn’t blame you for being jealous of someone making large sums of money for little effort. Not everyone has the skills to do so.
Which is the point I originally made, in an adventure game like GW2 there is something inherently wrong with the best way to earn gold which is the main currency used to purchase the items needed for the remainder of the content to be the trading system. There needs to be multiple paths to gain the currency needed not just one format and certainly not just a trading format, that is the flaw people are complaining about.
There are multiple paths. Where do you think the gold comes from prior to it being traded around on the trading post?
I don’t really care that you doubt who I am in real life, I have no reason to lie about it and I do understand how money works quite well I just completely disagree that this should be the best way to earn it because the game should never be designed with such limitations. Most certainly not if they intend to keep their customer base happy, not everyone is a financial guru and chooses to spend their free time playing the market which at this point is the only real alternative short of gambling with RNG if you wish to make a legendary etc. That as I’ve stated several times is just poor design and it needs to be fixed or at the very least controlled.
As far as free market, I won’t get into a long philosophical debate about the rights and wrongs of the market, I am just here to say that I don’t believe this should be the only way for making money efficiently in a game.
Vini, Vidi, Vici, Viridis…I came, I saw, I conquered…I got a green??
Well, what would be your suggestion to make the tp better? Just going on about “poor design” isnt very productive.
And everything you hear about potential profits on the tp is usually blown out of proportion. Sure some people make lots of profit but they are very few and dont influence the way you play the game in any way.
I would say that I don’t have a clear or definitive solution other than possibly limiting the amount of individual transactions, perhaps through time gating, they do it for crafting . Maybe another option is DR for the marketplace, they do it everywhere else which is why the only current option is TP.
Something needs to be done to change this but all I know now is if you come to this forum to even bring up a concern those who are profiting and don’t want to see change tear into everyone like rabid dogs and certainly that is by design. No one here to complain no change or threat to their position in the market, but at the end of the day it is still not right.
Vini, Vidi, Vici, Viridis…I came, I saw, I conquered…I got a green??
I don’t really care that you doubt who I am in real life, I have no reason to lie about it and I do understand how money works quite well I just completely disagree that this should be the best way to earn it because the game should never be designed with such limitations. Most certainly not if they intend to keep their customer base happy, not everyone is a financial guru and chooses to spend their free time playing the market which at this point is the only real alternative short of gambling with RNG if you wish to make a legendary etc. That as I’ve stated several times is just poor design and it needs to be fixed or at the very least controlled.
There isn’t a design flaw because the game is not designed to have the trading post be the most efficient way to acquire goods. It is the players who took a simple tool and turned it into the most efficient way to acquire goods in order to skip farming.
Once again, everything that is available on the trading post was put there by a player. You don’t have a problem with the market, you have a problem with other players.
I don’t really care that you doubt who I am in real life, I have no reason to lie about it and I do understand how money works quite well I just completely disagree that this should be the best way to earn it because the game should never be designed with such limitations. Most certainly not if they intend to keep their customer base happy, not everyone is a financial guru and chooses to spend their free time playing the market which at this point is the only real alternative short of gambling with RNG if you wish to make a legendary etc. That as I’ve stated several times is just poor design and it needs to be fixed or at the very least controlled.
As far as free market, I won’t get into a long philosophical debate about the rights and wrongs of the market, I am just here to say that I don’t believe this should be the only way for making money efficiently in a game.
1) There’s a reason why loot drop rates are controlled. I’m sure you should understand this with the claims you’re making.
2) As for the TP, there’s no reason to put any controls or limitations. Your personal preferences are not a justification for “bad design”.
3) There are many ways to make money in this game “efficiently”.
Note – A few smart market players doing well now would be in a different position if everyone did it. More competition = less profits to split. Once you understand how markets work, you’ll realize that your complaints in this area are off base. I’ll use real life examples to help you understand:
Steve Jobs did wonders for Apple because he developed something no one else did. He created efficiencies within his company that cut development costs as well. Since it took a while for competition to catch up, he made a lot of money. Same with TP players. They found markets that were profitable, and there were few competitors. Once more people participate, they can no longer make the same amount of money, since the TP doesn’t generate Gold, but merely transfers if between players (minus 15% each time). The Superior Sigil of Force is proof of what happens when competition spreads.
There isn’t a design flaw because the game is not designed to have the trading post be the most efficient way to acquire goods. It is the players who took a simple tool and turned it into the most efficient way to acquire goods in order to skip farming.
Once again, everything that is available on the trading post was put there by a player. You don’t have a problem with the market, you have a problem with other players.
All other areas of the game have had limitations put on them so things could not be abused to make excessive amounts of money all except the trading post. So by your logic it is ok that this one and only way to be really profitable in the game is kept this way but that doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that you use it right? That is pretty shortsighted, and certainly isn’t in the best interest of the health of the game, just your way of playing.
Vini, Vidi, Vici, Viridis…I came, I saw, I conquered…I got a green??
I think I could be rich. But I’m a sucker and spend my money on stuff like weapon skins and armor skins and dyes and crafting. I also hoard all my crafting materials until I want to buy something and then sell what I think I can afford not to keep. I don’t think that is has much to do with how much I make/farm per hour but how much I spend. The more I get the more I buy. If think if I never bought anything, only sold it, I would become rather wealthy…I might have to try an experiment on that one week.
The fundamental fact you keep missing is that I could choose to play the TP, I don’t by choice that still doesn’t change the fact that it is the most efficient way to make gold. That and only that is the flaw I’m trying to point out.
You’re right it’ll eventually come to an end either by more people playing the markets and squeezing out the competitors or by less people playing I’ve got my money on the latter.
Vini, Vidi, Vici, Viridis…I came, I saw, I conquered…I got a green??
All other areas of the game have had limitations put on them so things could not be abused to make excessive amounts of money all except the trading post.
1) There’s a reason why loot drop rates are controlled. I’m sure you should understand this with the claims you’re making.
2) As for the TP, there’s no reason to put any controls or limitations. Your personal preferences are not a justification for “bad design”.
All other areas of the game have had limitations put on them so things could not be abused to make excessive amounts of money all except the trading post. So by your logic it is ok that this one and only way to be really profitable in the game is kept this way but that doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that you use it right? That is pretty shortsighted, and certainly isn’t in the best interest of the health of the game, just your way of playing.
All other areas of the game are designed to provide specific rewards that are created out of thin air which causes inflation.
The trading post is players making deals with each other of their own free will, thus it is not controlled at all and does not create rewards out of thin air that cause inflation.
So to answer your question, yes, I am completely OK with that because that is the absolute best way to handle an economy AND it is in the best interest of the health of the game because it benefits ALL players.
1) There’s a reason why loot drop rates are controlled. I’m sure you should understand this with the claims you’re making.
2) As for the TP, there’s no reason to put any controls or limitations. Your personal preferences are not a justification for “bad design”.
2) As for the TP. there is no reason to keep it the same as it is, your personal preferences are not a justification for “good design”
Vini, Vidi, Vici, Viridis…I came, I saw, I conquered…I got a green??
If you think the market is messed up now imagine what it would be like if you limit transactions. The crafters add thousands of items to the market per day. The flippers ensure that players are not undervaluing a item. The salvager/mystic forgers take thousand of low value items and make high value items. Limiting transactions would increase the supply of some items, reduce the number of high value items and decrease the value of crafting mats. Curious how long do you think it takes a TP find marketable items? It is not like anyone can control a market for a long period of time.
Yes it is the most profitable way to make money but not many players are able to fine a niche that they can profit from. It you tell others how you make money that market could become oversaturated and stop begin profitable. You could gamble and lose alot of money (precursors, sigil, runes). You can misclick as someone undercut a item by 50% and you lose all of your profit. Alot of stuff can go wrong with playing the market, but it is the more tedious and profitable way to make money.
Ele – Tarnished Coast
“Quoth the raven nevermore”
Platinum Scout: 300% MF
1) There’s a reason why loot drop rates are controlled. I’m sure you should understand this with the claims you’re making.
2) As for the TP, there’s no reason to put any controls or limitations. Your personal preferences are not a justification for “bad design”.
2) As for the TP. there is no reason to keep it the same as it is, your personal preferences are not a justification for “good design”
It’s not my personal preferences, but rather sound economic and business knowledge that tells me that everything is working well.
To this date, there hasn’t been a single player on the forums that brought up any valid reason as to why the TP needs to change, or be limited. The usual complaint that “Player A is making too much money” is the same as saying “Bill Gates is making too much money”. Now if you wanna talk about how Microsoft is “bad design”, I’ll gladly let you have the podium.
The only way ANet could make playing the game more rewarding than playing the TP would be to make end-game content with highly desired items that are so difficult to obtain (but reliably obtainable) that only a select few people can obtain them and then everyone else purchases them from those players.
As a hypothetical idea:
- Dungeon that requires 100 AR to even enter or you die and are ejected
- One team wipe = Ejected
- Bosses that are randomized and/or hyper-difficult requiring utmost timing precision and coordination
- Dungeon time limits
- Every mob respawns, meaning you have to keep moving or get murdered from lingering
Honestly, this sounds like more of a request for the content team than the TP team.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
There isn’t a design flaw because the game is not designed to have the trading post be the most efficient way to acquire goods. It is the players who took a simple tool and turned it into the most efficient way to acquire goods in order to skip farming.
Once again, everything that is available on the trading post was put there by a player. You don’t have a problem with the market, you have a problem with other players.
All other areas of the game have had limitations put on them so things could not be abused to make excessive amounts of money all except the trading post. So by your logic it is ok that this one and only way to be really profitable in the game is kept this way but that doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that you use it right? That is pretty shortsighted, and certainly isn’t in the best interest of the health of the game, just your way of playing.
No, other areas of the game had limitations to limit how much coin and items are injected into the game’s economy. It wasn’t to limit a farmer’s or dungeon/boss runner’s income, that was incidental to the actual reason.
TP lovers are still missing the point. Its not about inflation and money sharing its about the game at endgame, basically becomes a gold wars game. Content takes a back seat to making gold, because in general content doesnt get you to your end game goals very fast.
People who didnt buy the game to play the TP think this is a bad design.
If you get invited to play basketball, you expect to play basketball
If you buy an action game you expect primary way to progress is through action
you buy an adventure game, you expect primary way to progress is through adventure
They’re making it harder and harder to make money outside of stupidly great RNG and spamming dungeon paths all day. The TP can be played on a lvl1 character where as speed clearing the dungeons more or less requires you to have a lvl80 in at least full exotics.
Actually, this is the most honest representation, and as many have said already there is something fundamentally wrong with a game design that uses their trade system as the best way to earn gold in the game.
In real life, if you had a choice to make a living between hard manual labor on a farm, or sitting behind a computer for a couple of hours. which would you choose?
Some people like manual labor. Some don’t like it, but do it because they have to earn money to eat.
Some people like making money trading stocks. Some people are really good at it.
Neither choice is bad. It’s up to you to do what you want to. But I wouldn’t blame you for being jealous of someone making large sums of money for little effort. Not everyone has the skills to do so.
Personally I view trading as an unethical way of making money (both in RL and ingame). The potential earnings are in no proportion to the money you can earn with real labor. Also trading provides zero aggregate value added. Its just a way for lazy people to make money.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
There isn’t a design flaw because the game is not designed to have the trading post be the most efficient way to acquire goods. It is the players who took a simple tool and turned it into the most efficient way to acquire goods in order to skip farming.
Once again, everything that is available on the trading post was put there by a player. You don’t have a problem with the market, you have a problem with other players.
All other areas of the game have had limitations put on them so things could not be abused to make excessive amounts of money all except the trading post. So by your logic it is ok that this one and only way to be really profitable in the game is kept this way but that doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that you use it right? That is pretty shortsighted, and certainly isn’t in the best interest of the health of the game, just your way of playing.
No, other areas of the game had limitations to limit how much coin and items are injected into the game’s economy. It wasn’t to limit a farmer’s or dungeon/boss runner’s income, that was incidental to the actual reason.
in all actuality this is probably false. Based on GW1, which had a fairly self contained opt in only trading system. They nerfed farms repeatedly, because they didnt want people playing a certain way. Or people feeling like they had to play a certain class/build in order to succeed.
So yeah, they would nerf farms even if they had no effect on the economy. My guess is the tp stays as is because John smith wants it to be the way it is.
The only way ANet could make playing the game more rewarding than playing the TP would be to make end-game content with highly desired items that are so difficult to obtain (but reliably obtainable) that only a select few people can obtain them and then everyone else purchases them from those players.
As a hypothetical idea:
- Dungeon that requires 100 AR to even enter or you die and are ejected
- One team wipe = Ejected
- Bosses that are randomized and/or hyper-difficult requiring utmost timing precision and coordination
- Dungeon time limits
- Every mob respawns, meaning you have to keep moving or get murdered from lingering
Honestly, this sounds like more of a request for the content team than the TP team.
People would end up making more “It’s too hard” threads if this happened.
There are those who want content that they can do. There are those who want hard content. Then there are those who just want valuable rewards for little effort. To solve this riddle, Anet should just bring out world wide Tribulation mode as an option. Sorta like how Diablo had it. If you die once, you lose everything on that character.
Personally I view trading as an unethical way of making money (both in RL and ingame). The potential earnings are in no proportion to the money you can earn with real labor. Also trading provides zero aggregate value added. Its just a way for lazy people to make money.
While I would agree that trading for trading sake in the real world adds zero value, player merchants do provide a real benefit providing both coin and items on demand as well as establishing a fair price range based on current supply and demand.
There isn’t a design flaw because the game is not designed to have the trading post be the most efficient way to acquire goods. It is the players who took a simple tool and turned it into the most efficient way to acquire goods in order to skip farming.
Once again, everything that is available on the trading post was put there by a player. You don’t have a problem with the market, you have a problem with other players.
All other areas of the game have had limitations put on them so things could not be abused to make excessive amounts of money all except the trading post. So by your logic it is ok that this one and only way to be really profitable in the game is kept this way but that doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that you use it right? That is pretty shortsighted, and certainly isn’t in the best interest of the health of the game, just your way of playing.
No, other areas of the game had limitations to limit how much coin and items are injected into the game’s economy. It wasn’t to limit a farmer’s or dungeon/boss runner’s income, that was incidental to the actual reason.
in all actuality this is probably false. Based on GW1, which had a fairly self contained opt in only trading system. They nerfed farms repeatedly, because they didnt want people playing a certain way. Or people feeling like they had to play a certain class/build in order to succeed.
So yeah, they would nerf farms even if they had no effect on the economy. My guess is the tp stays as is because John smith wants it to be the way it is.
This is false. In GW1, they made numerous farming nerfs because it generated too easy of a way to make money. There was no TP, but there was an in game economy that was supplemented by the Guru auctions forums. I was making boat loads of ectos with my 55 Monk. That didn’t last long once someone spilled the farming secrets, and Anet nerfed it.
That was a grey market. It wasnt officially supported maintained or designed. In fact it mostly worked against their designs by not giving ectos a true price based on their trading algorhythm and getting around the money cap. They also nerfed non ecto farms.
In gw1 though, nerfing farms wasn’t that big a deal because you could get most things through gameplay.
The trading game was an opt in unsupported way of playing
The fundamental fact you keep missing is that I could choose to play the TP, I don’t by choice that still doesn’t change the fact that it is the most efficient way to make gold. That and only that is the flaw I’m trying to point out.
You’re right it’ll eventually come to an end either by more people playing the markets and squeezing out the competitors or by less people playing I’ve got my money on the latter.
But how is it a design flaw, if Anet leaves it in the players choice to ask ANY value for their item? You strike me as a competent person in real life so i wont bash you right away. If you want to chance anything about how the tp operates, you have to make a valid suggestion on how to alter it while improving gameplay experience for anyone.
There have been many topics about it on this forum with alot of input from Anet but every single suggestion failed to deliver a stutus that would be more desirable to the general player base.
I eagerly Await your suggestions.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
The only way ANet could make playing the game more rewarding than playing the TP would be to make end-game content with highly desired items that are so difficult to obtain (but reliably obtainable) that only a select few people can obtain them and then everyone else purchases them from those players.
As a hypothetical idea:
- Dungeon that requires 100 AR to even enter or you die and are ejected
- One team wipe = Ejected
- Bosses that are randomized and/or hyper-difficult requiring utmost timing precision and coordination
- Dungeon time limits
- Every mob respawns, meaning you have to keep moving or get murdered from lingering
Honestly, this sounds like more of a request for the content team than the TP team.
The tp team is probably the same team. Even though others make content they don’t generally decide what you get from it. The item and rewards team does that(many times designers don’t even know what the rewards are). And from off the cuff remarks from devs john smith is either involved in item/ rewatds team or has a strong voice there
That was a grey market. It wasnt officially supported maintained or designed. In fact it mostly worked against their designs by not giving ectos a true price based on their trading algorhythm and getting around the money cap. They also nerfed non ecto farms.
In gw1 though, nerfing farms wasn’t that big a deal because you could get most things through gameplay.
The trading game was an opt in unsupported way of playing
But that doesn’t eliminate the need to control the influx of coin into the economy to keep runaway inflation in check.
That was a grey market. It wasnt officially supported maintained or designed. In fact it mostly worked against their designs by not giving ectos a true price based on their trading algorhythm and getting around the money cap. They also nerfed non ecto farms.
In gw1 though, nerfing farms wasn’t that big a deal because you could get most things through gameplay.
The trading game was an opt in unsupported way of playing
But that doesn’t eliminate the need to control the influx of coin into the economy to keep runaway inflation in check.
There was no inflation in game. It was the grey market that created even the possibility of inflation. And only within those circles. All trade was only based on supply and demand. No flipping or even price setting.
You can’t really have inflation with set prices for goods and the inability to choose prices. Not to mention a gold cap. Only via your grey market was inflation real. Which was unsupported
That was a grey market. It wasnt officially supported maintained or designed. In fact it mostly worked against their designs by not giving ectos a true price based on their trading algorhythm and getting around the money cap. They also nerfed non ecto farms.
In gw1 though, nerfing farms wasn’t that big a deal because you could get most things through gameplay.
The trading game was an opt in unsupported way of playing
But that doesn’t eliminate the need to control the influx of coin into the economy to keep runaway inflation in check.
There was no inflation in game. It was the grey market that created even the possibility of inflation. And only within those circles. All trade was only based on supply and demand. No flipping or even price setting.
You can’t really have inflation with set prices for goods and the inability to choose prices. Not to mention a gold cap. Only via your grey market was inflation real. Which was unsupported
So youre point is that a trading system just like in gw1 would kill all the remedies without giving any opportunity of goodwill to traders?
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
TP lovers are still missing the point. Its not about inflation and money sharing its about the game at endgame, basically becomes a gold wars game. Content takes a back seat to making gold, because in general content doesnt get you to your end game goals very fast.
People who didnt buy the game to play the TP think this is a bad design.
If you get invited to play basketball, you expect to play basketball
If you buy an action game you expect primary way to progress is through action
you buy an adventure game, you expect primary way to progress is through adventure
^ Yeah, this really needed to be said.
I understand that many of you in this sub forum truly enjoy trading, and the basic economics that are at play here. But the average player is kind of miffed that so much of the game revolves around this system. We would rather have the game reward players in a way that enriches everyone’s in-game experience.
I’m surprised noone suggested this http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Material_trader
“Unlike regular merchants, a rare material trader’s stock and price is dependent on the supply and demand of the player base.”
their prices couldnt be affected by player’s schemes to make money by creating artificial supply and demand, speculations and what not. you could only affect it by selling and buying from them thus it was more close to real demand and real supply and it was much better for average casual players because they couldnt be exploited for ther coins by sneaky tp players and their schemes in such system.
You weren’t being belittled. You were being told that there is nothing wrong with playing the way you want, you just can’t expect to be able to get the best gold per hour by doing the things that provide the least gold per hour.
Which is the point I originally made, in an adventure game like GW2 there is something inherently wrong with the best way to earn gold which is the main currency used to purchase the items needed for the remainder of the content being the trading system. There needs to be multiple paths to gain the currency which are equally successful not just one format and certainly not just a trading format, that is the flaw people are complaining about. I can pretty much guarantee they did not start to design the game with the intent that there be only one realistic way to earn gold and it only be the TP.
This is actually not surprising.
(1) market participants in the TP are limited by interest (the pool of profit is limited by external activities), and most people playing GW2 didn’t join to play the TP
(2) most traders are more mediocre than those who boast of their success — you see a bias in samples when you look at what people say; the same is true for e.g. precursors
If you want to improve things, then make it easier to participate in the TP effectively (e.g. a default buy/sell option which splits the buy/sell spread, so it takes fewer keystrokes and more people use it). Reducing activity by those who enjoy the TP would just reduce the overall market efficiency — meaning worse prices in many situations (too high or too low).
TP lovers are still missing the point. Its not about inflation and money sharing its about the game at endgame, basically becomes a gold wars game. Content takes a back seat to making gold, because in general content doesnt get you to your end game goals very fast.
People who didnt buy the game to play the TP think this is a bad design.
If you get invited to play basketball, you expect to play basketball
If you buy an action game you expect primary way to progress is through action
you buy an adventure game, you expect primary way to progress is through adventure
^ Yeah, this really needed to be said.
I understand that many of you in this sub forum truly enjoy trading, and the basic economics that are at play here. But the average player is kind of miffed that so much of the game revolves around this system. We would rather have the game reward players in a way that enriches everyone’s in-game experience.
When you sell unwanted drops and get a better price for them than you would otherwise have — that is how your experience is enriched. When you go to buy something you need, and can actually find it on the TP (despite the fact that it hasn’t dropped for months, e.g. snowflakes) — that is how your experience is enriched.
I won’t say that it’s perfect, and I do think using the TP should be less tedious. I’m not interested in most schemes, but I do enjoy speculation (e.g. snowflakes, karka shells, watchwork sprockets … or my less successful forays with pristine spores and toxic recipes). And I think if your proposal is aimed at making the game less fun for people who enjoy the TP, you’ll also make it worse for those who don’t.
The only reason people who play TP would hurt you is if you expected players to sell you items cheaper than the items are worth, or if you measure your worth by comparison to the richest person around, or if you fall for schemes to manipulate prices. (The last one is the only one where I’d agree: I’d be fine with proposals intended to make that harder … though per JS’ comments, most attempts at market manipulation aren’t successful, a few are.)
How would you feel about an option for a buy/sell pricewhich is somewhere between the current buy and sell offers (I like the midpoint)? I would be willing to use that, but find it too tedious to enter the midpoint manually each time I want to sell something; I know it’s not needed right now, but I suspect that if it existed the buy/sell prices would be more likely to converge. (This does mean more efficient pricing, and less profit for flippers … at least for active markets.) The only real downside I see is that it might reduce the depth of orders … but I think prices would fluctuate enough during the day that you could still do range trading.
TP lovers are still missing the point. Its not about inflation and money sharing its about the game at endgame, basically becomes a gold wars game. Content takes a back seat to making gold, because in general content doesnt get you to your end game goals very fast.
People who didnt buy the game to play the TP think this is a bad design.
If you get invited to play basketball, you expect to play basketball
If you buy an action game you expect primary way to progress is through action
you buy an adventure game, you expect primary way to progress is through adventure
^ Yeah, this really needed to be said.
I understand that many of you in this sub forum truly enjoy trading, and the basic economics that are at play here. But the average player is kind of miffed that so much of the game revolves around this system. We would rather have the game reward players in a way that enriches everyone’s in-game experience.
The problem here is that the game already does this, but players just don’t want to do things to get rewarded. Everyone has the opportunity to run Arah for tokens to trade for unique armors. Everyone has the opportunity to do Tequatl or the Great Wurm for unique weapon boxes. Everyone has the opportunity to do SAB Tribulation mode for unique colored holo weapons.
The heart of these complaints is that players feel “Entitled” to good stuff with no effort. That, and the jealousy of some over the players who do well with the market. And once you realize that the game doesn’t revolve around the TP, you’ll noticed that all the complainers have nothing to stand on. Players choose to use the TP to speed up the acquisition of goods for instant gratification.
How would you feel about an option for a buy/sell pricewhich is somewhere between the current buy and sell offers (I like the midpoint)? I would be willing to use that, but find it too tedious to enter the midpoint manually each time I want to sell something; I know it’s not needed right now, but I suspect that if it existed the buy/sell prices would be more likely to converge. (This does mean more efficient pricing, and less profit for flippers … at least for active markets.) The only real downside I see is that it might reduce the depth of orders … but I think prices would fluctuate enough during the day that you could still do range trading.
That would be a problem for those who aren’t paying attention and simply want coin, any amount will do, right now. The midpoint will become the “new” low sell and the price will rapidly move toward the high bid.
So some players aren’t going to get their coin right away on sale, forcing them to spend a few moments switching to high bid, and then posting to complain about it and demand a setting for the TP. And with a high velocity item, the sale price will quickly revert to just above high bid and the seller isn’t really getting any more coin when it does sell.
To much uproar from indifferent sellers who simply use the TP as a better paying NPC vendor.
When you sell unwanted drops and get a better price for them than you would otherwise have — that is how your experience is enriched. When you go to buy something you need, and can actually find it on the TP (despite the fact that it hasn’t dropped for months, e.g. snowflakes) — that is how your experience is enriched.
The sheer volume of crap I loot, salvage and sell daily is one issue I have with the game design. Having to earn gold and straight up buy everything, is another. There’s too many things we ‘need’ on the one hand, and too few opportunities to get them through good, old-fashioned adventuring.
The only reason people who play TP would hurt you is if you expected players to sell you items cheaper than the items are worth, or if you measure your worth by comparison to the richest person around, or if you fall for schemes to manipulate prices. (The last one is the only one where I’d agree: I’d be fine with proposals intended to make that harder … though per JS’ comments, most attempts at market manipulation aren’t successful, a few are.)
I’m not bothered with the TP players. Like the OP, I am a little annoyed that I lack the patience and insight to succeed in this field, but moreso it’s the system itself that bums me out. I do not like having to buy everything.
When you sell unwanted drops and get a better price for them than you would otherwise have — that is how your experience is enriched. When you go to buy something you need, and can actually find it on the TP (despite the fact that it hasn’t dropped for months, e.g. snowflakes) — that is how your experience is enriched.
The sheer volume of crap I loot, salvage and sell daily is one issue I have with the game design. Having to earn gold and straight up buy everything, is another. There’s too many things we ‘need’ on the one hand, and too few opportunities to get them through good, old-fashioned adventuring.
The only reason people who play TP would hurt you is if you expected players to sell you items cheaper than the items are worth, or if you measure your worth by comparison to the richest person around, or if you fall for schemes to manipulate prices. (The last one is the only one where I’d agree: I’d be fine with proposals intended to make that harder … though per JS’ comments, most attempts at market manipulation aren’t successful, a few are.)
I’m not bothered with the TP players. Like the OP, I am a little annoyed that I lack the patience and insight to succeed in this field, but moreso it’s the system itself that bums me out. I do not like having to buy everything.
Do tell what items that you “need” to have. You don’t have to give a list. Just name one single item.
The problem here is that the game already does this, but players just don’t want to do things to get rewarded. Everyone has the opportunity to run Arah for tokens to trade for unique armors. Everyone has the opportunity to do Tequatl or the Great Wurm for unique weapon boxes. Everyone has the opportunity to do SAB Tribulation mode for unique colored holo weapons.
I disagree. And I am tired, oh so tired of reading about entitlement. Let’s find some synonyms for that.
Anyway, I will give you Arah. The dragon’s deep weapon sets do have a bit of prestige to them. Teqatl and SAB on the other hand, the former has got horrifically low drop rates and the latter is unavailable right now.
My point however, is just about regular loot. I’m not whining that I haven’t gotten a precursor drop, I just believe (a) there is too much junk, so much that Anet had to invent uses for some of it e.g. Ascended crafting and (b) there aren’t enough solid, consistent rewards. I agree that the difficult content should reward unique, prestigious items, but there is a massive gap between the basic stuff that can be earned, and the really nice things that we have to buy.
instead of buy orders of 10s and sell listings of 60s for ecto, we equilibrate it to 35/36. 10s if you’re looking to sell it and 60s if you’re looking to buy it is a pretty crummy proposition.
