Guild Wars 2

Hello,
I still have not found any official word on letting us use our runes stuck in WvW armor or sigils stuck in WvW weapons.

Obviously the Upgrade Extractor is not a solution, it was made for high level Agony Infusions.

Enter the Gold-Fed-Extract-o-Matic, a gem shop item that can remove Upgrade Components from gear but not Infusions.

It could cost 800 gems and then 1 gold per use. This is not cheap but would still be a solution that would make people sort of happy. (Silver-Fed-Extract-o-Matic for fewer gems even better if you wouldn’t mind)

Anet, please just admit you overlooked rune/sigil transfers from unsalvageable gear when you removed Transmutation Crystals and give us a way to do it, even if you have to put a gem and gold price on it.

I don’t want to believe that you just don’t care that so many of us have banks full of gear we can’t use.

This is causing me constant frustration every time I log in and look at my bank and I know I’m not alone.

I had to replace runes of strength over scholar on ascended set…the upgrade extractor just cant be used, and i think no1 is using it

The question is why doesn’t ANET just increase the cost of WvW armor and make it salvageable?
Anyone can give an explanation?

stemare.2578:

The question is why doesn’t ANET just increase the cost of WvW armor and make it salvageable?
Anyone can give an explanation?

The explanation is really quite simple. The economy in Gw2 is controlled by player wants and needs. If Anet released gear that costed x amount of gold and was salvagable, it would set a lowest price point for anything associated with salvaging that gear. Now the market isn’t based on player wants and needs, it’s based on a minimum price point set by Anet. Yeah, you can argue that “Well there’s not a guaranteed chance you’ll get XYZ from salvaging that item”, and while that is true on a basis of individuals, on a basis of the entire population, it’s not true.

This point could be applied to any exotic amor source, dungeons’ armor, crafted armor etc. but still they decided to make them salvagable.
Furthermore, the increased cost of WvW armor could cover the lower price of salvaged materials and the economy wouldn’t be damaged.

stemare.2578:

This point could be applied to any exotic amor source, dungeons’ armor, crafted armor etc. but still they decided to make them salvagable.
Furthermore, the increased cost of WvW armor could cover the lower price of salvaged materials and the economy wouldn’t be damaged.

Crafted gear always needs more mats to be put in it than you can salvage from it, so it isnt a problem.
Dungeon tokens are kinda limited per day and have a heavy DR on them, while karma and badges are not capped per day and dont have much DR.

Wanze.8410:

stemare.2578:

This point could be applied to any exotic amor source, dungeons’ armor, crafted armor etc. but still they decided to make them salvagable.
Furthermore, the increased cost of WvW armor could cover the lower price of salvaged materials and the economy wouldn’t be damaged.

Crafted gear always needs more mats to be put in it than you can salvage from it, so it isnt a problem.
Dungeon tokens are kinda limited per day and have a heavy DR on them, while karma and badges are not capped per day and dont have much DR.

How many badges do hardcore wvw players really get? it might not be “limited”, but there’s a realistic expectation of max income. If they only get 50 an hour, they can only get 1200 a day.
8 dungeons x 3 paths x 60 tokens = 1440 dungeon tokens per day. that gives 48 rare items or 8 exotic items. 48 rares gives 40.8 ectos.
1200 badges would give 9 rares (at the cost of 9g) or 10 exotics (at the cost of 8g). (side note: uhhhh, why are these so close? shouldn’t exotic cost like 5x as much as rare?). 10 exotics gives 12.5 ectos.
Badge items don’t come with sockets, so it’s purely the ectos that are in consideration. First of all, ecto price would need to go above 64s after tax (75s before tax) just to give any profit from badge items at all (because of the silver cost).
Let’s assume ectos got to 1g each (85s after tax). 85s x 1.25 × 1g = 1g6s25c per salvaged badge exotic – 80s = 26s25c profit. 48 × 0.85 × 1g = 40g80s per day of salvaged dungeon rares. 40g80s / 26s25c = 155.4 badge exotics you would have to salvage to match the same profit as dungeon rares = 18,651 badges per day = 777 badges per hour (for 24 hours).
If ectos got to 2g each, that number would be 154 badges per hour (for 24 hours).
Now, we have two questions: when will ectos go above 2g? and how many badges can wvw players actually get in an hour?
theoretical tip: those 18,651 badges got this theoretical person 40g80s profit (if ectos were 1g). If they had bought and sold flame rams instead, they would of made ~62g.
At anything close to current prices, the point is moot, as buying badge exotics to salvage into ecto is a net loss, no matter how many badges you have.

You know… from a economical perspective, they might want to add this. It would add another upper-cap to the ecto price. Ecto prices spiraling out of control? suddenly wvw players can turn badges into ectos for a profit and they bring the price back down to below 75s.

No no no no no, MODS, NO! Did you just read the first 3 sentences of the post like usual ?

This thread isn’t about Black Lion Trading Co for kitten’s sake.

It’s about a bank full of things I can’t use.

Thank you for more disappointment.

KICKER.3874:

No no no no no, MODS, NO! Did you just read the first 3 sentences of the post like usual ?

This thread isn’t about Black Lion Trading Co for kitten’s sake.

It’s about a bank full of things I can’t use.

Thank you for more disappointment.

right click → destroy

it feels bad but its a good thing those runes are effectively deleted from the game’s supply. youre just more attached to your suboptimal armor than you are to having an empty bank slot. call it a loss and move on.

AlliedKhajiit.2794:

stemare.2578:

The question is why doesn’t ANET just increase the cost of WvW armor and make it salvageable?
Anyone can give an explanation?

The explanation is really quite simple. The economy in Gw2 is controlled by player wants and needs. If Anet released gear that costed x amount of gold and was salvagable, it would set a lowest price point for anything associated with salvaging that gear. Now the market isn’t based on player wants and needs, it’s based on a minimum price point set by Anet. Yeah, you can argue that “Well there’s not a guaranteed chance you’ll get XYZ from salvaging that item”, and while that is true on a basis of individuals, on a basis of the entire population, it’s not true.

They could have just set those types of armor salvage for a fraction of the associated currency instead of normal material, so but karma stuff for karma and badge for badge, problem of economy and salvageable options solved.

Those salvaged armor pieces dont have to drop anything at all, except the sigil/rune and many people would be happy already.

All that is pure speculation. The RNG factor would make the salvage mats a drop in the bucket considering the velocity of those markets.

Karma and badge armor and badge weapons have been shown in other threads to be a loss when salvaged theoretically.

Both of these alt currencies should be on the same footing as dungeon armor with regards to salvaging.

Others say “but what about all those badges people have stockpiled?” Big deal. People would be stockpiling dungeon badges if you couldn’t salvage that armor too…

KICKER.3874:

No no no no no, MODS, NO! Did you just read the first 3 sentences of the post like usual ?

This thread isn’t about Black Lion Trading Co for kitten’s sake.

It’s about a bank full of things I can’t use.

Thank you for more disappointment.

I realize what you are wanting and that you have honest intentions, but items will always be used every possible way they are able to be used. Someone will take this perma upgrade extractor, buy karma armor, and use it just to get the expensive rune out of the armor. that is the reason badge and karma items are not salvageable. it’s not so you can’t remove the socket you put in; it’s to protect the free socket that’s already in there.
I imagine they extended that to badges to protect the siege supply. If everyone were turning badges into ectos, then there would be far less siege blueprints in the game.

Mystic.5934:

KICKER.3874:

No no no no no, MODS, NO! Did you just read the first 3 sentences of the post like usual ?

This thread isn’t about Black Lion Trading Co for kitten’s sake.

It’s about a bank full of things I can’t use.

Thank you for more disappointment.

I realize what you are wanting and that you have honest intentions, but items will always be used every possible way they are able to be used. Someone will take this perma upgrade extractor, buy karma armor, and use it just to get the expensive rune out of the armor. that is the reason badge and karma items are not salvageable. it’s not so you can’t remove the socket you put in; it’s to protect the free socket that’s already in there.
I imagine they extended that to badges to protect the siege supply. If everyone were turning badges into ectos, then there would be far less siege blueprints in the game.

siege is also sold for silver at that vendor
there wouldnt be less siege per se, itd just be at vendor price instead of below

Mystic.5934:

I realize what you are wanting and that you have honest intentions, but items will always be used every possible way they are able to be used. Someone will take this perma upgrade extractor, buy karma armor, and use it just to get the expensive rune out of the armor. that is the reason badge and karma items are not salvageable. it’s not so you can’t remove the socket you put in; it’s to protect the free socket that’s already in there.
I imagine they extended that to badges to protect the siege supply. If everyone were turning badges into ectos, then there would be far less siege blueprints in the game.

I imagine that anything extracted with a gemstore item would be account bound. This would minimize the effect you have stated. With that consideration, the worst I can see is Runes of Strength would be everywhere as they could easily be bought from the NPC in Southsun Cove. The price on the trading post would plummet to about 3 to 5g per rune, which would be the cost of buying an exotic with the strength rune and extracting it. Demand for fall considerably because people that want it would just farm a set for themselves. On the upside, Southsun would be would have a massive boon and the price of karka shells would skyrocket.

All things considered, it would probably balance itself out.

It would have been better design, in my opinion, if they had made all runes/sigils craftable and NEVER salvageable.

This would have enabled rune/sigil crafting to be a legitimate source of player income.

mtpelion.4562:

It would have been better design, in my opinion, if they had made all runes/sigils craftable and NEVER salvageable.

This would have enabled rune/sigil crafting to be a legitimate source of player income.

It doesn’t really work that way though with this type of virtual economy.

Scenario: All runes and sigils are able to be crafted with various mats.

in PvE/PvP there are “meta runes/sigils” made with specific mats assigned to each of those upgrades.

The prices would balance with the component mats increasing or decreasing in price based on changes in meta sending ripples out through other markets.. The crafting market is not where craftable runes would make people gold like everything else in this game its the mats.

Just out of curiosity, a question to those that would like to be able to salvage all their superior runes and sigils from all gear:

What kind of mat sink would you suggest for sup runes and sigils instead?

Wanze.8410:

Just out of curiosity, a question to those that would like to be able to salvage all their superior runes and sigils from all gear:

What kind of mat sink would you suggest for sup runes and sigils instead?

Isn’t the gem price and gold price per use enough?

As it stands, there are very few things veteran players who play a lot would spend gems on. At the start of the game I got a lot of gems for real money, probably more than the average player, but getting close to 5k hours of play, not anymore.

If I need a second set of strength runes I will just wait and gather gold for a while and just be frustrated they won’t let me use the ones I already have on another character I`m not playing anymore.

Then I will destroy the old armor hating Anet for making do that.

The only way they’re ever getting any more gems for real money from me at this point is if they show respect to veteran players by removing big frustrations like this. (or if they finally add official GvG to the game, but that’s another thread).

What Wanze meant:
currently, if you want to replace runes of strength with something else in your ascended armor set, you put the new runes over runes of strength and runes of strength are destroyed.
if you were able to recover them, they would never get destroyed and would just pile up. If they were TPable, the TP would begin to overflow with them. They have a supply and a demand, except after they are demanded, then those get added back as supply. circles like that are bad. Eventually the price would go down to the point where it’s not worth it to use this cheaper upgrade extractor = 1g17s65c. Except for sigils and runes we can’t get anymore, that 1g17s65c would effectively be a cap on every socket’s price.
So Wanze was asking: if sockets aren’t destroyed by you (when you replace it with another socket), then how do superior runes leave the game?
Personally, I think that making all extracted sockets account-bound is a partial solution to that. They don’t leave the game, but they do leave the economy. Players will likely hold onto them to put into something else, so demand will be less. I would expect you would see a decrease in expensive sockets prices, but I doubt enough people are hoarder enough to save them when they get to the 1g price, so they’d destroy them and that’s how they can leave the game

Why do they have to leave the game? There is 6g leaving the game when I extract them, there is the gem price to get the item in the first place. There is TP tax when they change owners. People will always make new alts or change build, there are always the new players.

Putting such a high gold cost on testing builds is what’s keeping the meta stale and boring. People would be more willing to try new things if it didn’t mean losing a huge amount of gold every time.

KICKER.3874:

Why do they have to leave the game? There is 6g leaving the game when I extract them, there is the gem price to get the item in the first place. There is TP tax when they change owners. People will always make new alts or change build, there are always the new players.

Putting such a high gold cost on testing builds is what’s keeping the meta stale and boring. People would be more willing to try new things if it didn’t mean losing a huge amount of gold every time.

Because if they dont leave the game somehow, the prices of the more expensive runes will inevitably get cheaper. The first problem will be, when all prices fall below the gold extraction price of the device.
People who bought it, will feel cheated and will demand from Anet to lower the gold cost per extraction.
Most superior upgrades already hover around vendor value, which is bad. We dont need another faucet for the ones that arent yet.

it’s not just gold that needs sinks, it’s items as well. Every time you equip an exotic, it effectively leaves the game, because the one place it’s eventually going is the salvage kit or mystic forge. If you had a way to un-bind that item, it would re-enter circulation and never leave. It would lead to inflation of that item (meaning there would be huge amounts of that item and it would lose all value as a result)
same happens to runes if you were able to remove them cheaply.
Now… BLSK used to be able to remove them. But I wouldn’t exactly call it cheap. The price of recovery was ~2g + that item. Often the item was worth more than the socket, so the total cost was not that far off from the current upgrade extractor, except now you’re paying when you want to extract instead of when you first buy the item.

Wanze.8410:

KICKER.3874:

Why do they have to leave the game? There is 6g leaving the game when I extract them, there is the gem price to get the item in the first place. There is TP tax when they change owners. People will always make new alts or change build, there are always the new players.

Putting such a high gold cost on testing builds is what’s keeping the meta stale and boring. People would be more willing to try new things if it didn’t mean losing a huge amount of gold every time.

Because if they dont leave the game somehow, the prices of the more expensive runes will inevitably get cheaper. The first problem will be, when all prices fall below the gold extraction price of the device.
People who bought it, will feel cheated and will demand from Anet to lower the gold cost per extraction.
Most superior upgrades already hover around vendor value, which is bad. We dont need another faucet for the ones that arent yet.

All these are good points but you can mitigate them simply by restricting it to stripping exotic and lower armor. Leave ascended/legendary as the rune/sigil sink.

Mystic.5934:

Now… BLSK used to be able to remove them.

What? BLSK doesn’t remove superior runes/sigils anymore? When did that happen?

eithinan.9841:

Wanze.8410:

KICKER.3874:

Why do they have to leave the game? There is 6g leaving the game when I extract them, there is the gem price to get the item in the first place. There is TP tax when they change owners. People will always make new alts or change build, there are always the new players.

Putting such a high gold cost on testing builds is what’s keeping the meta stale and boring. People would be more willing to try new things if it didn’t mean losing a huge amount of gold every time.

Because if they dont leave the game somehow, the prices of the more expensive runes will inevitably get cheaper. The first problem will be, when all prices fall below the gold extraction price of the device.
People who bought it, will feel cheated and will demand from Anet to lower the gold cost per extraction.
Most superior upgrades already hover around vendor value, which is bad. We dont need another faucet for the ones that arent yet.

All these are good points but you can mitigate them simply by restricting it to stripping exotic and lower armor. Leave ascended/legendary as the rune/sigil sink.

Mitigation wont negate my points.

Wanze.8410:

eithinan.9841:

Wanze.8410:

KICKER.3874:

Why do they have to leave the game? There is 6g leaving the game when I extract them, there is the gem price to get the item in the first place. There is TP tax when they change owners. People will always make new alts or change build, there are always the new players.

Putting such a high gold cost on testing builds is what’s keeping the meta stale and boring. People would be more willing to try new things if it didn’t mean losing a huge amount of gold every time.

Because if they dont leave the game somehow, the prices of the more expensive runes will inevitably get cheaper. The first problem will be, when all prices fall below the gold extraction price of the device.
People who bought it, will feel cheated and will demand from Anet to lower the gold cost per extraction.
Most superior upgrades already hover around vendor value, which is bad. We dont need another faucet for the ones that arent yet.

All these are good points but you can mitigate them simply by restricting it to stripping exotic and lower armor. Leave ascended/legendary as the rune/sigil sink.

Mitigation wont negate my points.

plus pink armor isnt a viable sink

Why do they have to leave the game? There is 6g leaving the game when I extract them, there is the gem price to get the item in the first place. There is TP tax when they change owners. People will always make new alts or change build, there are always the new players.

Putting such a high gold cost on testing builds is what’s keeping the meta stale and boring. People would be more willing to try new things if it didn’t mean losing a huge amount of gold every time.

Because if they dont leave the game somehow, the prices of the more expensive runes will inevitably get cheaper. The first problem will be, when all prices fall below the gold extraction price of the device.
People who bought it, will feel cheated and will demand from Anet to lower the gold cost per extraction.
Most superior upgrades already hover around vendor value, which is bad. We dont need another faucet for the ones that arent yet.

All these are good points but you can mitigate them simply by restricting it to stripping exotic and lower armor. Leave ascended/legendary as the rune/sigil sink.

Mitigation wont negate my points.

No reason to negate your points and they are correct so I couldn’t if I tried. Anet is playing a balancing game with the economy and have shown in the past they are willing to make course corrections on things to bring balance.

I think the people have spoken on this and really need it to happen to continue experiencing the game in a pleasurable manner.

I have polled myself and a few others who have posted on this forum about it and the consensus outside a few statistical irregularities support everything I’m saying.

Putting such a high gold cost on testing builds is what’s keeping the meta stale and boring. People would be more willing to try new things if it didn’t mean losing a huge amount of gold every time.

I couldn’t agree more.

plus pink armor isnt a viable sink

This is an obvious straw man, you can dye your armor to be almost any color you want.

It would have been better design, in my opinion, if they had made all runes/sigils craftable and NEVER salvageable.

This would have been cool I agree.

Note: trying a new post format.Trololo

eithinan.9841:

Note: trying a new post format.Trololo

Didnt read your post, played some Memory instead.

eithinan.9841:

This is an obvious straw man, you can dye your armor to be almost any color you want.

Note: trying a new post format.Trololo

cant tell if srs

insanemaniac.2456:

eithinan.9841:

This is an obvious straw man, you can dye your armor to be almost any color you want.

Note: trying a new post format.Trololo

cant tell if srs

Really? I think I was quite clear on that point.