Guild Wars 2

I wonder if taking real money is for items with an undisclosed drop rate is considered legal in the State of California. Its one thing to have impossible odds when one is paying a subscription, but when real life money is used at the trading post to buy keys for chest and dye packs that include worthless crap most of the time is gambling.

I really think ArenaNet should put a stop to this practice until they are sure they are not violating state law.

If it is not illegal, I’d like to think ArenaNet would have a moral obligation to the gaming community to not rip of thousands of people.

You’re a bit late to the discussion on this one. Extensively discussed previously.

Edit: Link added
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Gem-store-gambling/first#post1702760

simple answer: there’s absolutely no way for you to make money from it, therefor it’s not gambling.

I would like to see if State Law agrees that it is not gambling when you are exchanging money for items.

I mean, carnivals do the same thing, but they are regulated. They get fined if they stack the odds so it is virtually impossible for people to win.

This post is not about if “people are too stupid to keep dumping money” its about is it morally right? Is it even legal?

Doubt they’d be doing it if it was illegal :P Pretty sure they get around it by selling gems, not the items themselves. Sort of like Pakitteno in Japan.

“Directly gambling on pakitteno is illegal in Japan. Balls won cannot be exchanged directly for money in the parlor. The balls are exchanged for tokens or prizes, which are then taken outside and exchanged for cash at a place nominally separate from the parlor.”

Well not completely like that since you don’t exchange anything back for cash, but still a work around.

(Bah, forums filter pakitteno)

I’m now imagining a machine that uses kittens instead of balls.

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Doubt they’d be doing it if it was illegal :P Pretty sure they get around it by selling gems, not the items themselves. Sort of like Pakitteno in Japan.

“Directly gambling on pakitteno is illegal in Japan. Balls won cannot be exchanged directly for money in the parlor. The balls are exchanged for tokens or prizes, which are then taken outside and exchanged for cash at a place nominally separate from the parlor.”

Well not completely like that since you don’t exchange anything back for cash, but still a work around.

(Bah, forums filter pakitteno)

For the longest time I was trying to figure out what the hell pakitteno was….

Then noticed the kitten. Pachlnko. Aaaaah….

/sigh

These armchair lawyers really need to stop posting this kinda stuff, esp. when they have no experience in law.

For Federal Lottery Laws, a lottery is a promotion that has three elements:
1) Prizes
2) Winners Chosen by Chance
3) Consideration

To avoid being classified as an illegal lottery, sweepstakes must ensure that at least one of these elements is missing. Because prizes and luck are central to sweepstakes where the winners are drawn at random, legitimate promotions can never have “consideration”.

Definition of “consideration”: In sweepstakes terms, consideration is simply payment for a prize. Generally, sweepstakes that award prizes by chance are not allowed to have an element of consideration. Consideration doesn’t have to be money; it can be anything that can profit the sponsor. For example, a company cannot require that entrants purchase a product to participate in sweepstakes (or, if they do, they must provide an alternate method of entry). You’ll hear the following a lot in the US: “No purchase necessary”

So purchasing Black Lion Chest Keys from the Gem Store requires the use of “Gems”. Gems can be either purchased via real money, or traded for with in game currency (i.e. Copper, Silver, and/or Gold).

Also, a few more things. Gems and all items either purchase or won from chests have no value, and are still property of NCSoft. You’re basically paying for the use of Gems and all items. Please refer to the User Agreement, section 4. “ACCOUNT AND PAYMENTS TO NCSOFT”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

edit – corrected a few typos

^ this. Plus it cant be ‘gambling’…as you ALWAYS WIN. You never open a chest with nothing in it. Sure it may not be what you want, but you are getting something for your money.

Hernia.1986:

^ this. Plus it cant be ‘gambling’…as you ALWAYS WIN. You never open a chest with nothing in it. Sure it may not be what you want, but you are getting something for your money.

Yes you always win something, but that alone doesn’t make it legal. It’s the randomness that allows a sweepstakes or lottery to be legal. But in the case of RNG and gambling, we own nothing in this game. All digital items are property of NCSoft, and we’re merely paying for the right to play with them. Heck, if I paid $100 for Gems, they can give it to me, but I have no legal rights to them. It’s a virtual currency that has no value, and NCSoft has the right to delete them from my account without refund, as per the User Agreement.

I see that Penguin. Thank you for the posting. However, I think it is MORALLY BANKRUPT to accept money from people as a gamble for a rare item that has an undisclosed drop rate.

Post the drop rates for these items and let the consumer make an informed decision. if the odds are 1:1000, why not tell us?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Hernia.1986:

^ this. Plus it cant be ‘gambling’…as you ALWAYS WIN. You never open a chest with nothing in it. Sure it may not be what you want, but you are getting something for your money.

Yes you always win something, but that alone doesn’t make it legal. It’s the randomness that allows a sweepstakes or lottery to be legal. But in the case of RNG and gambling, we own nothing in this game. All digital items are property of NCSoft, and we’re merely paying for the right to play with them. Heck, if I paid $100 for Gems, they can give it to me, but I have no legal rights to them. It’s a virtual currency that has no value, and NCSoft has the right to delete them from my account without refund, as per the User Agreement.

Didn’t Blizzard have similar issue? About vitural rights? It was probably unrelated but I remember a lawsuit.

Would this topic have been made if OP got 2 tickets on first 10 chests?