Guild Wars 2

This case was not that much of an “exploit” as an unintended market rebalance that happened suddenly and some players were able to profit of.

Note it wasn’t a loop generating value out of nothing but converting finite resources into other finite resources. The market found new balance where repeating the loop made only a small (around 10%) profit margin. If more people knew this method the prices would move further, past the equilibrium, to a point where this loop would be causing an actual loss.

Example equilibrium – 0% net profit from the loop:

Mithril Ore = 85c
Snowflake = 28s
Ecto = 23s

(assuming return rate of 90 ectos per 100 salvages with Master’s kit)

We were pretty close to these prices.

Would it be called an exploit then at 0% margin? And at negative?

Yawg.1294:

This case was not that much of an “exploit” as an unintended market rebalance that happened suddenly and some players were able to profit of.

Everyone can keep going round and round as to whether or not this was or wasn’t an exploit, but a representative from ArenaNet said that it WAS an exploit. So, guess what?

It’s an exploit. No further debate necessary on “how bad” of an exploit it was. It was an exploit…..plain and simple.

The question I have is whether or not they will DO anything about it other than disabling the recipe, which they’ve already done.

Thanks for the bans Arenanet, I’m glad you are taking a hard stance on exploiters.

Good job!

Would it be called an exploit then at 0% margin? And at negative?

Yes. The exploit was not the market rebalancing/prices but the fact that recipe used 1 jewel instead of 3, which allowed to keep it for further crafting 80% of the time at 61c/salvage. All other recipes use 3+ jewels, and all jewelcrafters know this.

Rogacz.9865:

Would it be called an exploit then at 0% margin? And at negative?

Yes. The exploit was not the market rebalancing/prices but the fact that recipe used 1 jewel instead of 3, which allowed to keep it for further crafting 80% of the time at 61c/salvage. All other recipes use 3+ jewels, and all jewelcrafters know this.

So it’s an exploit because someone at ANet didn’t have the brain to notice it was only using 1 jewel instead of 3? Don’t they do any testing, why are people being punished if it was ANet they messed up? I sure like the responsibility being shrugged off onto the player base (again) like previous mess ups by ANet (ie t3 cultural skins being on karama vendors since launch and only changed a couple weeks ago). Kind of getting annoyed with the poor management and handling of this game :\

Protoavis.9107:

Rogacz.9865:

Would it be called an exploit then at 0% margin? And at negative?

Yes. The exploit was not the market rebalancing/prices but the fact that recipe used 1 jewel instead of 3, which allowed to keep it for further crafting 80% of the time at 61c/salvage. All other recipes use 3+ jewels, and all jewelcrafters know this.

So it’s an exploit because someone at ANet didn’t have the brain to notice it was only using 1 jewel instead of 3? Don’t they do any testing, why are people being punished if it was ANet they messed up? I sure like the responsibility being shrugged off onto the player base (again) like previous mess ups by ANet (ie t3 cultural skins being on karama vendors since launch and only changed a couple weeks ago). Kind of getting annoyed with the poor management and handling of this game :\

By your thinking, all exploits in the game are Arenanets fault, and as a result, no one should get banned. That’s what I’m getting at.

Go find a game out there that has no bugs.

Vol.5241:

Protoavis.9107:

Rogacz.9865:

Would it be called an exploit then at 0% margin? And at negative?

Yes. The exploit was not the market rebalancing/prices but the fact that recipe used 1 jewel instead of 3, which allowed to keep it for further crafting 80% of the time at 61c/salvage. All other recipes use 3+ jewels, and all jewelcrafters know this.

So it’s an exploit because someone at ANet didn’t have the brain to notice it was only using 1 jewel instead of 3? Don’t they do any testing, why are people being punished if it was ANet they messed up? I sure like the responsibility being shrugged off onto the player base (again) like previous mess ups by ANet (ie t3 cultural skins being on karama vendors since launch and only changed a couple weeks ago). Kind of getting annoyed with the poor management and handling of this game :\

By your thinking, all exploits in the game are Arenanets fault, and as a result, no one should get banned. That’s what I’m getting at.

Go find a game out there that has no bugs.

Given no third party software is required (definite exploit and given you still see bots teleporting from one mob to another, it’s not like they’re monitor impossible character movements) and performing the exact same action (salvaging and getting ecto’s and recycling the other returned mats) with any other recipe is ok, logic says the issue is the recipe not being thought out or tested before being handed out. Nothing unusual had to be done in this situation, salvaging is a very common thing, it’s not something fairly obscure like being able to teleport through an invisible wall to skip half a dungeon.

It’s obvious testing hadn’t be done before this hit customers and rather than taking responsibility they seem to be placing it anyone else (which is what they seem to be doing every time they mess up) to save face which isn’t a reputation they’ll be able to recover from if these things keep happening.

Saw this on reddit and it made me laugh :P

Vol.5241:

Protoavis.9107:

Rogacz.9865:

Would it be called an exploit then at 0% margin? And at negative?

Yes. The exploit was not the market rebalancing/prices but the fact that recipe used 1 jewel instead of 3, which allowed to keep it for further crafting 80% of the time at 61c/salvage. All other recipes use 3+ jewels, and all jewelcrafters know this.

So it’s an exploit because someone at ANet didn’t have the brain to notice it was only using 1 jewel instead of 3? Don’t they do any testing, why are people being punished if it was ANet they messed up? I sure like the responsibility being shrugged off onto the player base (again) like previous mess ups by ANet (ie t3 cultural skins being on karama vendors since launch and only changed a couple weeks ago). Kind of getting annoyed with the poor management and handling of this game :\

By your thinking, all exploits in the game are Arenanets fault, and as a result, no one should get banned. That’s what I’m getting at.

Go find a game out there that has no bugs.

It absolutely wasn’t a bug. Whoever made the recipes simply didn’t think forward about their salvageable value.

ArenaNet could have taken a different direction with this specific exploit. Their original thought was to provide the playerbase with a cool Wintersday themed item. The problem occurred when players realized they could salvage more ecto out of the item than what they put in. ArenaNet could have just disabled salvaging of that current item.

It would have allowed players to continue making them and selling them, but they couldn’t be salvaged. There are all kinds of items in the game that can’t be salvaged.

On one hand you can’t blame players using this exploit when they have free globs offered in front of them when half of the end game gear such as legendary and ascended requires 250 of them each.

On the other, You can’t blame arena.net for trying to defend the Trading post either.
But if they cared that much about the TP you would think they would of done something about the lodestone issue by now.

Mod didn’t close this thread? Should at least closed it if they knew it was a bannable offense. Freaking Anet.

anything that financially benefits the player, not arena, is an exploit and will get you banned. so don’t you dare find an economic exploit that would make you rich, they will ban you for it. if you discover a glitch, or something else that can be exploited because of the dev’s lack of polishing the details, just leave it alone and pretend you didn’t find it. they don’t like honesty. dont tell them they did a bad job at something, they’ll just shut you up by suspending you or ban you.

ofcourse when it comes to bugs and glitchess that mess up your dungeon run and cause the player financial discomfort, thats okay tho. they will take their time with that.

a fine example is you gotta click accept to get the reward from a dungeon, so if you get disconnected before you click accept then go back in when you reconnect, you dont get the reward or the tokens…wonderfull, isnt it? will that be fixed? no. thats working as intended.

or if you get disconnected in FOTM, when you reconnect and go in, you cant go into the same zone,instance,place or whatever they call it, to re-join back with your group where you got disconnected, where you leftoff. so if you get dc’d at last fotm, before last boss, when you reconnect, you gotta do the whole thing again from start. will that be fixed? no.

Anet handled this pretty poorly.. I feel sorry for you guys that got banned for simply making money.

And everyone that is happy about the bans sounds like they are clearly jealous of not being able to make money in game

atrossity.6437:

Anet handled this pretty poorly.. I feel sorry for you guys that got banned for simply making money.

They were exploiting to make money.

its not an exploit its a mistake by the developers, instead fixing it they let it there for 4 days. like the image Power.2957 posted… the image says it all.

Having heard about how this actually worked and how some people exploited it (300+ ecto’s an hour!) I have to agree, its an exploit.

HOWEVER I have also heard of people who made 5G from it being banned. Surely there needs to some level of leniency…

morphemass.2850:

Having heard about how this actually worked and how some people exploited it (300+ ecto’s an hour!) I have to agree, its an exploit.

HOWEVER I have also heard of people who made 5G from it being banned. Surely there needs to some level of leniency…

No one got perma banned for making 5g.
Tbh im all against exploiters, but this one was to close to the bone to be perma banning people. Its almost like people have to now walk around and think “if I make money instead of buying it with gems is it an exploit?”

ive seen how people tried to liken those that crafted and salavaged this were theives. Didnt realise they went around in hoods stealing the base mats to craft this stuff. Most Anet should have done was warned the people and rebalanced their gold instead. To me the perm bans prove just how desperate Anet is to stop people making gold.

Really? I know people who made a couple, LOST money, and got banned. Regina’s post in that other thread is class A büllshït.

All of this could have been avoided by simply testing content thoroughly before release. I find it difficult to understand how this error went unnoticed previous to launch.
Paying customers are not beta testers.
The community is helping to enable irresponsible game development by supporting this blatant deflection.
Exploiting Arenanets blunder is also irresponsible and damages the community.
No-one would have been banned and this thread would not exist if all parties involved had done their due diligence.

Just one guys opinion..

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Mod didn’t close this thread? Should at least closed it if they knew it was a bannable offense. Freaking Anet.

I’m inclined to agree. What the heck happened there?

for me an exploit is where if you do it even once ya question if its right or not. The number of times you do it shouldnt change weather you think its wrong.

Wheels.8451:

All of this could have been avoided by simply testing content thoroughly before release. I find it difficult to understand how this error went unnoticed previous to launch.
Paying customers are not beta testers.
The community is helping to enable irresponsible game development by supporting this blatant deflection.
Exploiting Arenanets blunder is also irresponsible and damages the community.
No-one would have been banned and this thread would not exist if all parties involved had done their due diligence.

Just one guys opinion..

Jesus, Wheels….
I wish EVERYONE would simply quote what you wrote…
Maybe if they saw this over and over it may finally sink in…. Then again, maybe it wouldn’t sink in.. Maybe they’ll never learn and this game will die off like so many other very promising but very mismanaged games…. Let’s hope that’s not the case, they wake up and start learning how to run a game (especially when it comes to taking responsibility for not only THOROUGHLY testing things BEFORE release, but also in how a market should be run)

Wheels.8451:

All of this could have been avoided by simply testing content thoroughly before release. I find it difficult to understand how this error went unnoticed previous to launch.
Paying customers are not beta testers.
The community is helping to enable irresponsible game development by supporting this blatant deflection.
Exploiting Arenanets blunder is also irresponsible and damages the community.
No-one would have been banned and this thread would not exist if all parties involved had done their due diligence.

Just one guys opinion..

Most people playing this game ain’t paying customers, as in we do not pay a monthly fee. You bought the game once, thats it.

Fook.3914:

its not an exploit its a mistake by the developers

Exploiting a mistake by the developer is the very notion of a exploit.

If not by mistake of the developer, there wouldnt be anything to exploit.

The Blue Ace.2850:

On one hand you can’t blame players using this exploit when they have free globs offered in front of them when half of the end game gear such as legendary and ascended requires 250 of them each.

On the other, You can’t blame arena.net for trying to defend the Trading post either.
But if they cared that much about the TP you would think they would of done something about the lodestone issue by now.

“You can’t blame the robber for robbing that house, I mean, it takes so long to work for such nice things.”

Zanaraxtarus.3954:

Wheels.8451:

All of this could have been avoided by simply testing content thoroughly before release. I find it difficult to understand how this error went unnoticed previous to launch.
Paying customers are not beta testers.
The community is helping to enable irresponsible game development by supporting this blatant deflection.
Exploiting Arenanets blunder is also irresponsible and damages the community.
No-one would have been banned and this thread would not exist if all parties involved had done their due diligence.

Just one guys opinion..

Jesus, Wheels….
I wish EVERYONE would simply quote what you wrote…
Maybe if they saw this over and over it may finally sink in…. Then again, maybe it wouldn’t sink in.. Maybe they’ll never learn and this game will die off like so many other very promising but very mismanaged games…. Let’s hope that’s not the case, they wake up and start learning how to run a game (especially when it comes to taking responsibility for not only THOROUGHLY testing things BEFORE release, but also in how a market should be run)

No, sorry. If the developers make a mistake, that’s something they should be called out on.

If the mistake results in an exploit, that’s something they should be called out on.

If the mistake results in an exploit, YOU DO NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE KITTENING EXPLOIT. PERIOD.

You know what an exploit is. Everyone knows what an exploit is. You’re all acting like you’re idiots who can’t tell the difference between right and wrong.

Like Lance Armstrong, you don’t give a kitten that you were cheating, you only care that you were CAUGHT cheating.

Tarang.7562:

Most people playing this game ain’t paying customers, as in we do not pay a monthly fee. You bought the game once, thats it.

The money used to purchase the game isn’t imaginary because I don’t pay a sub. Many people, including myself, are supporting development via gem store purchases. We are paying customers.

RvLeshrac.2673:

No, sorry. If the developers make a mistake, that’s something they should be called out on.

If the mistake results in an exploit, that’s something they should be called out on.

If the mistake results in an exploit, YOU DO NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE KITTENING EXPLOIT. PERIOD.

You know what an exploit is. Everyone knows what an exploit is. You’re all acting like you’re idiots who can’t tell the difference between right and wrong.

Like Lance Armstrong, you don’t give a kitten that you were cheating, you only care that you were CAUGHT cheating.

You seem angry.. please don’t let that stop you from fully reading posts you want to quote in the future. I think you’ll find we are actually in agreement. If not, perhaps you could point out the portion you disagree with.

RvLeshrac.2673:

The Blue Ace.2850:

On one hand you can’t blame players using this exploit when they have free globs offered in front of them when half of the end game gear such as legendary and ascended requires 250 of them each.

On the other, You can’t blame arena.net for trying to defend the Trading post either.
But if they cared that much about the TP you would think they would of done something about the lodestone issue by now.

“You can’t blame the robber for robbing that house, I mean, it takes so long to work for such nice things.”

Hackers break into houses.

Bots are in the back garden stealing from your green house.

And Exploiters pick stuff up on display in the front garden while the police officer waits behind a bush.

:)

They pick up stuff in the front garden which the police unintentionally placed there, but where it can be found. Some people asked the police “Hey! Can I take this?” (And some just picked and picked and picked..) They never received an answer until the police – that had known the issue with the stuff laying around that they didn’t remove immediately when they were asked by the people if it is safe to pick them up – decided “Oh, bad bad bad exploiters. We have to arrest them and never let them out.”
^^

Navi.7142:

They pick up stuff in the front garden which the police unintentionally placed there, but where it can be found. Some people asked the police “Hey! Can I take this?” (And some just picked and picked and picked..) They never received an answer until the police – that had known the issue with the stuff laying around that they didn’t remove immediately when they were asked by the people if it is safe to pick them up – decided “Oh, bad bad bad exploiters. We have to arrest them and never let them out.”
^^

The police didn’t think it was necessary to respond to an idiotic question asking if it was OK to steal someone else’s kitten.

Navi.7142:

They pick up stuff in the front garden which the police unintentionally placed there, but where it can be found. Some people asked the police “Hey! Can I take this?” (And some just picked and picked and picked..) They never received an answer until the police – that had known the issue with the stuff laying around that they didn’t remove immediately when they were asked by the people if it is safe to pick them up – decided “Oh, bad bad bad exploiters. We have to arrest them and never let them out.”
^^

Doesn’t matter who put it there, it is still stealing.