Guild Wars 2

Dear Anet,
I love everything about the TP. This is coming from someone who uses it a lot, and no, I don’t turn gems into gold. I could list off everything I love about the TP, from the fees (yes, some players are from GW and know why we have fees), to the amount of fun it can be if I want to play Tycoon (which I love to), to how optional it is for my friends who don’t like to play Tycoon. But that list would be enormous, so let me instead list things I don’t like:
1: The text when the game’s UI is set to small.
2. Flippers

So I just have two wishes:
1. Fix the font size.
2. Don’t become blinded with all the mud-slinging that goes on in this section.

Sincerely,
Toro

And because flippers are actualy good for the game’s economy they’re not going anywhere.
You’ll just have to get used to them.

How are flippers good for the economy again?

Flippers have little value. Unless of course, one likes having lower purchasing power. In fact, their actions probably remove more gold from the economy than any other gold sink has.

Flippers bring the market closer to equillibrium.

They make WTB higher and WTS lower.

Toroxus.9256:

How are flippers good for the economy again?

Gold sink. Each sale they make removes 15% of the monetary cost for the item. We all know this game has horrible gold sinks, but this is one that works and is carrying to bare economy we have.

Well, I never said to remove Flippers, notice in my post it wasn’t my wish. But from my point of view, flippers damage the economy by raising prices.

Flipping is always with risk. Especially if you are new to it.

Toroxus.9256:

Well, I never said to remove Flippers, notice in my post it wasn’t my wish. But from my point of view, flippers damage the economy by raising prices.

I’m not sure that “flippers raise prices” is an incontrovertible fact, but regardless, higher prices mean you can sell the stuff you find for more gold, so why is that a bad thing?

Pandemoniac.4739:

Toroxus.9256:

Well, I never said to remove Flippers, notice in my post it wasn’t my wish. But from my point of view, flippers damage the economy by raising prices.

I’m not sure that “flippers raise prices” is an incontrovertible fact, but regardless, higher prices mean you can sell the stuff you find for more gold, so why is that a bad thing?

For the same reason higher prices were so bad in Guild Wars 1: Inflation.

Flippers are the best gold sink in the game,each time they flip 15% go in gold sink

Toroxus.9256:

Pandemoniac.4739:

I’m not sure that “flippers raise prices” is an incontrovertible fact, but regardless, higher prices mean you can sell the stuff you find for more gold, so why is that a bad thing?

For the same reason higher prices were so bad in Guild Wars 1: Inflation.

Sooo can we make equating a price increase with inflation a corollary to Godwin’s Law for this forum?

Flippers don’t increase the gold supply.

the TP interface could use a redesign in my opinion. aside from the fonts issue, there really is no reason for almost everything else to be so “touch friendly”

reducing the item box even in half would make for a much better list and would allow twice as many items without the need for scrolling

Toroxus.9256:

Dear Anet,
I love everything about the TP. This is coming from someone who uses it a lot, and no, I don’t turn gems into gold. I could list off everything I love about the TP, from the fees (yes, some players are from GW and know why we have fees), to the amount of fun it can be if I want to play Tycoon (which I love to), to how optional it is for my friends who don’t like to play Tycoon. But that list would be enormous, so let me instead list things I don’t like:
1: The text when the game’s UI is set to small.
2. Flippers

So I just have two wishes:
1. Fix the font size.
2. Don’t become blinded with all the mud-slinging that goes on in this section.

Sincerely,
Toro

So what is the difference of flipping an item and playing tycoon? What does a tycoon actually do on the TP?

Wanze.8410:

So what is the difference of flipping an item and playing tycoon? What does a tycoon actually do on the TP?

I spend maybe 1-2hrs/day on the TP. I pop up a spreadsheet on one monitor, graphs and charts on the other, power up the calculator on my desk, and play around for a bit. Play some short-term stuff, watch long-term investments. Take other people’s money (willingly) and invest it, and give them and myself profitable returns from it.

Of course, I’m not going to give you anything specific because that would interfere with my ability to make money for me and my clients (who only pay me with gold). I think flipping is the worst way to make money and probably the most boring thing that people willingly do.

Toroxus.9256:

Wanze.8410:

So what is the difference of flipping an item and playing tycoon? What does a tycoon actually do on the TP?

I spend maybe 1-2hrs/day on the TP. I pop up a spreadsheet on one monitor, graphs and charts on the other, power up the calculator on my desk, and play around for a bit. Play some short-term stuff, watch long-term investments. Take other people’s money (willingly) and invest it, and give them and myself profitable returns from it.

Of course, I’m not going to give you anything specific because that would interfere with my ability to make money for me and my clients (who only pay me with gold). I think flipping is the worst way to make money and probably the most boring thing that people willingly do.

So you are flipping items for profit. It doesnt matter if its long term or short term.

Wanze.8410:

So you are flipping items for profit. It doesnt matter if its long term or short term.

I am not buying items and then selling them back later.

Toroxus.9256:

Wanze.8410:

So you are flipping items for profit. It doesnt matter if its long term or short term.

I am not buying items and then selling them back later.

“Play some short-term stuff, watch long-term investments. Take other people’s money (willingly) and invest it, and give them and myself profitable returns from it.”

So what’s happening here?

Vol.7601:

“Play some short-term stuff, watch long-term investments. Take other people’s money (willingly) and invest it, and give them and myself profitable returns from it.”

So what’s happening here?

That’s for me to know and for you to boohoo because I’m never gonna tell you. Like I said, I’m not going to give anything specific because doing so would interfere with my ability to make money for myself and my clients. (Who, again, only pay me with gold)

Toroxus.9256:

Vol.7601:

“Play some short-term stuff, watch long-term investments. Take other people’s money (willingly) and invest it, and give them and myself profitable returns from it.”

So what’s happening here?

That’s for me to know and for you to boohoo because I’m never gonna tell you. Like I said, I’m not going to give anything specific because doing so would interfere with my ability to make money for myself and my clients. (Who, again, only pay me with gold)

So let me understand this..

You play the TP for the purpose of making a profit for both you and your clients..
Yet you do not buy items and sell them back later
And you dislike flipping.

Those three points pretty much don’t make any sense all together.

I figured you were short selling but that would only benefit you.

Could be buying items for salvage that give luck and return profits?

Essence Snow.3194:

Could be buying items for salvage that give luck and return profits?

That doesn’t really explain the ‘investing’ part.

Other points on salvaging:
-profit can only be made through buy orders (except when you are buying before a sudden change in price, like trinkets that gave silver jsut before the silver boom)
-Orders filled can take a long time
-Spread is very small and even more diluted when spread amongst buyer and seller

Question: Do you ask each of your clients to find 2-3 other people to invest?

Not going to lie, it sounds like a scam based on what you’ve said here.

mtpelion.4562:

Question: Do you ask each of your clients to find 2-3 other people to invest?

Not going to lie, it sounds like a scam based on what you’ve said here.

my god, it’s a pyramid scheme!

mtpelion.4562:

Question: Do you ask each of your clients to find 2-3 other people to invest?

Not going to lie, it sounds like a scam based on what you’ve said here.

Your attempted temptation to garner information about how we make gold was not successful. And even if someone pegged it right, I wouldn’t confirm it. I’m not here to tease, I’m here to say: There’s more to the TP then boring flipping that gets, at most, what? a 100g? That’s just a waste of time; menial labor.

Toroxus.9256:

mtpelion.4562:

Question: Do you ask each of your clients to find 2-3 other people to invest?

Not going to lie, it sounds like a scam based on what you’ve said here.

Your attempted temptation to garner information about how we make gold was not successful. And even if someone pegged it right, I wouldn’t confirm it. I’m not here to tease, I’m here to say: There’s more to the TP then boring flipping that gets, at most, what? a 100g? That’s just a waste of time; menial labor.

So you only spend 1-2 hours/day on the TP and yet you scoff at 100g? So what exactly is your gold rate? 400 gold an hour?

This all just BS. You have no credibility. Post a screenshot of your current gold on hand/investments and then you’ll have some. Cause right now it just seems you are saying BS just for the sake of it.

Vol.7601:

Toroxus.9256:

mtpelion.4562:

Question: Do you ask each of your clients to find 2-3 other people to invest?

Not going to lie, it sounds like a scam based on what you’ve said here.

Your attempted temptation to garner information about how we make gold was not successful. And even if someone pegged it right, I wouldn’t confirm it. I’m not here to tease, I’m here to say: There’s more to the TP then boring flipping that gets, at most, what? a 100g? That’s just a waste of time; menial labor.

So you only spend 1-2 hours/day on the TP and yet you scoff at 100g? So what exactly is your gold rate? 400 gold an hour?

This all just BS. You have no credibility. Post a screenshot of your current gold on hand/investments and then you’ll have some. Cause right now it just seems you are saying BS just for the sake of it.

It will be something along the line that he doesnt sell the items himself that he buys or he breaks down (salvage) or creates (craft, forge) new ones with it.

Vol.7601:

Toroxus.9256:

mtpelion.4562:

Question: Do you ask each of your clients to find 2-3 other people to invest?

Not going to lie, it sounds like a scam based on what you’ve said here.

Your attempted temptation to garner information about how we make gold was not successful. And even if someone pegged it right, I wouldn’t confirm it. I’m not here to tease, I’m here to say: There’s more to the TP then boring flipping that gets, at most, what? a 100g? That’s just a waste of time; menial labor.

So you only spend 1-2 hours/day on the TP and yet you scoff at 100g? So what exactly is your gold rate? 400 gold an hour?

This all just BS. You have no credibility. Post a screenshot of your current gold on hand/investments and then you’ll have some. Cause right now it just seems you are saying BS just for the sake of it.

I see some people can only think of flipping as a way to make money and refuse to branch out into other markets. But whatever, I only have the money I profitted this morning. The rest I tossed into the TP with another player an hour ago and hope to get 130% of it back in the next 8 hours.. As for my pocket guilds, you’re insane if you think I’d literally give away my trade secrets. And I didn’t scoff at 100g, once upon a time that’s all I could put on the TP, but now it’s just not worth my time compared to other amounts.

Edit: Just for laughs:
Spent an hour doing TP this morning, made a very good haul, by my standards at least, and made 929.6259g profit. The other hour was doing math for this afternoon’s investment.

Someone please add to this list if I missed any.

Ways to make gold.
1. Farm, sell mats.
2. Craft, sell item. (could be either buying or farming mats)
3. Flipping items.
4. Speculating items.
5. Salvaging items for mats, sell mats.
6. Gold -> gems -> gold (this would be difficult with conversion rates)

If the OP is accurately representing him/herself, then not reselling means either 1, 2, or 6. I would consider 5 the same as flipping, but s/he might not. So we’ll throw in that as a possibility. Since s/he said, investing for clients, I’ll throw out one and the part of two relying on farming. So either buying mats crafting and selling the item, buying an item salvaging and selling the mats, or gem conversion. With the gem conversion option, s/he would need more than 707 gems. That leaves crafting or salvaging. With 176% MF, it seems unlikely to make enough mats for the 929g “profit”. I’m guessing crafting with mats bought on the TP as buy orders then selling the item at highest market price.

Of course, without a response, we’ll never really know.

In regards to the pyramid scheme, it wouldn’t require the TP.

Edit: I guess I should have done this first, but I read most of Toroxus’s posts and s/he seems to be a speculator. No need for an answer directly since quite a few posts clearly indicate it.

brittitude.1983:

With the gem conversion option, s/he would need more than 707 gems.

What a staggering co-incidence.

Ways to make gold.
1. Farm, sell mats.
2. Craft, sell item. (could be either buying or farming mats)
3. Flipping items.
4. Speculating items.
5. Salvaging items for mats, sell mats.
6. Gold -> gems -> gold (this would be difficult with conversion rates)

The only thing on this list I denied doing was #3

Toroxus.9256:

brittitude.1983:

With the gem conversion option, s/he would need more than 707 gems.

What a staggering co-incidence.

I’m not sure what you mean. It was clearly posted in your previous picture showing your character and gold. My telepathy doesn’t work unless I know your real name.

You know I expected more than 1400g for someone who doesn’t flip and only makes 930G in profit a day. You know, 75,000G, 125,000G. I guess you’re telling me you stashed all this other gold on the TP? Yeah, sure.

Either you are lying or you are brilliant and found the greatest market inefficiency. I greatly lean towards the former. It’s not enough proof for me, but I doubt you care anyways.

brittitude.1983:

Toroxus.9256:

brittitude.1983:

With the gem conversion option, s/he would need more than 707 gems.

What a staggering co-incidence.

I’m not sure what you mean. It was clearly posted in your previous picture showing your character and gold. My telepathy doesn’t work unless I know your real name.

Ah, but I’ve speculated gems with less than 700 gems before.

Wanze.8410:

Vol.7601:

Toroxus.9256:

mtpelion.4562:

Question: Do you ask each of your clients to find 2-3 other people to invest?

Not going to lie, it sounds like a scam based on what you’ve said here.

Your attempted temptation to garner information about how we make gold was not successful. And even if someone pegged it right, I wouldn’t confirm it. I’m not here to tease, I’m here to say: There’s more to the TP then boring flipping that gets, at most, what? a 100g? That’s just a waste of time; menial labor.

So you only spend 1-2 hours/day on the TP and yet you scoff at 100g? So what exactly is your gold rate? 400 gold an hour?

This all just BS. You have no credibility. Post a screenshot of your current gold on hand/investments and then you’ll have some. Cause right now it just seems you are saying BS just for the sake of it.

It will be something along the line that he doesnt sell the items himself that he buys or he breaks down (salvage) or creates (craft, forge) new ones with it.

Could be that ‘super secret’ method that the guy posted on reddit awhile back that involved crafting rare greatswords and then selling them on the TP while utilizing multi-boxing.

Toroxus.9256:

brittitude.1983:

Toroxus.9256:

brittitude.1983:

With the gem conversion option, s/he would need more than 707 gems.

What a staggering co-incidence.

I’m not sure what you mean. It was clearly posted in your previous picture showing your character and gold. My telepathy doesn’t work unless I know your real name.

Ah, but I’ve speculated gems with less than 700 gems before.

Not for a 929 gold profit. I wasn’t trying to deduce all ways to make that much gold in just 2.5 hours a day, just the one way you most likely did it recently.

Vol.7601:

Wanze.8410:

Vol.7601:

Toroxus.9256:

mtpelion.4562:

Question: Do you ask each of your clients to find 2-3 other people to invest?

Not going to lie, it sounds like a scam based on what you’ve said here.

Your attempted temptation to garner information about how we make gold was not successful. And even if someone pegged it right, I wouldn’t confirm it. I’m not here to tease, I’m here to say: There’s more to the TP then boring flipping that gets, at most, what? a 100g? That’s just a waste of time; menial labor.

So you only spend 1-2 hours/day on the TP and yet you scoff at 100g? So what exactly is your gold rate? 400 gold an hour?

This all just BS. You have no credibility. Post a screenshot of your current gold on hand/investments and then you’ll have some. Cause right now it just seems you are saying BS just for the sake of it.

It will be something along the line that he doesnt sell the items himself that he buys or he breaks down (salvage) or creates (craft, forge) new ones with it.

Could be that ‘super secret’ method that the guy posted on reddit awhile back that involved crafting rare greatswords and then selling them on the TP while utilizing multi-boxing.

If I thought flipping is boring, why would I think that would be any better?

Making money on the TP involves “flipping” in one of these forms:
A. Buying an item and selling the same item later at a higher price
B. Buying an item and selling it’s salvaged parts for more than the item, or
C. Buying an item and crafting with it, and selling the crafted result at a profit (all parts considered)

The fact that you refer to “clients” suggests you are either running a Ponzi Scheme or require additional accounts because your income is subject to some kind of time-gating. If I had to wager, I’d put money on laurels or Ascended materials. Flipping is still involved though.

mtpelion.4562:

Making money on the TP involves “flipping” in one of these forms:
A. Buying an item and selling the same item later at a higher price
B. Buying an item and selling it’s salvaged parts for more than the item, or
C. Buying an item and crafting with it, and selling the crafted result at a profit (all parts considered)

I, and no one I know, defines flipping to be that inclusive. And there are more ways than your definition of “flipping” to make money.

Toroxus.9256:

Dear Anet,
I love everything about the TP. This is coming from someone who uses it a lot, and no, I don’t turn gems into gold. I could list off everything I love about the TP, from the fees (yes, some players are from GW and know why we have fees), to the amount of fun it can be if I want to play Tycoon (which I love to), to how optional it is for my friends who don’t like to play Tycoon. But that list would be enormous, so let me instead list things I don’t like:
1: The text when the game’s UI is set to small.
2. Flippers

So I just have two wishes:
1. Fix the font size.
2. Don’t become blinded with all the mud-slinging that goes on in this section.

Sincerely,
Toro

While in general i even agree with your general statement, I find it hard to believe that you later on claim to do no flipping at all.

The TP is also one of my favourite parts of the game for me and while the gold i made with it is nice to have, its not my main goal anymore. In general I have fun looking for good investments for the future and I am excited, when they finally pay off.

And instant item flipping is also boring in my opinion, so i rarely do it.

Toroxus.9256:

I, and no one I know, defines flipping to be that inclusive. And there are more ways than your definition of “flipping” to make money.

In all cases listed above you are flipping as you are buying a product and then reselling it (sometimes in an altered state).

I’m excluding farming and selling because that isn’t really using the TP to make money, it is using game drops to make money.

Vol.7601:

Toroxus.9256:

Vol.7601:

“Play some short-term stuff, watch long-term investments. Take other people’s money (willingly) and invest it, and give them and myself profitable returns from it.”

So what’s happening here?

That’s for me to know and for you to boohoo because I’m never gonna tell you. Like I said, I’m not going to give anything specific because doing so would interfere with my ability to make money for myself and my clients. (Who, again, only pay me with gold)

So let me understand this..

You play the TP for the purpose of making a profit for both you and your clients..
Yet you do not buy items and sell them back later
And you dislike flipping.

Those three points pretty much don’t make any sense all together.

I figured you were short selling but that would only benefit you.

my guess would be that be that he is buying up cheap items and crating them into more valueable items (my guess would be its in the chef area as there are many items with gigantic profit margins that don’t sell for too much but cost near nothing to make?)

929 gold in 2.5 hours. There’s only a small number of items where thats possible even when you get lucky. Either the Item’s a legendary or its one of the top traded items who are on a steady price like iron or alike.
There are some stockmarket tricks that you could be able to pull off in a system like our tradingpost. All of which require enormeous amounts of gold for sufficient manipulation which would explain why he needs “clients” who add to his 1.5k capital.

Disdroid.6109:

929 gold in 2.5 hours. There’s only a small number of items where thats possible even when you get lucky. Either the Item’s a legendary or its one of the top traded items who are on a steady price like iron or alike.
There are some stockmarket tricks that you could be able to pull off in a system like our tradingpost. All of which require enormeous amounts of gold for sufficient manipulation which would explain why he needs “clients” who add to his 1.5k capital.

Just 1.5k Capital? Surely you jest; that’s not enough money to pull much weight on the TP anymore. Having more clients does improve profit margins, even if they only toss in a few hundred gold or half a plat. It’s like running an investment firm of a sort.

If I had 1.5k liquid I could pull off quiet a few stunts, but not everything I know off. That also depends on the Item in question, the maximum profit I want and the safety of the whole project.