Guild Wars 2

In what way would it effect the current game?

(note: $500 today will give you a maxed leveled character, with a legendary and full exotic armor set).

People would complain a lot. Other than that it wouldn’t make much difference.

Gear =/= skill.

Belorn.2659:

In what way would it effect the current game?

(note: $500 today will give you a maxed leveled character, with a legendary and full exotic armor set).

I got my first five 80s for $60, $500 sounds like pay to lose…

P2W would make the game different how exactly?

You can currently pay to level, pay to get the best gear in the game, pay to get boosters that give a statistical significant advantage over the best gear in the game, pay to get gold and pay to get cosmetics. The only aspect of the game you can’t P2W currently is dungeon and karma gear, which no one really cares about anyway.

This game is the most P2W AAA game on the market right now.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

P2W would make the game different how exactly?

You can currently pay to level, pay to get the best gear in the game, pay to get boosters that give a statistical significant advantage over the best gear in the game, pay to get gold and pay to get cosmetics. The only aspect of the game you can’t P2W currently is dungeon and karma gear, which no one really cares about anyway.

This game is the most P2W AAA game on the market right now.

´
Wait, what are these boosters that give “a statistical significant advantage over the best gear in the game”? I would love to buy them and be able to rofl-stomp everyone, even those much more skilled than me!

Belorn.2659:

In what way would it effect the current game?

(note: $500 today will give you a maxed leveled character, with a legendary and full exotic armor set).

Well in WvW it already is.

1. Before a season starts, pay to move to the “favorite to win” server.
2. Win.

TooBz.3065:

People would complain a lot. Other than that it wouldn’t make much difference.

Gear =/= skill.

Try white/fine/masterwork gear, then try ascended/legendary gear, then come back and tell us there is absolutely no difference.

If there is absolutely no difference then everyone would be wearing white gear because they are the cheapest.

DarkSpirit.7046:

TooBz.3065:

People would complain a lot. Other than that it wouldn’t make much difference.

Gear =/= skill.

Try white/fine/masterwork gear, then try ascended/legendary gear, then come back and tell us there is absolutely no difference.

If there is absolutely no difference then everyone would be wearing white gear because they are the cheapest.

Who said there is no difference or that gear doesn’t matter at all?

You can get “good enough” gear for PvE in the game easily enough. WvW is a different beast, but people constantly claim that you don’t need BiS gear there either (zerg). So the ability to buy ascended gear with cash probably wouldn’t affect things too much, outside of the obvious outrage.

However, I would pit any class I have at 80 in white gear against a brand new, never played the game, anyone who bought a level 80 and a legendary. And I am far far far (FAR) from the best player.

Define “winning,” please.

I’ve spent a ton in the gemstore, all on cosmetics (and also storage space to hold said cosmetics). I have got exactly one pink item, a ring that dropped in a fractal once, no legendary or plans to get one. I have 9 80’s, all with exotics (thanks to temple gear, mostly), and not that much gold in my wallet.

I am one Arah path away from Dungeon Master, I’ve completed almost every event meta, I have a ton of RP with a lot of great people, I’m in the game a lot and just got my 9K achieve chest. I think I’ve “won” and am continuing to “win.” I’m just not lording it over other people. Speaking of RP, you don’t “win” that unless everyone in the story has a lot of fun.

Ok, so I don’t WvW. No amount of money spent will ever make me any good at PvP in any game.

So what do you mean by “winning?”

TooBz.3065:

Who said there is no difference or that gear doesn’t matter at all?

You can get “good enough” gear for PvE in the game easily enough. WvW is a different beast, but people constantly claim that you don’t need BiS gear there either (zerg). So the ability to buy ascended gear with cash probably wouldn’t affect things too much, outside of the obvious outrage.

However, I would pit any class I have at 80 in white gear against a brand new, never played the game, anyone who bought a level 80 and a legendary. And I am far far far (FAR) from the best player.

So obviously gear does make a difference. Try clearing the same dungeon in all white gear if anyone disagrees.

And of course WvW, especially if you fight 1-v-1 in there.

DarkSpirit.7046:

TooBz.3065:

Who said there is no difference or that gear doesn’t matter at all?

You can get “good enough” gear for PvE in the game easily enough. WvW is a different beast, but people constantly claim that you don’t need BiS gear there either (zerg). So the ability to buy ascended gear with cash probably wouldn’t affect things too much, outside of the obvious outrage.

However, I would pit any class I have at 80 in white gear against a brand new, never played the game, anyone who bought a level 80 and a legendary. And I am far far far (FAR) from the best player.

So obviously gear does make a difference. Try clearing the same dungeon in all white gear if anyone disagrees.

And of course WvW, especially if you fight 1-v-1 in there.

Conceded. But wasn’t the question how the game would change if you could buy gear for cash?

TooBz.3065:

DarkSpirit.7046:

TooBz.3065:

Who said there is no difference or that gear doesn’t matter at all?

You can get “good enough” gear for PvE in the game easily enough. WvW is a different beast, but people constantly claim that you don’t need BiS gear there either (zerg). So the ability to buy ascended gear with cash probably wouldn’t affect things too much, outside of the obvious outrage.

However, I would pit any class I have at 80 in white gear against a brand new, never played the game, anyone who bought a level 80 and a legendary. And I am far far far (FAR) from the best player.

So obviously gear does make a difference. Try clearing the same dungeon in all white gear if anyone disagrees.

And of course WvW, especially if you fight 1-v-1 in there.

Conceded. But wasn’t the question how the game would change if you could buy gear for cash?

It would depend on the type of gear for sale. If ArenaNet comes up with another gear tier that is more powerful than ascended, and the only way to get it is to buy it from the gem store, then I believe many people would protest but many more would flock to buy them.

The game would change for the worse then. WvW and this game in general would be considered to be only for the gem-rich.

There are games in which paying for gear/guns/tanks pretty much guarantees a win over other players in a competition.

In GW2, due to the nature of the combat, max gear is no guarantee of a victory.

You could pay $500 to max your character’s level, and still lose to an uplevel in WvW. So where exactly is the “P2W” part of this?

There are so many people here who don’t understand what “pay to win” means. Pay to win means that spending more money on the game amounts to a statistical advantage as compared to players who do not spend money. In PVP, all items are equal. In PVE, there’s only a very tiny difference in stat values between exotic and ascended (5%?). A player who’s determined to can make enough gold for full exotic gear (armor/weapons/trinkets) in about 20 hours of gameplay. If you want to see Pay to Win, go play Maple Story.

This game is about as far from “Pay to win” as a game can get while having a cash shop.

Maybe when they complain about P2W, it’s about winning “Best Dressed Town Outfit Competition”?

Ursan.7846:

There are games in which paying for gear/guns/tanks pretty much guarantees a win over other players in a competition.

In GW2, due to the nature of the combat, max gear is no guarantee of a victory.

Even so, it does help. Especially in sPvP/WvW, every single bit of stat helps you to win against your opponent.

DarkSpirit.7046:

Ursan.7846:

There are games in which paying for gear/guns/tanks pretty much guarantees a win over other players in a competition.

In GW2, due to the nature of the combat, max gear is no guarantee of a victory.

Even so, it does help. Especially in sPvP/WvW, every single bit of stat helps you to win against your opponent.

Not true. Skill has greater weight than stats.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

DarkSpirit.7046:

Ursan.7846:

There are games in which paying for gear/guns/tanks pretty much guarantees a win over other players in a competition.

In GW2, due to the nature of the combat, max gear is no guarantee of a victory.

Even so, it does help. Especially in sPvP/WvW, every single bit of stat helps you to win against your opponent.

Not true. Skill has greater weight than stats.

if that was so, then explain to me why zergs keep on farming low level places for gold and armor drops, ruining it for low levels.
why is it so important to have at least rare armor to be accepted in a party, why a white armor is seen as trash?

DarkSpirit.7046:

Ursan.7846:

There are games in which paying for gear/guns/tanks pretty much guarantees a win over other players in a competition.

In GW2, due to the nature of the combat, max gear is no guarantee of a victory.

Even so, it does help. Especially in sPvP/WvW, every single bit of stat helps you to win against your opponent.

Of course it helps. This isn’t a black and white argument though. It isn’t whether it does help or does not help. It is about the degree to which it helps. There is a huge difference between gear which is sold with $$$ being 1000% more effective than gear obtained in-game, and gear that is 5% better than gear that is EASILY obtained in-game. Combined with the fact that the same tier gear is still available through normal gameplay with a bit of effort.(not exclusive to real money), the existence of the “P2W” concept in GW2 is very weak.

(Assuming if you can buy Ascended gear, of course. Which you can’t.)

sorudo.9054:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

DarkSpirit.7046:

Ursan.7846:

There are games in which paying for gear/guns/tanks pretty much guarantees a win over other players in a competition.

In GW2, due to the nature of the combat, max gear is no guarantee of a victory.

Even so, it does help. Especially in sPvP/WvW, every single bit of stat helps you to win against your opponent.

Not true. Skill has greater weight than stats.

if that was so, then explain to me why zergs keep on farming low level places for gold and armor drops, ruining it for low levels.
why is it so important to have at least rare armor to be accepted in a party, why a white armor is seen as trash?

1) Champ loot scales to the level of the character. If you’re lv 30, don’t expect a lv 80 drop. Some low level areas have Champ Trains, simply because there’s enough of them to cycle through constantly.

2) Parties have their own requirements. If I don’t know you, sure I’ll ask you to ping gear. But if you’re my guildie, I’ll carry you if need be. Just because one party ask for fully geared players, doesn’t mean all do the same though.

3) White armor is only “trash” if you get something greater. I played my new character with white armor until I could afford different ones.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

3) White armor is only “trash” if you get something greater. I played my new character with white armor until I could afford different ones.

This confuses me greatly. How do you do this? Especially when blues/greens drop so frequently.

Let me make this really simple: Pay to win means that using the cash shop gives you an advantage that cannot be gained without using real money.

Therefore, GW2 is not pay to win.

In response to the original question, I don’t play games that are pay to win, so I can tell you that one minor change would be my absence.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

DarkSpirit.7046:

Ursan.7846:

There are games in which paying for gear/guns/tanks pretty much guarantees a win over other players in a competition.

In GW2, due to the nature of the combat, max gear is no guarantee of a victory.

Even so, it does help. Especially in sPvP/WvW, every single bit of stat helps you to win against your opponent.

Not true. Skill has greater weight than stats.

Let’s just imagine you wearing all white gear and me on ascended. Even though I have not pvp much, I would be very confident to win against you. If you don’t believe me, we can try that out.

Ursan.7846:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

3) White armor is only “trash” if you get something greater. I played my new character with white armor until I could afford different ones.

This confuses me greatly. How do you do this? Especially when blues/greens drop so frequently.

Instead of waiting for drops, I would buy them off of the TP.

Oh no… I just fell into the P2W trap!

DarkSpirit.7046:

TooBz.3065:

Who said there is no difference or that gear doesn’t matter at all?

You can get “good enough” gear for PvE in the game easily enough. WvW is a different beast, but people constantly claim that you don’t need BiS gear there either (zerg). So the ability to buy ascended gear with cash probably wouldn’t affect things too much, outside of the obvious outrage.

However, I would pit any class I have at 80 in white gear against a brand new, never played the game, anyone who bought a level 80 and a legendary. And I am far far far (FAR) from the best player.

So obviously gear does make a difference. Try clearing the same dungeon in all white gear if anyone disagrees.

And of course WvW, especially if you fight 1-v-1 in there.

Tbh… even in a 1v1 it would have to be a very close fight for the gear to matter between exotic (very easy to obtain, using whites is a sraw man argument) and ascended. It can make up for a slight amount of skill, but it’s not an I win button by any means.

Seriously if you feel gw2 is a p2w game, you should go play some korean f2p games to gain some perspective.

Aberrant.6749:

DarkSpirit.7046:

TooBz.3065:

Who said there is no difference or that gear doesn’t matter at all?

You can get “good enough” gear for PvE in the game easily enough. WvW is a different beast, but people constantly claim that you don’t need BiS gear there either (zerg). So the ability to buy ascended gear with cash probably wouldn’t affect things too much, outside of the obvious outrage.

However, I would pit any class I have at 80 in white gear against a brand new, never played the game, anyone who bought a level 80 and a legendary. And I am far far far (FAR) from the best player.

So obviously gear does make a difference. Try clearing the same dungeon in all white gear if anyone disagrees.

And of course WvW, especially if you fight 1-v-1 in there.

Tbh… even in a 1v1 it would have to be a very close fight for the gear to matter between exotic (very easy to obtain, using whites is a sraw man argument) and ascended. It can make up for a slight amount of skill, but it’s not an I win button by any means.

Seriously if you feel gw2 is a p2w game, you should go play some korean f2p games to gain some perspective.

Nah…I never claim that gw2 is a p2w game, at least not yet.

Gear does matter, but the best gear in the game right now requires spending time in certain locations to acquire, not gems or gold.

Exotics are cheap, ascended trinkets are easy to get. Ascended weapon costs a bit, but can also drop. I don’t see why people whine and moan? But that’s all people do on these forums i noticed.

gw2 never been pay to win, and most likely never will be. As for WvW, servers “paying” a win surely happens. But in my experience, aslong i have fun and mostly succeed in taking objectives in which i participate, means a win to me even if my servers gets the least ppt. Servers with high ppt, long que’s, boring battles, almost no kills and mostly pvdoor is a big fat loss.

Pay to win what, exactly?

Pure PvP has been kept “pure” thus far (t/spvp). You (and your team) do well, you win. Your glorious prowess is shown on the leaderboard. Nothing in the gemstore to help you there.

WvW is so zergy I’d say it barely matters. Both sides will have low level people running around in greens, it all evens out eventually. Besides that, there is no personal WvW leaderboard, it’s only your world as a whole that counts. So only if your world “wins”, you “win”.

Those are the only two PvP related activities I know in GW2 which traditionally are considered to determine whether “P2W” exists.

Buttercup.5871:

Pay to win what, exactly?

Pure PvP has been kept “pure” thus far (t/spvp). You (and your team) do well, you win. Your glorious prowess is shown on the leaderboard. Nothing in the gemstore to help you there.

WvW is so zergy I’d say it barely matters. Both sides will have low level people running around in greens, it all evens out eventually. Besides that, there is no personal WvW leaderboard, it’s only your world as a whole that counts. So only if your world “wins”, you “win”.

Those are the only two PvP related activities I know in GW2 which traditionally are considered to determine whether “P2W” exists.

1st you have to look at defining P2W. If we stick to a customary definition, then PvE is very hard to justify. If we take a more open approach (the fractal leader boards for example) to the definition, then we can see we have pretty much already crossed that line. The term “Keeping up with the Jones’s” comes to mind.

In terms of PvP, custom arena are boarderline P2W. Again it depends on how strictly one defines the constraints of p2w.

In WvW it really depends on organization. Unorganized zergs do not stand up to lesser numbers (within reason 2-1….4-1)when lesser numbers are organized (geared, proper skills, tactics).

lordkrall.7241:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

P2W would make the game different how exactly?

You can currently pay to level, pay to get the best gear in the game, pay to get boosters that give a statistical significant advantage over the best gear in the game, pay to get gold and pay to get cosmetics. The only aspect of the game you can’t P2W currently is dungeon and karma gear, which no one really cares about anyway.

This game is the most P2W AAA game on the market right now.

´
Wait, what are these boosters that give “a statistical significant advantage over the best gear in the game”? I would love to buy them and be able to rofl-stomp everyone, even those much more skilled than me!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Strength_Booster
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_Booster
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_Booster
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rejuvenation_Booster

Can’t use in sPvP, but feel free to rofl-stomp anyone you want in WvW.

Hm, I just checked the gemstore and I can’t buy a single one of those, so apparently we have different versions of the store.

lordkrall.7241:

Hm, I just checked the gemstore and I can’t buy a single one of those, so apparently we have different versions of the store.

Oh that’s cause you have to use RNG (with real money) if you want to win:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest

They are “common” drops so you should only need to spend $40-$60 to get an advantage over other players.

void success {
if gamemode (pay to win )
then ( will die )
return value
}

p.s. in this function there is no any else

I once tried a pay to win mmo… Horrible :/.

I wanted to try pvp in q place that was level capped to 15. Which was very low. I figured there arent that many items yet, and it wouldnt make a huge difference… I was wrong.

A person spent 1000s of dollars on the shop, and basically, when he logged in the opposite was inmediatally like “yup. We’re so dead. Lets go afk till he gets bored.”

The huy did some aoe attack that one shotted everyone, like 5000 damage. We had 300ish hp :/. And we did 1 damage to him >_<.

It wasnt fun.

Also, one of my favourite flash games. I cant remember the name, but you control bacteria and infect cells, which over time give more bacteria C:

In the online version, there was literally an item “increases your strength, reproduction rate, speed and agility by times 100. Never lose again! only 1 euro and 99 cent.”

Yeeaaa… About 75% of the playerbase got that item. It wasnt fun :/.

TooBz.3065:

People would complain a lot. Other than that it wouldn’t make much difference.

Gear =/= skill.

skill =/= guild wars 2

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Oh that’s cause you have to use RNG (with real money) if you want to win:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest

They are “common” drops so you should only need to spend $40-$60 to get an advantage over other players.

So they are not actually in the gemstore then, but rather a drop in the game?
Because I have yet too see a single situation where I could buy the Chests in the Gemstore either.

Locked Black Lion Chest are a common drop in the game.
To unlock them you need Black Lion Keys which you can purchase from the gemstore (you also get 1 key for doing the level 10 storyline and 1 more at later a storyline level)

Unlocked Black Lion Keys drops stuff and boosters are a common drop from it. For a list of stuff you can get take a look at wiki http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest

The most apparent P2W items are Strength Booster for a +5% damage and Armor Booster for +5% damage reduction.

I am fully aware how the Black Lion Chest works.

They do not make the game P2W though, especially not since you can’t even buy them directly, and you can get said keys in-game, thus the boost themselves are available just as much (or even more actually, since the chests only comes from the game) in-game as in the gemstore.

Lynie.6437:

skill =/= guild wars 2

Please post a video of you soloing Lupi. If skill is not a factor, then you should be able to do it with the correct gear/trait set-up.

I shall be looking forward to your demonstration that skill is not required in GW2.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You could pay $500 to max your character’s level, and still lose to an uplevel in WvW. So where exactly is the “P2W” part of this?

Maybe if he sat on his hands during the encounter. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an 80 lose to an uplevel.

Chris RJ.1843:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You could pay $500 to max your character’s level, and still lose to an uplevel in WvW. So where exactly is the “P2W” part of this?

Maybe if he sat on his hands during the encounter. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an 80 lose to an uplevel.

Clearly you don’t roam with skilled players in WvW. There are smart players out there with upleveled characters that can take out fully geared lv 80s.