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“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
- Mike Obrien
- Mike Obrien
Inflation
[…] I also don’t see where it was ever stated that the economy in this game was specifically supposed to benefit all users. Please cite your source.
That’s just the distribution of wealth. There’s more to the economy than just wealth. Unless they took a completely socialistic approach, there’s no way they could benefit all users. The way that everything is set up in the game does not suggest that this is the case.
I know that I could probably explain this better and be more detailed but it’s late.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
The point is the thread is as you say, how the user feels about the value of top end items, does not necessarily reflect strict inflation.
The fact, is within this system it is normal and even fine that certain items prices fall out of reach, as the earning/gold by the top players increases. This isnt really inflation, because its normal that the people with more money can buy the best item.
The point is you are saying the economy is functioning as it should, and are missing the point that the economy functioning close to a real economy is not necessarily a very satisfying experience for the user. And the main purpose of this economy is to be satisfying for the user, unlike our economy whose main purpose is very different.
No. It’s not about how a player feels. That whole subjective concept is something you introduced into this thread. The thread was created as a complaint that prices appeared to be rising more than gold could be earned blaming inflation and that there were not enough gold sinks to prevent this.
Others then chimed in who did not know basic economic concepts (the same as if I entered a quantum mechanics discussion when I knew nothing about it) and made it off as there’s rampant inflation going on based off the sell prices of a handful of items. Not once did they think to check for underlying factors that could be causing price increases in a few items.
Prices of items and how much the top players make have little to no correlation. Prices of items are determined by how much demand there are for them and the supply. There’s obviously much more to it than that but I wanted to point out that how much a few people have, and their ability to purchase items, does not influence the price of said items. The only way those few individuals could affect the price is if they manipulated the supply.
No, I am not missing the point. You don’t understand the role of the economy/market. Your reasoning reminds me of socialism. I also don’t see where it was ever stated that the economy in this game was specifically supposed to benefit all users. Please cite your source.
The point of the thread was that desirable items are rising faster than their ability to earn, and that gold sinks could curb this. IMO its not a correct assumption that gold sinks will solve that problem. But the real problem the OP has, is that desirable items are rising faster than the ability to earn, which is a natural course for top end demanded items, its mathematics.
If an item comes into being one per hour of 500,000 peoples playing time, it would take 20833 days, or 57 years for every one to get one. This means in the first year, this item is only actually marketed to the top 1.7% of earning potential. With new users coming in all the time, it means it wont nessecarily be marketed to the next 1.7% in year two. While this is not absolute because it is not neccarilly true that every body wants it, it essentially means out of the people who do want it, the price will be determined by what the top players think is ok.
So essentially, for an extremely long period of time, a low supply item, will only be marketed to the richest players. just being conservative lets say its marketed to the top 30% of earners.
Now if you realize that hey the top 30% of earners make 10 times or more the amount of say 65% of the population, you realize the prices will not reflect a value that is approachable for many of the players.
And yes it happens irl too.
socialism is not the opposite of an economy, its actually a socioeconomic structure, much like free market is. It is just one of many possible answers to how a group of people agree to deal with economics.
And yes the point of an economy IN A GAME is to foster the type of gameplay you want and make it enjoyable for players. Keep in mind an economy is not just about the TP, but its actually about the rewards systems, the goods and the services that are available, and their relative value. You can have economies without having money at all.
See the key here is a game is about entertainment, the game is best played by ignoring the rewards, or just learning to balance grind versus fun for many people, thats not really that optimal.
You’re not going to get anywhere with this.
While I agree with the sentiment, look through the BLTC forums. The consistent answer to “The economy isn’t making the game fun” is “The economy is functioning well”. I’ve made the same kind of posts that you have. I’ve asked if a free market economy really serves a heroic fantasy game. The answer is always “The economy is functioning well”.
I just started reading Neil Stephenson’s novel Reamde. It revolves around an MMORPG that was first conceived as a virtual economy designed to make real money, that later had a story and game grafted around it.
The economy here is not designed to support the player experience of roleplaying a world-saving hero. The experience of roleplaying a world-saving hero is designed to give you a reason to engage in the virtual economy.
This is what gaming is becoming. From Farmville to the new MMORPG where goldselling is integrated into the game, these are economic engines with entertainment shells.
GW2 seems to have trouble figuring that out, which I think comes back to the issue that this game is economy focused instead of content focused. Every encounter is designed around how it will affect the economy instead of centered around the reward like in other MMO’s.
I dont think the game is economy-focused. But every single decision regarding rewards, loot, item WILL have an impact on the game economy. The fact is, you really do have to take into consideration the game economy, because a lot is hinged on that. I’d wager a poor economy turns people off faster than poor content. (case in point: count how many threads there are that complain about how a.) the market is screwed b.) difficult it is to get a certain reward vs the lameness of the dungeon, living world, game mechanics, etc.)
But it doesn’t have to be. Rewards in Wildstar, WoW, Rift, etc don’t have any effect on the economy. Gold is used for fluff and if you have bad luck and that is it.
Sounds like GW2 … Gold is also primarily used for fluff. You don’t need gold once you outfit yourself for whatever aspect of the game you want to play. Ascended gear is not needed for anything but the MOST difficult encounters only because of a specific gating stat to boot, not the increase of stats you get from the gear itself. That’s where the difference you speak of is a wash. Other games evolve around ever increasing tiers of more powerful gear. GW2 does not.
People need to understand that FUNDAMENTAL difference between GW2 and everything else before they start QQing about rewards, gold, inflation, economy, etc… most don’t. Once you come to realize that almost ALL game content is balanced around the rare/exotic-level of gear, you come to realize how silly crying about the difficulty of obtaining Ascended gear actually is.
the gear in other games is really just a gating mechanism, or an incentive. It doesnt really matter as much as the fact that their is teired content, it basically allows them to simulate a beat this level and progress to the harder new area thing.
GW2 has gear teirs, but it isnt leading you anywhere. I dont object to that in principle, but the problem is it does lead you, just not into playing the game in the best way. The best way to play gw2 reward wise, is to do the simplest easiest thing that generates the most equivalent value in gold. In other games, the best way to play is to do whatever they decide is the best things to do.
Or in other words .. those game force you to do content you maybe don’t like at all to get your stuff, while GW2 allows you to play whatever content you like and you still can get your stuff.
EVERY MMO is awesome until it is released then its unfinished. A month after release it just sucks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
GW2 seems to have trouble figuring that out, which I think comes back to the issue that this game is economy focused instead of content focused. Every encounter is designed around how it will affect the economy instead of centered around the reward like in other MMO’s.
I dont think the game is economy-focused. But every single decision regarding rewards, loot, item WILL have an impact on the game economy. The fact is, you really do have to take into consideration the game economy, because a lot is hinged on that. I’d wager a poor economy turns people off faster than poor content. (case in point: count how many threads there are that complain about how a.) the market is screwed b.) difficult it is to get a certain reward vs the lameness of the dungeon, living world, game mechanics, etc.)
But it doesn’t have to be. Rewards in Wildstar, WoW, Rift, etc don’t have any effect on the economy. Gold is used for fluff and if you have bad luck and that is it.
Sounds like GW2 … Gold is also primarily used for fluff. You don’t need gold once you outfit yourself for whatever aspect of the game you want to play. Ascended gear is not needed for anything but the MOST difficult encounters only because of a specific gating stat to boot, not the increase of stats you get from the gear itself. That’s where the difference you speak of is a wash. Other games evolve around ever increasing tiers of more powerful gear. GW2 does not.
People need to understand that FUNDAMENTAL difference between GW2 and everything else before they start QQing about rewards, gold, inflation, economy, etc… most don’t. Once you come to realize that almost ALL game content is balanced around the rare/exotic-level of gear, you come to realize how silly crying about the difficulty of obtaining Ascended gear actually is.
the gear in other games is really just a gating mechanism, or an incentive. It doesnt really matter as much as the fact that their is teired content, it basically allows them to simulate a beat this level and progress to the harder new area thing.
GW2 has gear teirs, but it isnt leading you anywhere. I dont object to that in principle, but the problem is it does lead you, just not into playing the game in the best way. The best way to play gw2 reward wise, is to do the simplest easiest thing that generates the most equivalent value in gold. In other games, the best way to play is to do whatever they decide is the best things to do.Or in other words .. those game force you to do content you maybe don’t like at all to get your stuff, while GW2 allows you to play whatever content you like and you still can get your stuff.
Or you get gear you want for said content via said content.
Serenity now~Insanity later
Or you get gear you want for said content via said content.
I prefer getting the gear I want from the content I want, which is the GW2 system. It isn’t based on gold, it is based on playing how you want and still getting rewards and it achieves this marvel by utilizing gold.
Server: Devona’s Rest
Or you get gear you want for said content via said content.
I prefer getting the gear I want from the content I want, which is the GW2 system. It isn’t based on gold, it is based on playing how you want and still getting rewards and it achieves this marvel by utilizing gold.
I hope you realize you said in the same breath that “it isn’t based on gold” and “it achieves this marvel by utilizing gold”. ergo It’s based on gold…
Serenity now~Insanity later
Or in other words .. those game force you to do content you maybe don’t like at all to get your stuff, while GW2 allows you to play whatever content you like and you still can get your stuff.
Not really, as long as you can sell the gear you get, other games you choose the content you enjoy, you get really good at it, and you sell items from what you are good at to get the money for the items that arent in a mode you play.
This is trading value for different goals/gametypes.
In GW2 its essentially the same, except there is no way to get what you want directly (or its very ineffecient).
you basically must farm, or just take longer to do everything
example, lets say you want silk, the best way to get silk right now, is to do whatever makes the most money, and then buy the silk. If you like playing fractals level 50, you will be able to buy your daily required silk for crafting in 5-3 runs, which is 4-5 hours to earn 7.29 gold.
or you can spend less than one hour power farming, or .7-1.5 hours running the easiest paths as fast as you can, or you can play the TP.
so no, you cant really do whatever you want any more than you could in other games, the difference is at least there was a possibility that what you wanted to do could get you the items you wanted, or the better you got it, the more you could get for doing it.
one game i played was like this:
master gatherer? he was able to get highly valued items by going in to dangerous areas and mining rare nodes with a chance for good drops
master crafter? he was able to 1 items and make massive loot
18 size guilds? do 18 man content regularly and split the profits from the drops
6 man groups? target profitable enemies, then use token they get while farming enemies to do special boss fights
solo players? Hunt rare Soloable NMs.
Farmers, hunt monsters who drop valuable drops but were easy to kill repetedly.
Best way to get most things? (fastest way) hunt it yourself(your group of people) if you can, if not buy it with money made from doing the things you are good at.
it was far from perfect overall, but you felt like you could get good, and get the things you wanted by playing content.
Gw2 best way to get things is to do whatever max earning meta is currently around. Its very rare that you make more with direct targeting anything. Most forms of gameplay give substantially less profit than whatever the current max earning meta is.
Or you get gear you want for said content via said content.
I prefer getting the gear I want from the content I want, which is the GW2 system. It isn’t based on gold, it is based on playing how you want and still getting rewards and it achieves this marvel by utilizing gold.
ill say it again, this is simply not true, it would be true if all content rewarded gold similarly, but this is far from the case.
Also, just because a game gives better rewards through focused play doesnt mean its not sellable/tradeable. That is the type of system where gold would actually be players exchanging value for what type of content they are playing. GW2 doesnt do that because it doesnt have a system where the majority of drops are focused drops. a signifigant amount of supply is generally unintentionally created.
This means that you are forced to play the best gold earning content, or not get the stuff you want, which is essentially the same as other games.
I hope you realize you said in the same breath that “it isn’t based on gold” and “it achieves this marvel by utilizing gold”. ergo It’s based on gold…
That’s just as ridiculous as saying “houses are based on hammers”.
You are really grasping here…
ill say it again, this is simply not true, it would be true if all content rewarded gold similarly, but this is far from the case.
Also, just because a game gives better rewards through focused play doesnt mean its not sellable/tradeable. That is the type of system where gold would actually be players exchanging value for what type of content they are playing. GW2 doesnt do that because it doesnt have a system where the majority of drops are focused drops. a signifigant amount of supply is generally unintentionally created.
This means that you are forced to play the best gold earning content, or not get the stuff you want, which is essentially the same as other games.
The payout need not be equal for my statement to be perfectly true. You are not forced to do anything you don’t want to do, you are CHOOSING to do things you don’t like in order to achieve rewards faster and BLAMING the system for your poor selection of content.
What you have, is a personal problem, not a game problem.
Server: Devona’s Rest
I hope you realize you said in the same breath that “it isn’t based on gold” and “it achieves this marvel by utilizing gold”. ergo It’s based on gold…
That’s just as ridiculous as saying “houses are based on hammers”.
You are really grasping here…
ill say it again, this is simply not true, it would be true if all content rewarded gold similarly, but this is far from the case.
Also, just because a game gives better rewards through focused play doesnt mean its not sellable/tradeable. That is the type of system where gold would actually be players exchanging value for what type of content they are playing. GW2 doesnt do that because it doesnt have a system where the majority of drops are focused drops. a signifigant amount of supply is generally unintentionally created.
This means that you are forced to play the best gold earning content, or not get the stuff you want, which is essentially the same as other games.
The payout need not be equal for my statement to be perfectly true. You are not forced to do anything you don’t want to do, you are CHOOSING to do things you don’t like in order to achieve rewards faster and BLAMING the system for your poor selection of content.
What you have, is a personal problem, not a game problem.
given what you are saying there is no advantage to this system over having items in specific content, as long as its sellable.
you would actually have an extra option.
1) option earn gold, buy item
2)option play specific content get item
GW2 currently is
1) earn gold buy item.
i think more options is better than one.
also the game is telling you mathematically that you are doing it wrong if you are not doing the most effecient method. So like i said, you can choose to ignore the rewards and the reward system if you want to enjoy yourself
the only point of a reward system where you do the things you dont like in order to succeed, is if somehow doing the things you dont like benefit the game as a whole more. Thats not the case here. In fact there are many negatives associated with most of the best gold earning metas.
(edited by phys.7689)
I hope you realize you said in the same breath that “it isn’t based on gold” and “it achieves this marvel by utilizing gold”. ergo It’s based on gold…
That’s just as ridiculous as saying “houses are based on hammers”.
You are really grasping here…
What? You directly contradict yourself then say I’m grasping at straws? That’s funny!
Serenity now~Insanity later
I hope you realize you said in the same breath that “it isn’t based on gold” and “it achieves this marvel by utilizing gold”. ergo It’s based on gold…
That’s just as ridiculous as saying “houses are based on hammers”.
You are really grasping here…
What? You directly contradict yourself then say I’m grasping at straws? That’s funny!
If you perceive a contradiction, despite my correcting your incorrect perception, then I suppose I have nothing left to say to one such as yourself. Casting pearls, etc.
given what you are saying there is no advantage to this system over having items in specific content, as long as its sellable.
you would actually have an extra option.1) option earn gold, buy item
2)option play specific content get itemGW2 currently is
1) earn gold buy item.i think more options is better than one.
also the game is telling you mathematically that you are doing it wrong if you are not doing the most effecient method. So like i said, you can choose to ignore the rewards and the reward system if you want to enjoy yourself
the only point of a reward system where you do the things you dont like in order to succeed is good, is if somehow doing the things you dont like benefit the game as a whole more. Thats not the case here. In fact there are many negatives associated with most of the best gold earning metas.
I never said I was opposed to having specific rewards drop from specific content, I was just pointing out that you can currently access any rewards (with a few minor exceptions) by playing only the content you like. Sure, sometimes the stuff you like doing is not the fastest way, but if you are having fun then why do you need to do it quickly?
Server: Devona’s Rest
(edited by mtpelion.4562)
Or in other words .. those game force you to do content you maybe don’t like at all to get your stuff, while GW2 allows you to play whatever content you like and you still can get your stuff.
Not really, as long as you can sell the gear you get, other games you choose the content you enjoy, you get really good at it, and you sell items from what you are good at to get the money for the items that arent in a mode you play.
In those other games most of the better gear is bind on pickups, so if you don’t like raiding you never have the chance to get the better gear.
EVERY MMO is awesome until it is released then its unfinished. A month after release it just sucks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
I don’t even know what people are arguing about here… There aren’t even any opinions in the matter, just facts.
Fact 1: In other MMO’s you must complete the content to get the reward. Gold does not matter for gear because all gear is earned through completing content. You get PvP gear for completing PvP content and PvE gear for completing PvE content. The rarity of your gear is directly tied to the difficulty of the content. (i.e. raiders get gear for raiding, dungeon players get gear for dungeons, pug PvP’ers get pug PvP gear, tournament players get tournament gear.)
Fact 2: In guild wars two there is no reasonable way to get ascended/legendary quality gear without using the TP. You MUST gather gold to purchase the mats you need. You can gather gold in various ways, from your credit card, to dungeon running to farming to playing the TP, but in the end you WILL need to buy the items you want from the TP. This does not include exotic gear.
Or in other words .. those game force you to do content you maybe don’t like at all to get your stuff, while GW2 allows you to play whatever content you like and you still can get your stuff.
Not really, as long as you can sell the gear you get, other games you choose the content you enjoy, you get really good at it, and you sell items from what you are good at to get the money for the items that arent in a mode you play.
In those other games most of the better gear is bind on pickups, so if you don’t like raiding you never have the chance to get the better gear.
the one im thinking of, a decent portion of the endgame gear wasnt bind on equip, though they had a large variety of gears, and some of them were bind on equip. Best in slot wasnt really an accurate term exactly, somethings were best in slot for Doing special weapon abilities, some for low end Dots, some for specific playstyles, etc.
So in that situation you could buy a lot of the endgame gear, however it was pretty expensive. But you also had a lot of different ways to get a large amount of money if you chose to, but it was generally concentrated in the tougher content, or content that was accessible only after some initial investments/planning.
While you 3 or 4 duke it out, I’m just going to leave this here:
Can’t get ascended gear without the trading post? I want to know what on the TP you need for ascended gear.
Dragonite/Empyreal? Nope.
Mithril? drops from playing the game
Iron/darksteel? Richs nodes same place every day.
Silk? drops from playing the game?
Low level cloth? Maybe you will need to buy some of these from the TP, but you can get linen and cotton and wool in low level dungeons at a pretty decent rate.
Rings, Earrings, Backpiece you can get through gameplay, sometimes exclusively through gameplay.
So no, your point isn’t valid at all.
DnT Apply today if you think you can hang with the best of the best
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The meta is changing at an alarming rate!
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The meta is changing at an alarming rate!
GW2 seems to have trouble figuring that out, which I think comes back to the issue that this game is economy focused instead of content focused. Every encounter is designed around how it will affect the economy instead of centered around the reward like in other MMO’s.
I dont think the game is economy-focused. But every single decision regarding rewards, loot, item WILL have an impact on the game economy. The fact is, you really do have to take into consideration the game economy, because a lot is hinged on that. I’d wager a poor economy turns people off faster than poor content. (case in point: count how many threads there are that complain about how a.) the market is screwed b.) difficult it is to get a certain reward vs the lameness of the dungeon, living world, game mechanics, etc.)
But it doesn’t have to be. Rewards in Wildstar, WoW, Rift, etc don’t have any effect on the economy. Gold is used for fluff and if you have bad luck and that is it.
Sounds like GW2 … Gold is also primarily used for fluff. You don’t need gold once you outfit yourself for whatever aspect of the game you want to play. Ascended gear is not needed for anything but the MOST difficult encounters only because of a specific gating stat to boot, not the increase of stats you get from the gear itself. That’s where the difference you speak of is a wash. Other games evolve around ever increasing tiers of more powerful gear. GW2 does not.
People need to understand that FUNDAMENTAL difference between GW2 and everything else before they start QQing about rewards, gold, inflation, economy, etc… most don’t. Once you come to realize that almost ALL game content is balanced around the rare/exotic-level of gear, you come to realize how silly crying about the difficulty of obtaining Ascended gear actually is.
the gear in other games is really just a gating mechanism, or an incentive. It doesnt really matter as much as the fact that their is teired content, it basically allows them to simulate a beat this level and progress to the harder new area thing.
GW2 has gear teirs, but it isnt leading you anywhere. I dont object to that in principle, but the problem is it does lead you, just not into playing the game in the best way. The best way to play gw2 reward wise, is to do the simplest easiest thing that generates the most equivalent value in gold. In other games, the best way to play is to do whatever they decide is the best things to do.Or in other words .. those game force you to do content you maybe don’t like at all to get your stuff, while GW2 allows you to play whatever content you like and you still can get your stuff.
Or you get gear you want for said content via said content.
You keep rehashing this statement like GW2 doesn’t do it … That’s exactly how it works in GW2 … The rewards you get assures you are working towards gear for the content you do by doing that content, all the while allowing players the freedom to do this under their own conditions.
Your complaint is that you don’t DIRECTLY receive SPECIFIC items X doing content Y … the modus operandi of most MMO’s. GW2 isn’t that kind of game, it never will be. It doesn’t make sense to defy the established method, then demand method conform to what satisfies you.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
While you 3 or 4 duke it out, I’m just going to leave this here:
Do they have one debunking the ‘round’ Earth theory as well?
While you 3 or 4 duke it out, I’m just going to leave this here:
Do they have one debunking the ‘round’ Earth theory as well?
No, just the one about the sky being “blue” and of course the heresy that is “gravity”
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
Wow. Just wow. After reading this entire thread I’m just amazed. This is probably the worst thread that I has seen that has so many uninformed responses trying to pose as informed, so many responses committing logical fallacies such as distorting someone’s responses or diverting attention to some nonsensical point, responses from people grasping at real life scenarios and distorting them to fit their viewpoint and this game, responses from people using said scenarios who know absolutely nothing about what’s going on, and so on. It’s just ridiculous. This is probably not the best way to start a post but I’m just so flabbergasted.
John Smith was not incorrect when he stated that some people should learn a bit more about economics. You cannot have a discussion about economic topics unless you have a foundation. This thread is evidence to that fact. A very basic understanding of economics would have shown that inflation is not occurring as that term is rampantly being misused.
Inflation is caused by an increase in the money supply (there’s more to it but since most people do not know what inflation is, I won’t overly complicate this). If everyone in the game received 1,000 gold one day, you’d have inflation. Inflation also affects the economy as a whole and not just specific goods. A basic understanding of the definition would lead you to understand that it’s not a inflation issue but rather a supply and demand issue. I believe one of the first responses pointed this out and John Smith was probably alluding to this.
Isolated price fluctuations in some goods are most likely caused by supply and demand changes. It’s not 100% because like most things, there are always exceptions. An increase in price is caused by an increase in demand, decrease in supply, or some combination of the two. Demand has normally been very high for these items and always exceeded supply. Supply has fluctuated since game release.
What could be causing the changes in supply? Well take a look at all of the previous updates. Notice how many champ farm locations were nerfed? Also notice the lull in content that provides loot? There’s also the drop in players to play ESO, Wildstar, taking a break, and so on. If course that is more observational as I don’t have access to player data.
I also want to point out from another thread that the sell price does not always mean it’s the real price of the item. There was a thread about TP manipulation of precursors where John Smith provided us data for the last 50 or so transactions. If someone wants to provide a link to it then please do as I honestly don’t care enough to search for that thread. The prices people were purchasing precursors for was much lower than what the sell price was. So also don’t dismiss an increase of precursor prices as being caused by overly ambitious sellers.
TL/DR;
Inflation is caused by changes in the money supply, not prices.
Demand and supply likely the reason.
Be aware of TP sellers artificially inflating the sell prices.
I like the “do you have an understanding of economy attitude”.
If you have an understanding of society and mmorpg. We whine and complain about grind and unevenly wealth distribution. “just like in real life too”
well the pool people complain, the rich people just laugh at them. The government keep telling people they are doing a great job. And they do what best for the economy, which really just mean people in power trying to get rich so they don’t care about poor people and wealth distribution.
The moral of story, is people complain. You think there is something wrong with people complaining?
well, there is probably nothing wrong with the economy, but there sure is nothing wrong with people complaining. Because you know… every single labor force complain about their minimum wages. Even people in Sweden complain about it.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
Wow. Just wow. After reading this entire thread I’m just amazed. This is probably the worst thread that I has seen that has so many uninformed responses trying to pose as informed, so many responses committing logical fallacies such as distorting someone’s responses or diverting attention to some nonsensical point, responses from people grasping at real life scenarios and distorting them to fit their viewpoint and this game (meaningful snip)
I like the “do you have an understanding of economy attitude”.
If you have an understanding of society and mmorpg. We whine and complain about grind and unevenly wealth distribution. “just like in real life too”
well the pool people complain, the rich people just laugh at them. The government keep telling people they are doing a great job. And they do what best for the economy, which really just mean people in power trying to get rich so they don’t care about poor people and wealth distribution.
The moral of story, is people complain. You think there is something wrong with people complaining?
well, there is probably nothing wrong with the economy, but there sure is nothing wrong with people complaining. Because you know… every single labor force complain about their minimum wages. Even people in Sweden complain about it.
Ill leave this edit here.
While you 3 or 4 duke it out, I’m just going to leave this here:
Do they have one debunking the ‘round’ Earth theory as well?
No, just the one about the sky being “blue” and of course the heresy that is “gravity”
Wow, my joke must have hit a little close to home to bring out the knives like that.
The point of the thread was that desirable items are rising faster than their ability to earn, and that gold sinks could curb this. IMO its not a correct assumption that gold sinks will solve that problem. But the real problem the OP has, is that desirable items are rising faster than the ability to earn, which is a natural course for top end demanded items, its mathematics.
If an item comes into being one per hour of 500,000 peoples playing time, it would take 20833 days, or 57 years for every one to get one. This means in the first year, this item is only actually marketed to the top 1.7% of earning potential. With new users coming in all the time, it means it wont nessecarily be marketed to the next 1.7% in year two. While this is not absolute because it is not neccarilly true that every body wants it, it essentially means out of the people who do want it, the price will be determined by what the top players think is ok.
So essentially, for an extremely long period of time, a low supply item, will only be marketed to the richest players. just being conservative lets say its marketed to the top 30% of earners.
Now if you realize that hey the top 30% of earners make 10 times or more the amount of say 65% of the population, you realize the prices will not reflect a value that is approachable for many of the players.
And yes it happens irl too.
socialism is not the opposite of an economy, its actually a socioeconomic structure, much like free market is. It is just one of many possible answers to how a group of people agree to deal with economics.
And yes the point of an economy IN A GAME is to foster the type of gameplay you want and make it enjoyable for players. Keep in mind an economy is not just about the TP, but its actually about the rewards systems, the goods and the services that are available, and their relative value. You can have economies without having money at all.
They’re not rising faster than the ability to earn. The recent spike in prices for precursors started in mid-March. Gee, I wonder what happened here and in the following updates that could have possibly impacted precursors in the market.
If you put the effort to farm for gold/drops then you can make enough to buy desirable items. There are people that do not want to do this and pretty much want the items to practically be handed to them. That last bit was a bit of an exaggeration but there are actually quite a number of players that feel that way. People who have a lot of gold worked hard for it and likely spent a lot of time as well.
I won’t address your sections about the drops rates and such since you’re using exaggerated, biased numbers to support your argument. There’s no point in proceeding with it until they’re more realistic.
I never said that socialism was the opposite of an economy. People were making arguments for an economy that would be similar to one under socialism which is I I pointed it out and also mentioned that the current economy within the game is not designed that way.
Yes, you can have economies that don’t involve currency. Bartering first comes to my mind. The market is there as a means to exchange unneeded items food gold which can then be used to purchase other items listed from other people. All of this without having to get the said items from their sources. The benefit to players is that they do not need to go to the source to get what they want and they can make additional gold off unneeded items.
I like the “do you have an understanding of economy attitude”.
If you have an understanding of society and mmorpg. We whine and complain about grind and unevenly wealth distribution. “just like in real life too”
well the pool people complain, the rich people just laugh at them. The government keep telling people they are doing a great job. And they do what best for the economy, which really just mean people in power trying to get rich so they don’t care about poor people and wealth distribution.
The moral of story, is people complain. You think there is something wrong with people complaining?
well, there is probably nothing wrong with the economy, but there sure is nothing wrong with people complaining. Because you know… every single labor force complain about their minimum wages. Even people in Sweden complain about it.
I have an understanding of society and MMORPG’s. People complain (the other word you used is a naughty word on these forums) about everything. It’s not limited to just a few things. Almost everything in this game as been argued for and against. And yes I understand that people complain and I don’t have an issue with it.
However, you missed the point of my post.
The numbers I gave are conservative estimates based on numbers anet released. Which number do you think is exaggerated?
The numbers I gave are conservative estimates based on numbers anet released. Which number do you think is exaggerated?
The top 30% of players make 10 times more than 65% of the population, for example.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
The numbers I gave are conservative estimates based on numbers anet released. Which number do you think is exaggerated?
The top 30% of players make 10 times more than 65% of the population, for example.
its not that crazy a number,
our curve wasnt super great in beta, and things have gotten a lot more disparate since then.
Of course i dont have hard data, but people have brought it up, and JS hasnt claimed their isnt a large disparity in wealth since beta.
even if i scale it back to the top 20% making 10x, it would still take 11 years with a 500k population for the top 20% to get all theirs, thats if new earners dont come in.
point is, in a capitalist system the prices on rare goods are set by the people with the most money. This means even without inflation, in general, any highly desired rare item will be out of reach of the average player for a long time, no matter how skilled they are, or how good they are at anything in the game aside from gold making activities.
This is not really surprising, The best teachers in the world, Engineers, Architects, firefighters, etc. They may be good at their jobs, and their jobs may be important, but they should not expect to get a rolls royce, or a ferrari, or yacht. In real life this is acceptable, because their are other valuable rewards that may not be tied to excessive money.
But a game? well a game is pretty simple, you want to win or progress, once you hit 80 the avenues of progress narrow, and most of the stuff on that path requires a decent amount of gold.
This means even if there is not across the board inflation, its likely the prices of highly desired items will go up as the wealth disparity of the upper 20% and lower 60 goes up. Since supplying these items is generally random, gold will be the only way to achieve these items with any surety.
take a look at chaos of lyssa before the drop boost, do you really think the average person would have been able to compete in money for that any time soon? do you think 1.5k gold is even conceivable expenditure for a large majority of players?
(edited by phys.7689)
The numbers I gave are conservative estimates based on numbers anet released. Which number do you think is exaggerated?
The top 30% of players make 10 times more than 65% of the population, for example.
its not that crazy a number,
our curve wasnt super great in beta, and things have gotten a lot more disparate since then.Of course i dont have hard data, but people have brought it up, and JS hasnt claimed their isnt a large disparity in wealth since beta.
even if i scale it back to the top 20% making 10x, it would still take 11 years with a 500k population for the top 20% to get all theirs, thats if new earners dont come in.
point is, in a capitalist system the prices on rare goods are set by the people with the most money. This means even without inflation, in general, any highly desired rare item will be out of reach of the average player for a long time, no matter how skilled they are, or how good they are at anything in the game aside from gold making activities.
This is not really surprising, The best teachers in the world, Engineers, Architects, firefighters, etc. They may be good at their jobs, and their jobs may be important, but they should not expect to get a rolls royce, or a ferrari, or yacht. In real life this is acceptable, because their are other valuable rewards that may not be tied to excessive money.
But a game? well a game is pretty simple, you want to win or progress, once you hit 80 the avenues of progress narrow, and most of the stuff on that path requires a decent amount of gold.This means even if there is not across the board inflation, its likely the prices of highly desired items will go up as the wealth disparity of the upper 20% and lower 60 goes up. Since supplying these items is generally random, gold will be the only way to achieve these items with any surety.
take a look at chaos of lyssa before the drop boost, do you really think the average person would have been able to compete in money for that any time soon? do you think 1.5k gold is even conceivable expenditure for a large majority of players?
Once the average player is skilled at something, he will make more gold than the average player.
I also think the highest aim in a game is fun, not gold.
Rare and expensive drops also benefit the average player because once they get one, they ARE rich.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
average player for a long time, no matter how skilled they are, or how good they are at anything in the game aside from gold making activities.
Once the average player is skilled at something, he will make more gold than the average player.
I also think the highest aim in a game is fun, not gold.
Rare and expensive drops also benefit the average player because once they get one, they ARE rich.
There are players that run dungeons way faster then me and make much more gold from them than I do. They are much better at it than I am. People also have learned to farm black lion keys and I have no idea, or interest in how to do that quickly. These are examples of people who have gotten proficient at these tasks and make more money than I do at them.
Wanze is better at playing the TP than I am, so it would stand to reason he has more skill than I do at that task just like the examples above show others who are better at other tasks or aspects of the game.
Rare and expensive drops also benefit the average player because once they get one, they ARE rich.
That’s more of an exception. It’s like saying that the lottery benefits the average player b/c if they win they are rich. For example: those that do not get a good drop from the gauntlet would have benefited more by doing something else instead. Thus in trying for a “good” drop the good drop has essentially been more of a detriment to the player. Unfortunately this is more so the case than the other.
Serenity now~Insanity later
average player for a long time, no matter how skilled they are, or how good they are at anything in the game aside from gold making activities.
Once the average player is skilled at something, he will make more gold than the average player.
I also think the highest aim in a game is fun, not gold.
Rare and expensive drops also benefit the average player because once they get one, they ARE rich.
There are players that run dungeons way faster then me and make much more gold from them than I do. They are much better at it than I am. People also have learned to farm black lion keys and I have no idea, or interest in how to do that quickly. These are examples of people who have gotten proficient at these tasks and make more money than I do at them.
Wanze is better at playing the TP than I am, so it would stand to reason he has more skill than I do at that task just like the examples above show others who are better at other tasks or aspects of the game.
the max payout of key running, (changes depending on ticket) but it ends up being like 3-4 gold an hour. The side benefit is you can get a bunch of account bound stuff you cant get easily through other types of play. but there is a max effeciency, and it doesnt really pay well. i have done a bunch of keys and looked at various data.
dungeon running is one of 3 or so main ways to farm, so speaking of that is kind of pointless. The tp playing stands completely out of bounds than all other forms of play, it has a totally different rule set and totally different equation for succcess than anything else in the game.
whats max average payout on fractal level 50?
jumping puzzles?
chest hunting?
completing random dynamic events (as opposed to the massed farmed meta ones)
gathering?
hard path dungeon running?
yeah, if they get better at things they enjoy outside of the main gold farms, they get more money, but it starts bad, and maxes out poorly.
Essentially they cannot compete with the best gold farms, that is why those activities are not the best gold farms.
There are other factors like time, but the main point is that this is the natural end result that this system will play out. The people who have the most money will continue to outpace the others by a fair margin, and even without inflation, low supply items will not be priced for them, for a long time. There is also the fact that the costs of living will effect you more adversly the less you make. (thats probably why they reduced it)
In another system, if they decided they wanted something they could work to that goal slowly, but low supply items will always be priced in ways that a very uncomfortable unless they get good at gold earning specifically. This will only increase with new items, as the disparity grows.
As for the pursuit of fun, If GW2 increases the fun quotient and goals/progression outside of gold at level 80+, it will mitigate the perception that the economies imbalances are that important, but we arent there yet. We dont even know if that is a goal that they wish to achieve.
For the people who have fun getting gold, the game has a robust and unending endgame, with constant shifts in meta, new items, new trends. For other types of play, there is not too many goals, changes, new things for them to aim for.
Rare and expensive drops also benefit the average player because once they get one, they ARE rich.
That’s more of an exception. It’s like saying that the lottery benefits the average player b/c if they win they are rich. For example: those that do not get a good drop from the gauntlet would have benefited more by doing something else instead. Thus in trying for a “good” drop the good drop has essentially been more of a detriment to the player. Unfortunately this is more so the case than the other.
essentially this, and im not saying they should take away the lottery, but its a bad system where winning the lottery is the main hope for upward mobility outside of 3 job types.
Rare and expensive drops also benefit the average player because once they get one, they ARE rich.
That’s more of an exception. It’s like saying that the lottery benefits the average player b/c if they win they are rich. For example: those that do not get a good drop from the gauntlet would have benefited more by doing something else instead. Thus in trying for a “good” drop the good drop has essentially been more of a detriment to the player. Unfortunately this is more so the case than the other.
essentially this, and im not saying they should take away the lottery, but its a bad system where winning the lottery is the main hope for upward mobility outside of 3 job types.
To win the lottery, you have to buy a ticket, to get a rare drop, you dont need to invest any gold.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Opportunity costs…sry I thought it was obvious
Serenity now~Insanity later
Opportunity costs…sry I thought it was obvious
Opportunity costs for rare drops apply to rich and poor players.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Sigh. You’re using biased numbers that could have been filled out of nowhere and then using them into some mathematical equation to argue how the economy/market is. Unless you can actually site your numbers from a credible source, their credibility is very questionable. Your assumption from the result of your equation is also incorrect and goes back to what my posts were about.
You likely do not have a good understanding of basic economic principles and there roles. You argue that the people with the most money control prices when it does not work that way. This thread has been primarily based around precursors and I had referenced a post from John Smith that clearly showed that richest players were not setting the prices.
A basic understanding of economics would show that aggregate demand and supply sets the price of goods. Money supply also plays a role as well. I’ve have held back in my arguments from thorough with my explanations as I don’t feel that I should have to give a lecture on basic economic principles. I’ve also had to dumb down how I write my arguments because if I’m too technical or use but words, my arguments are attacked. This happened to one of John Smith’s posts earlier in this thread.
You’ve been trying to inject some subjective reasoning on how YOU feel the economy should be for the people. You don’t see how an economy benefits the people an feel that people do not benefit from it unless they can readily have access to whichever item they want with ease. People also have not understood exactly how the game’s economy currently functions as well.
You’re also arguing that players have no upward mobility as far as gold. This is far from true as others have pointed out including me. You can do dungeons which will net you quite a bit of gold from completion and drops. I think someone said they average about 60 gold a day for 3 hours of doing dungeon runs of the easier/quicker paths.
There’s also farming particular items that are worth a lot. You can farm crafting materials which people have posted useful explanations of the best locations to do so. You can learn to play the TP and even someone just learning it can make a decent amount of gold. There are several other ways to make gold in this game too. All of which adds up over time.
Prices for precursors have not gone up all that much due to supposed inflation or the mean ole’ rich trying to stick it to the poor. If you look at the trends of sell orders, you’ll see that it has been fairly stable. Any fluctuations, whether small or large, can be explained by looking at what occurred within the game at that time. An example could be nerfs to champ farms, nerfs to drops, an increase of chance for precursors (karka event), and so on.
Because people lack a basic understanding, they do not look at what could cause changes in the demand and supply curves as this is what would most likely affect prices of a small segment of goods. They only look at the prices and mistakenly assume that the increase is because of inflation. They also do not even know what inflation is as well. The fact that this thread would not have gone on for this long had people had this understanding just further proves my point. You do not go into a discussion about quantum mechanics and try to participate without knowledge of the basic principles. You also do not try to argue things about that subject by using arguments that defer from widely accepted, basic principles of said subject area.
I’m sure that this post is probably all over the place as I’m not at a computer and have been writing this off and on over the course of several hours. My basic argument is that if people had a basic understanding of economics, we would not be having this discussion. I’ve pretty much come to the point where I’m just regurgitating my same arguments over and over and over and over and over. I see this discussion will go nowhere just like the discussions about people who feel they should be entitled to additional items from new collector/hero editions if the game that were not included in the version that they had purchased.
@ Wanze Yes, and both should know lotteries are not practical methods of acquisition.
Serenity now~Insanity later
Sigh. You’re using biased numbers that could have been filled out of nowhere and then using them into some mathematical equation to argue how the economy/market is.
i dont even really get your point, are you contending that items with high demand, and low supply will not be marketed to the wealthy? because that is the basic premise of what i am saying.
It is totally logical, and makes total sense within this economy, that the people with more money are the market for rare, sought after items. in previous posts you said this is normal and expected. Mathematics is about relationships, you can plug in different numbers but the relationships are the same.
given that it is normal and expected, if the wealth curve is constructed in certain ways, these items will be disproportionally difficult, and time consuming for regular players to get.
If 50% of the population earns 40 gold per week
and 20% of the population earns 400 gold or more per week
and an item is rare enough that only 1.8% of the population can get one per year, who do you think thats items price will be aimed at? what the 40 gold per week player thinks is fair, or what the 400+ gold player thinks is fair?
As far as having no data, JS specifically said, try to come up with reasonable logic, because we have no data, this means we have to assume things, to get a better understanding, By coming up with data, you can test your hypothesis by comparing it to data, and see how the changes in that data change the relationships. You can figure what data is the most relevant. Its pointless to say you have no data in science. You still hypothesize, then you test, or approximate, and repeat the process.
With these mathematical relationships, you can then figure out at what supply would a high demand item, be able to be priced so that the people in a certain segment of the wealth gap arent the target.
but to be perfectly honest, the problem is more one of philosophy, the current descsion is gold earning is the meter of success as far as itemization goes. As long as this is the case, the most desired items with low supply will always be out of the reach of most players(the ones who dont play gold focused), until the demand drops.
average player for a long time, no matter how skilled they are, or how good they are at anything in the game aside from gold making activities.
Once the average player is skilled at something, he will make more gold than the average player.
I also think the highest aim in a game is fun, not gold.
Rare and expensive drops also benefit the average player because once they get one, they ARE rich.
There are players that run dungeons way faster then me and make much more gold from them than I do. They are much better at it than I am. People also have learned to farm black lion keys and I have no idea, or interest in how to do that quickly. These are examples of people who have gotten proficient at these tasks and make more money than I do at them.
Wanze is better at playing the TP than I am, so it would stand to reason he has more skill than I do at that task just like the examples above show others who are better at other tasks or aspects of the game.
(snip)
You completely missed or ignored the point of my post. try again
You completely missed or ignored the point of my post. try again
Since you never stated a point in your post I’ll just infer one. You believe like the TP, dungeons shouldn’t have a limit on how many times you can do it a day for the full reward? Because that’s the HUGE difference between the 2.
Pinnacle of Responsibility[Mom]-Yaks Bend
Unstable Shield, Unstable Light
Unstable Shield, Unstable Light
(edited by sirflamesword.3896)
You completely missed or ignored the point of my post. try again
Since you never stated a point in your post I’ll just infer one. You believe like the TP, dungeons shouldn’t have a limit on how many times you can do it a day for the full reward? Because that’s the HUGE difference between the 2.
Actually an even bigger difference between TP and dungeons, one of them guarantees you a reward with zero possible loses. The other one has no guarantee, the only real guarantee is that you WILL lose a lot of gold at some point, assuming you don’t give up from failing. There is no guarantees for success aka the skill floor for TP is significantly higher and extremely costly than running dungeons.
TL;DR
Dungeons as long as you have a functional brain, you can complete it and gain your gold, TP on the other hand nothing is certain.
As u know im pro. ~Tomonobu Itagaki
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
You completely missed or ignored the point of my post. try again
Since you never stated a point in your post I’ll just infer one. You believe like the TP, dungeons shouldn’t have a limit on how many times you can do it a day for the full reward? Because that’s the HUGE difference between the 2.
WHOOSH!! Feel the breeze.
No, his point was players are proficient at different aspects of the game. Therefore it’s silly to “punish” a player for being better at one aspect than you. And if you advocate punishing one type of skilled play, then you are advocating punishing anybody skilled at any aspect of the game, including ones you may be good at.
All ANet can do to control inflation is control the rate rewards are injected into the game. That is why events and dungeons have time gates for the “best” reward. That’s why there is DR on farms. All of those changes are to slow the amount of gold and items flowing into the game.
The TP has no limits because the TP doesn’t create rewards, it simply shifts existing coin and items from one player to another. If you understand both they psychological aspect of the average TP user and are good at reading the “runes” of may be coming down the pike then you can outwit the average TP user and “harvest” the gold that they are willing to throw away due to their TP habits.
Making loads of money using the TP is a skill, just like speedrunning. Only difference is speedrunners are receiving direct rewards while the TP player is “farming” them from players too disinterested to maximize their money selling those items on the TP.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
So we went from discussing inflation back to the old standby of “fair” earning per hour.
If Wanze makes a ton of money per week from players not willing to be smart about buying and selling on the TP, good for him.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
So we went from discussing inflation back to the old standby of “fair” earning per hour.
If Wanze makes a ton of money per week from players not willing to be smart about buying and selling on the TP, good for him.
but it is not fair because for some reason video games specifically MMO have always been a bastion of fairness.
As u know im pro. ~Tomonobu Itagaki
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
but it is not fair because for some reason video games specifically MMO have always been a bastion of fairness.
Just wondering if my sarcasm detector is broken, was this serious?
“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
So we went from discussing inflation back to the old standby of “fair” earning per hour.
If Wanze makes a ton of money per week from players not willing to be smart about buying and selling on the TP, good for him.
but it is not fair because for some reason video games specifically MMO have always been a bastion of fairness.
[sardonic]
I think it’s more EGO self gratification. Only LEET players with SKILZ should earn the most and get the best items. Therefore displaying them proudly on your character is proof of your greatness. Any game play that opposes that is a sign of the game being broken. Allowing players to buy such an item with earnings from sources that aren’t rewards from being a LEET player with SKILZ tarnishes the rep of that item which in turn diminishes their use as symbol of a players greatness.
So therefore it burns their buns when a player can earn money doing an activity that doesn’t highlight SKILZ. But it turns out that it’s because these LEET players are actually the ones throwing their “excess” gold to those who understand how to gather it for themselves on the TP.
So sure, your skills rescued the Queen in record time but all that loot you simply dumped onto the TP as fast as possible (kitten error selling bug slowing you down), well a TP master was able to turn a profit on them because you couldn’t be bothered to spend the 5 minutes earning it yourself. It’s the age old Brains vs Brawn rivalry. And like the tech industry in the real world, brains win. And this ticks off brawn to no end.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
(edited by Behellagh.1468)
So we went from discussing inflation back to the old standby of “fair” earning per hour.
If Wanze makes a ton of money per week from players not willing to be smart about buying and selling on the TP, good for him.
actually im not advocating universal earning per hour, but i dont know if the incentives here are right, in normal capitalism, in theory the consumer is rewarded by getting better quality products for cheaper, and innovation, in this system it really isnt the case. The reason we need 300 silk a day, was because we had too much silk, the reason we had 10000 candy corn recipes is because we had too much corn, the reason we get drops nerfed, is because people are too good at farming. TP players essentially take money from people wanting speed/unaware of value
The general user does not benefit from most of the highly profitable ways of playing the game. The game just readjusts, with everyone getting less.
and thats aside from the whole fact that the system will always incentize whatever play is the easiest/profitable/effecient/repeatable way to earn gold
So we went from discussing inflation back to the old standby of “fair” earning per hour.
If Wanze makes a ton of money per week from players not willing to be smart about buying and selling on the TP, good for him.
but it is not fair because for some reason video games specifically MMO have always been a bastion of fairness.
[sardonic]
I think it’s more EGO self gratification. Only LEET players with SKILZ should earn the most and get the best items. Therefore displaying them proudly on your character is proof of your greatness. Any game play that opposes that is a sign of the game being broken. Allowing players to buy such an item with earnings from sources that aren’t rewards from being a LEET player with SKILZ tarnishes the rep of that item which in turn diminishes their use as symbol of a players greatness.
So therefore it burns their buns when a player can earn money doing an activity that doesn’t highlight SKILZ. But it turns out that it’s because these LEET players are actually the ones throwing their “excess” gold to those who understand how to gather it for themselves on the TP.
So sure, your skills rescued the Queen in record time but all that loot you simply dumped onto the TP as fast as possible (kitten error selling bug slowing you down), well a TP master was able to turn a profit on them because you couldn’t be bothered to spend the 5 minutes earning it yourself. It’s the age old Brains vs Brawn rivalry. And like the tech industry in the real world, brains win. And this ticks off brawn to no end.
i dont believe every reward should be focused on leet player with skills, but they should have some things that you can best obtain by reaching that level. I think that ideally, they would reward different players diffierently appropriate to their chosen playstyles, and have the rewards get better as you progress in that content, whether that be through leet skills, time put in, or ingenuity.
An even more ideal structure would some how reward players for adding value to the game, but that would be complex to design.
But to the point of the thread, rare items will always be expensive with this system, and will generally move out of reach until the people with greater resources get theirs first, essentially lowering demand. It doesnt have to be inflation for this to occur. In fact such items can go up in value even while general earning and many other items stay the same or maintain their value.
This is basically the way this system will express itself given the right circumstances.