Guild Wars 2

So this was added. Purchased with karma. It spits out items, including ones that give karma. Less than you spent on the boxes, but still a significant amount.

It also spits out a junk item. An item that has exactly one use: Vendor it, creating gold.

Lots of people have karma stashes with nothing to spend them on. That, and this is a way to spend karma on Obsidian shards without needing the temple of balthazar to be open. So people will be dumping their karma into these boxes. Creating quite a lot of gold, which will get fed into the economy causing inflation.

If ANET even trying to fight inflation ?

Usually you can’t put items bought with karma on the TP. As for the contents, there has already been a lot of requests to create better chances of getting lodestones than currently exist.

DaShi.1368:

Usually you can’t put items bought with karma on the TP. As for the contents, there has already been a lot of requests to create better chances of getting lodestones than currently exist.

You may notice that I didn’t complain about lodestones. That’s because tradable stuff is not a problem. Mail trading just shifts gold around, it doesn’t create any. Using the trading post sinks gold through the fees, so it reduces inflation.

Selling stuff to a vendor creates gold. The creation of gold is the biggest source of inflation. Which is why I only complained about the Unidentifiable Object. The junk item. The item that can’t be used for anything but selling it to the vendor. The item that only exists to create gold.

how much gold does it sell for?

So do junk drops. This is not something to sound the panic alarms over.

DaShi.1368:

So do junk drops. This is not something to sound the panic alarms over.

Well, I think the OP’s point is since many people will start to dump karma, there will be a sudden influx of gold into the economy, which may cause inflation.

I’ve already invested in material goods, so I"m not too worried =)

Well, I think a far more significant amount of gold is created from dungeons, but yeah, there will be some inflation. The real item I’m worried about is the one that costs 1 laurel and gives 30% more gold from monster kills for an hour (assuming this applies to dungeon bosses like omnom bar). Especially because if I want the endless tonic or ascended amulet I’ll have to forgo it while others take advantage of it (an unfair decision in my opinion).

So I just bought a couple of these boxes and turns out those evil inflation causing “Unidentifiable Objects” only sell for 1s each….

Seriously dude? Don’t you have anything better to complain about? From what I see, the new 30% coin booster and extra 20% coin infusion would cause way more inflation than that simple vendor junk.

You know what, I have a feeling OP is a troll.

Actually, I think the junk item sells for 50c each, but you get 1-5 of them per open (wiki drop research implies an average of 3 per opening). That’s 1.5s per box. From my openings, I averaged about 25% return on my karma, so the boxes end up being about 3600 karma each. So you effectively have a conversion rate of 24 karma = 1 copper or 240,000 karma = 1 gold. With these rates, a million karma is worth roughly 4 gold.

Can any karma item be placed in the mystic forge or salvaged? If so, that’s approximately 2/3 or 1/2 the existing rate for converting karma into coin based on quick envelope math.

Would an omnomberry bar, the booster, and 4 infusions stack?

The drop rate of the boxes, from what I have seen so far, would appear to be deflationary – not inflationary – in the aggregate.

Ensign.2189:

The drop rate of the boxes, from what I have seen so far, would appear to be deflationary – not inflationary – in the aggregate.

Please explain. Is there another, more efficient way to convert karma into gold?

Ursan.7846:

Please explain. Is there another, more efficient way to convert karma into gold?

The price level of goods on the trading post is directly related to the ratio of gold production to goods production; that is P is proportional to M/Y.

Opening the boxes generates raw gold (increases M, inflationary), but also produces lodestones (increases Y, deflationary). The effect on the aggregate price level, from that information alone, is indeterminate.

To anticipate inflation/deflation, we have to guess if the M/Y of the new output is greater or less than the M/Y of the prior economy. If the new M/Y is greater than the prior one, the net effect is inflationary; if the new M/Y is less than the prior, it is deflationary.

The M/Y from the boxes seems to be somewhere between 1/8 and 1/10; and I’m pretty confident that the M/Y of the greater economy is much, much greater than 1/6.

That means that the boxes are adding more goods, proportionally, to the trading post than raw money from selling unidentifiable objects, which will, on the whole, drive prices down.

Ensign.2189:

Ursan.7846:

Please explain. Is there another, more efficient way to convert karma into gold?

The price level of goods on the trading post is directly related to the ratio of gold production to goods production; that is P is proportional to M/Y.

Opening the boxes generates raw gold (increases M, inflationary), but also produces lodestones (increases Y, deflationary). The effect on the aggregate price level, from that information alone, is indeterminate.

To anticipate inflation/deflation, we have to guess if the M/Y of the new output is greater or less than the M/Y of the prior economy. If the new M/Y is greater than the prior one, the net effect is inflationary; if the new M/Y is less than the prior, it is deflationary.

The M/Y from the boxes seems to be somewhere between 1/8 and 1/10; and I’m pretty confident that the M/Y of the greater economy is much, much greater than 1/6.

That means that the boxes are adding more goods, proportionally, to the trading post than raw money from selling unidentifiable objects, which will, on the whole, drive prices down.

That would be correct. With more items that are sold, it will create less demand. I am sure that this is part of the “Help” to lower the prices on high mats that people are buying up like crazy/hoarding to turn a profit on.

Personally, I think the drop rates also have increased across the board with the new update. Makes me wonder if they also fixed the magic find where I am actually getting better drops. Who knows.

Ensign.2189:

Ursan.7846:

Please explain. Is there another, more efficient way to convert karma into gold?

The price level of goods on the trading post is directly related to the ratio of gold production to goods production; that is P is proportional to M/Y.

Opening the boxes generates raw gold (increases M, inflationary), but also produces lodestones (increases Y, deflationary). The effect on the aggregate price level, from that information alone, is indeterminate.

To anticipate inflation/deflation, we have to guess if the M/Y of the new output is greater or less than the M/Y of the prior economy. If the new M/Y is greater than the prior one, the net effect is inflationary; if the new M/Y is less than the prior, it is deflationary.

The M/Y from the boxes seems to be somewhere between 1/8 and 1/10; and I’m pretty confident that the M/Y of the greater economy is much, much greater than 1/6.

That means that the boxes are adding more goods, proportionally, to the trading post than raw money from selling unidentifiable objects, which will, on the whole, drive prices down.

I don’t think we’re talking about the same thing. OP isn’t talking about Lodestone prices. I feel as he’s talking about the inflation of gold in general.

The game just introduced a new gold tap into the game, without any significant gold sinks that I can think of. Naturally, gold will inflate. This isn’t in relation to just Lodestones, but in relation to the overall economy since you’re adding gold to the game (via selling junk to NPC vendors).

Of course it may very well be that this new tap is minor and won’t impact the economy in any significant way as well.

Ensign.2189:

Ursan.7846:

Please explain. Is there another, more efficient way to convert karma into gold?

The price level of goods on the trading post is directly related to the ratio of gold production to goods production; that is P is proportional to M/Y.

Opening the boxes generates raw gold (increases M, inflationary), but also produces lodestones (increases Y, deflationary). The effect on the aggregate price level, from that information alone, is indeterminate.

To anticipate inflation/deflation, we have to guess if the M/Y of the new output is greater or less than the M/Y of the prior economy. If the new M/Y is greater than the prior one, the net effect is inflationary; if the new M/Y is less than the prior, it is deflationary.

The M/Y from the boxes seems to be somewhere between 1/8 and 1/10; and I’m pretty confident that the M/Y of the greater economy is much, much greater than 1/6.

That means that the boxes are adding more goods, proportionally, to the trading post than raw money from selling unidentifiable objects, which will, on the whole, drive prices down.

The issue with this logic is that lodestone prices are not fixed. The increase in lodestones will cause the price for both lodestones and cores (which are frequently promoted to lodestones) to fall. Will the increased number of transactions outweigh the tax loss from the reduced price for all (not just the new item) lodestones? Even if it outweighs that impact, considering the drop rate for the lodestones, the number of junk items created and sold to vendor will likely outweigh the any increases in total tax paid. On top of that, a reduction in lodestone prices without modifying the cores market could reduce the rate at which core promotion is profitable. That would have an inflationary pressure as promoting cores to lodestones has a direct 25.6s currency reduction from the purchase price of elonian wine.

All told, I would expect the inflationary pressures from the orrian jewelry box to significantly outweigh the deflationary pressures. That said, the net effect on the entire money supply is likely to be trivial. If there is net inflation from this patch, it’s more likely to be as a result of changes to heavy moldy bags, T6 mats in Orr, and coin infusions/boosters.

Ursan.7846:

I don’t think we’re talking about the same thing. OP isn’t talking about Lodestone prices. I feel as he’s talking about the inflation of gold in general.

The game just introduced a new gold tap into the game, without any significant gold sinks that I can think of. Naturally, gold will inflate. This isn’t in relation to just Lodestones, but in relation to the overall economy since you’re adding gold to the game (via selling junk to NPC vendors).

Of course it may very well be that this new tap is minor and won’t impact the economy in any significant way as well.

Ensign.2189 does have a point. The trading post fees are a gold sink. Lodestones will be traded, so there is an accompanying goldsink.
Thing is, it’s a gold sink that will reduce in effectiveness as Lodestone prices drop because ANET just increased their supply.

Phoenixfudge.5290:

So I just bought a couple of these boxes and turns out those evil inflation causing “Unidentifiable Objects” only sell for 1s each….

Multiply that by the number you get, then reevaluate your conclusion.

All my guildmates who dumped their karma into jewlery boxes earned at least 2 gold from the unidentifible objects.

Seriously dude? Don’t you have anything better to complain about? From what I see, the new 30% coin booster and extra 20% coin infusion would cause way more inflation than that simple vendor junk.

I didn’t know about those. They sound like they could be worse.

Ensign’s point isn’t just about the gold sink of the TP, it’s also the fact that new goods are introduced by the same mechanism that is introducing the additional gold. The introduction of this extra supply has a deflationary effect on the economy that may or may not counter the inflationary effect of the extra money that has been added.

Well, I used about 1 mil karma, and got back 5g (which is 5g created artificially), and another 10g worth of lodestones (which I sell to other players on TP, obviously, not considered added gold to the game).

So you shouldn’t be concerned, I mean, what’s 5g? Like an hour of farming

Ursan.7846:

Ensign.2189:

The drop rate of the boxes, from what I have seen so far, would appear to be deflationary – not inflationary – in the aggregate.

Please explain. Is there another, more efficient way to convert karma into gold?

Buy exotic karma armor in orr and MF them. 160K karma will get you an exotic armor piece. But seeing how this doesn’t create gold, as it’s sold on the TP…my post is probably irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Syeria.4812:

The issue with this logic is that lodestone prices are not fixed.

The system is complicated with lots of higher order effects. For example, the higher supply of lodestones will lead to higher prices in other commodities that are coupled with lodestones, such as T5 and T6 materials. Why? Because those lodestones were used in recipes, which directly drop in price with the price of lodestones. But as those prices drop, and demand increases from the lower price, the demand for other materials used in those recipes will increase as well – without a corresponding increase in supply.

So some fraction of the reduction in prices from more accessible lodestones will show up as a price increase in other materials.

Every big change in the economy has not only the direct impact, but sends ripples through every other market as well. Adding the boxes was a big change. As it is adding both gold (which, on its own, would be inflationary) and lodestones (which, on their own, would be deflationary) to the economy, its net effect is subject to a lot of nuance, which you and other people have started to touch on in this thread.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Ursan.7846:

I don’t think we’re talking about the same thing. OP isn’t talking about Lodestone prices. I feel as he’s talking about the inflation of gold in general.

The game just introduced a new gold tap into the game, without any significant gold sinks that I can think of. Naturally, gold will inflate. This isn’t in relation to just Lodestones, but in relation to the overall economy since you’re adding gold to the game (via selling junk to NPC vendors).

Of course it may very well be that this new tap is minor and won’t impact the economy in any significant way as well.

Ensign.2189 does have a point. The trading post fees are a gold sink. Lodestones will be traded, so there is an accompanying goldsink.
Thing is, it’s a gold sink that will reduce in effectiveness as Lodestone prices drop because ANET just increased their supply.

Phoenixfudge.5290:

So I just bought a couple of these boxes and turns out those evil inflation causing “Unidentifiable Objects” only sell for 1s each….

Multiply that by the number you get, then reevaluate your conclusion.

All my guildmates who dumped their karma into jewlery boxes earned at least 2 gold from the unidentifible objects.

Seriously dude? Don’t you have anything better to complain about? From what I see, the new 30% coin booster and extra 20% coin infusion would cause way more inflation than that simple vendor junk.

I didn’t know about those. They sound like they could be worse.

Yeah, I made a whopping 3s selling the vendor junk you’re complaining about. Granted, I only bought about 3 of the boxes.

However, 2g from selling those? 2g is nothing. People get more in 20 minutes farming COF. The vendor junk from these boxes aren’t nearly contributing to the inflation as dungeons are.

I think I will make about 3g from about 800k karma on the junk.

I doubt inflation is coming. The money supply is not the only thing at play. There’s an increase of supply on a lot of stuff as well.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

I think I will make about 3g from about 800k karma on the junk.

I doubt inflation is coming. The money supply is not the only thing at play. There’s an increase of supply on a lot of stuff as well.

Indeed. Those boxes drop a lot of T6 stuff on the TP which leads to a decrease of prices. All this T6 will also lead to an increase of money sinked through trades. I actually think the unID object just makes a player feel richer while the box on average sinks more money than it creates.

Just my guess though.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

So this was added. Purchased with karma. It spits out items, including ones that give karma. Less than you spent on the boxes, but still a significant amount.

It also spits out a junk item. An item that has exactly one use: Vendor it, creating gold.

Lots of people have karma stashes with nothing to spend them on. That, and this is a way to spend karma on Obsidian shards without needing the temple of balthazar to be open. So people will be dumping their karma into these boxes. Creating quite a lot of gold, which will get fed into the economy causing inflation.

If ANET even trying to fight inflation ?

Inflation is good at killing wealth gaps. BRING IT ON!

I see so much misinformation in this thread, I’m starting to believe it’s populated by lodestone traders.

You get a lot more lodestones from those boxes than what is stated in this thread.

And with the proper karma buffs, those boxes GIVE BACK about 40 percent of the karma that you spent on them. Tested and tried with approximately 100 boxes.

Buttercup.5871:

I see so much misinformation in this thread, I’m starting to believe it’s populated by lodestone traders.

You get a lot more lodestones from those boxes than what is stated in this thread.

And with the proper karma buffs, those boxes GIVE BACK about 40 percent of the karma that you spent on them. Tested and tried with approximately 100 boxes.

I’m not sure what “misinformation” you’re talking about.

According to the wiki drop research (about 2500 data points right now) you receive back approximately 35% of the spent karma (using no buffs, no redoing the math to fix for buffs) and there’s approximately a 3% drop rate for a lodestone of any type (calculated manually, the wiki’s auto-calculations are useless because of the methodology). Of those lodestones, the majority have been of the three “cheap” types (glacial, crystal, and molten). That works out to about 10 lodestones per million karma (assuming reinvesting of karma gains) and 5g in garbage drops.

Since the average (non-wvw) level 80 event gives less than 400 karma (let’s call it 500 with buffs since the average player likely will not be using many, if any, buffs) you’re looking at a lodestone and 50s per 200 events. That means that, on average, to attain a particular lodestone, a player will have to complete 1200 events and will earn 3g in junk drops. Assuming an extremely generous 5 minutes per event, that’s 100 hours of play per lodestone of a given type, and 16 hours 40 minutes per generic lodestone.