In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
Is it against the rules to WTS?
You might get banned for spamming, if someone reports you. Or you might find that the only buyer that sees your spam demands you send the item first, then never sends you the gold. ANET might ban the other person, but they will never return your item.
My advise for you is that your plan sounds very risky. You’re either gambling on something random*, which is a bad idea. Or you’re relying on something that somehow hasn’t become public knowledge yet, meaning your trade spam is likely to be undercut at the trading post when the method becomes public. Or you have overlooked one very important detail, and your method isn’t profitable.
Either way, returns like that sound far too good to be true.
*If you average any GW2 gambling method over infinite rolls, the best you can possibly get is to break even.
Crazy idea:
Could a person start their own guild ( I don’t know what it takes to do this, maybe costs $), invite the potential WTS partner to the guild, put the item for sale in the guild bank, give the trader permission to deposit items but not withdraw, have them deposit their payment, you remove the payment, then give them access to withdraw the item you are selling them, then kick them from your “guild?” I know this sounds silly, but isn’t it a more secure possibility?
BTW, I don’t know what the costs are for starting a guild or having a guild bank, etc. but for a serious WTS trader, wouldn’t it be worth the cost to have a Perma-secure trading hub for yourself?
Crazy idea:
Could a person start their own guild ( I don’t know what it takes to do this, maybe costs $), invite the potential WTS partner to the guild, put the item for sale in the guild bank, give the trader permission to deposit items but not withdraw, have them deposit their payment, you remove the payment, then give them access to withdraw the item you are selling them, then kick them from your “guild?” I know this sounds silly, but isn’t it a more secure possibility?
BTW, I don’t know what the costs are for starting a guild or having a guild bank, etc. but for a serious WTS trader, wouldn’t it be worth the cost to have a Perma-secure trading hub for yourself?
How does this prevent the guild leader from just taking the funds after the other guy deposits them?
[SFD] – Maguuma
Crazy idea:
…have them deposit their payment, you remove the payment, then give them access to withdraw the item you are selling them, then kick them from your “guild?” I know this sounds silly, but isn’t it a more secure possibility?
BTW, I don’t know what the costs are for starting a guild or having a guild bank, etc. but for a serious WTS trader, wouldn’t it be worth the cost to have a Perma-secure trading hub for yourself?
That idea adds extra complexity while solving nothing. The risk of scams involving mail trades is that one player has to give the other player what they are offering without any guarantee that the other player will give them what was promised.
Your method has the same trust issue as you demanding the person gives you payment before you hand over the goods: The other person needs to trust you enough to go first.
The person sending their stuff second is never at risk of being left with nothing.
Unless a trade window similar to WoW is introduced you are open to either the buyer or seller scamming you. Also the chat filter prohibits you from spamming so all in all it might not be illegal but I’d say you’d be wasting you time.
Commander, Malicious Mischief [MM] ,Gandara
[MM] recruiting currently
[MM] recruiting currently
Unless a trade window similar to WoW is introduced you are open to either the buyer or seller scamming you. Also the chat filter prohibits you from spamming so all in all it might not be illegal but I’d say you’d be wasting you time.
It’s funny, because a very similar “trade window” existed in the original Guild Wars.
It’s a shame how many useful features from GW1 didn’t make it to GW2.
And this is entirely about ArenaNet’s desire to have a hand in the market. They’re intent on taking gold out of the economy to make gem → gold conversions seem better.
Crazy idea:
Could a person start their own guild ( I don’t know what it takes to do this, maybe costs $), invite the potential WTS partner to the guild, put the item for sale in the guild bank, give the trader permission to deposit items but not withdraw, have them deposit their payment, you remove the payment, then give them access to withdraw the item you are selling them, then kick them from your “guild?” I know this sounds silly, but isn’t it a more secure possibility?
BTW, I don’t know what the costs are for starting a guild or having a guild bank, etc. but for a serious WTS trader, wouldn’t it be worth the cost to have a Perma-secure trading hub for yourself?
You do know that your method is no different from telling the guy to mail you gold then you mailing him the item right?
To the OP, if im the buyer, i’d always want the guy to mail me the item. If you don’t trust me, no biggie ill just get it from the TP. If you are doing it for the extra profit (vs selling on TP), you do know that not many ppl will take such a big risk for trying to save <15% discount on an item. The only way this would work is if you want to sell the item fast by pricing in between the lowest seller and highest offer, which will result in less desirable amount of total profit
(edited by lunartic.3647)
It’s funny, because a very similar “trade window” existed in the original Guild Wars.
It’s a shame how many useful features from GW1 didn’t make it to GW2.
And this is entirely about ArenaNet’s desire to have a hand in the market. They’re intent on taking gold out of the economy to make gem -> gold conversions seem better.
The devs made a conscious decision not to include direct trading. The biggest reason why there’s no direct trade window is because it can be used to scam people. It is impossible to scam people on the BLT, however.
Direct trade in GW2 is much more vulnerable to scamming, the alternative being to give Anet 15% of every trade. Minos has it right.
They want you to use BLT. It’s a huge gold sink, if they had trading this wouldn’t be possible.
Unless a trade window similar to WoW is introduced you are open to either the buyer or seller scamming you. Also the chat filter prohibits you from spamming so all in all it might not be illegal but I’d say you’d be wasting you time.
It’s funny, because a very similar “trade window” existed in the original Guild Wars.
It’s a shame how many useful features from GW1 didn’t make it to GW2.
The trade window not coming across is easily understood. With no trade window, there is very little trade spam.
With the GW1 trade window, there was a lot of trade spam and ANET had a lot of trouble keeping it in the trade channel.
Forget scamming. The reduction in trade spam alone justifies the lack of a trade window. As for the gold sink of the trading post, that is essential to keep inflation down in the long term.
The trade window not coming across is easily understood. With no trade window, there is very little trade spam.
That’s a tautology. In general, the people who want direct trading know there is going to be spam and are willing to tolerate it because the ability to trade outweighs the annoyance caused by spam.
With the GW1 trade window, there was a lot of trade spam and ANET had a lot of trouble keeping it in the trade channel.
Actually, the GW1 chat window automatically directs 99% of trade spam based on the keyphrases “wtb” and “wts” which players actually use. If you turn off the trade channel, you would see virtually no trade spam. You really should try out GW1 sometime.
It’s funny, because a very similar “trade window” existed in the original Guild Wars.
It’s a shame how many useful features from GW1 didn’t make it to GW2.
And this is entirely about ArenaNet’s desire to have a hand in the market. They’re intent on taking gold out of the economy to make gem -> gold conversions seem better.
The devs made a conscious decision not to include direct trading. The biggest reason why there’s no direct trade window is because it can be used to scam people. It is impossible to scam people on the BLT, however.
It is impossible to scam a person with a WOW like trade window.
It’s funny, because a very similar “trade window” existed in the original Guild Wars.
It’s a shame how many useful features from GW1 didn’t make it to GW2.
And this is entirely about ArenaNet’s desire to have a hand in the market. They’re intent on taking gold out of the economy to make gem -> gold conversions seem better.
The devs made a conscious decision not to include direct trading. The biggest reason why there’s no direct trade window is because it can be used to scam people. It is impossible to scam people on the BLT, however.
It is impossible to scam a person with a WOW like trade window.
Well, list the advantages of a trade window then.
Aside from “able to avoid sales tax” there is really none. The sales tax is an important gold sink. Whether it’s good or not can be debated (I think it’s necessary), but does not take away from the functionality of the trading post.
It’s funny, because a very similar “trade window” existed in the original Guild Wars.
It’s a shame how many useful features from GW1 didn’t make it to GW2.
And this is entirely about ArenaNet’s desire to have a hand in the market. They’re intent on taking gold out of the economy to make gem -> gold conversions seem better.
The devs made a conscious decision not to include direct trading. The biggest reason why there’s no direct trade window is because it can be used to scam people. It is impossible to scam people on the BLT, however.
It is impossible to scam a person with a WOW like trade window.
Well, list the advantages of a trade window then.
Aside from “able to avoid sales tax” there is really none. The sales tax is an important gold sink. Whether it’s good or not can be debated (I think it’s necessary), but does not take away from the functionality of the trading post.
I am not arguing for or against, i am just pointing out that a wow style trade system is scam proof per say since there is no issue of trust.
It’s funny, because a very similar “trade window” existed in the original Guild Wars.
It’s a shame how many useful features from GW1 didn’t make it to GW2.
And this is entirely about ArenaNet’s desire to have a hand in the market. They’re intent on taking gold out of the economy to make gem -> gold conversions seem better.
The devs made a conscious decision not to include direct trading. The biggest reason why there’s no direct trade window is because it can be used to scam people. It is impossible to scam people on the BLT, however.
It is impossible to scam a person with a WOW like trade window.
Well, list the advantages of a trade window then.
Aside from “able to avoid sales tax” there is really none. The sales tax is an important gold sink. Whether it’s good or not can be debated (I think it’s necessary), but does not take away from the functionality of the trading post.
I am not arguing for or against, i am just pointing out that a wow style trade system is scam proof per say since there is no issue of trust.
Lets say player A is trading item X, with player B who is trading item Y.
A believe X is of equal value to Y, which is why he’s making the trade. However, if he did more research, he would find out out X is double the market value of Y, and that if he sold X on the global market and bought Y with that money, he’d have Y + extra money. A just screwed himself out of some money, or B convinced A somehow to screw himself out of money.
There’s many many situations where players who aren’t knowledgable about certain things can get screwed out of things. Forcing everything to go through the trading posts ensures that NOTHING of this nature can happen at all.
It’s funny, because a very similar “trade window” existed in the original Guild Wars.
It’s a shame how many useful features from GW1 didn’t make it to GW2.
And this is entirely about ArenaNet’s desire to have a hand in the market. They’re intent on taking gold out of the economy to make gem -> gold conversions seem better.
The devs made a conscious decision not to include direct trading. The biggest reason why there’s no direct trade window is because it can be used to scam people. It is impossible to scam people on the BLT, however.
It is impossible to scam a person with a WOW like trade window.
Well, list the advantages of a trade window then.
Aside from “able to avoid sales tax” there is really none. The sales tax is an important gold sink. Whether it’s good or not can be debated (I think it’s necessary), but does not take away from the functionality of the trading post.
I am not arguing for or against, i am just pointing out that a wow style trade system is scam proof per say since there is no issue of trust.
Lets say player A is trading item X, with player B who is trading item Y.
A believe X is of equal value to Y, which is why he’s making the trade. However, if he did more research, he would find out out X is double the market value of Y, and that if he sold X on the global market and bought Y with that money, he’d have Y + extra money. A just screwed himself out of some money, or B convinced A somehow to screw himself out of money.
There’s many many situations where players who aren’t knowledgable about certain things can get screwed out of things. Forcing everything to go through the trading posts ensures that NOTHING of this nature can happen at all.
Say i place a buy order for dusk for 25 G for kittens and giggles, some noob sees it since it is the only buy offer up at the time and thinks its a good deal not reading the rest of the the TP info like fact that it is being listed for 300G. I mean he is noob and does not want to try understand the TP yet or do any research about what he is selling. I mean he just thinks some sap is an exotic for 25 g when most other go for like 1g.
I guess we need the TP to go since it cant cover stupid there.
Edit
I could care less what kind of trading system is in the game. But arguing on doing something based on stupid or lazy is not a very good argument at all
(edited by Shinji.2063)
Say i place a buy order for dusk for 25 G for kittens and giggles, some noob sees it since it is the only buy offer up at the time and thinks its a good deal not reading the rest of the the TP info like fact that it is being listed for 300G. I mean he is noob and does not want to try understand the TP yet or do any research about what he is selling. I mean he just thinks some sap is an exotic for 25 g when most other go for like 1g.
When you first visit the BLT to sell your item, I believe it shows you the item’s mean average between the highest buy price and the lowest sell price. So in your case, the “noob seller” would see that his Dusk is valued at 162.5g (midway between 300g and 25g), way higher than your buy offer. He might still foolishly list it for that much lower price, but he’s unlikely to accept such a lowball bid.
Say i place a buy order for dusk for 25 G for kittens and giggles, some noob sees it since it is the only buy offer up at the time and thinks its a good deal not reading the rest of the the TP info like fact that it is being listed for 300G. I mean he is noob and does not want to try understand the TP yet or do any research about what he is selling. I mean he just thinks some sap is an exotic for 25 g when most other go for like 1g.
And the global TP prevents situation like that. Items like Dusk are very coveted. There will be more buy orders than sell orders, which will drive the price to the its supply/demand equilibrium. Situations like yours won’t exist, because you can put up a buy order for 25G, but since it’s so coveted there is no way your buy order will be fulfilled. But if you do manage to grab it, then it means the value of that item is currently around 25G since obviously no one else was willing to pay higher than that.
I guess we need the TP to go since it cant cover stupid there.
Edit
I could care less what kind of trading system is in the game. But arguing on doing something based on stupid or lazy is not a very good argument at all
But why would you consciously add something that will hurt some people? Anet didn’t choose between the BLT vs direct trading. The BLT was a must for the economy. And then they had to choose between adding direct trading vs no direct trading. And the answer to that was obvious.
The trade window not coming across is easily understood. With no trade window, there is very little trade spam.
That’s a tautology. In general, the people who want direct trading know there is going to be spam and are willing to tolerate it because the ability to trade outweighs the annoyance caused by spam.
What about the people, like me, who don’t care about direct trading ?
For us, there is nothing to offset the annoyance of trade spam.
As for why you like direct trading, what advantages does it give to GW2 as a whole to have it ?
Bypassing the gold sink means more inflation. Trading outside the trading post means less volume going through it, making the trading post more vulnerable to market manipulations and reduces how well you can use it for price checking.
As for it being a tautology, which definition are you using ?
using different words to say the same thing, or a series of self-reinforcing statements that cannot be disproved because they depend on the assumption that they are already correct: Doesn’t fit. What I’m saying can be easily disproved if you just find a single game which allows direct trading, has a lot of trade happening, but has a comparable level of trade spam to GW2 in that games trade hubs.
a technical notion in formal logic, universal unconditioned truth, always valid: I can’t see how it could be considered unconditional when the statement I’m making is if we get direct trading then we will see more trade spam. A very conditional statement.
a rule of replacement for logical expressions in some systems of propositional logic: If you think this definition is relevant, I’d like to hear you explain how it is.
If you’re thinking of a different definition, be sure to include where you get that definition from.
With the GW1 trade window, there was a lot of trade spam and ANET had a lot of trouble keeping it in the trade channel.
Actually, the GW1 chat window automatically directs 99% of trade spam based on the keyphrases “wtb” and “wts” which players actually use. If you turn off the trade channel, you would see virtually no trade spam. You really should try out GW1 sometime.
Oh, I did play GW1. I remember how bad it was. I remember when the filters were added. People bypassed them. ANET changed the filters. People bypassed them again.
Trade spam in local didn’t die down until ANET put a notice on the login screen reminding everyone that it was against the rules. Removing the trade window is a much more effective method against trade spam, and also one that doesn’t require anyone from ANET to deal with reported trade spammers.
Not sure if it’s against the rules OP but I got yelled at in Lions Arch for selling exotic jewelry in map chat by many people who said “stop spamming map
Chat” or “use the TP kitten.” And I only advertised twice.
I’m fine adjusting to the community norms, I just wasn’t used to this in an mmo so it caught me off guard.
At launch I was hoping I could eventualy establish myself as a reputable chef/jeweler that people on my server could trust with their orders, and therefore maybe we could both save a little money (I save on listing fee and therefore come down a bit on price for the ). The reputation is still possible to establish but much harder since we can’t really advertise anywhere.
Stinks but I suppose that’s just the way things go. Maybe your server is different though.
Also while we are at it, a cash on delivery system would rock in the mail service…it prevents scamming, however, I believe this would not give the gold sink anet is looking for which I do understand the need for a gold sink.
(edited by Shlamorel.8714)
@Shlamorel, I had this problem too on Anvil Rock. I’d say WTS in chat, and I’d get the same 2 noobs crying about how “it’s a scam etc., and why don’t I just use the TP”. Unfortunately, these kids didn’t understand basic math when I explained that I could sell for cheaper by using chat, they insisted that they didn’t want to hear anything. So I switched servers to Borlis Pass, and when I use WTS in map chat, and someone says why not use tp, I have people ACTUALLY DEFEND me. Granted, I try to do it only as often as people spam LFG for dungeons and fractals so no one minds. I’ve sold a few high priced halloween skins using this method already.
The ‘safest’ solution to ‘black market’ dealing is to get a 3rd party, or a middleman.
Of course, the biggest issue is getting someone who both sides trust.
You may consider contacting a well-known GW2 player, like Dulfy, or perhaps some of the more famous GW2 players who stream the game exclusively. Of course, you still need to screenshot the agreements.
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Introducing a middle man would be a waste. Who would want to waste their time trading items back and forth from players. What would they get in compensation? Money? If so, then they’d just be acting as a TP (with the tax).
Also, screenshots are always welcome, in case you want to shame the seller, but not really needed since if you report someone for scamming ANet can always go back and look at chat logs (dev confirmed this in one of my threads).
Not sure if it’s against the rules OP but I got yelled at in Lions Arch for selling exotic jewelry in map chat by many people who said “stop spamming map
Chat” or “use the TP kitten.” And I only advertised twice.
The only people who like seeing trade advertising are the people who are trying to trade. Everyone else just sees it as something getting in the way of what they are using chat for. Throw in the scams that have taken place over mail trade and hostility should be expected.
Also while we are at it, a cash on delivery system would rock in the mail service…it prevents scamming, however, I believe this would not give the gold sink anet is looking for which I do understand the need for a gold sink.
Making player to player trading safe means that trade spam can pay off. Thus there is an incentive to spam to avoid the TP fees. So trade spam will show up.
Especially among people who don’t properly value their time, so they spend time spamming to save an amount on TP fees that is less than what they could have earned if they just listed it on the TP and went farming for that amount of time.
Introducing a middle man would be a waste. Who would want to waste their time trading items back and forth from players. What would they get in compensation? Money? If so, then they’d just be acting as a TP (with the tax).
If both players trust a middleman then it would solve the trust question for people who have never traded before. As for his fee, as long as it’s below the TP tax it would be good for those involved. Problem is the middleman establishing that he can be trusted.
Then there is the whole issue about avoiding the gold sink. ANET won’t like what that does to the economy. How many people would keep operating as a middleman if they keep being hit by anti-RMT code because of their middleman activities ?
Since there is no “secure trading” be careful when doing trades. You can very easily get scammed.