Guild Wars 2

Is the gold to gems rate fair in guild wars 2?

They didn’t have to add this feature at all you know. It could have been only buy items from the store with real money and no gems at all. No buying items with gold. Cold, hard cash for each and every single purchase. Guild Wars 1 had a store. No gems. Cash only. You want it, open up your wallet.

In fact, I think they would have been better not putting gems for gold in. People seem to get so entitled/outraged about it. Gems cost too much! People can buy gold with gems!

It never seems to be, oh good. I can get stuff for free (as no real world money) if I pay with gold.

Fair is pretty subjective.

Part of the reason it’s in is to help stop RMT services from running amok. Given all the RMT spam I’ve gotten lately, I’d say they might want to consider looking at making some adjustments.

But fair? Can’t say.

No, it’s not fair. I want to get at least 10 gold for my 100 gems. Move up higher, exchange rate!

But seriously, the exchange rate is controlled entirely by players. It’s as fair as can be.

Back in my day, you could get 400 gems for a single gold piece. I bought nearly $1000 worth of gems using gold.

The glory days.

I ask myself the same question. Is it fair for me to logon everday without paying a subscription.

Davidm.2419:

Is the gold to gems rate fair in guild wars 2?

Yes! It is an OPTION for players to use in-game gold rather than having no option at all. Say, if Anet never implemented Gold To Gem conversion, then the only option to have is to use real money.

Now, I’m not saying it’s “cheap” to convert, that is entirely different and depends on who you ask. I’d say when the game launch, I felt conversion was steep, because many players don’t have many gold. But now that I have more gold than when i first started, it still feel steep.

But the good news: I have an option to use in-game gold rather than just buy gems with real money.

It is absolutely awesome. A very reasonable way to do something that many games with a similar business model don’t do at all, and others do terribly.

I truly admire GW2’s development team for maintaining a model that seems to give them enough funds to keep the game under active development without allowing microtransactions to disrupt play in a meaningful way. It’s the first game I’ve seen truly strike that balance and I literally don’t even have a suggestion for it. IMO it is the best in any MMO I’ve yet seen, period, and I’m saying that out of a genuine love for the genre, not loyalty.

I think it is fair however I don’t think some of the items in the Gem Store are worth their value in gold to gem conversion. Nor do I think they are worth their value in hard earned IRL cash.

Example of these items are:

Boosters
Upgrade extractor.
Black Lion Keys(Due to the RNG involved.)

gem to gold is a bigger problem, you will always be undercut even if you bought your gems with money.

anzenketh.3759:

I think it is fair however I don’t think some of the items in the Gem Store are worth their value in gold to gem conversion. Nor do I think they are worth their value in hard earned IRL cash.

Example of these items are:

Boosters
Upgrade extractor.
Black Lion Keys(Due to the RNG involved.)

That’s because the prices are set based on cash value, not gold. As long as the cash value are in line with other game’s cash shops then everything is right as rain.

If you think they’re overpriced based on an every increasing gold price, don’t buy those items. If you think 1680 gems for 25 keys, that’s $21 worth of gems, isn’t worth 166g so be it.

I’ve spent a small amount of real money on gems, and have converted gold to gems. I wouldn’t convert gems to gold personally, so for me gems are on the cheap side paying with gold. I do however find most of the items overpriced no matter how I get my gems. Other people’s mileage obviously vary.

Astral Projections.7320:

They didn’t have to add this feature at all you know. It could have been only buy items from the store with real money and no gems at all. No buying items with gold. Cold, hard cash for each and every single purchase. Guild Wars 1 had a store. No gems. Cash only. You want it, open up your wallet.

In fact, I think they would have been better not putting gems for gold in. People seem to get so entitled/outraged about it. Gems cost too much! People can buy gold with gems!

It never seems to be, oh good. I can get stuff for free (as no real world money) if I pay with gold.

YOU might be getting them for free, but SOMEBODY had to buy those Gems. That’s the beauty of the system.

Say, Customer #1 buys a Gem Card (800 Gems) because he needs mats to make a Legendary and doesn’t have the gold or the time to farm for them. He turns those Gems into Gold (Right now that would be about 60 gold).

Customer #2 wants an extra character slot, so he buys those 800 Gems with their gold. It costs them 82 gold.

So Customer #1 gets his mats, Customer #2 gets his character slot, AND 22 gold is removed from the economy.

The other way, Customer #2 would pay the $10 for the character slot, no gold is removed from the economy, and Customer #1 is stuck with no mats for his Legendary.

Either way you look at it, ANet gets their $10.

Behellagh.1468:

anzenketh.3759:

I think it is fair however I don’t think some of the items in the Gem Store are worth their value in gold to gem conversion. Nor do I think they are worth their value in hard earned IRL cash.

Example of these items are:

Boosters
Upgrade extractor.
Black Lion Keys(Due to the RNG involved.)

That’s because the prices are set based on cash value, not gold. As long as the cash value are in line with other game’s cash shops then everything is right as rain.

If you think they’re overpriced based on an every increasing gold price, don’t buy those items. If you think 1680 gems for 25 keys, that’s $21 worth of gems, isn’t worth 166g so be it.

I know that they are based upon cash value. The rewards vs Cost(Both Gems and Gold) are not worth it for the items I mentioned in my opinion. I know I can just not buy them and I don’t. I have found another method to get what I wanted from the Black lion kits without buying the Black Lion kits.

I have no issue with the Gold → Gem conversion rate. Yes, it’s high, but they also want to discourage people from using it.

What I’m not ok with though is what real-money buys me for Gems. 10$ for a pitiful amount of Gold or a single Gem-store item isn’t good enough, sorry.

Is the rate fair ?

That’s a very good question. If the gem<>gold exchange used buy and sell orders like the rest of the trading post, I’d call it fair because I understand how that would lead to a fair value.

But the current algorithm ?
I have no idea how it decides what price to set. I have no data about how many gems are held by the currency exchange over a long period of time.
Maybe it is fair. Maybe it sets the price a bit too high. Maybe it sets it a bit too low. We don’t have enough information to know.
A better question would be: Does ANET know if the algorithm of the currency exchange is fair ?

The only thing that I think may be out of alignment is the 30% difference between the buy and sell price. Obviously the higher gold prices go the larger the split becomes. There may be a time when it is neither worthwhile to buy gold with gems or to buy gems with gold.

Unless we hit that point, there’s no problem.

Dee Jay.2460:

I have no issue with the Gold -> Gem conversion rate. Yes, it’s high, but they also want to discourage people from using it.

What I’m not ok with though is what real-money buys me for Gems. 10$ for a pitiful amount of Gold or a single Gem-store item isn’t good enough, sorry.

i already suggested a system that would make things fair but it was blown off because they simply could not understand the benefit part…..or were just afraid that real money buyers get their worth in gems while gold exchangers need to farm more.

Davidm.2419:

Is the gold to gems rate fair in guild wars 2?

Define “fair” and we can have a decent discussion about it.

A high gold:gem conversion rate is great for new players, especially those who spent less than US$25 on the game — the $25 they saved from retail yields 2,000 gems, which converts to around 130 gold, more than enough to max a couple of crafts, buy exotics, and some nice skins. Anyone willing to spend $10/month can turn that into ~50 gold.

On the other hand, it’s lousy for players, such as myself, whose entertainment budget doesn’t allow for buying gems. It’s also worse for gold sellers, who have to offer more illicit gold per dollar.

Therefore, from my point of view, the game as a whole is better off if the gold:gem conversion rate continues to increase over time. I might be worse off, but the economy will be healthier.

Its out of whack and that’s why we are seeing goldsellers springing up again in large amounts.

My main bugbear is things like bag slots as their price has gone up considerably, in real terms.

Personally, I want an option for a subscription option that unlocks all that nonsense. I don’t want to play the game for “free”, because currently I end up paying the amount of a subscription and still lack some basic things like bag slots when I create a new character.

So give us a subscription option and the ability to support the game while avoiding all the annoying bag and bank slot nonsense please.

chronometria.3708:

Its out of whack and that’s why we are seeing goldsellers springing up again in large amounts.

My main bugbear is things like bag slots as their price has gone up considerably, in real terms.

Personally, I want an option for a subscription option that unlocks all that nonsense. I don’t want to play the game for “free”, because currently I end up paying the amount of a subscription and still lack some basic things like bag slots when I create a new character.

So give us a subscription option and the ability to support the game while avoiding all the annoying bag and bank slot nonsense please.

uhmm, you don’t have to pay for gems every month you know…..that’s all your doing.

anzenketh.3759:

I think it is fair however I don’t think some of the items in the Gem Store are worth their value in gold to gem conversion. Nor do I think they are worth their value in hard earned IRL cash.

Example of these items are:

Boosters
Upgrade extractor.
Black Lion Keys(Due to the RNG involved.)

Yeeees. :\

If Upgrade extractors moved down to about… 50 gems, people would use them, I think.
Or make an gem-payed unlimited extractor that consumes silver per use. It’d be a minor gold sink and a great pay-for-convenience tool.
I doubt they will, because of the karma armors. (That could be fixed by making the runes separate from the gear pieces, and probably account/soulbound.)

As for Black Lion keys, please MAKE THEM CHEAP. Guarantee a ticket scrap and drop the price to 50 gems, and you will see them skyrocket in use. That would put their real-life cost around 60-cents per gamble (or about 3 gold, in the current market).

Rauderi.8706:

Yeeees. :\

If Upgrade extractors moved down to about… 50 gems, people would use them, I think.
Or make an gem-payed unlimited extractor that consumes silver per use. It’d be a minor gold sink and a great pay-for-convenience tool.
I doubt they will, because of the karma armors. (That could be fixed by making the runes separate from the gear pieces, and probably account/soulbound.)

As for Black Lion keys, please MAKE THEM CHEAP. Guarantee a ticket scrap and drop the price to 50 gems, and you will see them skyrocket in use. That would put their real-life cost around 60-cents per gamble (or about 3 gold, in the current market).

They make more money at the current prices than they would by catering to the cheapskates – that just makes it easier and more attractive to convert (less) gold to gems in order to buy items, rather than spend a fixed amount of $ to buy gems.

The prices in real money don’t change unless the items go on sale, as a limited time offer. This has the effect of making more money despite the lower prices because it creates urgency. Permanently lowering the prices will make less money because the customer can pay less for the item at any time instead of being urged to buy now.

I’ve never taken a college-level business class in my life, and I know this. It’s not hard to figure out, people who spend years studying buying habits are a lot smarter than this.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Is the rate fair ?

That’s a very good question. If the gem<>gold exchange used buy and sell orders like the rest of the trading post, I’d call it fair because I understand how that would lead to a fair value.

But the current algorithm ?
I have no idea how it decides what price to set. I have no data about how many gems are held by the currency exchange over a long period of time.
Maybe it is fair. Maybe it sets the price a bit too high. Maybe it sets it a bit too low. We don’t have enough information to know.
A better question would be: Does ANET know if the algorithm of the currency exchange is fair ?

There is no algorithm.
“ArenaNet will set the initial exchange rate for gems to gold when the servers first open for headstart, but after that the rate will fluctuate based on supply and demand of the players using the Currency Exchange. The gems and gold players get from the Currency Exchange are supplied by other players, not ArenaNet.”

This is from the devs. It is the ratio it is at because of the decisions of player, and people buying gems with cash.

Edit: This is aslo talked about in another thread, same topic.

pdavis.8031:

There is no algorithm.

Do you even know what an algorithim is ?

In mathematics and computer science, an algorithm is a step-by-step procedure for calculations. Algorithms are used for calculation, data processing, and automated reasoning.

How can the currency exchange set a price without using an algorithm on the raw data ?

By saying it’s set by supply and demand, ANET are saying they are using some algorithm. They just aren’t saying what it is.

The algorithm may be just a simple ratio of the two “depositories” within the exchange, one for gold, one for gems, and a 15% sink applied to when gold comes in and goes out.

Simple long division isn’t normally considered an “algorithm”.

chronometria.3708:

Its out of whack and that’s why we are seeing goldsellers springing up again in large amounts.

1. How is “out of whack”? It’s great for new players; it only is bad for people like me who only buy gems with coin.
2. There are always goldsellers. Some days more, some days less. This month, we probably have a lot of accounts stolen due to using the same password/address as a compromised non-GW2 account. (There are a lot of reasons why that might be more common this month.)
3. In fact, the more the gold:gem price goes up, the harder it is for gold sellers: they also have to offer more per dollar/euro/pound, otherwise people won’t risk their account for a few extra silver compared to what they can get through legitimate channels.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

pdavis.8031:

There is no algorithm.

Do you even know what an algorithim is ?

In mathematics and computer science, an algorithm is a step-by-step procedure for calculations. Algorithms are used for calculation, data processing, and automated reasoning.

How can the currency exchange set a price without using an algorithm on the raw data ?

By saying it’s set by supply and demand, ANET are saying they are using some algorithm. They just aren’t saying what it is.

Yes I understand what an algorithm is. However saying that they are using an algorithm implies that the system is controlled by Anet. While I agree that there is formula (which would be a better word) to determine the exchange rate, the fact is that when more people buy gems with cash, it creates a form of inflation of gems, thus increasing the exchange rate of gold to gems. Due to the fact there isnt an infusion of gold into the game other than what can be produced in game. The gem to gold conversion artificially creates gold, which would result in gold becoming less valuable. Thus requiring more gold for gems.

The only way to really combat this is to have the entire game population stop buying gems with cash and only use in game gold for gems for at least a couple years to achieve some sort of equilibrium.

pdavis.8031:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

pdavis.8031:

There is no algorithm.

Do you even know what an algorithim is ?

In mathematics and computer science, an algorithm is a step-by-step procedure for calculations. Algorithms are used for calculation, data processing, and automated reasoning.

How can the currency exchange set a price without using an algorithm on the raw data ?

By saying it’s set by supply and demand, ANET are saying they are using some algorithm. They just aren’t saying what it is.

Yes I understand what an algorithm is. However saying that they are using an algorithm implies that the system is controlled by Anet. While I agree that there is formula (which would be a better word) to determine the exchange rate, the fact is that when more people buy gems with cash, it creates a form of inflation of gems, thus increasing the exchange rate of gold to gems. Due to the fact there isnt an infusion of gold into the game other than what can be produced in game. The gem to gold conversion artificially creates gold, which would result in gold becoming less valuable. Thus requiring more gold for gems.

The only way to really combat this is to have the entire game population stop buying gems with cash and only use in game gold for gems for at least a couple years to achieve some sort of equilibrium.

Edit: I would guess the formula would look something like this
supply and demand Its near the bottom and explains it quite well actually.

Behellagh.1468:

The algorithm may be just a simple ratio of the two “depositories” within the exchange, one for gold, one for gems, and a 15% sink applied to when gold comes in and goes out.

Simple long division isn’t normally considered an “algorithm”.

Don’t forget having to update the values of the depositories every time there is a transaction. That’s a very important part of the algorithm.

Assuming that is how the currency exchange operates. How do you know that the currency exchange algorithm is as simple as you say it is ?

pdavis.8031:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

pdavis.8031:

There is no algorithm.

Do you even know what an algorithim is ?

In mathematics and computer science, an algorithm is a step-by-step procedure for calculations. Algorithms are used for calculation, data processing, and automated reasoning.

How can the currency exchange set a price without using an algorithm on the raw data ?

By saying it’s set by supply and demand, ANET are saying they are using some algorithm. They just aren’t saying what it is.

Yes I understand what an algorithm is. However saying that they are using an algorithm implies that the system is controlled by Anet.

No it doesn’t. An algorithm means it’s automated in some way. Inputs go in, algorithm does some processing, outputs come out. No need for any human intervention.

For there to be no algorithm, then ANET would have to manually adjust it.

While I agree that there is formula (which would be a better word)

Which definition of algorithm are you using ?

Because it seems a very unusual one.

The gem to gold conversion artificially creates gold

Does it really ?

John Smith disagrees

There seems to be some confusion:
The currency exchange has a supply of Gems and Gold.

If players are converting Gold to Gems, then the Amount of Gold player will receive for their gems goes up.
If players are converting Gems to Gold, then the amount of Gems players receive for Gold goes up.

The exchange rate changes based on the scarcity of each supply. You cannot inflate it, it’s an exchange rate. As players purchase in one direction, it entices purchases in the other direction.

It doesn’t create gold. It only has gold previous players have put into it. Maybe with the addition of a small startup amount ANET added on release because the algorithm doesn’t work well with a quantity of 0.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Behellagh.1468:

The algorithm may be just a simple ratio of the two “depositories” within the exchange, one for gold, one for gems, and a 15% sink applied to when gold comes in and goes out.

Simple long division isn’t normally considered an “algorithm”.

Don’t forget having to update the values of the depositories every time there is a transaction. That’s a very important part of the algorithm.

Assuming that is how the currency exchange operates. How do you know that the currency exchange algorithm is as simple as you say it is ?

pdavis.8031:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

pdavis.8031:

There is no algorithm.

Do you even know what an algorithim is ?

In mathematics and computer science, an algorithm is a step-by-step procedure for calculations. Algorithms are used for calculation, data processing, and automated reasoning.

How can the currency exchange set a price without using an algorithm on the raw data ?

By saying it’s set by supply and demand, ANET are saying they are using some algorithm. They just aren’t saying what it is.

Yes I understand what an algorithm is. However saying that they are using an algorithm implies that the system is controlled by Anet.

No it doesn’t. An algorithm means it’s automated in some way. Inputs go in, algorithm does some processing, outputs come out. No need for any human intervention.

For there to be no algorithm, then ANET would have to manually adjust it.

While I agree that there is formula (which would be a better word)

Which definition of algorithm are you using ?

Because it seems a very unusual one.

The gem to gold conversion artificially creates gold

Does it really ?

John Smith disagrees

There seems to be some confusion:
The currency exchange has a supply of Gems and Gold.

If players are converting Gold to Gems, then the Amount of Gold player will receive for their gems goes up.
If players are converting Gems to Gold, then the amount of Gems players receive for Gold goes up.

The exchange rate changes based on the scarcity of each supply. You cannot inflate it, it’s an exchange rate. As players purchase in one direction, it entices purchases in the other direction.

It doesn’t create gold. It only has gold previous players have put into it. Maybe with the addition of a small startup amount ANET added on release because the algorithm doesn’t work well with a quantity of 0.

I stand corrected. However, if the algorithm put in place from the start is taking care of the exchange rate, then its operating as intended. Thus creating the exchange rate as we see it. So unless they rigged the algorithm, it should be a fair rate based on gem purchases.

pdavis.8031:

I stand corrected. However, if the algorithm put in place from the start is taking care of the exchange rate, then its operating as intended. Thus creating the exchange rate as we see it. So unless they rigged the algorithm, it should be a fair rate based on gem purchases.

It is a fair exchange rate. The rate changes based on how much gold is converted to gems, or how many gems are converted to gold. That’s all there is to it. You can see the effects when new items are added to the gem store and a lot of players convert gold they don’t need for other things to buy them. Every time this happens, the rate spikes.

And it can be seen in situations like last December, when they gave away items for buying a certain quantity of gems with real money. Players with nothing to spend the gems on converted them to gold, moving the exchange rate in the other direction.

If Anet were to manipulate it, the records that are kept of rate changes would show changes for no reason. There is no reason to do this, the only possible effect is negative, when buyers lose confidence in Anet because the exchange does not work the way they stated.

^
My thoughts exactly. I can’t see them doing that even though many people like to think of Anet as a greedy, money grubbing company that has no sense of ethics.

It is not fair at all. It just encourages more people to use credit cards to get gems and convert them to gold to get their legendaries.

It’s the players fault, they’re the ones setting the gem market and running their Gem>Gold Gold>Gem prices.

But it is human nature to try to get something for nothing, which is how ANet “finances” their Gem to Gold system by offering the Gold to Gem system.

Just as it is human nature to cause “tragedy of the commons” by the overuse of the Gold to Gem system leading to an increase cost of using the Gold to Gem system.

This in turn helps drive the notion that the game is too grindy and the rewards to low (price of precursors, skins and legendaries on the TP being the other).

Whatever they want to do is fine. If it goes any higher…making me waste more time playing to be able to buy the items that interest me in gold, I will move on from this game quickly. I do not agree with the microtransaction trend in gaming at all at all. I skipped Diablo 3 for this reason.Paying real world money for things in a video game makes me sick. I’d rather have a subscription fee.

^
Yeah I can see why you would irritated, the gem to gold and gold to gem ratios in getting a bit high. However, unlike many games with Micro transactions, its not required to play any content, and to be able to progress beyond a certain point. There is mostly cosmetic and convenience items in the gem store. While it does get irritating, it can be completely ignored.

when you concider that it takes about 250 materials in both champions online and star trek online to get just 1 zen and it takes about 2500 zen to get a ship in STO, you can say that the exchange in GW2 is actually quite friendly.
that, and you can use actual in-game gold instead of a material that can’t be farmed.

no really, you’re better of like this, just imagine the outcry if the system is like STO and CO……..0_0