(edited by Kaon.7192)
Legendaries tradeable, Ascended are not
There’s no justification beyond anet know they kittened up with legendaries and don’t want to repeat the mistake. But as you point out its quite ridiculous to have the top tier of weapons available on the TP and the next tier down not. The phrase shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted springs to mind.
Poor game design, and whats more completely against what anet seem to want the TP to be.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Legendaries should have been account bound from the beginning. Anet can’t go back and change it now, but that doesn’t mean they have to continue making the same mistake going forward.
Legendaries should have been account bound from the beginning. Anet can’t go back and change it now, but that doesn’t mean they have to continue making the same mistake going forward.
If ascended were a tier above legendary this would make sense but they aren’t so it makes no sense as the OP said.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
So… say you asked me for change for a $10 bill and I thought it was a $20 and gave you four $5s. I realize the mistake too late, but that doesn’t mean you can come back and give me another $10 and get four more $5s.
When you learn from your mistakes you don’t repeat them.
So… say you asked me for change for a $10 bill and I thought it was a $20 and gave you four $5s. I realize the mistake too late, but that doesn’t mean you can come back and give me another $10 and get four more $5s.
When you learn from your mistakes you don’t repeat them.
Why exactly would you consider making Ascended tradeable a mistake?
Legendaries, I understand, as it is a prestige item and making prestige items tradeable undermines their status.
However, Ascended items are, for the most part, valued only for their utility. It is the extra stats they grant over Exotics that makes them valuable. These items are required for vertical progression, in other words, to remain on equal footing with other players in the game. Limiting trade for these types of items is a rather despicable way to “encourage” players to do content that they would otherwise rather not do.
I am of the position that the ideal equipment acquisition system would be exactly the opposite of how things are currently implemented in GW2. Utility items (best-in-slot stats with mediocre skins) should be freely tradeable and require reasonable amounts of effort to obtain and have no time-gate in any shape or form. Prestige items (good or great looking skins) are the ones that should have limited player trade, require a wide variety of content to be completed, and possibly be time-gated to allow ANet to keep up with player demand for high quality skins (at least until they implement User Created Content).
Why exactly would you consider making Ascended tradeable a mistake?
.
For the same reason that tradeable Legendaries are a mistake. Instead of players out in the world playing the game to work towards their goals, you have the “I have more (real/fake) money than you” game where people simply buy their way through the content.
Legendary weapons are now the equivalent of Ascended weapons, prettier skins or not. In the game there is functionally no difference between them. If you have one you essentially have the other.
If you’re playing the game for vertical, stat-based “progression” then you’ve got the wrong skinner box. Slightly bigger numbers make no significant difference in this game, people only think that because they have come from games where stats lock you out of content or create an impenetrable wall in PVP between players.
Legendaries and Ascended are both time-based goals that give goal-oriented players a reason to keep logging in. And I agree with Anet that these things should be kept off the Trading Post.
Why exactly would you consider making Ascended tradeable a mistake?
.For the same reason that tradeable Legendaries are a mistake. Instead of players out in the world playing the game to work towards their goals, you have the “I have more (real/fake) money than you” game where people simply buy their way through the content.
Legendary weapons are now the equivalent of Ascended weapons, prettier skins or not. In the game there is functionally no difference between them. If you have one you essentially have the other.
If you’re playing the game for vertical, stat-based “progression” then you’ve got the wrong skinner box. Slightly bigger numbers make no significant difference in this game, people only think that because they have come from games where stats lock you out of content or create an impenetrable wall in PVP between players.
Legendaries and Ascended are both time-based goals that give goal-oriented players a reason to keep logging in. And I agree with Anet that these things should be kept off the Trading Post.
Looks like we’ll have to agree to disagree on the equivalence of Legendaries and Ascended.
One thing we seem to agree on is that Legendaries should be kept off the Trading post. Why do you feel it is too late to do anything about this? It really doesn’t seem like it’s a decision that they can’t afford reverse. There may be a backlash, but it won’t be much compared to the backlash during the introduction of Ascended weapons, or even the backlash during the change that made Legendaries tradeable in the first place.
If this is indeed the direction ANet wants to go with then they need to at least be consistent and correct their easily correctable mistakes.
Or it was done to avoid crashing the prices of exotic equipment.
If you can buy exotic, why buy rare right? Just go straight to exotic. Hence the prices of rares are a tenth of an exotic. Same thing could happen if you’d allow finished ascended weapons on the market.
Then, there’s the time factor. It’s a big hassle getting all the account bound mats, like empyrian fragments and dragonite ore. The vision crystal is the time-limiting factor to ascended gear. It’s the factor that was introduced so that the economy could adapt to the ascended tier gradually.
Other than that, it’s currently one of the biggest money sinks in the game (the TP being the biggest sink), as each person has to individually level up weapon crafting to 500, which is incredibly expensive. The economy was inflated (invasions, champion farming, gauntlet farming) on purpose because room was needed for the imminent deflation that this update would cause.
Just my 2 cents really. Take it with a grain of salt.
Well they seemed to have developed the technology to change legendary weapons to account bond now. We saw it with MF items. We know they can purge from the TP and make previously unbound items account bound. It may be they are planning on making all legendarys account bound once they introduce precursor crafting or the next set of legendaries.
I hope they do this. Having legendary weapons tradeable was one of the worst mistakes in the game imo.
How much would you pay for an ascended weapon?
Looks like we’ll have to agree to disagree on the equivalence of Legendaries and Ascended.
One thing we seem to agree on is that Legendaries should be kept off the Trading post. Why do you feel it is too late to do anything about this? It really doesn’t seem like it’s a decision that they can’t afford reverse. There may be a backlash, but it won’t be much compared to the backlash during the introduction of Ascended weapons, or even the backlash during the change that made Legendaries tradeable in the first place.
If this is indeed the direction ANet wants to go with then they need to at least be consistent and correct their easily correctable mistakes.
You asked for an explanation, I don’t require or even expect agreement.
As for changing Legendaries, they recently did the same thing with MF gear and people threw a kittenstorm about it. Imagine people who have thousands invested in precursors, people who are thiiiiis close to being able to afford to buy one, people who just found one and are waiting for the right moment to sell it, etc.
Pulling MF gear from the TP is an unavoidable and minor situation. Pulling precursors and Legendaries will kill the game for thousands of people. They can’t put that genie back in the bottle now. They lost the opportunity before they even realized they shouldn’t have allowed it in the first place.
Pulling MF gear from the TP is an unavoidable and minor situation. Pulling precursors and Legendaries will kill the game for thousands of people. They can’t put that genie back in the bottle now. They lost the opportunity before they even realized they shouldn’t have allowed it in the first place.
Wait…. hold up. Pulling MF gear was minor and unavoidable but pulling precursors and legendaries will kill the game for thousands??!! I think you have that backwards.
Anyways, precursors should stay sellable. Legendaries should not. Ascended weapons should be sellable. I never understood why completed legendaries were allowed on the TP and I don’t understand why ascended weapons are not.
They CAN do something about the legendaries on the market. Just pull them. The economy won’t collapse.
Legendaries should have been account bound from the beginning. Anet can’t go back and change it now, but that doesn’t mean they have to continue making the same mistake going forward.
but they can still make it account bound on use, as it should be. I find it silly that you spend that much time on it but you can’t use it across all of your characters who might benefit from the same weapon, especially now that the stats can be switch outside of combat
Legendaries shouldn’t be tradeable. If someone buys 2000 gold from 3rd party then buys it instantly without effort, i consider this as a cheat. If we spend 2-3 months of effort for a legendary, they have to spend too. And no, anet doesn’t ban gold buyers (i know ppl who bought legendaries with gold from 3rd party and they never get banned) so don’t convince yourself. Ascendeds are in better situation, at least they require some work but it’s still gold oriented, which is buyable with 3rd party game money. Best items in game should require some serious effort to craft, not only gold. With this way, they can prevent great percentage of gold sellers. Non-sellable account bound crafting materials obtained via “only” player effort are the way.
I don’t get why everything a game dev does needs to make sense to the average player. Nothing limits them to what they do other than their own imagination. They aren’t governed by physical laws.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I don’t get why everything a game dev does needs to make sense to the average player. Nothing limits them to what they do other than their own imagination. They aren’t governed by physical laws.
Sure, you can make any arguments you want, and people can stick to their guns and defend their stance for those arguments.
It doesn’t make the argument logical.
Even a child can see there is a fault in logic by looking at the tiers and seeing one “in the middle of no where” and being different then all others. Queue the old Sesame Street song of one not looking like the others, any time here.
I too, like many, wondered why Legendary weapons were not account bound. But the move on ascended leaves a lot to be desired. Honestly I think it comes down that there is an issue with their “living economy” that has gone unchecked and has even gotten to the point of problematic, so much so, they are releasing all new content in the way we see now to try and “fix” this problem.
Doesn’t make it any less painful, or make any sense. But it is what it is, for good or ill. Still doesn’t mean it’s the logical choice given all the touted aspects of the game, including the living economy the Devs are so proud of.
To each their own.
Other than that, it’s currently one of the biggest money sinks in the game (the TP being the biggest sink), as each person has to individually level up weapon crafting to 500, which is incredibly expensive. The economy was inflated (invasions, champion farming, gauntlet farming) on purpose because room was needed for the imminent deflation that this update would cause.
Just my 2 cents really. Take it with a grain of salt.
I have to laugh that with all this manipulation of the economy that they continue to try and treat it like a real world economy such that they employ an economist full time. Its like an absurdist comedy.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
And what exactly does/should an Economist do, eh? Just wondering what the perception is. I know what I’m doing wih my degree, and it has nothing to do with money (other than the occasional paycheck being sent my way).
Legendaries should have been account bound from the beginning. Anet can’t go back and change it now, but that doesn’t mean they have to continue making the same mistake going forward.
Well, ANET has already taken an entire market of tradable items and make them account bound (MF items). So i wouldn’t say they can’t go back and change it.
They cannot make Legendaries account bound now because that will cause more problems. What they can do is make the next legendaries be account bound. That’s the only solution I could think of.
They cannot make Legendaries account bound now because that will cause more problems. What they can do is make the next legendaries be account bound. That’s the only solution I could think of.
You’re wrong. Trust me i just had 50+ exotics which used to be tradable become account bound. They could if they wanted to.
(edited by Curse Drew.8679)
There’s people out there right now spending as little as possible and farming like fiends to make their legendaries (good luck) with sole intent to sell them. Suddenly making them account bound isn’t going to be fair to those people, when hundreds of other players have already sold their’s for major gold. Legendaries probably shouldn’t have been sellable from the start, but since they were changing it now just isn’t going to work because Anet doesn’t want that backlash for someone who FINALLY got their precursor and went to sell but couldn’t.
There’s people out there right now spending as little as possible and farming like fiends to make their legendaries (good luck) with sole intent to sell them. Suddenly making them account bound isn’t going to be fair to those people, when hundreds of other players have already sold their’s for major gold. Legendaries probably shouldn’t have been sellable from the start, but since they were changing it now just isn’t going to work because Anet doesn’t want that backlash for someone who FINALLY got their precursor and went to sell but couldn’t.
And making my 50+ sellable exotics that became account bound from last update, is fair to me & the thousand other people who had them?
(edited by Curse Drew.8679)
There’s people out there right now spending as little as possible and farming like fiends to make their legendaries (good luck) with sole intent to sell them. Suddenly making them account bound isn’t going to be fair to those people, when hundreds of other players have already sold their’s for major gold. Legendaries probably shouldn’t have been sellable from the start, but since they were changing it now just isn’t going to work because Anet doesn’t want that backlash for someone who FINALLY got their precursor and went to sell but couldn’t.
Any change that affects legendaries shakes the economy like mad. If legendaries were to become account bound, you wouldn’t know about it until the patch hits.
(Well, you would know shortly before the patch hits – thanks to all the lovely inside trading that can be seen as of late).
So, whether it’s fair or not, it won’t be announced unless you want to temporarily pay 50 silver per t6 material between the time of the announcement and the patch in question.
I’m not saying there planning or would even choose for legendaries to be account bound! All i was saying is if they decided it was in the best interests, they would implement it.
(edited by Curse Drew.8679)
Ascended will be tradable in time. Anet always hold some time for new content before allowing it to be tradable. Just wait.
Ascended will be tradable in time. Anet always hold some time for new content before allowing it to be tradable. Just wait.
If not tradeable then just more available outside of crafting.
just make asc weps mats TRADEABLE! gosh i wanna get rid of these excess mats off my bags and banks!
It’s because Anet makes money off of legendaries from people that dump $600 bucks on the game and get an instantly Legendary.
They’re not prestigious at all.
It’s because Anet makes money off of legendaries from people that dump $600 bucks on the game and get an instantly Legendary.
They’re not prestigious at all.
Most of them buy their gold from 3rd party suppliers, not from gem conversion.
How can anet make money off from this ? or do you mean they supply gold to other sellers ?
Anyway legendaries lost their prestige because of instant-buying with real money.
I know ppl with 10 legendaries…
It’s because Anet makes money off of legendaries from people that dump $600 bucks on the game and get an instantly Legendary.
They’re not prestigious at all.
Yea, that’s about 1,600 gold.
And it is still prestigious, it shows that they are rich enough to drop $600 on a vanity item in a video game.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
Legendaries are not officially tradable yet, are they? Unless you refer to transmuting to a white, moving it and then using a splitter..
Commander Athrael ThunderBorn
GM of Crew of Misfits (CoM)
Piken Square, EU
GM of Crew of Misfits (CoM)
Piken Square, EU
Legendaries are not officially tradable yet, are they? Unless you refer to transmuting to a white, moving it and then using a splitter..
Tradeable means you can buy them on the TP. They have always been tradeable. You’re thinking of account bound.
Legendaries shouldn’t have been tradable in the first place…
It’s because Anet makes money off of legendaries from people that dump $600 bucks on the game and get an instantly Legendary.
They’re not prestigious at all.
Yea, that’s about 1,600 gold.
And it is still prestigious, it shows that they are rich enough to drop $600 on a vanity item in a video game.
It’s actually much cheaper, about $200-250. (according to my buddies with legendaries ^^)
It wouldn’t be a big problem if they had to buy gems from anet/ncsoft then convert them to gold. It would cost more so they would stay rarer and prestigious.(plus arenanet would make more money) With this way if you have a job + mid to good salary, $200-250 is nothing compared to farming all day for 2 months. The problem is, prestige items need to be obtained just by playing the game with serious effort. If a player doesn’t spend his 2 months to craft this item, he mustn’t have this item. Real money must stay out of prestige items. At least, if this is not an option, only gem to gold conversion should be available for real money spenders. So they would need to pay much more if they wanted to buy with real money. Arenanet should improve their measures against 3rd party gold sellers, this the real solution if they don’t want to make them non-tradeable.
The way I see it, the account bound crafting is forcing people to craft, instead of improving crafting to the point that people to WANT to craft.
I don’t see any reasonable explanation for the time gating at all.
Bumping this thread because I was honestly hoping this feature pack would include making Legendaries untradeable again, or at least making Ascended also tradeable for consistency’s sake. But it looks neither is happening…
Would really like to hear ANet’s justification on why they decided to maintain the status quo.
If legendaries were not boe then how would Anet make money?
If legendaries were not boe then how would Anet make money?
That’s only if you have a flawed view that everyone got theirs from buying gems and trading to gold, which is false. I have yet to meet someone who didn’t craft theirs. They’d stand to gain as most mats would still be tradeable and they’d keep their players in-game far more to complete their dungeon set for the gift, work on their 100% map exploration, rank 14 in WvW, not just handing out the cash or thousands gold for someone else to slave away to craft it for them.
That’s not my point at all. My point is that Anet’s theoretical greed is the only reason legendaries were designed to be BoE instead of BoA. I’m sure they regret that design now, but there is nothing more to it.