Guild Wars 2

Even though things like this happen in real life, I feel insider information that is provided to the media prior to the public shouldn’t include information about high supply materials that are going to be used for new content boxes.

How is that fair to your playerbase that has to wait to be hand fed this information at the last minute? Maybe I am just blowing this out of proportion, but it sure seems shady to me.

I can totally understand ANet employees knowing, and some of them might pass this information along. However, what the media should be entitled too prior to the public should not include any updates that will effect trade.

I work hard for gold. I research, read, and play… I am not however handed a free gold ticket like the media is being given on a regular basis. Am I jealous? Probably… Regardless though, I think ANet needs to provide limited information to the media when it comes to trade items.

Edit: Removed example calling out a particular community member.

I imagine John Smith is a millionaire in-game in terms of gold. He knows all these things before any of the patches go live. I’m sure he sold his Crystalline Dust when he could, bought his <INSERT INVESTMENT HERE> low / sold it super high, and so on. That all said, it’s just how the cookie crumbles. I know you said that your case doesn’t really apply to ANet employees, but really, he’s probably the real winner here.

Probably still less than what people can make farming CoF …
Also if Rising Dusk is correct about the ROI in the other thread then I’ve made about double or triple just poking guildwarstrade.com with less risk and 0 inventory space wasted.

These sort of boxes are also a crappy solution. They do not provide a long term outlet for these items. It’s only a short term fix.

I agree with the OP 100%. What happened to "not divulging any information that could destabilize the economy. Take for example the price of z taffy. Up until yesterday they were selling for 5c. Today z taffy price went all the way up to 15c way before this information was leaked on to the forum. This is clearly a case of inside trading information that a privileged few got to take advantage of. Quite disgusting if you ask me. I’m extremely disappointed by this.

I can honestly say that never occurred to be before. It is true though. The sneak peeks to provide a large advantage to Dulfy.

However on the flip side, for the amount of work Dulfy does for this community for free she deserves to be paid large sums of ingame gold at the very least. I hope she makes 1000’s of gold with this information as some form of compensation.

I don’t see the issue here. Boohoo, people who aren’t you got insider info about a few things on the market. Last I checked, you can make money on the tp without being one of anets favorites.

Maybe one of these days the super rich can conglomerate in one thread and post their riches. I can only imagine what tom foolery you whiners will pull out of your hats then.

‘’ITS NOT FAIIRRRR. HE CAN BUY LOW AND SELL HIGH.’’

Balkanwarrior.5132:

I don’t see the issue here. Boohoo, people who aren’t you got insider info about a few things on the market. Last I checked, you can make money on the tp without being one of anets favorites.

Maybe one of these days the super rich can conglomerate in one thread and post their riches. I can only imagine what tom foolery you whiners will pull out of your hats then.

‘’ITS NOT FAIIRRRR. HE CAN BUY LOW AND SELL HIGH.’’

Heaven forbid players want to be on equal chance at the loot…/sigh Someone needs a hug!

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I can honestly say that never occurred to be before. It is true though. The sneak peeks to provide a large advantage to Dulfy.

However on the flip side, for the amount of work Dulfy does for this community for free she deserves to be paid large sums of ingame gold at the very least. I hope she makes 1000’s of gold with this information as some form of compensation.

Agreed, Dulfy does provide an incredible site, and is one I frequent regularly. However, I don’t believe it is for free She was just an example though, and it’s human nature to spread information to friends. Do the friends of these media insiders deserve this information? Hell no.

I am all about providing them information ahead of time to provide to us prior to release, but not trade information. In my opinion, that is shady.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I imagine John Smith is a millionaire in-game in terms of gold. He knows all these things before any of the patches go live. I’m sure he sold his Crystalline Dust when he could, bought his <INSERT INVESTMENT HERE> low / sold it super high, and so on. That all said, it’s just how the cookie crumbles. I know you said that your case doesn’t really apply to ANet employees, but really, he’s probably the real winner here.

True that. In regards to that’s just how the cookie crumbles… your right. Not sure why I felt compelled to voice my opinion on this one. Anet will provide info as they see fit, and there is not a darn thing I can do about it except… accept it.

Doesn’t mean I think it’s fair to your playerbase though.

I knew I should have logged into game when I got home. Ehh oh well. Things are not yet outrageously priced and are still accessible to the player base.

Also we are not talking about Insider trading here. The information was released to the public. Anyone who had the means and opportunity could have taken advantage of this. Now the question is it too late or did it reach the ceiling.

Are you willing to risk it to catch the rise?

1280g to be made from silk, which had 800,000 sitting at 8c and more sitting between 8 and 15c and is now 16c and rising.

Just as much from leather.

The Zhaitaffy increases can’t be said to be related to Dulfy as that could just be speculation due to the event ending. But the material rises are purely because of Dulfy’s upcoming conversion info.

Balkanwarrior.5132:

I don’t see the issue here. Boohoo, people who aren’t you got insider info about a few things on the market. Last I checked, you can make money on the tp without being one of anets favorites.

If you want to run the game economy like a real economy then insider trading is an issue. The OP is 100% correct to be concerned about the issue and it is something that never occurred to me either.

I would be concerned if it was amounts that would actually destabilize the economy …

Leather up from 5 to 15c? OH NOES!!!!

I’m certain that dulfy and other players who are part of the test server krewe have signed non-disclosure agreements that forbids them from revealing what they know to players who are NOT part of the test server, at the risk of getting their accounts banned. I’m unsure if they’re also forbidden from acting on the knowledge they have by stocking up on materials like Silk/Thick Leather before patches hit, but I imagine they are too. Even the devs are forbidden from using their insider knowledge to profit from it (or by just using their admin access to spawn items for themselves).

The recent change where information about the new content is being released one day prior to the actual release is new though, but given the fact that the info is released to the entire public at the same time, fortune favours those who are quicker on the grapevine and act faster on information, just as it does in real life.

As for me, I’m selling my personal stash of Silk and Thick Leather the moment I get home while the price is up.

If you’re going to relate the gw2 economy like the real life stock market, these announcements are things that are very real and can not be avoided.

Take Microsoft for example. You should all be familiar with this. Microsoft announces they do not support used games and all the other jazz, stock price goes down.

In the same way, ANet announce they’re adding a new sink for kittenty crafting mats, prices go up.

It’s how the economy works. If you want a stable, never-changing economy, you will have to play a game that never updates or changes.

laokoko.7403:

I’m not talking about silk and leather. Take a good look at material price of other items in the May 23 period.

Platinum ore rised in price from 10 copper to 80 copper. 250 silk can be traded for a Zephyr Sanctum Supply Box which is the exact same price as 25 platinum ore or 75 silver ore(which can be traded for a Zephyr Sanctum Supply Box).

The exact same thing happend to other material. Every item rised in price to match a stack of silk.

Unless I overthink too much. I would say something is very fishy.

There are only 2 ways to describe this. Tester are using their head start to exploit. Or there are too much flipping going on in that period and the developer purposely set the price of those item so inflation won’t keep continuing.

Heh so our choices are …

1. OMG!!! John Smith actually knows how to do his job!!
2. Something fishy is going on

It’s all early speculation purchase. In the trade, if you don’t act fast, you don’t win. Players either take the plunge and buy early or they miss out completely.

Risingashes.8694:

1280g to be made from silk, which had 800,000 sitting at 8c and more sitting between 8 and 15c and is now 16c and rising.

Just as much from leather.

The Zhaitaffy increases can’t be said to be related to Dulfy as that could just be speculation due to the event ending. But the material rises are purely because of Dulfy’s upcoming conversion info.

Ztaffy has 0 market value. It can’t be sold except on the TP. Logic dictates that contrary to normal behavior it’s price should fall near the end of the event because it would be useless once the event has concluded. However from the Dulfy guide we now know there will be further usus for taffy.

Isn’t this common sense? Especially in the real world?

When you have $10,000,000 in the bank you can use that money to earn a lot more. You can safely earn a lot in interest as well.

As opposed to that poor person working minimum wage, they don’t have any money to spare after expenses to build upon.

As a rich player, what do you expect me to do? Hand out all my gold?

I’m going to do what’s best for me. If I see investment opportunities I will take advantage of it.

OmniPotentes.4817:

Risingashes.8694:

1280g to be made from silk, which had 800,000 sitting at 8c and more sitting between 8 and 15c and is now 16c and rising.

Just as much from leather.

The Zhaitaffy increases can’t be said to be related to Dulfy as that could just be speculation due to the event ending. But the material rises are purely because of Dulfy’s upcoming conversion info.

Ztaffy has 0 market value. It can’t be sold except on the TP. Logic dictates that contrary to normal behavior it’s price should fall near the end of the event because it would be useless once the event has concluded. However from the Dulfy guide we now know there will be further usus for taffy.

Didn’t they say the Zhaitaffy vender would be left in place? If so, the people will still be buying the food or getting the wings.

Edit: the vender will be permanent but moved to Fort Mariner.

Vol.5241:

Isn’t this common sense? Especially in the real world?

No in the real world its insider trading and its illegal. Just because you’ve built up a large bank of gold doesn’t give you the right to make greater profits on knowledge that you receive ahead of time.

morrolan.9608:

Vol.5241:

Isn’t this common sense? Especially in the real world?

No in the real world its insider trading and its illegal. Just because you’ve built up a large bank of gold doesn’t give you the right to make greater profits on knowledge that you receive ahead of time.

Lol, insider trading. Quit throwing around terms like you know what they mean. Announcements are announcements whether they’re Anet’s game-related information or some motorbike company’s latest creation.

Anet released this information to the public; an announcement. Companies do this all the time and it effects the value of their stock. It’s how the world works. You can whinge all you want but you can’t change anything.

Insider trading: The illegal practice of trading on the stock exchange to one’s own advantage through having access to confidential information. Or in this games terms. having information under NDA and acting on said information.

Playing the market: Making trades as soon as possible to take advantage of news.

People who play based upon what they read today is not insider trading it is playing the market.

Well Dulfy’s post, judging by the age of the first comment was between 9-10am EDT. Looking at the supply of Silk Scraps, it was steady at a bit above 5.1 million until a bit after 10am EDT. Prices didn’t move up until about 2:30pm EDT.

So it didn’t look as if too many if any got the word before the word got out via Dulfy or any other sites. Also players who had access during the morning/afternoon on the East Coast and morning on the West Coast of the US or afternoon in Europe had something like 4 hours to cash in before prices shifted.

Sure if you work in the US during the day and sleep at night in Oceania, you got shafted. But somebody somewhere will always get shafted on market news/movement.

The entire premise of this thread is fallacious

While it’s true that knowing in advance means you can take advantage of the trading. You’re not looking at the scale of the trades. When i saw the patch notes go up on Dulfy, i could immediately predict the rise in silk/leather/candy etc. But I didn’t trade in it – do you know why?

I typically make around 30-50g in trading a day without putting too much effort into it. Say you have a product like silk that’s gonna jump from 8c to 16c reliably (double your money) – 100% ROi seems fantastic, til you consider the logistics. if I wanted to make a transaction that’d net me similar profits to my daily income I’d need to flip 250 stacks

That’s – where exactly am I going to store 250 stacks while I wait for the price to rise? – I could just immediately re-list it and hope the price rises that high but that’d be a big gamble, I might over-estimate how high the price will actually get. Not to mention actually listing 250 stacks given the TP’s slow response time and anti-spam code will take the best part of 20 or 30 minutes; and that’s just for 50g profit, if you really wanted to make bank you’d have to waste hours.

So, no.

This kind of small time trading does not benefit “the rich” as much as you think. As I said at the time, this benefits the small time traders the most which is why when i obtained this information, I immediatly told me poorer friends so they could cash in on it, where the handful of gold they could make would make a bigger difference to them, whereas I stuck to the big investments where I can capitalise on the power of scale

Khisanth.2948:

Probably still less than what people can make farming CoF …

OH SNAP

…but only b/c ppl in the media are basically all thumbs at everything.

How many people remember watching the first “Hands on Combat” videos of all these bads in the media and it was literally NOTHING close to how most of us even played Gw1 where you’re SUPPOSED to stand still most of the time unless you’re herding stuff up to be nuked. I remember that stuff being so painful to watch….

What makes anyone think most media’zens/bloggers have that hardcore edge to execute properly on said knowledge? B/c most of it is STILL always going to be about timing & coordination. And if their combat mouse-to-skill bar 1 1 1 2 1 1’ing was any indicator… then I ain’t even gotta finish this sentence

anzenketh.3759:

Insider trading: The illegal practice of trading on the stock exchange to one’s own advantage through having access to confidential information. Or in this games terms. having information under NDA and acting on said information.

Playing the market: Making trades as soon as possible to take advantage of news.

People who play based upon what they read today is not insider trading it is playing the market.

Working as intended.

There will always be people that have access to information before others. Real world economy works in the exact same manner. Governments and legislation makes changes that drastically influences the markets and everyone knows that major corporations accesses to the information upfront…

However, the market isn’t controlled by the inside trading. And i will bet that the market fluctuations aren’t caused by them.

In the end, can we be upset to expect this behavior? Is it more valid than knowing upfront how sPvP changes will affect the game and how the “Pro”-teams will take that for it’s own advantage?

Unfortunately, there is now single way of changing this behavior except by “Leaking” Closed Gw2 information into a public forum, or by hiding the recipes and materials needed to control the flow…

Expected behavior imho!

Don’t like seeing Dulfy’s name thrown around like this because I have not seen any indication she has done anything wrong. But I understand her name is one of the most visible out there, so that is why it is used.

As I said in a different thread, I am concerned about the potential for people with access to the ‘live server’ and early information using this information for their own or their friend’s advantage.

I have seen nothing as of yet to indicate that this is happening or is happening. I am just concerned that the potential exists.

The scale of the investments does not really matter if you are talking about abusing early information. Just because an investment is not as profitable as others, does not mean it is not wrong or harming to the economy if it was an investment made with ‘insider’ knowledge.

But please be careful when using names like Dulfy. She has done nothing that warrants any kind of light to be shined on her name and provides a good service to the community. Don’t call her out just because her name is very well known.

Amun Ra.6435:

Balkanwarrior.5132:

I don’t see the issue here. Boohoo, people who aren’t you got insider info about a few things on the market. Last I checked, you can make money on the tp without being one of anets favorites.

Maybe one of these days the super rich can conglomerate in one thread and post their riches. I can only imagine what tom foolery you whiners will pull out of your hats then.

‘’ITS NOT FAIIRRRR. HE CAN BUY LOW AND SELL HIGH.’’

Heaven forbid players want to be on equal chance at the loot…/sigh Someone needs a hug!

It’s not unfair or unequal that some people are more diligent in their reading of forums and other websites and have an excessive amount of time to dedicate to the game… I missed out on this as well being at work yesterday (actually missed out on a lot of profit the last 4-5 patches because of being at work) but that’s my fault for having a life outside the game… had I not.. I would be richer.. but instead I’m richer IRL and can buy REAL things… and that in the end is much more rewarding than making a couple gold in game by gluing myself to the screen all day and night.

Building wealth in GW2 is completely useless. You could have a higher PAC MAN score than Joe six pack commodities trader if that makes you sleep better at night.

My consumables and repairs costs are a fraction of my earnings just from playing WvW. The gold and laurels just keep piling up. The numbers have become so large that they’re redundant.

I do feel bad for people who play alt characters though. That laurel grind makes me shiver.

fact is, that a few days before a new patch the first items start to rise and that are often the important ones with the most profit.
ouh, for sure, it´s rng. ( rng has nothing to do with that)

waldie.6015:

fact is, that a few days before a new patch the first items start to rise and that are often the important ones with the most profit.
ouh, for sure, it´s rng. ( rng has nothing to do with that)

It’s speculation due to leaked patch information. What the heck does RNG have to do with anything?

The fact that supply of effected crafting items did not change until after the recipes were made public should prove that it was not used to make somebody a lot of gold. Of course they could have bought a single stack of each resource and not made a dent in the supply.

the amount for one people is high enough, but we cant proof that it was bought by a single person, whatever.

why is quartz tradeable?!

waldie.6015:

fact is, that a few days before a new patch the first items start to rise and that are often the important ones with the most profit.
ouh, for sure, it´s rng. ( rng has nothing to do with that)

That’s got any number of very likely explanations… the most obvious ones being the Power Gamers in the Guilds of Anet designer’s who’ve always gotten little perks here and there. … and in a few cases.. just dumb luck even.

Try to explain why I bought 1000 saffron 2 or 3 days before the StarCake recipe was introduced. B/c I sure can’t, I never buy anything in any kind of volume. I just remember staring at one of the latest recipes they’d added with the sentinel stuff and suddenly there was pattern while it was like someone was poking my motivation with a sharp stick from another dimension; so I just did it.

Yaos.4528:

The fact that supply of effected crafting items did not change until after the recipes were made public should prove that it was not used to make somebody a lot of gold.

Except when they did…http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/19731

Huge demand spike on June 26, followed by substantial dips in supply.

In my opinion, Dulfy deserves every copper she can get (if she does do your method).

Many, many, many players use her site, and it’s all free.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I imagine John Smith is a millionaire in-game in terms of gold. He knows all these things before any of the patches go live. I’m sure he sold his Crystalline Dust when he could, bought his <INSERT INVESTMENT HERE> low / sold it super high, and so on. That all said, it’s just how the cookie crumbles. I know you said that your case doesn’t really apply to ANet employees, but really, he’s probably the real winner here.

This wouldn’t surprise me. his management of the economy only makes any sense if his main focus is to profit off his decisions in game! J/K, maybe?

It’s pretty simple truth that they should not have leaked the info, period. No ifs, ands or buts about it. It’s not about whining, it’s just clearly something that never should have been leaked, but due to the leak allowed those privy to the leak to make a ton of gold.

ANet has a fit if players discover a half reasonable way to farm gold through game play, but they seem to love that the economy provides ample opportunities for the rich to become richer and benefit from insider information.

Let me get my tin foil hat……there we go…now..

The rate at which “Glitches” are found in this game also should ring some bells of “insider” info. I mean, its seems the these are found the minute a patch is released. This is just something that has always bugged me about glitches that occur. A little off topic but I think this also adds to the discussion.

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

Amun Ra.6435:

Balkanwarrior.5132:

I don’t see the issue here. Boohoo, people who aren’t you got insider info about a few things on the market. Last I checked, you can make money on the tp without being one of anets favorites.

Maybe one of these days the super rich can conglomerate in one thread and post their riches. I can only imagine what tom foolery you whiners will pull out of your hats then.

‘’ITS NOT FAIIRRRR. HE CAN BUY LOW AND SELL HIGH.’’

Heaven forbid players want to be on equal chance at the loot…/sigh Someone needs a hug!

It’s not unfair or unequal that some people are more diligent in their reading of forums and other websites and have an excessive amount of time to dedicate to the game… I missed out on this as well being at work yesterday (actually missed out on a lot of profit the last 4-5 patches because of being at work) but that’s my fault for having a life outside the game… had I not.. I would be richer.. but instead I’m richer IRL and can buy REAL things… and that in the end is much more rewarding than making a couple gold in game by gluing myself to the screen all day and night.

He’s talking about the media/wiki players who have the preview access and can actually go to those areas first, even before that little preview was released on Dulfy. They’re the ones who get all of that info first, and they most certainly to act on it even if they can’t disclose info.

Of course that’s a small number of people so is it really a big deal? Eh maybe to some people it is.

Wondering if it even matters now??

As soon as they were introduced, I saw these Celestial recipes dropping like rocks. I’ll be shocked if anyone actually made a profit off them. ….and as another poster already pointed out…. if only dealing with the Mats themselves in “Volume”? … Waste of time when there’s so many other things worth 100x that giving the same markup margins…

dear Shaiden, could i request you change the wording in your OP regarding Dulfy? i’m not here to argue if she deserves in-game gold or now, and tbh, i believe and feel she and her team do what they do because they enjoy it..

while your questions and concerns are legit, they’re worded in a sense where you’re implying that Dulfy did use such “insider information”. even if only as an example. you didn’t have to bring the attention to her name like that.

akamon.2769:

dear Shaiden, could i request you change the wording in your OP regarding Dulfy? i’m not here to argue if she deserves in-game gold or now, and tbh, i believe and feel she and her team do what they do because they enjoy it..

while your questions and concerns are legit, they’re worded in a sense where you’re implying that Dulfy did use such “insider information”. even if only as an example. you didn’t have to bring the attention to her name like that.

Done, as I agree. Apologies.

ilr.9675:

Wondering if it even matters now??

As soon as they were introduced, I saw these Celestial recipes dropping like rocks. I’ll be shocked if anyone actually made a profit off them. ….and as another poster already pointed out…. if only dealing with the Mats themselves in “Volume”? … Waste of time when there’s so many other things worth 100x that giving the same markup margins…

I predicted that would happen. Unless they’re a completionist, a player only needs one or two recipes to craft the exact item they need, and since each Supply Box always gives one recipe, we’re going to get a massive glut of recipes that far outstrips demand.

Not that I’m complaining, as I imagine I’ll be able to pick up every single recipe for my crafters within a week for near-vendor value.

I bought 3 or 4 boxes this morning before realising that it was possibly less costly to just buy the recipes out right off the TP .

Honestly, you had to know the price of zhaitaffy wasn’t going to stay at 5c, its your own fault for not investing. You can trade 5 zhaitaffy for a 20m duration top quality food, & the half hour duration foods sell for 3s. You could of paid 25c for each food.

Due to the surplus, and only 20m duration, i thought 1s for the foods would still be reached in a short amount of time. So I bought 25,000 zhaitaffy at 6c each. I figured that was the bottom, not knowing they would drop for another 9 days after the month ended, but it was still a decent price, eventhough i could of paid 4c each.

Today i sold 25,000 for 19c each for a very nice profit. I didn’t know untill yesterday that zhaitaffy would be tradeable for chests. Knowledge is power, no risk no reward, and it takes money to make money. Everything they say about investing is true. But you aslo need common sense and the ability to do math. When Anet made the exchange rates they were baised off the value of those goods at the time:

Mithril ore was selling around 35c, so 50 needed x 35c = 17.5s
Zhaitaffy was selling for 5c, so 300 needed x 5c = 15s

Baisically all the exchangable goods would of costed between 15s to 25s for each supply box. But now zhaitaffy is the worst way to buy these, because the price rose so high. So i bet most of the zhaitaffy will probably be exchanged for food, because at 15c each, your paying 45 silver per supply box. But 75c for a 20m duration food is still a good price.

Mad Rasputin.7809:

Don’t like seeing Dulfy’s name thrown around like this because I have not seen any indication she has done anything wrong. But I understand her name is one of the most visible out there, so that is why it is used.

As I said in a different thread, I am concerned about the potential for people with access to the ‘live server’ and early information using this information for their own or their friend’s advantage.

I have seen nothing as of yet to indicate that this is happening or is happening. I am just concerned that the potential exists.

The scale of the investments does not really matter if you are talking about abusing early information. Just because an investment is not as profitable as others, does not mean it is not wrong or harming to the economy if it was an investment made with ‘insider’ knowledge.

But please be careful when using names like Dulfy. She has done nothing that warrants any kind of light to be shined on her name and provides a good service to the community. Don’t call her out just because her name is very well known.

Yes the potential of insider trading exists however….. It is not worth the risk just like it is not worth the risk in real live. Insider trading I am sure is frowned upon would likely be a breach of a NDA and will likely get a account banned and locked out of any future pre-release. It is easy to spot too.

As for players acting on news as it is released. Well that is just part of how an economy works.

I sincerely hope ANet comments on this.

ilr.9675:

Wondering if it even matters now??

As soon as they were introduced, I saw these Celestial recipes dropping like rocks. I’ll be shocked if anyone actually made a profit off them. ….and as another poster already pointed out…. if only dealing with the Mats themselves in “Volume”? … Waste of time when there’s so many other things worth 100x that giving the same markup margins…

The profit was in reselling the materials, not getting boxes.
Buy materials—> info on what materials are trade for boxes comes —>prices soar-→resell for profit