Guild Wars 2

While I am grateful for this trading post UI update, I was disappointed that Anet STILL will not be implementing formal trading systems between players.

Right now we still have to take the huge risk of being scammed using the mail system, so myself and most other people only trade items with trusted friends and guildmates.

#FeatureUIPack2014 #NoNewMeaningfulContentUpdates #WaningInterestInPlayingGW2

#OrYouKnowUseTheTPAsItWasIntendedIfYouDoNotWantToGetScammed

Working as intended. They don’t want to handle trade scams.

nearlight.3064:

While I am grateful for this trading post UI update, I was disappointed that Anet STILL will not be implementing formal trading systems between players.

Right now we still have to take the huge risk of being scammed using the mail system, so myself and most other people only trade items with trusted friends and guildmates.

#FeatureUIPack2014 #NoNewMeaningfulContentUpdates #WaningInterestInPlayingGW2

That’s what the TP is for. You want to buy something? Buy it at the TP. You want to sell? Sell it at the TP. You want to trade this item for that? Sell the first item then buy the second. Not ideal, but it does (as someone else mentioned) eliminate trade scams entirely.

As for your “#NoNewMeaningfulContentUpdates”, I think you missed the part where it says “Feature” rather than “Content”.

WTS Dusk, ad nauseum. No thanks.

Blegh. All y’alls are haters! If every other MMO allows this and a trading post system why can’t we?

nearlight.3064:

Blegh. All y’alls are haters! If every other MMO allows this and a trading post system why can’t we?

Because it’s inferior.

It’s less convenient,
It leads to scams
It leads to super annoying chat spam.

Seriously… just used the darned trading post.

As soon as you introduce player-to-player direct trades, chat fills up with trade spam. And no matter what safeguards are applied, there will still be scammers and suckers. It isn’t worth the added annoyance of constant door-to-door salesmen and the pitiful crying of marks who get cheated.

EDIT:

Blegh. All y’alls are haters! If every other MMO allows this and a trading post system why can’t we?

If everyone jumped off a cliff, would “all y’alls” follow?

TP is more efficient, scam-less, instantaneous, and doesn’t require you to stand around doing nothing but spam the chat window over and over again instead of actually playing the game. I’ll take that over player to player trade any day.

Hamfast.8719:

As soon as you introduce player-to-player direct trades, chat fills up with trade spam. And no matter what safeguards are applied, there will still be scammers and suckers. It isn’t worth the added annoyance of constant door-to-door salesmen and the pitiful crying of marks who get cheated.

EDIT:

Blegh. All y’alls are haters! If every other MMO allows this and a trading post system why can’t we?

If everyone jumped off a cliff, would “all y’alls” follow?

According to what I’ve witnessed in wvw, the answer to that is almost always “yes.”

Guhracie.3419:

Hamfast.8719:

A

If everyone jumped off a cliff, would “all y’alls” follow?

According to what I’ve witnessed in wvw, the answer to that is almost always “yes.”

I’m the one leading the charge off a cliff.

Not gonna happen. Get over it. Move along… move along. The horse is dead. Blah blah.

The trade post is interplayer trading just not in the inferior format you want it in. This format ensures a fair, quick, and scam free market.

nearlight.3064:

Blegh. All y’alls are haters! If every other MMO allows this and a trading post system why can’t we?

As someone who was a resident of Spamadan in GW1, I’m extremely thankful for the Trading Post.

I can understand people clamoring for new content, but the insistent demand for a feature that’s obviously not there because of well-considered design decisions does get old 2 years in.

Use TP
+ Safe
+ Convenient
+ Easy
+ Prevents unnecessary spam

And players can still “trade” via in-game mail if they really like the “unsecure” way, or trade only with your guildmates via guild banks (Same Server only)…

Mireles Lore.5942:

The trade post is interplayer trading just not in the inferior format you want it in. This format ensures a fair, quick, and scam free market.

I disagree.

Evon is scamming us all.

I’d like player to player trading as an option alongside the trading post. What if someone wants to pass out items to a large number of guild mates at once? They currently aren’t able to do more than 2 at a time because they get listed as a spammer. Guild Bank isn’t an option because you can’t trust they won’t just steal, then there’s the problem of likely not being anywhere near a guild bank.

Aguri.2896:

What if someone wants to pass out items to a large number of guild mates at once? They currently aren’t able to do more than 2 at a time because they get listed as a spammer. Guild Bank isn’t an option because you can’t trust they won’t just steal, then there’s the problem of likely not being anywhere near a guild bank.

That, to me at least, would be more of a failing on the part of Guild things than trading itself.
Should officers have the ability to disperse items to people within the roster?
I’d think that to be interesting, but not really a “trading” issue.

Of course in GW1 we could only trade to a person that was right there.
Even then it sometimes acted like a hostage negotiation in the past.
“Put the ectos in and you’ll get the mini”
“I don’t see the mini!”

Almost made me want to call up some SWAT unit for crisis intervention.

While I have to admit, I was surprised that there’s no direct player-to-player trading system in the game, with the use of the TP, and there being constant supply and demand, I don’t see a need for it. Anyone you know who you’re willing to trade with directly is probably someone you trust enough to mail you gold for the item anyway

DeathMetal.8264:

Use TP
+ Safe
+ Convenient
+ Easy
+ Prevents unnecessary spam

And players can still “trade” via in-game mail if they really like the “unsecure” way, or trade only with your guildmates via guild banks (Same Server only)…

will it be same server only after the Sept 9 changes? hmm

Forces everyone through the “toll booth” who wants to trade securely.

#playertoplayerisn’tagoodidea #neitherarehashtags

rapthorne.7345:

Anyone you know who you’re willing to trade with directly is probably someone you trust enough to mail you gold for the item anyway

Yeah, that’s what I would think.

Honestly, I can think of two reasons for face-to-face trading in this game: 1) You want to trade between friends/guildies, or gift someone an item. 2) You want to bypass TP taxes.

The former can be done with little trouble by using mail and the latter will only hurt the economy long-term. You will have short-term monetary gains from avoiding the tax, only to have long-term pain in the kitten when inflation is rampant.

azzy.6485:

DeathMetal.8264:

Use TP
+ Safe
+ Convenient
+ Easy
+ Prevents unnecessary spam

And players can still “trade” via in-game mail if they really like the “unsecure” way, or trade only with your guildmates via guild banks (Same Server only)…

will it be same server only after the Sept 9 changes? hmm

No but you can’t withdraw until 3 days of being in a guild.

nearlight.3064:

Blegh. All y’alls are haters! If every other MMO allows this and a trading post system why can’t we?

Because they don’t want you evading taxes. The end.

Aguri.2896:

I’d like player to player trading as an option alongside the trading post. What if someone wants to pass out items to a large number of guild mates at once? They currently aren’t able to do more than 2 at a time because they get listed as a spammer. Guild Bank isn’t an option because you can’t trust they won’t just steal, then there’s the problem of likely not being anywhere near a guild bank.

I would think this would be better addressed by asking to have the mail limit raised than anything to do with player-to-player trading. No one is trading anything back, just a desire to pass out more than 3 items at a time.

Also, even if there were player-to-player trading, I would imagine it would have quantity limits on it even more than mail, as it would seem a perfect vehicle for nefarious people to distribute ill-gotten gains.

Atlas.9704:

nearlight.3064:

Blegh. All y’alls are haters! If every other MMO allows this and a trading post system why can’t we?

As someone who was a resident of Spamadan in GW1, I’m extremely thankful for the Trading Post.

Me too. I really wish Anet would have come up with a TP system for GW1. They did eventually add in a trade chat channel but some players still spammed local and zone chat.

With the TP if I have a valuable item I don’t have to sit there saying it once every 2 minutes for hours trying to sell it with most offers being way lower than what I’m asking for. And if I want to buy something I don’t have to sit there all day saying “WTB” and the only offers I get are from people who want more than I can afford and/or more than what perceived value among the community is. In other MMOs that have a TP type system, I prefer to use that only.

So I am very grateful for the system we have in place and I wouldn’t want it any other way.

Goes to Dry Top and shouts “I am the great Charrholio! I need TP for my Skritt Hole”

Windsagio.1340:

nearlight.3064:

Blegh. All y’alls are haters! If every other MMO allows this and a trading post system why can’t we?

Because it’s inferior.

It’s less convenient,
It leads to scams
It leads to super annoying chat spam.

LOLOLOLOL and the overly strict spam system in GW2 aint annoying, where you type 4 times in Map and get locked out when trying to lead a party

Where you have a freind start playing and have to MAIL stuff back and forth but get blocked because you mailed then too fast

and nothing more annoying than the spam we have right now from a certain PVP gold seller

5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

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5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

5:44: P.M WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

nearlight.3064:

Blegh. All y’alls are haters! If every other MMO allows this and a trading post system why can’t we?

Every other MMO has static quests and you cant’ deposit mats remotely too. This game was a rethink of may traditional MMO tropes. The fact is, the only reason that person to person trade needs to be in game is to circumvent the gold sink in the auction.

Because mail is more convenient if you’re just sending someone something. And since it is a good gold synch it really working as intended.

Micro Hard.3601:

5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

5:44: P.M WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k

With the 4 posts anti spam wouldnt work

Kohlteth.3715:

With the 4 posts anti spam wouldnt work

all they have to do is change the presentation of the original message

want to sell, wts, sell, selling, dusk c/o, ect.

You also need to understand that it’s not just ONE person that will be doing this, it’ll be the entire community.

explaining this really ruins everyones fun -_-

Kohlteth.3715:

With the 4 posts anti spam wouldnt work

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5:43 P.M: WTS Dusk, c/o 1.1k -2d

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Wanderer.3248:

nearlight.3064:

Blegh. All y’alls are haters! If every other MMO allows this and a trading post system why can’t we?

Because they don’t want you evading taxes. The end.

Yup. This is basically why I wanted this. I’m a really greedy kitten xD

How about a compromise, able to trade with our friends ?

Maybe have a cooldown where they have to have been friends a week or something

Kohlteth.3715:

How about a compromise, able to trade with our friends ?

But you can already mail things to friends. I do it all the time.

Kohlteth.3715:

How about a compromise, able to trade with our friends ?

Maybe have a cooldown where they have to have been friends a week or something

Better yet, make your own friend’s guild, put stuff in gbank. Since you’re friends, you trust each other right?

This game has relatively few gold sinks. The TP fee is one of them. In addition to all the other downsides to direct PtP trading mentioned, the fact that people are generally cheap kittens would mean that any high-priced it would be hawked in chat to avoid paying the TP fee, thus circumventing the gold sink. This is not a good idea.

Vol.7601:

#OrYouKnowUseTheTPAsItWasIntendedIfYouDoNotWantToGetScammed

I don’t think that hashtag will catch on; it’s far too long.

Windsagio.1340:

nearlight.3064:

Blegh. All y’alls are haters! If every other MMO allows this and a trading post system why can’t we?

Because it’s inferior.

It’s less convenient,
It leads to scams
It leads to super annoying chat spam.

Wrong. GW2’s implementation is inferior. You get suppressed after 3 mailings. With player-to-player trading, it’s unlimited. It’s not less convenient either. You still have to enter someone’s name, add items, click send, click ok. It’s only convenient by not having to go to a mailbox.

Are you kidding me? You can’t get scammed if it’s p2p interaction. Both people would have to hit accept for the transaction to occur. The TP-only method also has a tax percentage, which could also be considered a “scam”.

Trade chats are always helpful, whether you want to deny it or not. You can get real-time updates on items, without having an extra UI panel open, and actively seeking items. A trade chat is like a passive ticker you see on those business channels.

nexxe.7081:

Are you kidding me? You can’t get scammed if it’s p2p interaction. Both people would have to hit accept for the transaction to occur. The TP-only method also has a tax percentage, which could also be considered a “scam”.

Are YOU kidding me? GW1 had a “Both parties must accept” p2p trade system too, and people got scammed ALL the time. Here’s some common scam techniques:

1. Buyer puts the price in silver instead of gold. Seller doesn’t notice and hits Accept. Scammed!

2. Seller advertises for an item, but puts in a different item with the same icon. Buyer doesn’t notice and hits Accept. Scammed!

3. Seller advertises for an item in bulk, but in the final trade, puts in one less 0. Buyer doesn’t notice (very easy to happen when you’re buying materials in the thousands) and hits Accept. Scammed!

You grossly underestimate the amount of people who are too inattentive, too tired, too drunk/high or too greedy to stop themselves falling for scams. “Who cares? Just let them pay the price for their own stupidity!”, I hear you say? Well, each of those people will still go screaming to ANet, who has to spend time reviewing their complaint and verifying/banning the scammer. (Because why should criminal scumbags get to enjoy the easy life?)

And if you choose to do nothing at all, each of those players will quit, depriving ANet of future revenue, and further badmouth ANet for “terrible customer service”, costing them further new players who hear that GW2 is a “we don’t care what happens to you” kind of game.

No, it’s far better to just protect people from their own failings and make all trades go through the TP in the first place. Prevention is better than a cure.

Not to mention that the TP taxes are a crucial element of keeping game inflation under control, but that’s already been mentioned before.

It’s true there was quite a bit of scamming in Guild Wars 1.

Edit: Trying to trade a dedicated minipet instead of an undedicated one was another. Same icon because it’s the same pet. Very often new people who don’t know better are the targets of scams.

It’s a gold sink.

They have never ever said you cannot trade outside of the TP. They have said you will get no support at all if you do so and things go wrong for either side of the trade.

People have commented on the TP being scamless. I would not be surprised to find that the TP fees add up to more than all in game currency lost to scammers combined in GW1. Spreading the loss out so that everyone playing the game (well technically only those who use the TP, but isnt that likely to be pretty much everyone eventually ?) is affected to a lesser degree in an effort to prevent a few people who don’t pay attention from losing more seems like a poor trade to me.

I don’t think that it is a matter of preventing scams. “We are going to tax Joe, John, Jack, and everyone else because Sam is an idiot,” in a game just seems like a poor idea to me. I would like to think more highly of Anet than that.

I believe that the reality is more a matter of having another nearly universal gold sink in game.

The convenience of the TP is nice, but in other games I frequently undersell items in order to help newer players (or at least those without large stockpiles of in game currency) get something nice without it being a handout. In GW2 that is not really a viable option.

How can you be sure that the items you are underselling are actually going to a player in need though? More than likely, it’s just being bought up by a flipper who’s going to turn right around and resell it for an even bigger profit than normal. If you want to be charitable, I think that spontaneous charity like giving the item away to someone who expresses admiration for it is much better.

Of course the biggest reason why the TP is here to stay is because of its role as a gold sink. It cannot be overstated just how important this function is; runaway MMO inflation is a terrible, terrible thing. It’s the kind of disaster that can destroy games entirely. It preventing scams is only a secondary benefit.

Zaxares.5419:

How can you be sure that the items you are underselling are actually going to a player in need though? More than likely, it’s just being bought up by a flipper who’s going to turn right around and resell it for an even bigger profit than normal.

I am very careful. Have been for years.

Zaxares.5419:

If you want to be charitable, I think that spontaneous charity like giving the item away to someone who expresses admiration for it is much better.

I disagree. Helping someone to earn something they like, even if they end up paying only a fraction of full market value, is much better in my opinion. If we were talking about food, warm clothing in the winter, etc I would agree with you. For a luxury item within a luxury (the game itself) I do not.

Zaxares.5419:

Of course the biggest reason why the TP is here to stay is because of its role as a gold sink. It cannot be overstated just how important this function is; runaway MMO inflation is a terrible, terrible thing. It’s the kind of disaster that can destroy games entirely. It preventing scams is only a secondary benefit.

I agree that the TP is a gold sink (as stated in my previous post). I don’t particularly care for it because I find player to player trading to be part of the social aspect of the genre, but I am not particularly upset by it either.

The TP does not prevent scams from occuring. It does make it possible for Anet to disavow any responsibility for scams that do occur. I expect that it does reduce the number of scams though.

ANET do not want to deploy the interplayer trading because they do not want it to be abused as a gold selling method.

regarding the possible scamming, i believe that they did think about the Cash-on-Delivery method like in LOTRO, where the transaction is done using in-game mail and the receiver have to pay the requested amount before the item can be pick from the mail, but the main reason for not deploying it is as i mentioned above.