Guild Wars 2

If you’re transferring items between friends, mail will suffice. It you’re trying to make a transaction, TP is more efficient.

I believe putting in P2P is a waste of developer’s time as it will only be utilized by a subset of players who think they can make more money outside of TP, then realize nothing has changed, then revert back to TP.

The lack of P2P trading was one of my biggest disappointments about this game – such a big step back in the genre! While the TP is good enough for 99% of our trading needs it’s not perfect for everything and has many downsides (and I don’t even mean the fees).

I see NO single good reason not to have direct trading interface in this game. Just implement it well:
- make it clearly display what items are offered,
- and let us price check offered items with a single click (just how we can “buy more on TP” item in our inventory)
so there’s no possibility of doing any tricks.

Also there’s NO WAY direct trading option would have any impact on the global economy. Even if some players would waste time trying to sell or buy something locally at a different price it would be a drop in the ocean of global trades.

While I had only good experience with trading by mail, it was only very low value items so I wasn’t risking much. But what if someone has or wants something very rare and expensive? Why do we have to take risks? Even if I report a scammer I most likely won’t get the item/money back, he’ll get a couple days ban and that’s all.
Also, why have all the extra work for support team when a direct trade interface done right would be enough?

Also there’s NO WAY direct trading option would have any impact on the global economy.

Yes there is actually. TP is a form of gold sink to control inflation. Adding P2P without cost diminishes the inflation control mechanism. Adding a cost to P2P makes it no difference than TP.

If someone wants to sell a very rare or buy a very rare item, they can post it on TP with no risk of scam, and get done with it. Everyone can see it, and anyone can fill that order even when you’re offline. The alternative in P2P is you’ll have to advertise your intention with WTB/WTS in chat actively. TP seems more efficient and easy.

Wazabi.1439:

Also there’s NO WAY direct trading option would have any impact on the global economy.

Yes there is actually. TP is a form of gold sink to control inflation. Adding P2P without cost diminishes the inflation control mechanism. Adding a cost to P2P makes it no difference than TP.

If someone wants to sell a very rare or buy a very rare item, they can post it on TP with no risk of scam, and get done with it. Everyone can see it, and anyone can fill that order even when you’re offline. The alternative in P2P is you’ll have to advertise your intention with WTB/WTS in chat actively. TP seems more efficient and easy.

they can still put a tax on trades. the only way around the tax then would be if they bartered items instead of buying/selling.

if you’re paranoid people are going to try to barter with so much risk just to get that extra %, then can we at least agree on a cash on delivery? the cash on delivery system can still use a tax just like the TP, and you can’t barter through it. there, done and done.

Okay Janson, you answered by saying that we can just report the player. but whats the point if it does nothing to protect us?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Scammed-in-game/first#post111719

GaileGray.9587:

Tase — it’s really difficult, nearly impossible, for our team to intercede in what are, essentially, “Gentlemen’s agreements.” You said the price was “too good to be true” and yet you accepted it and got burned. Like the guy in the alley who says he’s going to sell you a “Rolex” watch for 10 bucks?

I sympathize, we all sympathize, but getting in the middle of every transaction is just not in the cards. Reporting the situation is good — it makes us aware of the unscrupulous players and, once highlighted, may allow us to track a history of bad behavior that results in their removal from the game. But it’s truly unlikely that we will be able to give that item or gold back for you.

In all transactions, use caution and care, just as you do in real life.

at least give us a cash on delivery.

Wazabi.1439:

Also there’s NO WAY direct trading option would have any impact on the global economy.

Yes there is actually. TP is a form of gold sink to control inflation. Adding P2P without cost diminishes the inflation control mechanism. Adding a cost to P2P makes it no difference than TP.

If someone wants to sell a very rare or buy a very rare item, they can post it on TP with no risk of scam, and get done with it. Everyone can see it, and anyone can fill that order even when you’re offline. The alternative in P2P is you’ll have to advertise your intention with WTB/WTS in chat actively. TP seems more efficient and easy.

It can’t be that – trading by mail is also getting around the gold sink. A direct trade interface would be simply a safer way to do that. I’m sure that over 99% of trade volume would still happen on the TP anyway so the effect on the economy would be completely negligible.

About the rare items you can’t be more wrong. Have a look at the top exotics, some of them aren’t available for sale at all, and some have gigantic spread between top buy and sell orders. Putting an item on the TP does NOT guarantee a sale! Often you’ll end up being undercut over and over again and lose a lot of money on reposting or wait for days and see the price drop.

Current state of the game is ridiculous. I stand near a person who has something that I want and I have something he wants but we cannot safely exchange the items without RISK!

That means spending resources to develop a system that is used 1% of the time?

Putting on TP doesn’t guarantee a sell, that’s why there’s also a buy order. It doesn’t guarantee a buy either. Difference is, if people wants to buy/sell something, they can still go to the TP and put up a price that they think they will pay/be paid for. Thanks to undercutting, I can buy cheap stuffs.

Say an item sells for 1g in TP. You won’t be able to sell yours via P2P by more than that (unless you con him). If you’re willing to sell at a cheaper price, might as well undercut it in TP. The only thing difference of P2P is the hassle of advertising your sale, and saving the 15% selling cost. It P2P is costless, then a gold sink mechanism form TP is avoided provided you think the 15% savings is worth your trouble to sell it manualy. If it is implemented, it’s not worth the trouble going P2P.

TL; DR I am sorry i am not going to read all the posts, it is to boring after i read Janson’s

the only way you would REMOTLY think that the TP is better is if you are business man and you are getting something from it…. oh wait you are from Anet team, so ofc you would promote it.

in no way is it better to have the TP only, well maybe there is an upside cause there are not ALOT of people spamming trade saying SELLING ******, that is the upside. the down side is the more expsive you put the item the more you guys charge us, so no unless you take the charge off, it is not worth it to have ONLY TP UP, and for that reason i would rahter have C.O.D and P2P trade which i can gaurantee getting all the gold than getting someone taking a peice of my cake while THAT SOMEONE COUGH ANET COUGH just only gave me TP and advertised to the whole world,

TL; DR no C.O.D and P2P is always and will always be better

I found it absolutely dumbfounding for the game not to have player to player trading. I really have no words for ArenaNet’s refusal to add it despite the high demand…

I think you can modify the TP to allow the trade between players. If players work out a deal have an option in the trading post where the buyer and seller can be specified by name and neither gets their item until both input their part.

Also, could you please have the initial selling interface show the seller the total cost to them for selling an item? Having it split between listing and selling fees is fine but have all fees listed up front so that the seller knows at a glance what amount they actually get.

Lack of a direct trade or COD option is a major negative for me in this game. I will not make items that cost a lot to produce as the trading post tax makes it nearly impossible to profit, and if you get undercut you lose the 5% over and over. Many items listed on the trader look like they have profit but after the tax the seller didn’t factor in they lose money. The buy order minimum setting should be at least 15% higher than vendor. I will not sell via map either as lack of secure trading makes that much too risky. I know Arenanet doesn’t care if I keep playing as I already bought the box and they don’t charge monthly, but when the first expansion comes out if they don’t have a resolution to this there’s no way I’m buying it.

Yawg.1294:

Wazabi.1439:

Also there’s NO WAY direct trading option would have any impact on the global economy.

Yes there is actually. TP is a form of gold sink to control inflation. Adding P2P without cost diminishes the inflation control mechanism. Adding a cost to P2P makes it no difference than TP.

If someone wants to sell a very rare or buy a very rare item, they can post it on TP with no risk of scam, and get done with it. Everyone can see it, and anyone can fill that order even when you’re offline. The alternative in P2P is you’ll have to advertise your intention with WTB/WTS in chat actively. TP seems more efficient and easy.

It can’t be that – trading by mail is also getting around the gold sink. A direct trade interface would be simply a safer way to do that. I’m sure that over 99% of trade volume would still happen on the TP anyway so the effect on the economy would be completely negligible.

This, one hundreds times over. Mail would also be going around the taxes wouldn’t it? at least make it safer for the players for something that already exists then.

In most games the trader/auction fees are a luxury tax, that you had options around but paid for the ease of use. Here it is a sales tax, no way around. Also, there is no way to barter, everything is converted to coin. You might say use mail, but making “gentleman’s agreements” with complete strangers with 100% anonymity and no recourse isn’t very smart.

Silvermink.1456:

In most games the trader/auction fees are a luxury tax, that you had options around but paid for the ease of use. Here it is a sales tax, no way around. Also, there is no way to barter, everything is converted to coin. You might say use mail, but making “gentleman’s agreements” with complete strangers with 100% anonymity and no recourse isn’t very smart.

I have to agree; in this one way, Guild Wars 2 feels restrictive; while, otherwise, it feels open and expansive. Trading through the mails is risky and very dependent on the mail system working. Right now, with all the systems working, it’s not such a big deal, but when the mail was down and the TP was broken, I was very frustrated. I had guild mates that needed some drops I had: I couldn’t even throw the items down on the ground for them to pick up (of course this IS an improvement over lineage2 where your gear could fall on the ground when you died and be picked up by anyone nearby!).

I see the lack of P2P trading as a vulnerability to the game that really has no available remedy right now. Hopefully, the mail and TP won’t malfunction anymore, and all will remain well.

Regards

I can not think of anything exploitative about a direct trade system except gold farmers.

If the trade system is built properly, then people can not get scammed using it.

But a direct trade system allows gold farmers to freely transfer gold between new and old accounts. With the restriction on using mail based on account status (character level, achievements, etc) I believe that is a huge concern for ANet.

So thank all the gold farmers for not having a direct trade system (and all the people purchasing gold from them).

I am not convinced that ANet is concerned with bypassing the money sink aspect of direct trades. We still have a free to use mail system in which we can mail money or items to any player if our account has enough status to access the mail function.

I dont see the harm in having a trade window for people to give things to other players. There is no cure for stupid. No number of precautions and safety checks can stop all bad from happening. A trade window lets the minority give items to friends in a lot faster and more convenient way. It would never stop or interfere with the AH in any large meaningful way. I mean WOW is proof of that many years of that and people all generally still use the AH its just another option for people you know.

I don’t want player to player trading. All it does is cause chat to look like this:

Phantasm: WTS THIEF DAGGER EXOTIC 20G!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Abriel: WTS stack of 300 carrots 24 silver!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Charrzarrdroar: WTB leather!
Goatman: WTS TWILIGHT ARBOR SKINS PM OFFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!1!!!11!
Phantasm: WTS THIEF DAGGER EXOTIC 20G!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really ugly. Usually when it boils down to this, people are using macros to spam their messages, or the chat is moving so fast you can’t read anything. I MUCH prefer the BLTC.

You know there is a spam filter built into the game so you can’t send more than like 5 messages without getting stopped for a while.

But it sounds like you don’t want P2P trading because you don’t want chat to inconvenience you. Which is selfish.

Basically you are all posting decent enough debates on the merits, but you obviously failed your ‘listen check’.
It is NOT going to happen, AN has no plans, isn’t even interested in looking at it. They have been adamant on some subjects, this is one of them.

?Try again in six months to a year?

Janson Smalling.1850:

Yes, you can report that player as Scamming.

I really wish this were true. I’ve been scammed plenty of times, reported and nothing happens to the player, lost probably 5 gold just from mail scamming. I really wish there was a p2p system in game, it would make the experience more enjoyable. Or even a C.O.D. mailing system would be good.

So we can magicaly post items on the trading post and the item is removed from our invantory. but yet we cant magicaly have the money in our pockets?
we have to go see a trader and remove our cash from the trading post. please explain that to me.

Janson Smalling

Yes, you can report that player as Scamming.

EvE Online player reporting here.

What about the “gray cases”?
Who is going to decide the exact point where a certain deal is a scam and a similar one is not?

Also, I am not sure how being able to C.O.D. mail is bad. Put a tax on COD maybe or only allow COD between “friends” or guildies.
Players vs players trading is a feature offered since text based games made in the past millenium.
Does GW2 being “new concept MMO” => we can’t get so incredibly basic features because the developers can’t find an innovative way to do it?

Wazabi

Given all these factor, it’s better to just rely in TP. You fail to provide sufficient justification to put in 2 system and obviously only considered that from a personal standpoint.

Simple example: guy X wants exotic / rare Orichalcum sword crafted.
Guy Y sends stuff and then guy X disappears / deletes characters / bounces stuff between multiple accounts of just puts it on the TP.
Once on the TP guy Z buys it and makes a nice bow.

What now? Guy Y really worked hard to farm the insane materials, really wanted to use his sword today.

Yet:

- He’ll have to open a ticket and wait for who knows how long.

- What about guy Z? Will ArenaNet confiscate his now soulbound bow and give it to X who wanted a sword?

Without a 1 vs 1 trading system I can see a lot of ramifications coming and not all nice playing for the player base.

They have clarified that you can trade p2p using the mail system. If the deal is not as planned you can turn them in for scamming.

Seems like a hassle for Anet getting involved like that though.

I agree that P2P trading is just unneeded. I don’t see any reason for it to be a feature. If someone wants an item, they can usually find it on the Trading Post. This eliminates a lot of scamming. Sure I suppose scamming can still exist by saying “Mail me this and I’ll mail you this” and then taking the first item and leaving. Most people, hopefully, won’t fall for that though.

If you want to give someone an item you can easily mail it to them. If you and your friend want to trade (to give each other a discount or something) you can easily just send each other stuff through the mail, since you can trust one another.

The Trading Post is also easier to control in terms of the economy and making pricing fair. Once the initial kinks get worked out I don’t think anyone will feel the need to have a P2P trade system anymore.

A COD system needs to be added to the in-game mail. Without it I will never craft anything for anyone not in my guild. MMO’s in general are notorious for having people run off with mats or money all because they can hide behind a computer screen in someones basement. Sorry but I don’t fully trust the “report scammer” system as I’m sure it doesn’t guarantee that I will get what I lost (money or crafting mats) back at a time when every single copper I have to my name is important.

Just gonna chime in here, I completely agree with how GW2 is handling trading. If you got something to sell, put it on the TP, period.

This avoids so much of the scamming issues, it doesn’t require gazillions of hours making a P2P trade system that is scam proof, it avoids much of the scam issues that can bog down personnel, etc.

A P2P trading mechanism is needed for people selling high end mats or exotics since supply and demand of that item is not very stable. Putting it on the auction does not guarantee a sale so it’s not worth posting due to losing 5% of the listing price every time you have to relist the item.

GOSU.9574:

Just gonna chime in here, I completely agree with how GW2 is handling trading. If you got something to sell, put it on the TP, period.

This avoids so much of the scamming issues, it doesn’t require gazillions of hours making a P2P trade system that is scam proof, it avoids much of the scam issues that can bog down personnel, etc.

C.O.D. mail is a basic feature that I could develop in under an hour, and I’m not even a professional so imagine how fast they could do it(unless they get paid hourly but i doubt thats the case). There’s literally 0% chance of possible scam unless you’re a complete idiot and don’t read the trade right.

And their fear of it damaging the global economy is just not well thought out. It may lower supply on the TP, but thats a great thing, then prices will skyrocket and it becomes a sellers market, which is more fun. And also, the point of an MMO is to be social. If i dump my junk into an anonymous TP system, I dont ever have to talk to anyone in my whole game experience. That’s wrong.

The only downside to making P2P trade is the chat spam that will happen. Simple fix: trade channel, with the main channel having spam filters for string like “WTB, WTS” etc.

RoosterBrewster.2183:

A P2P trading mechanism is needed for people selling high end mats or exotics since supply and demand of that item is not very stable. Putting it on the auction does not guarantee a sale so it’s not worth posting due to losing 5% of the listing price every time you have to relist the item.

This as well ^ and taking a 15% cut from my 3+ gold exotic? no thanks. Maybe 5% for a successful C.O.D. (obviously you can’t remove the gold sink attribute if adding such a system). But anything higher on a high end item is taking a huge huge loss and not worth my time getting the mats, leveling my craft to 400 and waiting for the sale.

Masterpyro.4310:

C.O.D. mail is a basic feature that I could develop in under an hour, and I’m not even a professional so imagine how fast they could do it(unless they get paid hourly but i doubt thats the case).

This^^

People tend to think that the simplest feature takes months of mental and coding work to create. which causes them to argue it not being worthy enough of the time spent when it literally takes no time at all.

My friend who’s hosted his own Ragnarok online private server has even made not just a Cash on delivery system, but a trade system by himself, he doesn’t even know much about coding except for some basic stuff you can pretty much google for. since trading is just the transfer of item codes.

I actually like the TP over P2P trading. Mainly because it avoids the main gathering point city where everyone stands around, doesn’t play the game, and spams trade chat for hours. How utterly tedious. In WoW, if you weren’t in SW or Ogr, cities were ghost towns. GW1 had LA district 1 (which moved as expacs came out). It’s quite nice to be out questing, get a cool drop that I can’t use, and immediately list it. Or, level up, realize my boots are low level and quickly browse for new wares. Beats having to port to THE major city to spam trade for “WTB lvl 60 leather boots.”
Yes, COD mail would be a good scam-proof way to work around no P2P trading. But I think that’s the point, Anet doesn’t want direct sales because it will create economic trade centers which detracts from their gameplay ideals.

+1 for CoD on mail please!

C.o.d wouldn’t work for bartering

C.o.d wouldn’t work for bartering

that’s the point, so it can be taxed, for those worried about trading getting around that.

I think the TP will be alright if it gets some MAJOR improvements.

Ziggy.7319:

C.o.d wouldn’t work for bartering

that’s the point, so it can be taxed, for those worried about trading getting around that.

That’s a stupid idea though. People should be able to say to someone they’re running a dungeon or something with “I’ll trade you this item for that one” without having to worry about getting ripped off via the mail system.