Guild Wars 2

So I want to open this up with the note that I have four legendaries, don’t care about crafting and think their prices are perfectly fine – they’re how much people are willing to pay.

Anyway.

A lot of people complain that precursors need a better way to be obtained and mention crafting. So what are their ideas on this? What materials would you need? Spades and spades of t6? Account-bound materials obtained through certain actions?

I’m just curious – enlighten me.

I’d start with a base of mithril, orichalcum, elder and ancient wood, and globs of ectoplasm. Lots and lots of it, with time gated crafting steps.

You can sprinkle in some other materials or introduce some new account bound components, but the big thing is making it consume copious amounts of metal and wood, with pressure on ectoplasm, with a regular time gate.

You’ll see their ideas on he various precursor threads in this subforum, the crafting one, and I think I saw one in the general discussion or maybe it was hiding within a thread about that interview.

I’d like a mix of crafting and scavenger hunt, Mawdrey style. Say, craft 4 Ascended weapons, throw them in the forge for an ascended Pre-Precursor. Each one has a list of 50 skill points it needs to be taken to and imbued at (it would have a checklist in the tooltip so you don’t need to remember it all). Once it’s been imbued you get a list of 10 champions you need to slay. Once all of that is done it becomes an Ascended version of the precursor you wanted.

Personally i think one of the main reasons why they havent implemented it yet (apart from time constraints) is the economical impact a sudden flush of new precursors would have on the items that are used to craft the other legendary gifts, most notably t6 common, rare and fine mats, silver doubloons, etc.

I play since head start and got my first (and only) Legendary, Juggernaut, in about 7 months. For me it was a fantastic journey but back in those days, the economy and players wasnt as focussed on precursors and legendaries as it seems now and the wealth gap wasnt as high. Right now it seems a daunting task to do for new players and even though i have lots of gold (or assets to sell) now, i stopped working on crafting my 2nd legendary after the wardrobe changes because in my eyes, they arent worth it anymore because their novelty has worn off.

Here is my take:

I dont think it makes sense to implement it for the old pres/leggies, we need a whole new system and new legendaries, that require new mats so everybody more or less starts on the same page. Leave the old pres/leggies how they are.

In general, the new legendaries should be account bound and their acquisition should require alot of completed achievements from all over the game rather than alot of mats you have to farm or buy with gold.

The precursor should take a couple of months to acquire and should be limited per account, a good way to do this would be to award it, if you completed all achievements of each Living Story Episode per Season. That would be 2 per year and this way, Anet makes sure that players play the game on a regular basis.

The Gifts:

They should focus more on achievements from all over the game rather than gold, so lets see what we got:

WvW: A token for completing the tournament meta achievement, also 2 per year.
Dungens: Dungeon Master title Token. OF course this presents the problem that it can only be done once, so twice a year, this achievement will be reset, without losing the title or the already claimed achievement points. After the reset, you have to run each Dungeon Path once again to get the token, maybe reward 5 AP for completing a whole dungeon to make up for the frequent dungeon runner repeatable achievement.
Map Completion: Should be required for new legendaries as well.
Personal Story: Awards a Token for each character
PvP: 2 Legendary Reward Tracks per Year that award a token each
World Bosses: Kill each World Boss and free each temple once for a token, also resets twice a year
Jumping Puzzles: Complete each JP for a token, resets twice a year
Fractals: Reach rank 50 for a token, resets twice a year
Crafting: The gifts are crafted at lvl 500, so you will need 2 specific crafts at lvl 500 depending on the legendary you craft.
Monthly: A token for each monthly Achievement completed, you will need 5-6 per Legendary

Thats about what i think should be put achievement wise into forging a new legendary. It requires alot of work but i think everything is manageable within 6 months and its timegated for twice a year. Of course, depending on your favourite playstyle, there are some things some players will absolutely hate to get the token from. To mitigate that a little bit, you could be awarded a token of your choice from achievement chests, for every 2.5k or 5k AP accumulated.

Should there be tradeable mats involved? The only reason why tradeable goods should be included in forging a legendary is because Anet makes money with selling gems. The process of acquiring all tokens will require players to log in on a general basis, which is good for Anet. If they want to implement a gold sink into the process, I would make it a gem store item that costs a couple of thousand gems. That way, players who rather spend real money on the game, can buy it directly for a price that doesnt change and players who rather earn gold in game can do that as well. The rising gem/gold exchange rate takes inflation into consideration.

I am working on a completely different approach linking the discovery of precursors to the LW.

Some brains here and I have a question. Currently, there is a work-load generated by discovering precursors through the MF, basically all the materials to craft exotic weapons. If another discovery method was introduced, that workload would begin to diminish. Any thoughts on the size of that workload as compared to Ascended armor crafting workload or other workloads?

Psientist.6437:

I am working on a completely different approach linking the discovery of precursors to the LW.

Some brains here and I have a question. Currently, there is a work-load generated by discovering precursors through the MF, basically all the materials to craft exotic weapons. If another discovery method was introduced, that workload would begin to diminish. Any thoughts on the size of that workload as compared to Ascended armor crafting workload or other workloads?

Crafting rare weapons to throw into the forge is most likely the #1 mat sink for mithril/elder wood and t5 fine mats. Exotic weapons dont get crafted to forge precursors as the cheapest exotics on the tp are cheaper than crafting them yourself.
However, due to the high price of t5 mats, t6 mats are also high in price due to promoting t5 not being profitable.
t6 fine mats still have a decent sink in crafting exotics but that is more for leveling your crafting professions. I would say that a good chunk of all t6 fine mats is being used for the legendary gifts, so if your method means that alot of precursors would be introduced to the market at the same time, it would mean that the will be a huge demand spike for t6 mats. This will be partly offset by t5 mats getting cheaper and used for promoting them to t6 but i dont think it will be nearly enough.

Thank you Wanze. I have a good instincts for systems in general, but I do not participate actively in the Tyrian economy and miss certain facts. The workload of exotic weapons is connected to precursor discovery though, just not as directly I has had thought.

If we ever do get a new discovery method for precursors (and if we are ever to see legendary armor or new legendary weapons, a new method is likely), then the stablest method would smear the occurrence of discovery and let the market react rationally.

Unfortunately, it is system rationale for mmo economic ecosystems to react exuberantly.

I don’t think they would want to use materials you can trade, so they will probably use the ascended crafring materials. Which leads to thinking if they are planning on making the precursors ascended items.

Or maybe they are making new legendaries and they want to release crafting with them, so the new precursors do not sell for 10000 gold.

This topic has been beaten to death. Why do people insist on starting new threads concerning precursor crafting. Anyone with half a brain knows that precursor crafting is not gonna happen. It’s been 2 years and nothing has been done to precursors whatsoever. If it was such a priority, they would have done something a long time ago. The economy is too far set to implement something that would upset the economy so much on an item with such “focus” as precursors. Anet simply just turned a blind eye to them or maybe their solution was making ascended weapons which have the same stats as legendaries so problem solved in their eyes.

Sauzo,

Point of clarification; the stats for Legendary weapons were raised to match Ascended gear. Your final point is inaccurate to the point of irrelevant.

I can not speak for others but I like to discuss new precursor discovery methods for several reasons. In general, I am compelled to get my hands into complex systems and a new precursor discovery method is a complex system. As well, when the workload of crafting ascended gear runs dry or for reasons not connected to workload, we will likely see an expansion of Legendary weapons and/or armor. When that happens, we will indeed see a new discovery method for precursors.

If Arenanet et al were not interested in a new discovery method for precursors, they are being irresponsible when they say it is still on their radar. A recent post from Colin mentions precursor crafting as well, albeit as a general description of the speed of developing new content.

Time Gated Materials (time gate) + Icy Runestones (gold sink) + karma (account bound currency) + Random items that are severely undervalued (Mystic Coins) = prec

All in all it should be enough to make the average player feel like buying the precursor/gambling is a viable alternative.

So here is my plan
30 days worth of time-gated materials + 500 Icy Runestones + 150,000 Karma + 100 Mystic Coins = precursor

You can expand this and reward everyone with a precursor token, which in turn would be combined with three named exotics in the forge to make your desired weapon

i.e.

Precursor Token + Ebonblade + Breath of Flame + Cobalt = Dusk
Precursor Token + Charrzooka + Exterminator + Levvi = The Hunter

The target would be for them to cost less than currently available Pres. I would go with a four part recipe.

Part 1: Forge four exotic weapons of the same type (ie 4 specific greatswords) that are currently selling in the 1-5g range, and MF them, you get one “Initiator [weapon type] blade.”

Part 2: Forge any four different Dungeon Token exotic weapons of that type, to receive one “Initator [weapon type] hilt.”

Part 3: Forge the copycat weapon for the Precursor (for example Khrysaor for Greatswords), and combine that with three stacks of Bloodstone Dust to receive one “[Precursor name] Mold” (they would need to greatly up the drop rates of the copycat weapons, of course, perhaps even allowing you to directly craft account-bound versions of them if it became an issue).

Part 4: Forge these three elements with a “Heart of Zhaitan” item that you get two of each time you complete the personal story (retroactively rewarded to those that have completed it).

The result is one Account Bound precursor of that type. I’m no market expert, but my target on all those materials would be a total cost in the 20g range or so.

Ohoni.6057:

The target would be for them to cost less than currently available Pres. I would go with a four part recipe.

Part 1: Forge four exotic weapons of the same type (ie 4 specific greatswords) that are currently selling in the 1-5g range, and MF them, you get one “Initiator [weapon type] blade.”

Part 2: Forge any four different Dungeon Token exotic weapons of that type, to receive one “Initator [weapon type] hilt.”

Part 3: Forge the copycat weapon for the Precursor (for example Khrysaor for Greatswords), and combine that with three stacks of Bloodstone Dust to receive one “[Precursor name] Mold” (they would need to greatly up the drop rates of the copycat weapons, of course, perhaps even allowing you to directly craft account-bound versions of them if it became an issue).

Part 4: Forge these three elements with a “Heart of Zhaitan” item that you get two of each time you complete the personal story (retroactively rewarded to those that have completed it).

The result is one Account Bound precursor of that type. I’m no market expert, but my target on all those materials would be a total cost in the 20g range or so.

part 3 is a bit flawed, i think i got 3 to 0 copycat items before getting succesful forges, im not sure how much higher their rate is than precursors, which would mean they might be a bit more pricey than you imagine should your idea go into place.

Overall id say most of these solutions are too item centric.

part 3 is a bit flawed, i think i got 3 to 0 copycat items before getting succesful forges, im not sure how much higher their rate is than precursors, which would mean they might be a bit more pricey than you imagine should your idea go into place.

Well, I’ve gotten at least a few of them in the past, and zero Pres, so the rate is likely at least slightly higher. But as I said, this is more a thematic element, and they may have to increase the drop rate or allow you to craft them directly. For example, Khrysaor could be a level 500 Weaponsmith item, one Ori GS Hilt, one Ori GS blade, one Rabid Orichalcum Imbued Inscription, one Superior Sigil of Air.

It is “item centric,” but it covers a lot of different gameplay. Let’s say you can craft a Khyrsaor, what would making the pre entail? You would need a little luck or money to craft part 1 (but not that much). You would need to run a few dungeons to get part 2 (running around 24 total paths), you would need to either spend a bit more money or get a craft up to 500 for part 3. Part 4 would require you to complete the Personal Story. This is a decent spread of gameplay elements.

For me it’s not a matter of gold. I have the gold. It’s a matter of keeping promises.

When I need to get something done at work, my boss will have a deadline. If I don’t make my deadline, I need to update my manager why I didn’t make the deadline but, more importantly, I need to give a new deadline. And stick to it.

When you tell your customer product X will be ready by Y date, you need to keep to that date or provide a new deadline. And stick to it, while keeping your customer in the loop of progress made.

It’s fundamental to consumer trust to stick to your promises. If that promise includes a deadline, you better make it happen.

Nearly one year ago we were told, after already having waited 9 months following the scavenger hunt promise, that precursor crafting would be implemented by the end of 2013 at the latest. This wasn’t any dev stating this, it came from the director himself.

So I want a new deadline, and I want to know where we stand. At this point I don’t care anymore whether the economy implodes when precursor crafting is implemented. This needs to happen. Not soon, not “we’re aware of the issue” or “this is one of our priorities but we need to get it right”, no. That’s not good enough anymore.

I would let Evon use a pseudo-cryptocurrency to pay players to work on “Glory of Tyria” projects that are connected to LW. The reward marketplace would include a type 2 precursor and LW plot devices. Even though I am compelled to get my hands in complex systems I have participated in too many critiques of other peoples art to not feel awkward when offering large changes to artistic systems. I am still looking for economic noise issues with my plan.

Making it so that crafting precursors is locked behind time gates or that it becomes easier to get one does not solve the problem. It will likely make things worse. A couple suggestions posted essentially put a price ceiling on precursors.

Buttercup.5871:

For me it’s not a matter of gold. I have the gold. It’s a matter of keeping promises.

When I need to get something done at work, my boss will have a deadline. If I don’t make my deadline, I need to update my manager why I didn’t make the deadline but, more importantly, I need to give a new deadline. And stick to it.

When you tell your customer product X will be ready by Y date, you need to keep to that date or provide a new deadline. And stick to it, while keeping your customer in the loop of progress made.

It’s a fundamental to consumer trust to stick to your promises. If that promise includes a deadline, you better make it happen.

Nearly one year ago we were told, after already having waited 9 months following the scavenger hunt promise, that precursor crafting would be implemented by the end of 2013 at the latest. This wasn’t any dev stating this, it came from the director himself.

So I want a new deadline, and I want to know where we stand. At this point I don’t care anymore whether the economy implodes when precursor crafting is implemented. This needs to happen. Not soon, not “we’re aware of the issue” or “this is one of our priorities but we need to get it right”, no. That’s not good enough anymore.

We will never get a new deadline until that deadline is also the release date. We will never get a release date until the need for a new precursor discovery method outweighs the risk of introducing a new discovery method. That risk assessment includes being sure the economy doesn’t implode.

I am dissatisfied with the current discovery method as well. Imo, the Tyrian rational economic focal point of precursors is too close to the Arenanet et al rational economic focal point. In other words, Legendary weapons in general make me feel like a mercenary and not a hero.

Buttercup.5871:

When you tell your customer product X will be ready by Y date, you need to keep to that date or provide a new deadline. And stick to it, while keeping your customer in the loop of progress made.

There have been a number of announcements made about precursors, the latest happening before the April patch. You have as much information as the devs are permitted to give you.

The decision to hold back discussions of long-term plans came from above the devs, and happened largely due to just this kind of reaction from players. Anet has many dedicated professionals and I’m sure they would love to talk about their work and are just as disappointed (or more so) as players when something they’ve worked on for months gets cancelled or taken back to step one.

But that is how this kind of business works, they are not developing entirely new, stand-alone products, every piece of the game has to work with every other piece and sometimes that’s just not possible. The devs are well aware of players’ dissatisfaction with these policies, and the progress or lack thereof made in various areas. Continuing to complain when you know that they are not allowed to talk about these things just contributes to the “noise” of the forums and makes it less likely that other matters will receive the attention they deserve.

Psientist.6437:

Sauzo,

Point of clarification; the stats for Legendary weapons were raised to match Ascended gear. Your final point is inaccurate to the point of irrelevant.

I can not speak for others but I like to discuss new precursor discovery methods for several reasons. In general, I am compelled to get my hands into complex systems and a new precursor discovery method is a complex system. As well, when the workload of crafting ascended gear runs dry or for reasons not connected to workload, we will likely see an expansion of Legendary weapons and/or armor. When that happens, we will indeed see a new discovery method for precursors.

If Arenanet et al were not interested in a new discovery method for precursors, they are being irresponsible when they say it is still on their radar. A recent post from Colin mentions precursor crafting as well, albeit as a general description of the speed of developing new content.

My last point is relevant though. My point was that perhaps ascended and legendary weapons having the same stats and weapon dmg was Anets way of dealing with precursors. That way people whining about precursors couldn’t use the argument that legendaries were “better” and that people without legendaries weren’t on level footing with people with legendaries. This way the only difference in a legendary is purely cosmetics, nothing to go with the characters actual “contribution” dmgwise since it is much cheaper and easier to make ascended weapons than legendaries.

Problem with precursor crafting is that they would need to be comparable to the other Gifts as the precursor is 1/4 the materials needed. So you look at Gift of Fortune is about 1000g to craft, Gift of (the legendary) is around 500-1000 depending on the legendary, and Gift of Mastery is a huge time sink with the 500k karma and 200 skill points needed. So a way to make a precursor is NOT gonna be something cheap like 20g or only take a week to make. My guess like I’ve said before would be something a long the lines of 500g and/or2 months or so to make. That would put it more in line with the other components.

Of course my stand on the whole issue is just leave precursors the way they are. No I’m not selling any atm and I have never even seen one drop in 2 years of playing and about 6000 hours. I say leave them cause anyone can make them if they set their mind to it and focus. Hell I made 6 in the amount of time I played and it really wasn’t that hard.

Sauzo.6821:

My last point is relevant though. My point was that perhaps ascended and legendary weapons having the same stats and weapon dmg was Anets way of dealing with precursors. That way people whining about precursors couldn’t use the argument that legendaries were “better” and that people without legendaries weren’t on level footing with people with legendaries. This way the only difference in a legendary is purely cosmetics, nothing to go with the characters actual “contribution” dmgwise since it is much cheaper and easier to make ascended weapons than legendaries.

From the launch of the game, Legendaries were designed to have the stats of the highest tier of weapons in the game. At launch the highest stat tier was exotic, so they had exotic stats. When ascended weapons were introduced, their stats became equal to ascended weapons. Legendary weapons are their own “tier” however, and are not themselves counted as exotic or ascended. If Anet should ever introduce a higher tier of weapons, Legendaries will automatically become equal to that tier.

tolunart.2095:

Buttercup.5871:

When you tell your customer product X will be ready by Y date, you need to keep to that date or provide a new deadline. And stick to it, while keeping your customer in the loop of progress made.

There have been a number of announcements made about precursors, the latest happening before the April patch. You have as much information as the devs are permitted to give you.

The decision to hold back discussions of long-term plans came from above the devs, and happened largely due to just this kind of reaction from players. Anet has many dedicated professionals and I’m sure they would love to talk about their work and are just as disappointed (or more so) as players when something they’ve worked on for months gets cancelled or taken back to step one.

But that is how this kind of business works, they are not developing entirely new, stand-alone products, every piece of the game has to work with every other piece and sometimes that’s just not possible. The devs are well aware of players’ dissatisfaction with these policies, and the progress or lack thereof made in various areas. Continuing to complain when you know that they are not allowed to talk about these things just contributes to the “noise” of the forums and makes it less likely that other matters will receive the attention they deserve.

I know Tolunart but there comes a point where that’s not good enough anymore. I’d say we are well beyond that point after waiting more than 1,5 years and still knowing absolutely nothing on where matters stand now.

Anet is not your parents. Throwing a tantrum until they give in just to shut you up is not going to work.

You know where the matter stands – they are still working on it. It will be ready when it’s ready, not when you want it to be ready.

Sauzo.6821:

Psientist.6437:

Sauzo,

Point of clarification; the stats for Legendary weapons were raised to match Ascended gear. Your final point is inaccurate to the point of irrelevant.

I can not speak for others but I like to discuss new precursor discovery methods for several reasons. In general, I am compelled to get my hands into complex systems and a new precursor discovery method is a complex system. As well, when the workload of crafting ascended gear runs dry or for reasons not connected to workload, we will likely see an expansion of Legendary weapons and/or armor. When that happens, we will indeed see a new discovery method for precursors.

If Arenanet et al were not interested in a new discovery method for precursors, they are being irresponsible when they say it is still on their radar. A recent post from Colin mentions precursor crafting as well, albeit as a general description of the speed of developing new content.

My last point is relevant though. My point was that perhaps ascended and legendary weapons having the same stats and weapon dmg was Anets way of dealing with precursors. That way people whining about precursors couldn’t use the argument that legendaries were “better” and that people without legendaries weren’t on level footing with people with legendaries. This way the only difference in a legendary is purely cosmetics, nothing to go with the characters actual “contribution” dmgwise since it is much cheaper and easier to make ascended weapons than legendaries.

Before the introduction of ascended rarity, did Legendary weapons offer a statistical advantage over exotic rarity? Legendary rarity has always been cosmetic only. The stats of Legendary weapons were increased to match ascended stats. Your argument is circular.

Sauzo.6821:

So a way to make a precursor is NOT gonna be something cheap like 20g or only take a week to make. My guess like I’ve said before would be something a long the lines of 500g and/or2 months or so to make. That would put it more in line with the other components.

I’m okay with that. Reading all of the stories of players throwing millions of gold into the forge and never getting a precursor have driven me away from ever using the forge.

tolunart.2095:

Anet is not your parents. Throwing a tantrum until they give in just to shut you up is not going to work.

You know where the matter stands – they are still working on it. It will be ready when it’s ready, not when you want it to be ready.

I don’t like these semantics. Customers are right in saying “promise = promise, so what’s going on?” That is nowhere near throwing a tantrum. Nine months have passed since the original “worst case scenario” deadline elapsed. And everyone is still kept in the dark.

Either give a deadline and keep people informed, or give nothing at all. But not both; you can’t start with one and end with the other. People “work” on a legendary for months, they want to know what’s going on.

Buttercup.5871:

I know Tolunart but there comes a point where that’s not good enough anymore. I’d say we are well beyond that point after waiting more than 1,5 years and still knowing absolutely nothing on where matters stand now.

More like 5 months.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/gw2-precursor-recipe-scavanger-hunt-news/3780700

Buttercup.5871:

tolunart.2095:

Anet is not your parents. Throwing a tantrum until they give in just to shut you up is not going to work.

You know where the matter stands – they are still working on it. It will be ready when it’s ready, not when you want it to be ready.

I don’t like these semantics. Customers are right in saying “promise = promise, so what’s going on?” That is nowhere near throwing a tantrum. Nine months have passed since the original “worst case scenario” deadline elapsed. And everyone is still kept in the dark.

Either give a deadline and keep people informed, or give nothing at all. But not both; you can’t start with one and end with the other. People “work” on a legendary for months, they want to know what’s going on.

If keeping the doors open at Arenanet et al can be considered a poker game, then “precursor crafting” can be considered a very large bet (close to all in). They can not sacrifice this kitten, they must bet wisely.

Precursors and legendaries are the backbone of the player economy. All the other stuff is a sideshow. They simply will not mess with precursor crafting until they are certain it will hold the economy up as well as the current system does.