Guild Wars 2

Have there been any posts stating why this was removed? Can we get this back and working properly by deducting the listing and sale fee? I don’t mind doing math….but it would speed up the sale process when it comes to selling more than 20 items of varying prices.

for one, it meant almost nothing. it wasn’t even the actual ‘projected profit’. a better name for what it showed would be ‘projected returned’.
it was the amount of gold you would expect to get delivered to you once the item sold. It was the total amount – TP final sale fee. it did not include the listing fee.
personally, I’d rather know the actual ‘projected profit’, like you said, meaning the total amount – TP final sale fee – TP listing fee.

There are a half dozen number that should be included on the TP and ANet is still trying to figure out the best way to convey them so that they help people rather than confuse.

1. Unit price
2. Number of units
3. Total value of all items
4. Listing fee, 5%, non-refundable, collected upon listing
5. Sales tax, 10%, collected upon sale
6. Gross profit, 90%, the amount you will collect in your inbox, equal to Total Value less Sales Tax.
7. Net profit, 85%, the net gain, assuming you list only once and everything sells, equal to Gross Profit less Listing Fee and equal to Total Value less Sales tax less Listing Fee.

Most human beings start to lose focus after seeing more than 3 numbers on a screen. 7 numbers tends to wig some folks out, so ANet has to be careful about how to present this. This ends up being one of those situations that only appears simple until you get into implementation — if it was easy, they would have gotten it right ages ago.

Personally, I prefer that they include all the numbers and then tweak the presentation, rather than trying to decide which ones we ought to see.

I can’t understand why players are complaining because it’s totally useless IMO. Unless you are picking your price based on “the profit”. See I pick my price based on how “quickly” I think it’ll sell relative to the current trading range, favoring the high end of the range.

If you are flipping then you are going to break out the calculator and divide by 0.85 to define your lower limit.

You don’t need to worry about getting less than the vendor amount any longer.

And give me an example, other than being … retentive, that you want an exact amount back as “profit” and set your unit price from there? What kind of OCD trader cares that it’s a specific amount? The market is dynamic, everything is always in a state of flux with the exception of vendor merch.

Please someone explain WHY this is so important.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

There are a half dozen number that should be included on the TP and ANet is still trying to figure out the best way to convey them so that they help people rather than confuse.

1. Unit price
2. Number of units
3. Total value of all items
4. Listing fee, 5%, non-refundable, collected upon listing
5. Sales tax, 10%, collected upon sale
6. Gross profit, 90%, the amount you will collect in your inbox, equal to Total Value less Sales Tax.
7. Net profit, 85%, the net gain, assuming you list only once and everything sells, equal to Gross Profit less Listing Fee and equal to Total Value less Sales tax less Listing Fee.

Most human beings start to lose focus after seeing more than 3 numbers on a screen. 7 numbers tends to wig some folks out, so ANet has to be careful about how to present this. This ends up being one of those situations that only appears simple until you get into implementation — if it was easy, they would have gotten it right ages ago.

Personally, I prefer that they include all the numbers and then tweak the presentation, rather than trying to decide which ones we ought to see.

you stated this very well.
mouseovers are good for things like this
maybe you could enter the quantity, individual price, then they display the total price, and you could mouse over the total price and it would break it down into listing fee, final sale tax, projected return, etc.

I think it would be nice to know without having to pull out the calculator. They are making all these changes to the game to make it simpler. easier to use, and less confusing for new players. Why couldn’t they have added the net return? They already show us the gross value, the listing fee, and the tax.

Does it really matter? Don’t you trust the calculations the TP makes? I sell something for 4g21s. I know I’ll get less than that at pickup and already forked up the money to list it. Unless I’m doing a %profit analysis based on my cost of raw mats, which the TP doesn’t know, I don’t really care if it cost me 21s5c to post or that I’ll get 3g78s90c at pickup.

The key for me is the item(s) sold and the money is flowing in.

Behellagh.1468:

I can’t understand why players are complaining because it’s totally useless IMO. Unless you are picking your price based on “the profit”.
Please someone explain WHY this is so important.

You just answered your own question.

Yifang.8260:

Behellagh.1468:

I can’t understand why players are complaining because it’s totally useless IMO. Unless you are picking your price based on “the profit”.
Please someone explain WHY this is so important.

You just answered your own question.

But who in their right mind does that? It’s like picking items at a store so when it’s rung up at the register, including tax, it comes out an even number of dollars. Nobody shops that way.

Some people do. (Not me, but I know some people who probably would do that!)

I wouldn’t mind seeing Projected Profit come back. It doesn’t matter that much to me, but it’s kind of nice knowing that I’ll get back “8 gold” or “6 silver” as my final profit.

I’m not too fussy myself, just want to get more than the npc offer, in a way the new tp is good as it won’t let you sell below anymore as you said, even so it does save time to have the profit displayed when adjusting prices, why show the costs at all then if that’s useless info? Though messing around with the slider and arrows will work out the price for you to make some profit above the npc price anyway after costs are deducted, I rather type the number in though as that’s slightly faster.

Actually I can think of people who do that in real life, people who don’t want loose change.

I just want to know how much money I’ll get back upon selling the item. Currently, I know how much it’ll sell for, listing tax, and selling tax, but then have to do the math myself to figure out how much I’ll actually bring back.

It has been mentioned, asked for and basically (as far as I know), ignored by Devs.

I suspect there is something going on with hardcore traders (who HAVE mentioned they don’t need it) and I can only think it has to do with hoping more casual traders make a mistake in the math and they can profit from said mistakes.

If that’s true, I have no idea why the Devs would support making it easier for casual traders to screw up and increase other players profits as a result.

No common sense at all, when you get an invoice they don’t just show the prices of items, tax, service charge without a grand total. If they really can’t show 3 different values then they can do away with the listing fee and the tax as all we want to know is the profit.

Brother Grimm.5176:

It has been mentioned, asked for and basically (as far as I know), ignored by Devs.

I suspect there is something going on with hardcore traders (who HAVE mentioned they don’t need it) and I can only think it has to do with hoping more casual traders make a mistake in the math and they can profit from said mistakes.

If that’s true, I have no idea why the Devs would support making it easier for casual traders to screw up and increase other players profits as a result.

How can a casual trader screw up? Using a calculator is a sign of not being casual?

Like I’ve been asking, why does it matter? You know you will be getting less than what you set the price for and it’s the same percentage loss every … single … time.

Your choice is simple. Not sell an item and get 0g. Sell it to a vendor, assuming they take it, for a pittance. Or sell it on the TP where now you can’t price it so it would have been better to sell it to a vendor. And the sell screen now shows the “top” 20 buy now/sell now prices to help you set the price. You should be setting your price to sell the item because a price too high is worse than not selling it at all due to the bid fee.

It’s all about turnover. By all means don’t go for the cheap buck and sell to the high bidder but don’t tie up those lovely stand-ins for coin by setting the price too high simply because you want the “profit” to be some amount.

tpcalc.com

Use it.

Well I think better not let people sell it at the price that equals the npc value after tax, pretty pointless selling it that price, there’s npcs everywhere to sell to. No still you fail to see the point, people that sell stuff tend to want to know what selling gets them, in real terms, I really hope if you sell a high value item in real life you don’t have this attitude of I know I’m profiting, doesn’t matter how much…

Otokomae.9356:

tpcalc.com

Use it.

You can’t be serious, just as when we didn’t have a proper LFG in game what the hell, people had to use a browser for something that should be in game?! Manually calculating is faster than using some webpage outside of the game.

Otokomae.9356:

tpcalc.com

Use it.

Thanks for this. I’ll use that until they fix it internally.

Behellagh.1468:

I can’t understand why players are complaining because it’s totally useless IMO. Unless you are picking your price based on “the profit”. See I pick my price based on how “quickly” I think it’ll sell relative to the current trading range, favoring the high end of the range.

If you are flipping then you are going to break out the calculator and divide by 0.85 to define your lower limit.

You don’t need to worry about getting less than the vendor amount any longer.

And give me an example, other than being … retentive, that you want an exact amount back as “profit” and set your unit price from there? What kind of OCD trader cares that it’s a specific amount? The market is dynamic, everything is always in a state of flux with the exception of vendor merch.

Please someone explain WHY this is so important.

Because having the number right there means I don’t have to go pull out a calculator, or do quick head-math with the numbers they do give. And I’m someone who is pretty decent at head-math – some people are plain bad at it.

So yeah, the reason is the same reason you put a Shortcut on your Desktop, instead of going and finding your programs in the Program Files folder every time you want to open them. It’s convenience.

Bottom line, I like to know what coin I’m going to be getting back from a sale. Some sales I don’t care and some I do. I mean, I’m pretty aware of the numbers on the side that say what the taxes will take, but if you’re not familiar with what that stuff means, the sale price can be downright deceptive (in UI terms, it’s much more eye-grabbing than the smaller numbers on the side).

The old projected profit was even worse in terms of being deceptive, but now that we have all the information there, this is a good time to finish the job and be clear to players about what they’re actually going to end up with from a sale. What we have currently is a step in the right direction, but it’s also just an information dump. Knowing what the tax numbers are allows me to do head-math and that’s about it; I’m still just going to punch in .85 on a calculator when the numbers matter.

Arzo.8671:

Otokomae.9356:

tpcalc.com

Use it.

Thanks for this. I’ll use that until they fix it internally.

It’s obvious to me that since no Dev has bothered to comment on this in at least a dozen threads since the change that they have NO intention of “fixing” it.

Again, I’d just like to know why it wasn’t included in the UI to begin with…..and why that answer seems to be some verboten subject…..

Brother Grimm.5176:

Arzo.8671:

Otokomae.9356:

tpcalc.com

Use it.

Thanks for this. I’ll use that until they fix it internally.

It’s obvious to me that since no Dev has bothered to comment on this in at least a dozen threads since the change that they have NO intention of “fixing” it.

Again, I’d just like to know why it wasn’t included in the UI to begin with…..and why that answer seems to be some verboten subject…..

They did comment on it somewhere, but I don’t remember when or where. I also don’t think they said anything that indicated it was a priority at all. That may have changed though.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Arzo.8671:

Otokomae.9356:

tpcalc.com

Use it.

Thanks for this. I’ll use that until they fix it internally.

It’s obvious to me that since no Dev has bothered to comment on this in at least a dozen threads since the change that they have NO intention of “fixing” it.

Again, I’d just like to know why it wasn’t included in the UI to begin with…..and why that answer seems to be some verboten subject…..

Here is what they had to say about why they chose this setup.

Curtis Johnson: Source
“We felt it was important when selling something to know exactly what price your buyer was going to see. The change also is the least cluttered way to address feedback we received previously about profit including / not including fees and wanting to be as clear as possible on the order of operations.
We’re balancing a lot of UX design against desire for more information with the new UI.. We’ll be watching to see what sort of confusion comes out of this and may or may not re-introduce a net profit display later”

Astral Projections.7320:

Brother Grimm.5176:

Arzo.8671:

Otokomae.9356:

tpcalc.com

Use it.

Thanks for this. I’ll use that until they fix it internally.

It’s obvious to me that since no Dev has bothered to comment on this in at least a dozen threads since the change that they have NO intention of “fixing” it.

Again, I’d just like to know why it wasn’t included in the UI to begin with…..and why that answer seems to be some verboten subject…..

Here is what they had to say about why they chose this setup.

Curtis Johnson: Source
“We felt it was important when selling something to know exactly what price your buyer was going to see. The change also is the least cluttered way to address feedback we received previously about profit including / not including fees and wanting to be as clear as possible on the order of operations.
We’re balancing a lot of UX design against desire for more information with the new UI.. We’ll be watching to see what sort of confusion comes out of this and may or may not re-introduce a net profit display later”

lol….has anyone every worried about what price the buyer sees? Also, there is plenty of room in the UI to show us net profit using a smaller font without making everything look cluttered.

I stand corrected as they obviously DID comment on this. The comment (posted above…thanks!) seems to be a lot of double talk without any commitment one way or another, but it IS a comment.

I think they are really worried that if it looks to much like a spreadsheet, people will get too scared to us it lol. Thing is the people who don’t care about it will always just dump stuff onto the highest buyer and move on. I mean they would be happy with an instant sell drop down on the item itself. The rest of us though.

Just list all the info. Everyone’s seen receipts, it’s not that scary.

At the very least, show the vendor price.