Guild Wars 2

I’m going to have to assume the market in this game is big enough that one or two people can’t control the entire market.

I think many believe this is not the case. It doesn’t seem to be in ArenaNet’s best interest to allow monopolies though. What good reason would they have to allow it? They could adjust some behind the scenes numbers and break a monopoly easy if someone manged to actually attain a monopoly.
I’m not sure I understand those that seem to think the market is controlled by just a few people. I’m sure there are a few people that are extremely wealthy but I don’t believe they could control entire markets.

You’re not forced to even interact too much with the market. I made it to level 80 before I really even understood the BLTC.

Seems most who really don’t like the markets are those that want to buy a precursor. You don’t have to buy one off the TP. I wonder how many people are actually stuck crafting their legendary because they can’t acquire a precursor?
There are different ways to get one. I remember long ago a post where people were throwing hundreds of rares in the Mystic Forge and keeping track how many it took. Bottom line – they finally got them.

As in real life:
There are people who work hard and make enough to cover most of what they want. The harder they work the more they tend to make.

There are people who speculate and invest. People that are good at it make more than even the hard working people.

There are people who cry. The sometimes work but not very hard. The don’t like the fact the other types of people have a lot more than they do.

We all have a choice on which to be like. I am in the first group. I like the second group best but usually don’t have the patience to hold on to great sums of money and invest it. Like many people, I like to spend money. When I really, really, really (or at least think I do) want something – I buy it. But I don’t begrudge the second group because their actions effect prices on stuff I need or they have more money than I do. I will just continue to work hard to get what I want.
I can’t seem to break 100 gold personally, so I don’t figure I’ll ever be able to afford a precursor. So that means I’ll have to get it a different way. I can make rares and acquire some in my travels, so mystic forge it is (eventually).
There are different paths to get the precursors. Grind gold / make yellows and throw them in the mystic toilet, get lucky opening a chest. They even hinted there will be some kind of scavenger hunt in the future. You want one – then get one.

TL;DR
Funny how the game mimics real life sometimes.
You want something? – Then go get it.

My rationale is this.

If someone wants to buy my precursor for 600g, then the price should be at least 600g.

If someone else wants to buy it for only 20g, but the highest offer is 600g, then why in the world should I sell it for only 20g?

Buyers and sellers set the price. Precursor prices are fine.

Yeah, a few days ago I tossed 100g worth of lv 80 exotic staves into the forge. Three times I got the exact same staff back. I got no named exotics. Just the generic craftable ones. Meanwhile some guy tosses one set of rares and gets lucky.

It completely disregards work investment. How is this good game design? Answer – It’s not. It’s just a sink on exotics/rares disguised as a legendary quest.

You don’t like it, don’t gamble. It’s called gambling for a reason.

At least be happy that you have the other option of saving up and buying it.

How about they give us a real means to obtain one? The whole process is a legendary gamble. Lmao, how epic.

SteepledHat.1345:

How about they give us a real means to obtain one? The whole process is a legendary gamble. Lmao, how epic.

Why not just give everything to you for free?

Download the game – > Win the game

Asking for a way to work for something is kind of the opposite of asking for it to be given. L2ReadDictionary Pls.

Precursors and legendaries should take a lot of work. Right now they take a lot of luck. Work <> Luck.

Just make the clover rate = 100%. The rest is just fine.

As if it isn’t already a major pain in the kitten

People also need T6 mats for legendaries, and the clover recipe is a decent way to get those. Plus, 33% chance is fine.

The main way to make content difficult in this game is to either make it a long/expensive grind or to inflate the number of mobs and their health/damage. I suppose a third way would be to make something like the clock tower jumping puzzle.

The problem with those methods is that once people see what it involves, they create a build that allows almost anyone to do it.

I think that if they truly made a quest “hard”, most people would hate it.

You would need to have an element of uncertainty – a few rosters of different mobs that could appear at each point that are designed to offer a diverse enough challenge that no single build will overcome it and failing certain objectives ejects you from the dungeon/mission.

If you’ve ever done an Underworld clear in GW1, then you have a sense of what I mean – although there was not much randomness, if you let a key NPC die, everyone was kicked. Also, it cost gold to enter and most groups used expensive consumables.

I’d like to see something more like that – something where there is a cost to enter and an actual failure condition.

Can you imagine the ocean of tears?

I would love a skill-based challenge to get legendaries, but sadly I don’t think GW2 has the balls to do that with its player base. There would be enough crying to drown LA a second time.

Check the number of precursors on the TP at any one time.

It’s in double-digits at most, generally low double-digits.

Power-traders have demonstrated capacity to craft and sell legendaries, easily eating the listing fees for 9k sell prices.

At an average price of 400 and a number listed of 10, this means the price of controlling the entire market is 4000. The idea people are not controlling it is ludicrous.

The market in this game is large enough that any one person cannot control it; I count roughly 8 Dusks selling in the past 24 hours, roughly 5-6 Dawns; it goes on and on. It’s not a stagnant market being choked off, it’s pretty active.

For the sake of argument assume those numbers are typical; that the market is putting out roughly a dozen greatsword precursors per day (conservatively). The cost of controlling that market, then, is upwards of 5000 gold per day.

Even if you could buy up all of a particular precursor, you’re not going to make any money unless the fundamentals really are off and the demand will support a higher price point; you will get undercut buying up a half dozen precursors and re-listing them, and quickly.

Ensign.2189:

The market in this game is large enough that any one person cannot control it; I count roughly 8 Dusks selling in the past 24 hours, roughly 5-6 Dawns; it goes on and on. It’s not a stagnant market being choked off, it’s pretty active.

For the sake of argument assume those numbers are typical; that the market is putting out roughly a dozen greatsword precursors per day (conservatively). The cost of controlling that market, then, is upwards of 5000 gold per day.

Even if you could buy up all of a particular precursor, you’re not going to make any money unless the fundamentals really are off and the demand will support a higher price point; you will get undercut buying up a half dozen precursors and re-listing them, and quickly.

Most people who go to sell them won’t undercut by a ridiculous level.

This means that if there are 10 on at any one time, someone can buy them all up with 5k, immediately relist one for 30% more, then reap the higher buy orders for a massive profit. There are posts from people who do this on this forum.

The result is skyrocketing price as different employ this tactic again and again.

If it’s such an issue for you make your own precursor or farm for it, they are coming from somewhere you don’t have to use the trading post…

plasmacutter.2709:

This means that if there are 10 on at any one time, someone can buy them all up with 5k, immediately relist one for 30% more, then reap the higher buy orders for a massive profit. There are posts from people who do this on this forum.

The result is skyrocketing price as different employ this tactic again and again.

Spidy shows that even as prices go up, the spread has stayed about the same at ~100g. According to your theory, the manipulator buys stock at 500g and then marks it up 30% to 650g. Following that, Spidy predicts that bids increase to 550g, and he now fills those orders.

550g – TP tax = 467.5g

Times the 10 precursors, your “manipulator” just lost 325g for his trouble.

plasmacutter.2709:

This means that if there are 10 on at any one time, someone can buy them all up with 5k, immediately relist one for 30% more, then reap the higher buy orders for a massive profit.

At the moment the market seems pretty happy to move ~8 Dusks per day in the 600-640 gold range. It has been creeping up, but so has the cost of materials, so you would expect it to. At the same time, there have only been 2-3 Dusks listed on the trading post for several days now.

Your argument, if I’m reading it right, is that you could buy up those 2-3 Dusks at 650 gold, relist them at, oh, 850 gold – that you would have no problem moving them at that price and would make a handsome profit in the process.

If so, your argument is that both the supply and demand for precursors is wholly inelastic. People are only willing and able to sell ~8 Dusks per day at their current price point, and adding 30% to that price will not convince people to spend more time and money throwing Krait Slayers into the forge to generate Dusks. Similarly, people are willing to buy ~8 Dusks per day at 600-650 gold, and they would be just as willing to buy those Dusks at 850 gold as well. Precursor buyers are not sensitive to the price at all.

I do not believe that for an instant.

There is money to be made from buying out precursors and re-listing them at a higher price when there has been a shock to the fundamental price that the current listings do not reflect – for example, many precursor prices do not yet reflect the increased cost of materials following the bot ban, so there may be an arbitrage opportunity in driving those markets to their new equilibrium. Absent a shock, however, there’s no money to be made from buying out a precursor, or any other item, and re-listing it at a substantially higher price – demand will drop, supply will increase, and the price will snap back towards its fundamental value while you’re stuck holding the bag.

There is no reason to believe it works any differently in GW2 than it does in any other market.

People seem to forget that manipulating precursors is like manipulating any other item. If you put a buy wall up, it forces others to buy at your newly listed price – or not buy at all.

In each raise of Dusk, this has been the case. And for such a rare item, a manipulator doesn’t have much to worry about if someone else comes into the market and fills one of his/her fake buy orders.

My in-game wealth wouldn’t be high (and I’m a small fry) if his weren’t true. The items I play with are far less rare than any of the controlled precursors and that means the formula would be less apt to work in the first place. Yet it does.