Guild Wars 2

Those people who laments about market prices are really off-target. Market is supply/demand. BUT prices have to meet, and will meet when the demand adjusts to the supply.

Right away we have a shortage of supply. Sellers feel justified to raise their stakes, because supply is lower. Buyers frown from buying, making choices on WHAT they buy.

When the sellers won’t sell anymore, they will lower prices again to meed the demand. That’s economy 101. Much more easier in a virtual world, where money is guaranteed with work, so there is a steady supply of money that goes in the market.

Bu then, it is suddenly better to farm for our materials than buy them from TP after selling all items we loot. If you need Powerful Blood, it is much better try and farm it. Find places where it is easier to farm them (trolls at frostgorge are not the only place) and make a guess if it is better to sell them now (and buy them when they will lower again) or put them in the bank.

This is infinitely better than the no-brainer statement “just sell them on TP, they’re not worth anything with all the bot around”. This will bring crafters on the market again, because suddenly the value of the crafted goods will raise, and there will be a substantial margin to craft things, better if you farm the materials, but even with bought materials.

Sure, some goods won’t be touched by this, but market will balance them anyway. If a seller would sell a Charged Lodestone for 3g and nobody buys them because money is scarce, there will be someone that will undercut him, or he will have to cancel and relist.

TLDR; You have to trust the market.

What they should do is institute a flat recipe of a precursor using primarily icy runestones. That way, the prices of other materials aren’t affected and at least you know how much more your precursor will cost.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Vilkata.4725:

The way I see it, if the bots were skewing the market that much it probably meant the devs couldn’t get reliable data. Without reliable data they were probably hesitant to adjust the drop rates in any big ways. I’m hopeful that if the bots can be reduced to the point where they’re not a significant factor, and kept that way, we’ll see some targeted adjustments to some of the drop rates.

Unfortunately that will take some time.

Didn’t they already change the loot table based on the market? (I remember something with butter…)

True, that’s why I said big adjustments. In the grand scheme of things butter, chocolate, walnuts, and cinnamon are going to have a limited impact so it’s probably not as dangerous to tweak those drop rates.

Bubbles.2507:

What they should do is institute a flat recipe of a precursor using primarily icy runestones. That way, the prices of other materials aren’t affected and at least you know how much more your precursor will cost.

That will only address 3 or 4 precursors while raising the price of the cheaper ones. Everyone only focuses on about 3 precursors. So while your suggestion would effect the top 3 most popular precursors. What about the guy who wants to craft the Minstrel that is his legendary as he may not like the top 3. The Focus precursor goes for 24g atm on the TP.

You now raised artificially raised the price of the bard just because of the price of Dusk, The legend, and Dawn. That wouldn’t really be fair imo and would open a totally different door of threads.

John Smith.4610:

The price spike doesn’t represent a shortage, it represents prices returning to where they should be without bots. This change creates more opportunity for players playing the game to earn money. The oversupply the bots created hurt the legitimate producers of items. As the prices go up, more real players will enter the market.

Before these players (that are all trying to craft a legendary BTW) ever enter the market, they will ragequit the game’s ridiculous grind requirement for an aesthetic skin.

You’re not understanding just how ridiculously unskilled and time consuming the legendary crafting process is.

I thank you for banning bots, but please make t6 mats and ectos drop more frequently from level80+ mob. Otherwise, there will be nobody left to pay for your game.

Ping.5739:

@Nimraphel.7819

Your point completely base on “every one should be able to get a legendary relatively easily”, which, in fact, is not a reasonable opinion.

That is an outright lie. I have never ever written this anywhere nor even given even the slightest indication that this was my stance. This is either your pathetic attempt at slander or your inability to properly read. Either way, I challenge you to find a quote by me in which I say that ‘everyone should be able to get a legendary relatively easy’. Oh you can’t? Thank you. Let this kittendation stop.

I said that having a carrot dangling in front of players for 1+ year (and no, people, 3 hours a day every single day is not casual. 15+ hours a day are anomalies) is simply not sustainable. It is medieval.

Zaxares.5419:

I actually see things differently. I expect that ANet intended Legendaries to be items that players could obtain over the course of SEVERAL years. Guild Wars 1 had a lifetime for over 7 years; I fully expect GW2 to last for the same amount of time, if not more. In that timeline, Legendaries are probably items that your average player, playing 1 – 2 hours a day for 3 – 4 years, could definitely afford if they saved up with a mind to working towards a specific Legendary. ANet probably didn’t expect people to have Legendaries within 2 months of the game’s release. (Perhaps it was poor design, perhaps it was people exploiting the market, or perhaps it was people buying gold from gold sellers, but I’ll refrain from going too much into it since that’s not really what this thread is about.)

Let’s not compare GW1 and GW2 please; one was and is a niché mmo/CORPG, the other one is a triple A title with a persistent world and massive growth over its predecessor. Dangling carrots in front of a small, die-hard playerbase might have worked, but in a triple A title with massive populations it’s not a viable or sustainable strategy, unless they’re happy about the massive outrage legendaries are right now causing on the forums. I think it speaks volumes that pretty much every serious legendary guide comes with the caveat “don’t do this. Wait and see. It must get better.”.

Regarding people getting early legendaries, some exploited the initial precursor bug where level 65+ rares could yield precursors, making them a somewhat reliable source of massive income.

Anyway, do you honestly believe that ‘the average player’ will ‘put his mind to saving up for a legendary’ for 3-4 years? Of which the majority of the time will be spent repeating the same Cursed Shore events over and over and over? Instead of going to another games that, y’know, actually have a better measurement of effort/reward.

Did we just take a time machine back to EQ1?

Nimraphel.7819:

Zaxares.5419:

I actually see things differently. I expect that ANet intended Legendaries to be items that players could obtain over the course of SEVERAL years. Guild Wars 1 had a lifetime for over 7 years; I fully expect GW2 to last for the same amount of time, if not more. In that timeline, Legendaries are probably items that your average player, playing 1 – 2 hours a day for 3 – 4 years, could definitely afford if they saved up with a mind to working towards a specific Legendary. ANet probably didn’t expect people to have Legendaries within 2 months of the game’s release. (Perhaps it was poor design, perhaps it was people exploiting the market, or perhaps it was people buying gold from gold sellers, but I’ll refrain from going too much into it since that’s not really what this thread is about.)

Let’s not compare GW1 and GW2 please; one was and is a niché mmo/CORPG, the other one is a triple A title with a persistent world and massive growth over its predecessor. Dangling carrots in front of a small, die-hard playerbase might have worked, but in a triple A title with massive populations it’s not a viable or sustainable strategy, unless they’re happy about the massive outrage legendaries are right now causing on the forums. I think it speaks volumes that pretty much every serious legendary guide comes with the caveat “don’t do this. Wait and see. It must get better.”.

Regarding people getting early legendaries, some exploited the initial precursor bug where level 65+ rares could yield precursors, making them a somewhat reliable source of massive income.

Anyway, do you honestly believe that ‘the average player’ will ‘put his mind to saving up for a legendary’ for 3-4 years? Of which the majority of the time will be spent repeating the same Cursed Shore events over and over and over? Instead of going to another games that, y’know, actually have a better measurement of effort/reward.

Did we just take a time machine back to EQ1?

Yes, as sad as it is, anet seems to have taken the time machine back to EQ1. They don’t realize the average player will not stay and support their (currently draconic) business model.

I mean, I’m one of the few that can afford the time for a legendary, but seeing its requirements and lack of any other endgame confirms my fear that pretty soon I will not have many players to kill in PvP, or have a good/large community to do the occasional PvE with.

If at least they made legendaries easier to obtain overall, I’m sure players would stick around and wait even if there is a lack of other content. AS it is, there’s way too many disillusioned/untrusting/angry players thanks to the korean RNG fest that are the precursors and the ridiculous t6/ecto reqs for legendary gifts.

If the item is supposed to be “Legendary”, your first thought when you find out what’s involved in getting it should be “No way, that kittening impossible!”

Then you either move on and forget about it or you decide you’re going to go for it, no matter what it takes. If it takes less than insane commitment and/or heroic achievements, it’s not worthy of the label Legendary.

So if you go for it, stop complaining. The harder and more painful the journey, the more legendary your prize!

In “that other” MMO, 99.9% of the players would see the new legendaries in an expansion and know that they’d never hold them. If you weren’t (buddies with) a GM in a hardcore raiding guild or saved up a zillion dkp, the matter was settled. Before you’d get a chance at gathering the pieces, new content would kill interest in the old one and you’d be stuck unless you committed to organizing your own pug raids for a suddenly outdated “Legendary”. (organizing pug raids = insane commitment too).
Either way, people would be impressed when they saw you with one.

In contrast, I find the gambling process to get a Legendary in GW2 distinctly unheroic and the fact that exploits and speculating on the market put the first legendaries in people’s hands so quickly after a launch very unlegendary. Now that it becomes harder to just buy your way to a legendary, the rarity and status will at least increase a bit, but we’ll have to wait for new legendaries unaffected by early exploits to really see who’s legendary and who’s not.

Regardless, they’re not worth it if they’re the only reason you play and I don’t think it will affect whether people want to play. It never stopped the 99.9% from playing in that other mmo.

So we complain that bots are around Anet fixes that, now we complain we want them back? make up your minds.

-I personally am glad bots are gone, and prices should settle on what they should be, t6 mats should be a somewhat rarish drop, if you have the $ then yes u can buy yourself all the t6 mats u want for ur legendary, its a “legendary” meaning hard to obtain, i never got hard to obtain stuff… you know… by having bots do the work for me, i mean easy:>

this actually helps the market alot, people who need money can actually sell their used to be unvaluable t6 mats for a decent price, they can now buy consumables/armors/etc or things they needed, people with money will pay, and they will still make money thats why its the tp, 1 person sells other buys, you dont have to be that other, by you and i both know, its probably gonna be you thats gonna be that other.

Lastly, as i do agree with Anet that prices should you know go back to being balanced
due to bots not supplying t6 mats etc anymore, i also agree that prices will get really high! and gold farming just isnt… cutting it, Anet needs to provide a way for players to make some decent cash for the market to truly, balance out, without diminishing returns if some1 wants to work themselves to the bone to make alot of money let them? if some people need spare change or enough for cool items that cost 10g and they have 1g, why should they have to work for 2-3-4 days cuz of diminishin returns?

Now that the supply will be regular again, we also need a decent way to actually buy/sell things. 300g for a precursor, or 250g or 200g, how many days do u think itll take to get that much g? if people make like 8g a day, probably less… lets calculate based off a 5g per day
300/5=60 days, 2 whole months. for 1 part of a legendary, 10g per day 30 days? thats ridiculous, now lets calculate repairs, miscellaneous tp’s etc etc, its gonna take longer than a month, or 60 days, and prices continue to rise on these precursors.
250g/5=50 days 250g/10=25
200g(lowest precursor ive seen)/5=40 200g/10=20 straight DAYS of farming, uninterrupted farming

-Now Anet i know this is not the only way to get a precursor, but when you check out a 45 minute youtube video of some1 throwing in hundreds of rares into the mystic forge, to get 0 precursors, and wasting over 100-150g on it, its really the only way to go, cuz Gambling for something that should be gotten out of hard work is not an option.

-We need a way to earn gold, without playing for 30/60 days straight to get enough gold for 1 precursor. now calculate how much itll cost to get the rest of that legendary and how much time itll take then tell me we dont deserve a way to get the G without the DR

Im not saying legendaries should be easy, but should they be… impossible? prices rise but you cant keep up cuz farming gold doesnt yield more g/hour. not too much so that you can buy everything you wanted in a month, but not so low either, legendaries hey if u gotta take a couple months makin em fine, but you cant prices keep rising and nowadays you cant even keep up with the prices

TeHjAcKaL.2975:

So we complain that bots are around Anet fixes that, now we complain we want them back? make up your minds.

-I personally am glad bots are gone, and prices should settle on what they should be, t6 mats should be a somewhat rarish drop, if you have the $ then yes u can buy yourself all the t6 mats u want for ur legendary, its a “legendary” meaning hard to obtain, i never got hard to obtain stuff… you know… by having bots do the work for me, i mean easy:>

this actually helps the market alot, people who need money can actually sell their used to be unvaluable t6 mats for a decent price, they can now buy consumables/armors/etc or things they needed, people with money will pay, and they will still make money thats why its the tp, 1 person sells other buys, you dont have to be that other, by you and i both know, its probably gonna be you thats gonna be that other.

Lastly, as i do agree with Anet that prices should you know go back to being balanced
due to bots not supplying t6 mats etc anymore, i also agree that prices will get really high! and gold farming just isnt… cutting it, Anet needs to provide a way for players to make some decent cash for the market to truly, balance out, without diminishing returns if some1 wants to work themselves to the bone to make alot of money let them? if some people need spare change or enough for cool items that cost 10g and they have 1g, why should they have to work for 2-3-4 days cuz of diminishin returns?

Now that the supply will be regular again, we also need a decent way to actually buy/sell things. 300g for a precursor, or 250g or 200g, how many days do u think itll take to get that much g? if people make like 8g a day, probably less… lets calculate based off a 5g per day
300/5=60 days, 2 whole months. for 1 part of a legendary, 10g per day 30 days? thats ridiculous, now lets calculate repairs, miscellaneous tp’s etc etc, its gonna take longer than a month, or 60 days, and prices continue to rise on these precursors.
250g/5=50 days 250g/10=25
200g(lowest precursor ive seen)/5=40 200g/10=20 straight DAYS of farming, uninterrupted farming

-Now Anet i know this is not the only way to get a precursor, but when you check out a 45 minute youtube video of some1 throwing in hundreds of rares into the mystic forge, to get 0 precursors, and wasting over 100-150g on it, its really the only way to go, cuz Gambling for something that should be gotten out of hard work is not an option.

-We need a way to earn gold, without playing for 30/60 days straight to get enough gold for 1 precursor. now calculate how much itll cost to get the rest of that legendary and how much time itll take then tell me we dont deserve a way to get the G without the DR

The lowest precursor is 24g! The scepter is like 60g the horn is like 50g. Torch is back down to 65g.

Also 100g=/= precursor its not a guaranteed gamble. So I don’t know why people are suprised if a guy throws 100g in the forge and gets nothing. If I go buy $100 in lottery tickets I know that doesnt guarantee me a jackpot. If the person did any research and looked in the precursor R&D instead of thinking to himself 100g is my limit its precursor or bust. Most of the numbers point to 20% drop rate for exotic from the forge which you can resell to recoup the cost, sometimes you profit sometimes you break even or lose. Most agree that 300g ist he number you want to look at to get you close to that .1 for the precursor drop.

Also if you know how the process works you know that everything you do goes toward the legendary. So you grind karma on cursed and make money at the same time. You need at a min 750k karma if your lucky to get your 77 clovers and replace your shards for the 250. If you do the 1 or 10 recipe you will also get back t6 mats which go for you gift of x for the legendary. You might even jack pot and get 6 charged lodestones that you don’t need cause your making the Torch and you sell those on the TP for 12g-18g depending on what they are selling for. If you need map completion you get skill points you need to make the clovers and the bloodstone.

You make it sound like you have to have gold to do every piece of the legendary process and that it can only be worked on in succession and not simultaneously. While your farming cursed shore there are plenty of mithiril deposits around for you gift of metal, plenty of dust is going to drop and rares for ecto etc.

With all else going on I do have to say that this is an interesting development. I’m very interested to see how this plays out.

I still have no idea what mobs drop T6 Totems. I think I’ve had them drop 3 times in 300 hours of play.

I think everyone agrees that fewer bots is better for the game. The fluctuations we see in the short term (and it will be short) are just market reaction to an over-abundance of supply being removed. I agree that what we will ultimately end up with (long term) is a market that is actually player-based, instead of bot-based. And I will assume that once this happens, the DR that purportedly is there to guard against bots will be removed, making hard-core farming more viable for players. End result: more people are happy.

For those complaining about legendaries, I think the entire point was that legendaries are supposed to take months or even a year: it’s just that when the game started, things were not perfect and those who took advantage of weak systems early on reaped the rewards. And I am NOT even talking about exploiters here: I am talking about the people who put in the time and effort early on and took advantage of systems that were weak. Now that everyone knows how to make a legendary, for example, prices for certain items are far higher than before. That was their advantage of getting there early, and that’s just how legendaries work: if you know more, then everyone else knows more and prices adjust upwards accordingly. It will always take longer the longer you wait. The trading post was a mass experiment in completely free markets, and this is how free markets work: those who are rich stay rich.

Ultimately, if you want to compete in the legendary game but you don’t want to spend the massive amounts of hard-core time required to farm up a legendary, a means has been provided to you: real money. That’s the whole point: MMOs are a grind, and if you want to skip it you can choose to pay real money to get your pixel rewards.

Step One : Admit to ourselves that allowing Tyrian gold to be bought for cash means that GW2’s cash shop actually lists every item in game.

Step Two: Admit that the BLTP gem exchange is not a currency exchange market, it is a derivative market. Make no mistake the current market valuation of Tyrian gold is derived from Arenanet’s opening buy and sell orders and an algorithm translating player behavior.

Step Three: Replace every reference in this thread to Tyrian gold with your choice of real world currency.

John Smith.4610:

The price spike doesn’t represent a shortage, it represents prices returning to where they should be without bots. This change creates more opportunity for players playing the game to earn money. The oversupply the bots created hurt the legitimate producers of items. As the prices go up, more real players will enter the market.

John Smith, ask yourself and every other Arenanet employee this question….

Which “Developer as RMT”/Cash Shop model is more ethical/less exploitative, GW2’s or D3’s RMAH?

Just something to think about: while there will be a short term major rise in prices for farmable goods this price will stabilize lower than what it spikes at as players step into the role of farming.

Basically, it wasn’t worth spending the time farming for goods so people would just buy them. Now there is value for players to farm so they will. This will increase the supply which will lower the price. Will prices go as low as they were before? Probably not but they might since once players start doing an activity on a regular basis they continue to do so. This was demonstrated in EVE Online when CCP banned a huge number of farming bots.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=687

whiran.1473:

Just something to think about: while there will be a short term major rise in prices for farmable goods this price will stabilize lower than what it spikes at as players step into the role of farming.

Basically, it wasn’t worth spending the time farming for goods so people would just buy them. Now there is value for players to farm so they will. This will increase the supply which will lower the price. Will prices go as low as they were before? Probably not but they might since once players start doing an activity on a regular basis they continue to do so. This was demonstrated in EVE Online when CCP banned a huge number of farming bots.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=687

I doubt this; first of all players do not enjoy farming – not that much. They can never compete with the bots on the supply-side.

Second, those T6 materials are primarily used for legendaries. Most people farming legendaries will not be getting alot of those materials. Furthermore, they won’t likely pursue those materials in Frostgorge where the primary (scarce) sources are because they gain so much more comparatively by farming Cursed Shore; Karma, the occasional ectos, orichalcum etc.

Third, is EVE Online a suitable comparison for GW2? Is this the direction Anet wants to take the game? EVE’s entry-barrier is insanely steep (something others have succinctly pointed out GW2’s is increasingly becoming) and the game is in many ways necessitating its players to utilize spreadsheets etc. in order to remain succesful.
Is this the model Anet is gunning for?

Right now it seems like this fluffy economic exercise in a free market is worth more than the players playing. Yes, banning bots will make farming more profitable. It will also make buying materials comparatively worse, particularly if you can’t unload alot of materials unto the TP (again, see legendary issues).

Do people want to be shoehorned into even more farming than they already are, provided they want more than ‘just’ standard skins? Doubt it, regardless of rewards. It is time to put fun before economics and increase drop-rates of some items such as Lodestones and T6 materials, either through actual increased drop-rates or additional drop sources.
Right now we’ve taken a time-machine back to EQ1. It’s medieval, draconian and a kittendation; GW2 was supposed to move the genre forward.

Strangely I’ve been noticing prices crashing on all the items I used to sell…

T5/T6 ore, logs, dust; herbs (T1-T6), gems (T1-T6) have all dropped in value so much that I’m sitting on them waiting for them to go back up…

All ANet has to do is increase the drop rate of precursor to legendary weapons (a dramatic price point decrease) now that botting is severely reduced. This will push the market back to normalization for the overall cost of legendary weapons while allowing the market to freely flow with the other items needed to craft them based on a more economically sound model of supply and demand.

It’s so simple that I would be surprised that John Smith hasn’t seen it and recommended it already.

You don’t need to increase the drop rates of everything – only target what is a scarce resource. This also punishes those individuals that attempt mass-scale market manipulation.

why do you want to make a legendary easy to obtain??? its legendary geeze people back in wow in vanilla if you had the hand of rag there was only a couple other people legendary is a legendary they arnt going to just give them away.. anyways as far as the spike in prices i like it maybe we will have more flow of gold later down the road right now its going to suck but eventually there will be more money to play with and repairs and waypoints wont seem like such a drag..

Artaz.3819:

All ANet has to do is increase the drop rate of precursor to legendary weapons (a dramatic price point decrease) now that botting is severely reduced. This will push the market back to normalization for the overall cost of legendary weapons while allowing the market to freely flow with the other items needed to craft them based on a more economically sound model of supply and demand.

It’s so simple that I would be surprised that John Smith hasn’t seen it and recommended it already.

You don’t need to increase the drop rates of everything – only target what is a scarce resource. This also punishes those individuals that attempt mass-scale market manipulation.

Nope because more people with precursors = more lodestones that need to be required. Which means lodestone prices go up. I still don’t get why people think precursor=legendary and forget the rest of the components. Almost every argument never examines what would happen if more people had more precursors.

225 charged lodestones available right now. Thats not enough to craft 1 Aether and either 2 Sunrises or 2 Bolts. When they sell out any lodes that hit the market will sell at premium and you will be trying to get your lodestones competing against everyone else in the world making the same weapon as you. Hey you got your precursor though. Your going to have to probably pay now the price for the precursor in lodestones if not more!

TravisTrout.6803:

Oh, so that’s why fine crafting materials (300+) are suddenly twice as expensive. I should have filled my bank when they went below 20c.

Did I say twice? It’s more like 3×.

The cost of playing your gambling endgame just went through the roof.

Precursors being too expensive or hard to get is not the problem with Tyria’s economy. If we end there, then I think we need to start with NPCs giving our heroes Tyrian gold as being the problem. Since all games will generate a supply of their currency as long as someone plays, we could start with GW2 being popular. All of you get out of Tyria I want my Legendary! I would say that if Arenanet hadn’t broken my heart.

As Heros of Tyrian we have one of the best jobs in the world, we are guaranteed an income just for participating. The endless rain of income fills the landscape as water does; forms streams, oceans, icebergs. Precursors are simply the deepest well Tyria has to fill. But it can and does overflow and the point that it does is what we are experiencing as economic weather. The bottom of that well is rapidly being gouged away by Tyrian heroes heroing. The water has no where to go because Arenanet’s inaccurate RMT valuation has built a dam around the well.

It’s safe to assume that ArenaNet is making adjustments to the economy based on information about the game that we don’t currently have. They’re adding a whole new area mid-month, and have said outright that they plan to expand the game a great deal in the future (implied to be the near-ish future, as opposed to waiting for an expansion a year from now). Does the current availability of materials and currency make sense if ArenaNet is planning to add a lot of max-level content that gives comparable rewards?

Nimraphel.7819:

Ping.5739:

@Nimraphel.7819

Your point completely base on “every one should be able to get a legendary relatively easily”, which, in fact, is not a reasonable opinion.

That is an outright lie. I have never ever written this anywhere nor even given even the slightest indication that this was my stance. This is either your pathetic attempt at slander or your inability to properly read. Either way, I challenge you to find a quote by me in which I say that ‘everyone should be able to get a legendary relatively easy’. Oh you can’t? Thank you. Let this kittendation stop.

I said that having a carrot dangling in front of players for 1+ year (and no, people, 3 hours a day every single day is not casual. 15+ hours a day are anomalies) is simply not sustainable. It is medieval.

Seems like your did not actually read my post. Please go back to my post, ignore that first sentence which made you screw up on my opinion and keep reading.

Bonefield.9813:

It’s safe to assume that ArenaNet is making adjustments to the economy based on information about the game that we don’t currently have. They’re adding a whole new area mid-month, and have said outright that they plan to expand the game a great deal in the future (implied to be the near-ish future, as opposed to waiting for an expansion a year from now). Does the current availability of materials and currency make sense if ArenaNet is planning to add a lot of max-level content that gives comparable rewards?

Are you suggesting that all the economy needs is more stuff?

Nimraphel.7819:

Third, is EVE Online a suitable comparison for GW2? Is this the direction Anet wants to take the game? EVE’s entry-barrier is insanely steep (something others have succinctly pointed out GW2’s is increasingly becoming) and the game is in many ways necessitating its players to utilize spreadsheets etc. in order to remain succesful.
Is this the model Anet is gunning for?

Lol. If you think the entry-barrier of EVE Online is insanely steep, you must be doing something really wrong=D. While I was in destroyers and fridges, I had such fun doing what I want to do.

EVE might not be a good comparison to GW2, but the market system of EVE is undoubtedly magnificent. The one you quoted probably was trying to compare the market system between EVE and GW2, but not the game.

By doing some research(mainly looking at your other posts), I found out that you did actually think “every one should be able to get a legendary relatively easy”. So chillax and work for it then.

Psientist.6437:

Bonefield.9813:

It’s safe to assume that ArenaNet is making adjustments to the economy based on information about the game that we don’t currently have. They’re adding a whole new area mid-month, and have said outright that they plan to expand the game a great deal in the future (implied to be the near-ish future, as opposed to waiting for an expansion a year from now). Does the current availability of materials and currency make sense if ArenaNet is planning to add a lot of max-level content that gives comparable rewards?

Are you suggesting that all the economy needs is more stuff?

I’m suggesting that the changes to the economy that seem unfairly restrictive now may be based on future plans to give us more ways to get the stuff that currently is very rare, expensive, and only available from one or two places.

Bonefield.9813:

Psientist.6437:

Bonefield.9813:

It’s safe to assume that ArenaNet is making adjustments to the economy based on information about the game that we don’t currently have. They’re adding a whole new area mid-month, and have said outright that they plan to expand the game a great deal in the future (implied to be the near-ish future, as opposed to waiting for an expansion a year from now). Does the current availability of materials and currency make sense if ArenaNet is planning to add a lot of max-level content that gives comparable rewards?

Are you suggesting that all the economy needs is more stuff?

I’m suggesting that the changes to the economy that seem unfairly restrictive now may be based on future plans to give us more ways to get the stuff that currently is very rare, expensive, and only available from one or two places.

That sounds like a gear treadmill for Arenanet…..

Having realized that a gear treadmill sucks for them, have they decided to put themselves on one, the Tyrian economy on one?

Psientist.6437:

Bonefield.9813:

Psientist.6437:

Bonefield.9813:

It’s safe to assume that ArenaNet is making adjustments to the economy based on information about the game that we don’t currently have. They’re adding a whole new area mid-month, and have said outright that they plan to expand the game a great deal in the future (implied to be the near-ish future, as opposed to waiting for an expansion a year from now). Does the current availability of materials and currency make sense if ArenaNet is planning to add a lot of max-level content that gives comparable rewards?

Are you suggesting that all the economy needs is more stuff?

I’m suggesting that the changes to the economy that seem unfairly restrictive now may be based on future plans to give us more ways to get the stuff that currently is very rare, expensive, and only available from one or two places.

That sounds like a gear treadmill for Arenanet…..

Having realized that a gear treadmill sucks for them, have they decided to put themselves on one, the Tyrian economy on one?

I have no idea how you got that from what I posted.

Right now we have a relatively small amount of max-level content compared to the rest of the game. Most high-end items are only available through that content, which means that stuff is far more rare and expensive than the stuff available in the rest of the world. That stuff also continues to be in demand after characters reach max level.

If they add more areas and activities that also reward those high-end items, availability will increase. For example, right now orichalcum is pretty hard to find, because spawn points are limited. Supply will increase if ArenaNet adds a number of areas through content patches which also contain orichalcum nodes.

A “gear treadmill” occurs when previous tiers of gear are made obsolete by new content, meaning you’re always chasing the next tier. What I’m talking about is horizontal expansion: the same stuff you were always after, made more widely available.

Ping.5739:

By doing some research(mainly looking at your other posts), I found out that you did actually think “every one should be able to get a legendary relatively easy”. So chillax and work for it then.

No, I don’t, and I have never said so. I have always advocated that it needs to require a large time- and dedication investment, but that 1 year+ requirement is simply unsustainable and medieval. More to the point, it runs counter to everything Anet said they wanted to accomplish.

I don’t know why you keep twisting people’s word into something that suits you, but I have, once again, made my distinction for you. I think 3 months – 6 tops – is what can be required of a legendary, provided one plays 3 hour every single day. No, that is still not casual by the way. What you seem to argue is that that is too easy. I’d argue it precludes any sensible individual with anything even remotely resembling a life.

I have been vocal about what I think is wrong but I haven’t offered anything except “Stop it”. Economic forecasting is no easier than weather forecasting and instead of heat and moisture you have Dusk, green wood logs, a skale boss, me, you…Who wants to look like an idiot when the sun doesn’t shine? More importantly, I don’t want to be that home-owner that tells a builder how to pound nails.

Arenanet, there is a terrible smell and noise coming from the basement, could you please check. These are my tools, I am stilling using a NERD1000, but who knows, if it stops that stench…

Alternates are your long game, make having them easier.

Evolve Karma into an a more viable option to Tyrian gold: account bind Karma, play with karma marketplace, perhaps a bazaar in the major cities, festival items for karma, MF recipes using karma. Evolve it but keep it within the bounds of what it represents in the context of traditional mmo economies: quest rewards.

Change bag unlock and costumes to account bound upgrades. Leave dye unlocks as is, only thing wrong with them is that you once said they would be much cooler.

Use Achievement points to reward heroes with gems. The ratio is completely up to you but will give you a way to measure, according to your ethics, what a precursor is worth in cash.

Turning the algorithm off will mean stopping gems sales and temporarily halting the sale of Tyrian gold. Make it easy to spend our gems by slashing prices on everything available for gems, especially mystic keys. A MF recipe combing chests and gems may be fun. Only the people who are holding gems for speculation would be adversely affected. Once the algorithm is well and truly dead and you have given us time to spend our current gems and have a handle on how many gem.0s achievement points are being generated, resume trading of Tyrian gold without any interference from Arenanet.

Bonefield.9813:

Psientist.6437:

Bonefield.9813:

Psientist.6437:

Bonefield.9813:

It’s safe to assume that ArenaNet is making adjustments to the economy based on information about the game that we don’t currently have. They’re adding a whole new area mid-month, and have said outright that they plan to expand the game a great deal in the future (implied to be the near-ish future, as opposed to waiting for an expansion a year from now). Does the current availability of materials and currency make sense if ArenaNet is planning to add a lot of max-level content that gives comparable rewards?

Are you suggesting that all the economy needs is more stuff?

I’m suggesting that the changes to the economy that seem unfairly restrictive now may be based on future plans to give us more ways to get the stuff that currently is very rare, expensive, and only available from one or two places.

That sounds like a gear treadmill for Arenanet…..

Having realized that a gear treadmill sucks for them, have they decided to put themselves on one, the Tyrian economy on one?

I have no idea how you got that from what I posted.

Right now we have a relatively small amount of max-level content compared to the rest of the game. Most high-end items are only available through that content, which means that stuff is far more rare and expensive than the stuff available in the rest of the world. That stuff also continues to be in demand after characters reach max level.

If they add more areas and activities that also reward those high-end items, availability will increase. For example, right now orichalcum is pretty hard to find, because spawn points are limited. Supply will increase if ArenaNet adds a number of areas through content patches which also contain orichalcum nodes.

A “gear treadmill” occurs when previous tiers of gear are made obsolete by new content, meaning you’re always chasing the next tier. What I’m talking about is horizontal expansion: the same stuff you were always after, made more widely available.

That would accomplish the same thing as increasing the drop rate of the current content.

Psientist.6437:

Bonefield.9813:

Psientist.6437:

Bonefield.9813:

Psientist.6437:

Bonefield.9813:

It’s safe to assume that ArenaNet is making adjustments to the economy based on information about the game that we don’t currently have. They’re adding a whole new area mid-month, and have said outright that they plan to expand the game a great deal in the future (implied to be the near-ish future, as opposed to waiting for an expansion a year from now). Does the current availability of materials and currency make sense if ArenaNet is planning to add a lot of max-level content that gives comparable rewards?

Are you suggesting that all the economy needs is more stuff?

I’m suggesting that the changes to the economy that seem unfairly restrictive now may be based on future plans to give us more ways to get the stuff that currently is very rare, expensive, and only available from one or two places.

That sounds like a gear treadmill for Arenanet…..

Having realized that a gear treadmill sucks for them, have they decided to put themselves on one, the Tyrian economy on one?

I have no idea how you got that from what I posted.

Right now we have a relatively small amount of max-level content compared to the rest of the game. Most high-end items are only available through that content, which means that stuff is far more rare and expensive than the stuff available in the rest of the world. That stuff also continues to be in demand after characters reach max level.

If they add more areas and activities that also reward those high-end items, availability will increase. For example, right now orichalcum is pretty hard to find, because spawn points are limited. Supply will increase if ArenaNet adds a number of areas through content patches which also contain orichalcum nodes.

A “gear treadmill” occurs when previous tiers of gear are made obsolete by new content, meaning you’re always chasing the next tier. What I’m talking about is horizontal expansion: the same stuff you were always after, made more widely available.

That would accomplish the same thing as increasing the drop rate of the current content.

Exactly. However, my point is that they may not be increasing the drop rate of the current content because they might have plans to expand availability through future content, and that, in addition to greater drop rates in current content, would result in too much supply in the future.

There are two potential solutions to that:

1) Decrease the drop rate in current content when new content is released to adjust for the amount of supply they’d like to have. I can think of several reasons why they might not want to do that, the most likely-seeming being that they would basically have to decide now how much supply of everything they want in circulation and keep it there throughout all of their content releases.

2) Restrict supply while the game is very new and allow availability to expand naturally as more content is added. This is what I think they’re doing, and the only reason not to do it this way is to accommodate people who would like to finish gearing up and customizing their characters within the first few months of the game.

In short, I think ArenaNet’s economic team is probably planning for the long term and adjusting drop rates and availability based on where they’d like to see accessibility for things like legendaries and exotics months from now, when the game is more mature and there’s more content for players to gain rewards through.

I know I brought up legendaries.

But lets take a look at something like crafting a set of exotic gear.

There are 5 accessory slots and 6 armor slots and 2-4+ weapons depending on dual wield vs 2handers.

It takes 5 ectoplasms PER exotic. so 5(5+6+2) = 65 ectoplams minimul to craft out a set of exotic gear.
YES I am aware you can get by just fine with a solid set of rare gear and run dungeons and turn in those tokens to get exotics too.
YES I am also aware that you can use karma to purchase exotic gear as well.
Grinding dungeons (and/or karma) to gear out a second (or 3rd ) 80 is just…

Over 2 months of play I have managed to obtain 37 ectoplasms. This is just from exotcs and rare drops that have landed my way that I have then turned around and salvaged for materials.
THIS is part of the problem. The absolutly garbage drop rate on rare and exotics.

Now. I have ONLY talked about 1 of the materials required to craft exotics.

You ALSO need things like Vials of Powerful Blood (T6 uncommon material). Each piece of armor required 15 T6 UNCOMMON, not even RARE or EXOTIC but UNCOMMON, materials. Where exactly are players suposed to find these drops? Not to mention the 90 they would need to craft a set of exotic armor.
THIS is part of the problem. The absolute garbage drop rate on UNCOMMON T6 crafting materials.

I am not supporting botting. But they DID at least provide a reasonable supply of UNCOMMON crafting materials and put them into the market.

I am glad that the market is “Adjusting” to their “normal” cost, HOWEVER the expectation of cost of materials has already been set. There are 2 months worth of cost history that has already been established. Like it or not, agree with it or not, its happened.
(edit) IF you didnt like what they bots were doing to the economy they YOU should have acted quicker to prevent their influence.

What IS happening is players are seeing the value of their gold diminished.
What IS happening is players are seeing substantially less buying power with their gold/silver/copper.

Outfitting 8 alts in exotics will be difficult but less difficult than making a Legendary weapon.

I think a big issue with the legendaries is also the insane opportunity cost you’re foregoing to get them.

I like cultural armor, I like it a lot. It’s pricey, but also flashy and represents the races of Tyria well.

To craft even a single legendary weapon, I would spend more gold than it would cost to outfit all the characters I ever plan on making with every set of cultural armor over the entire life of the game.

Why would I work over a year to get something a tiny bit flashy, when the alternatives would be having so much gold that I would literally never have to worry about income again? It would be having enough money to buy pretty much anything I wanted, whenever I wanted. That’s the kind of economic security players want in-game.

To have a single item that costs more than years worth of cross-character content is insane, especially given that purchasing lots of armor for lots of different characters is a much better strategy for longetivity than trying to convince someone it’s a good idea to go for one insanely overpriced item on one character by what essentially comes down to farming certain areas over and over for months on end.

1 flashy weapon on 1 character in certain pockets of farm vs. 8 characters worth of 1-80 experience, play, and gear across the entire game.

If the former is supposed to be a comparable “epic Guild Wars 2 experience” to the latter, the priorities for game longetivity are really screwed up.

If the prices are all going up, then the money made from dungeon running should also go up. Melting everything for mats becomes cost-effective, instead of just selling to the nearest vendor, right? Doesn’t this cover at least half the cost increase? Maybe the current shortage of essential mats is a situation that will correct itself…

Salvaging doesnt give stuff like claws or blood or lodestones.

The cost of playing your gambling endgame just went through the roof.

Indeed. My last gamble this morning looked to cost about 2-3x as much, and it didn’t help matters when the first batch of forges produced no exotics. Luckily, my next batch resulted in Spark, so I’ll suspend my gambling on a good note — well, until prices stabilize.

Nimraphel.7819

Let’s not compare GW1 and GW2 please; one was and is a niché mmo/CORPG, the other one is a triple A title with a persistent world and massive growth over its predecessor.

GW1 may have started out as a CORPG, but by ANet’s own admission, it ended up evolving into a MMO when players started treating it that way. Besides, I’m not sure I see much difference in the way players are approaching both games; most players just end up solo’ing most events in the game world (or with Heroes/henchies in GW1). The only time organised groups are formed are for high-level content like dungeons (of which GW1 also had) and for farming difficult areas (GW2 has Orr, GW1 has FoW/UW).

Nimraphel.7819

Anyway, do you honestly believe that ‘the average player’ will ‘put his mind to saving up for a legendary’ for 3-4 years? Of which the majority of the time will be spent repeating the same Cursed Shore events over and over and over? Instead of going to another games that, y’know, actually have a better measurement of effort/reward.

At the risk of sounding elitist, the “average player” probably wasn’t intended to GET a Legendary. As some have mentioned, if everybody had a Legendary, they would hardly be Legendary items anymore, would they? I’m just making the case that I believe it is possible for an average player (defined as somebody who plays for an hour or two a day) to have saved up enough over the course of GW2’s lifetime to get one. ANet’s not going to stop with just vanilla GW2; there will be expansions and free additional content for at least a few years to come. For an average player who sticks with the game for that period of time, I find it hard to believe they won’t build up a substantial bank account to be able to afford a Legendary at some point in the future.

For a casual player who maybe only does 2 hours a week, then heads to another game when they get bored, only to come back when new content is released, then yes, they won’t get a Legendary, but I think such a player wouldn’t have the savings to get much of ANY end-game content, let alone a Legendary.

Besides, there are other ways to earn money than by farming a single location over and over. I hear that prices for T6 mats have risen quite a bit since the mass bot banning two days ago. Why not seek out places where such mats drop and farm there instead for a change? Or do Dungeons? Or if you get really burnt out on all this farming for one character, take a break and make an alt and just play through the game? You can always put the earnings the alt makes towards your main’s Legendary fund.

I am as psyched about this war on bots, and the economic implications, as any new content. Great work Anet!

Nimraphel.7819:

Ping.5739:

By doing some research(mainly looking at your other posts), I found out that you did actually think “every one should be able to get a legendary relatively easy”. So chillax and work for it then.

No, I don’t, and I have never said so. I have always advocated that it needs to require a large time- and dedication investment, but that 1 year+ requirement is simply unsustainable and medieval. More to the point, it runs counter to everything Anet said they wanted to accomplish.

I don’t know why you keep twisting people’s word into something that suits you, but I have, once again, made my distinction for you. I think 3 months – 6 tops – is what can be required of a legendary, provided one plays 3 hour every single day. No, that is still not casual by the way. What you seem to argue is that that is too easy. I’d argue it precludes any sensible individual with anything even remotely resembling a life.

Ok now I saw the question: while I was thinking that one year for a legendary is relatively fast, for you one year is relatively slow. Are we clear?

Yes you never said so. It’s me who concluded it into my own word just like what you have done. You also did a great job on twisting my word into yours. Fair enough.

I think one year is fast because the game is completely free after the first purchase. If one likes the game, he/she will go for the legendary no matter how long it will take. But if he/she doesn’t like it and is only aiming for legendary, I personally don’t think he/she will keep playing the game after the legendary has been accomplished. So take this matter to a larger extent, like rare drops and other crafting materials.

If you think the game is not as fruitful as what you expected, then leave. Easy. I am willing to invest my time, even if the final goal will “waste” five or more years of my life, simply because I love the game and enjoy the process of getting closer to the goal.

Nimraphel.7819:

Ping.5739:

By doing some research(mainly looking at your other posts), I found out that you did actually think “every one should be able to get a legendary relatively easy”. So chillax and work for it then.

No, I don’t, and I have never said so. I have always advocated that it needs to require a large time- and dedication investment, but that 1 year+ requirement is simply unsustainable and medieval. More to the point, it runs counter to everything Anet said they wanted to accomplish.

I don’t know why you keep twisting people’s word into something that suits you, but I have, once again, made my distinction for you. I think 3 months – 6 tops – is what can be required of a legendary, provided one plays 3 hour every single day. No, that is still not casual by the way. What you seem to argue is that that is too easy. I’d argue it precludes any sensible individual with anything even remotely resembling a life.

You expect someone who invests 3 hrs/day to be able to get a legendary within 6 months? wow…if thats the case 70% of the playing population would have a legendary within half a year, thats just stupid design in a game that would last for >5 years. One function of the legendaries is to keep interested people playing for long periods of time. ANET is running a business here. What you find unacceptable, others are fine with it. You are indeed saying “every one should be able to get a legendary relatively easy”. For a ultimate in skin rarity, 3/hrs a day x 6 months is nothing. You put the same amount of hours in games like WOW, and you wouldn’t even be halfway there. In WOW’s case its even more exclusive, since you have to be in the top raiding guilds and be the foremost in the guild to even be considered a candidate.

Nimraphel.7819:

Ping.5739:

By doing some research(mainly looking at your other posts), I found out that you did actually think “every one should be able to get a legendary relatively easy”. So chillax and work for it then.

No, I don’t, and I have never said so. I have always advocated that it needs to require a large time- and dedication investment, but that 1 year+ requirement is simply unsustainable and medieval. More to the point, it runs counter to everything Anet said they wanted to accomplish.

I don’t know why you keep twisting people’s word into something that suits you, but I have, once again, made my distinction for you. I think 3 months – 6 tops – is what can be required of a legendary, provided one plays 3 hour every single day. No, that is still not casual by the way. What you seem to argue is that that is too easy. I’d argue it precludes any sensible individual with anything even remotely resembling a life.

I have also played a little bit of WoW before, though I finally found out I don’t like both the game and the community. The main goal I was focusing on was the phoenix mount dropped by Kael’thas in Tempest Keep. That’s one of the rarest drop in the game and it doesn’t have any real use. In order to get it, I had to farm once a week(the related dungeon refreshes every week), about three hours each time since I was not well-geared, and the drop is not guaranteed—all by luck. I have continuously farmed for one and a half year even though it never dropped. But I still enjoy the process since it was me who chose to farm it and it was me who decided that I won’t give up.

But sadly I got all screwed up by the game and the community on other aspect so I quit before I achieve my goal.

That’s how a no-lifer I am. If you like it, go hard for it, or you will probably not get it. This is also part of my life philosophy. Don’t mean to go hard, just want to show you how much a looser I am.

This is one of the most fruitful post in the entire forum lol.
Love reading it.

Ping.5739:

This is one of the most fruitful post in the entire forum lol.
Love reading it.

Indeed! Is there a more fitting topic for a Tyrian pub!

Banning bots/RMT is out of question the right thing to do but the mechanism needs a lot of improvements since many honest players have been wrongfully banned as collateral damage.

ChungHan Ho.5837:

Banning bots/RMT is out of question the right thing to do but the mechanism needs a lot of improvements since many honest players have been wrongfully banned as collateral damage.

There usually will be a few innocents caught up in the sweep, but you can appeal the banning to ANet support who can check their records and unban you if it was an honest mistake.

But most of the time? People who claim to have been banned incorrectly are guilty as sin.

Zaxares.5419:

ChungHan Ho.5837:

Banning bots/RMT is out of question the right thing to do but the mechanism needs a lot of improvements since many honest players have been wrongfully banned as collateral damage.

There usually will be a few innocents caught up in the sweep, but you can appeal the banning to ANet support who can check their records and unban you if it was an honest mistake.

But most of the time? People who claim to have been banned incorrectly are guilty as sin.

Thanks for the advice and I have already done so. But here I have a point that some other guy brought on the thread complaining about accounts being wrongfully banned and it does make some sense imo.

Those real bot/gold sellers won’t appeal or complain on the forum because doing so is not efficient and simply buying another new accounts to keep making money might actually be what they are going to do next.

Of course, some people claiming to be innocent might be guilty but with the vast amount of complaints made on the forum, there must be something very wrong here and the innocents are probably more than a few.