Guild Wars 2

Wow 50g/hr ? Really?

Rising Dusk.2408:

The thing about the Trading Post is that it doesn’t introduce gold into the game, it actually removes it while moving it between players. In that vein, the Trading Post will always be the most powerful tool for those who wish to make tons of in-game money. You will never earn more gold playing the game than you could playing the Trading Post smartly. The reason is clear: playing the game creates gold, which must be regulated.

this

Ohoni.6057:

Currency is not loot. Removing currency from champion loot bags only “nerfs loot” insofar as there is a reduction in farming of those loot bags which is not offset by increased productive action elsewhere.

Currency is loot. It is only one type of loot, but it is within the larger family of “loot.” Loot is anything which you receive in the game, be it items or gold, from mobs or from chests or from events. Reducing the currency awarded does decrease the total loot received, unless they balance that out by adding in other items, for example if they reduced the amount of coin earned by an average of 1s, but added an extra piece of green gear to the loot, then fair enough, scales balanced, but they did not announce that so far.

Currency is not loot. It’s non-productive (except insofar as it can be used to “create” items by purchasing them from NPC). Removing currency from loot bags does not decrease the supply of usable items in the economy, it only decreases the relative proportion those items consume of the money supply. All things being equal, removing currency from loot bag drops would have no impact on the number of items in the economy. Changing the exchange rate for gold does not actually impact the generation of useful economic items. What effects it does have are actually deflationary as well, which further goes against your inaccurate claims.

Ohoni.6057:

That’s my problem with the current economy, it’s player verses player and only the payers that fool other players successfully profit from it. The economic model should be cooperative, in which players help other players to find the items they need, and players pay a fair rate for those items, but which don’t rely on the other players knowing less about how the game works than you do in order to make your profits.

The thing is, though, the economy is not PvP. In order for it to be PvP there would need to be an endgame, and there isn’t. If you make 100 gold on a trade, whether to an NPC or another player, that doesn’t mean there is only X-100 gold left for me to earn. I just need to make my own 100 gold, either via similar exchange or through my own harvesting methods. The economy is action based, and so long as people continue taking actions the economy will continue to develop, and there will continue to be other gold for players to acquire or spend as they see fit. The speed of the income has no impact on the amount of resources available.

I think the question is, what do you want the gold for, personally? Are you trying to cash it in for gems? Do you just want the fattest wallet? To purchase a drop skin that you really like? Because I can’t see the end to your arguments other than, “If I sell something to someone for $, they can’t turn around and sell it for $1 because I should have gotten $1”.

As said i agree with risingdusk with 2 exceptions

1) the cure is worse than the disease…it creates wealth disparities that have the same effect as a hugely gold inflated economies

This is because DEV, balance economy Always for its favourite community.
Aside the “validity” of some action like the SILK débâcle, such actions are ALWAYS done when offer exceeds demand

When the situation is opposite the dev refuse to take any action except really few cases.

This makes the TP a speculator paradise with 0 risk and lot of reward, and favour market manipulations.

2) there are better and more fair gold sinks……taxes are just the easiest one if you lack creativity imho.

I still find illogic this game prompotes TP more than playing the game itself.

Do you see signs “promoting” the TP from ANet? No, the people who are “promoting” are the ones who keep saying that the only way to make a lot of gold in the game is to play the TP and how unfair it is.

Behellagh.1468:

Do you see signs “promoting” the TP from ANet? No, the people who are “promoting” are the ones who keep saying that the only way to make a lot of gold in the game is to play the TP and how unfair it is.

+1

if it was risk free and easy, everybody would be doing it.

Wanze.8410:

+1

if it was risk free and easy, everybody would be doing it.

I would argue that everybody “not playing the game” is infact doing it.
The point is many players bought the game to kill stuff or attend WWW or PvP and not to play market Tycoon…

LordByron.8369:

Wanze.8410:

+1

if it was risk free and easy, everybody would be doing it.

I would argue that everybody “not playing the game” is infact doing it.
The point is many players bought the game to kill stuff or attend WWW or PvP and not to play market Tycoon…

Nothing is stopping those players from killing stuff or attending WvW or PvP.

Except not having fun forced by a broken economy to play something they don t like….
Its like if they forced you to play a match of PvP every time you wanted to access the TP.

I should not even discuss a system that makes an athletic competition won by whoever get the most fashinable shoes…even if it makes sponsors pay more….

LordByron.8369:

Except not having fun forced by a broken economy to play something they don t like….
Its like if they forced you to play a match of PvP every time you wanted to access the TP.

I should not even discuss a system that makes an athletic competition won by whoever get the most fashinable shoes…even if it makes sponsors pay more….

No aspect of the game’s economy prevents you from enjoying any aspect of the game’s content.

I can do PvE (open map, fractals, or dungeons), WvW, and PvP without ever opening the Trading Post (I know this is true, because I do it almost every day).

LordByron.8369:

Wanze.8410:

+1

if it was risk free and easy, everybody would be doing it.

I would argue that everybody “not playing the game” is infact doing it.
The point is many players bought the game to kill stuff or attend WWW or PvP and not to play market Tycoon…

Well, they dont exactly need tons of gold to play PvP. And if WvW would be unrewarding and you make less than 10g per day while playing a couple of hours, why do you think people dont spend 30 min on the tp, if it was such a risk free and easy way to earn 10g? Why do they opt to run World Bosses, dungeons or the champ train for 1-2 hours to get 10g?

Because making lots of gold on the TP is neither risk free or easy.

That is because GW2 is not grindy, because “every player should be able to have the best equip as soon as he reach 80” and because GW2 is not skin based i guess…..

So TP heroes are not making the game worse for the little benefit of improving overall economy by a small % while ruining 99% players economy by a lot….

But to tell the truth since i think i read the same old objections since 2 years that have already been disproved by many players i doubt repeating will be of any use….

@wannze… WWW is unrewarding and even Dungeon speedfarmers are forced to actually spend time on the TP….

Only people avoiding it are those who don t care are supercasuals, people without money to invest and people who think TP flip is immoral since its more the damage to the Whole community than the benefit.
(personal benefit is obviously good).

I don’t really mind the reduced coin. What I’d like to see however are increased item drops that are not directly converted to coin. This would reduce coinage further and add a sense of reward which coin simply cannot. Ofc I am assuming this concept falls upon deaf ears and blind eyes as those with the ability to do something about it have proven to not have a grasp on the subject matter.

Essence Snow.3194:

I don’t really mind the reduced coin. What I’d like to see however are increased item drops that are not directly converted to coin. This would reduce coinage further and add a sense of reward which coin simply cannot. Ofc I am assuming this concept falls upon deaf ears and blind eyes as those with the ability to do something about it have proven to not have a grasp on the subject matter.

Maybe if you didn’t insult people so readily you would get better responses from others

I don’t think an increase in drop rates of items would remove more coin from the game. More items might be sold on the TP but the tax on the item would decrease as the value of the item decreases with the increased supply.

Schizo.1375:

Essence Snow.3194:

I don’t really mind the reduced coin. What I’d like to see however are increased item drops that are not directly converted to coin. This would reduce coinage further and add a sense of reward which coin simply cannot. Ofc I am assuming this concept falls upon deaf ears and blind eyes as those with the ability to do something about it have proven to not have a grasp on the subject matter.

Maybe if you didn’t insult people so readily you would get better responses from others

I don’t think an increase in drop rates of items would remove more coin from the game. More items might be sold on the TP but the tax on the item would decrease as the value of the item decreases with the increased supply.

Wasn’t expecting a response from anyone so umm yeah.

Items obtained via drops which are then sold on the tp and then consumed do remove coin from the game. The amount of which via taxes and direct coin is a balancing act which requires an assessment that needs to not only consider direct numbers but the weight of how rewarding it may be to increase such.

LordByron.8369:

So TP heroes are not making the game worse for the little benefit of improving overall economy by a small % while ruining 99% players economy by a lot….

But to tell the truth since i think i read the same old objections since 2 years that have already been disproved by many players i doubt repeating will be of any use….

The only thing you a claiming for 2 years now is that there is a small percentage of rich players that somehow hyperinflate the economy and make it worse for everybody else.

Yet, i have to see you prove this claim. You never even mentioned, how much the game economy inflated (because you cant).

I’m not sure he or she means they inflate the economy, but inflate individual item costs. Could be mistaken idk.

Essence Snow.3194:

I don’t really mind the reduced coin. What I’d like to see however are increased item drops that are not directly converted to coin. This would reduce coinage further and add a sense of reward which coin simply cannot. Ofc I am assuming this concept falls upon deaf ears and blind eyes as those with the ability to do something about it have proven to not have a grasp on the subject matter.

They have done this with Dragonite, Empyreal Shards and to some extend Bloodstone Dust (dust can be crafted into something sellable).
By the amount of QQ from players that want to exchange their excess ascended mats for coin (by a vendor or on the tp) shows that your proposed way isnt really what people want. Account bound rewards work well with account bound (meta) achievements, imho, but not with farmable content because people will complain about its uselessness, as soon as they get more than they need.

mtpelion.4562:

Champ farming was a TERRIBLE way to try and make gold. It was mainly for XP, crafting materials, karma, and luck, none of which are impacted by this change.

If you were farming champs for the gold drops… I mean… I don’t even know what to say…. maybe “don’t”?

I am not focusing on gold for champ farming, I just want my skill points.

Wanze.8410:

Essence Snow.3194:

I don’t really mind the reduced coin. What I’d like to see however are increased item drops that are not directly converted to coin. This would reduce coinage further and add a sense of reward which coin simply cannot. Ofc I am assuming this concept falls upon deaf ears and blind eyes as those with the ability to do something about it have proven to not have a grasp on the subject matter.

They have done this with Dragonite, Empyreal Shards and to some extend Bloodstone Dust (dust can be crafted into something sellable).
By the amount of QQ from players that want to exchange their excess ascended mats for coin (by a vendor or on the tp) shows that your proposed way isnt really what people want. Account bound rewards work well with account bound (meta) achievements, imho, but not with farmable content because people will complain about its uselessness, as soon as they get more than they need.

Can you elaborate further please? Which from those are sellable? Are they intertwined with time gates?

Essence Snow.3194:

Can you elaborate further please? Which from those are sellable? Are they intertwined with time gates?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodstone_Dust

Check out the list of recipes.
The bottom 3 in particular.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodstone_Brick

There are also 3 recipes here which can be sold.

Those 3 sellable items costs exceed thier sellable values.

Essence Snow.3194:

I’m not sure he or she means they inflate the economy, but inflate individual item costs. Could be mistaken idk.

Well, thats how in general, inflation is measured, the cost of a basket of items over time.
However, you still have to take into the account, how much gold is generated on average per player per day, from bags, event rewards, etc. A player can measure item value inflation (a good approach has been done in this topic: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Gold-Inflation-Research/first#post3645705 )
but we as players will have a hard time getting accurate numbers on gold generated per day.

But if you played since release, i guess you will admit that earning gold through regular gameplay (not by trading) is far easier now than in the first 6 months.

Essence Snow.3194:

Those 3 sellable items costs exceed thier sellable values.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/recipe/7839

13s15c profit.

After 2660 plies of dust are consumed b/c we need to consider the costs of the recipe (was that limited in availability?). Anywho ofc this is also highly subject to fluctuations as it is a very limited market.

Yeah I’m going to have to conclude that that’s not the best example of how it could be done or how it may play out.

Essence Snow.3194:

Wanze.8410:

Essence Snow.3194:

I don’t really mind the reduced coin. What I’d like to see however are increased item drops that are not directly converted to coin. This would reduce coinage further and add a sense of reward which coin simply cannot. Ofc I am assuming this concept falls upon deaf ears and blind eyes as those with the ability to do something about it have proven to not have a grasp on the subject matter.

They have done this with Dragonite, Empyreal Shards and to some extend Bloodstone Dust (dust can be crafted into something sellable).
By the amount of QQ from players that want to exchange their excess ascended mats for coin (by a vendor or on the tp) shows that your proposed way isnt really what people want. Account bound rewards work well with account bound (meta) achievements, imho, but not with farmable content because people will complain about its uselessness, as soon as they get more than they need.

Can you elaborate further please? Which from those are sellable? Are they intertwined with time gates?

As already mentioned, the toxic Nourishments (sharpening stone, focussing crystal and oil) give you some copper per bloodstone in general but of course depending on the market. The recipes for those got reintroduced in the Ultimate Citizens Rescue Bag, which made them available to a broader base of crafters, which resulted in lower profit.

Also, even if the 5 different specific endless wintersday tonics (griffon, soldier, golem, doll, ventari) are account bound, you still have the chance to throw 4 of them into the mf and you get either the 5th one back (bad luck) or a endless wintersday tonic or a endless gift dolyak tonic. Both are tradeable. And with the gift dolyak tonic at 142g/212g, there might even be some profit in it.

So can you see how that whole deal defeats trying to make a reward rewarding?

Essence Snow.3194:

So can you see how that whole deal defeats trying to make a reward rewarding?

What are you referring to exactly?

In an effort to make the ascended mats more rewarding They make you jump through hoops and make it subject to multiple markets at the same time. The rewarding aspect of it all is effected by the process and the subjectivity.

Essence Snow.3194:

In an effort to make the ascended mats more rewarding They make you jump through hoops and make it subject to multiple markets at the same time. The rewarding aspect of it all is effected by the process and the subjectivity.

I’m not sure I understand what you are trying to say here but the rewarding aspect of these materials are hurt by the fact that people have a bunch of these, without jumping through hoops, and nothing to do with it (for the most part).

Schizo.1375:

Essence Snow.3194:

In an effort to make the ascended mats more rewarding They make you jump through hoops and make it subject to multiple markets at the same time. The rewarding aspect of it all is effected by the process and the subjectivity.

I’m not sure I understand what you are trying to say here but the rewarding aspect of these materials are hurt by the fact that people have a bunch of these, without jumping through hoops, and nothing to do with it (for the most part).

You might want to start from the beginning of the convo where this orignated. It can be kinda hard to understand the just of it from midst of it all.

Essence Snow.3194:

Schizo.1375:

Essence Snow.3194:

In an effort to make the ascended mats more rewarding They make you jump through hoops and make it subject to multiple markets at the same time. The rewarding aspect of it all is effected by the process and the subjectivity.

I’m not sure I understand what you are trying to say here but the rewarding aspect of these materials are hurt by the fact that people have a bunch of these, without jumping through hoops, and nothing to do with it (for the most part).

You might want to start from the beginning of the convo where this orignated. It can be kinda hard to understand the just of it from midst of it all.

I have been keeping up. I’m confused because what I think you said contradicts yourself and just want to make sure I’m not misinterpreting.

How does it contradict?

Because Anet doesn’t make you jump through hoops to get the materials, they flood you with them. Unless of course you only play one aspect of the game in which case you only get the one resources that is rewarded from it. And you said “So can you see how that whole deal defeats trying to make a reward rewarding?” even though you also said earlier that increasing the drop rate of items would be better.

mtpelion.4562:

Essence Snow.3194:

Those 3 sellable items costs exceed thier sellable values.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/recipe/7839

13s15c profit.

Need to readdress this:

On the item page of Spidy and on the tp these buy 18s 46c and sell 24s 24c . On the crafting page of Spidy it says they costs 89s 20c to craft and sell for 1g 21s 25s.

What’s going on there? The two do not match.

Afaik crafting these to sell would result in a net lost of 64s 96c.

Essence Snow.3194:

In an effort to make the ascended mats more rewarding They make you jump through hoops and make it subject to multiple markets at the same time. The rewarding aspect of it all is effected by the process and the subjectivity.

Well, you were the one that suggested to give out more account bound rewards:

Essence Snow.3194:

I don’t really mind the reduced coin. What I’d like to see however are increased item drops that are not directly converted to coin. This would reduce coinage further and add a sense of reward which coin simply cannot.

But you fail to make a suggestion, how to do it. In general, concerning AB asc mats, they were not introduced as a reward but more as a “content or time gate” to crafting ascended gear.

I am not a regular pvp player, so i cant tell you how rewards have been in there and how much you can expect to get with the new Rewards System that will be introduced but i watched the Ready Up about it and from my point of view it looks very promising. I have no idea yet, how those rewards will scale compared to pve rewards but i think its a good start. There will be a mix of account bound and regular items as rewards, while playing your favourite playstyle (as pvper). If its successful, i can see them translating it into wvw and maybe pve, in order for you to play for favourite playstyle and still get rewards (even at a slower pace) that are accociated with different kinds of gameplay. From what i gathered, it will still be faster to obtain dungeon armor skins by farming the dungeon but pvper can still earn them over time by just playing pvp.
I think thats a good step in the right direction by Anet and also took alot of work.

As i said, i dont play PvP much but i think reworking their rewards was way overdue, i dont feel bad that they were first to get attention in those regards. But it makes me feel optimistic that wvw will be next in line to get a rewards system like that.

And i wouldnt be surprised, if they will scratch Badges of Honor completely in the process (just like glory). Just because some people amassed way too much of them until now due to a lack of spending incentive.

Essence Snow.3194:

mtpelion.4562:

Essence Snow.3194:

Those 3 sellable items costs exceed thier sellable values.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/recipe/7839

13s15c profit.

Need to readdress this:

On the item page of Spidy and on the tp these buy 18s 46c and sell 24s 24c . On the crafting page of Spidy it says they costs 89s 20c to craft and sell for 1g 21s 25s.

What’s going on there? The two do not match.

Afaik crafting these to sell would result in a net lost of 64s 96c.

You always craft 5 per recipe, while the price on spidy relates to 1 each, and the recipe to craft (and sell) 5 each.

Schizo.1375:

Because Anet doesn’t make you jump through hoops to get the materials, they flood you with them. Unless of course you only play one aspect of the game in which case you only get the one resources that is rewarded from it. And you said “So can you see how that whole deal defeats trying to make a reward rewarding?” even though you also said earlier that increasing the drop rate of items would be better.

Evidently you missed part of the convo (why I asked 1st).

The added recipes in an attempt to make the flood of mats (which weren’t very rewarding more rewarding). The recipes for the most part require more costs then they produce….ie they result in loses (not rewarding). For those that do offer an increased reward one is subject to multiple markets……recipe market, toxic spore market, and dust market and craft when markets permit. (if they even do)

Essence Snow.3194:

Schizo.1375:

Because Anet doesn’t make you jump through hoops to get the materials, they flood you with them. Unless of course you only play one aspect of the game in which case you only get the one resources that is rewarded from it. And you said “So can you see how that whole deal defeats trying to make a reward rewarding?” even though you also said earlier that increasing the drop rate of items would be better.

Evidently you missed part of the convo (why I asked 1st).

The added recipes in an attempt to make the flood of mats (which weren’t very rewarding more rewarding). The recipes for the most part require more costs then they produce….ie they result in loses (not rewarding). For those that do offer an increased reward one is subject to multiple markets……recipe market, toxic spore market, and dust market and craft when markets permit. (if they even do)

I’ve looked over the information provided and I see plenty of opportunities to make money so I’m not sure how you are judging some to be a loss.

Essence Snow.3194:

Schizo.1375:

Because Anet doesn’t make you jump through hoops to get the materials, they flood you with them. Unless of course you only play one aspect of the game in which case you only get the one resources that is rewarded from it. And you said “So can you see how that whole deal defeats trying to make a reward rewarding?” even though you also said earlier that increasing the drop rate of items would be better.

Evidently you missed part of the convo (why I asked 1st).

The added recipes in an attempt to make the flood of mats (which weren’t very rewarding more rewarding). The recipes for the most part require more costs then they produce….ie they result in loses (not rewarding). For those that do offer an increased reward one is subject to multiple markets……recipe market, toxic spore market, and dust market and craft when markets permit. (if they even do)

As Schizo already mentioned, you seem to misinterpret something. Those recipes usually yield profits even though its only 10-30 copper. But if Bloodstone Dust was tradeable on the tp, i would expect it to sit a vendor value. I also mentioned before that those mats werent introduced as a reward but as a means of gating the acquisition of ascended gear.
If you want to discuss account bound rewards, i think those 3 arent good examples.
Still waiting on suggestions from you.

Yeah and before my comment about making money gets misconstrued I would just like to clarify that I did not mean this is a valid way to make money on a regular basis. What I meant was that it is a way to make money as an alternative to deleting stacks to save space as many people do. Which I’m sure is what Anet meant to do with these recipes. An alternative that does not result in the mass sale of time-gated materials.

Sry Im late in replying (power company decided to do some road work and lost power for while)

Yes, I missed the 5 from one craft admittedly. The point still remains that it was not an effective way to address the unrewarding nature of the reward mention(btw I was not the one that brought those up specifically).

The only reason I can conclude some may not want increase item rewards is because the increased supply would chance lowering margins?

Essence Snow.3194:

The only reason I can conclude some may not want increase item rewards is because the increased supply would chance lowering margins?

increasing item rewards would just make the rewards useless and valueless and we would be right back here having the same conversation.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Essence Snow.3194:

The only reason I can conclude some may not want increase item rewards is because the increased supply would chance lowering margins?

increasing item rewards would just make the rewards useless and valueless and we would be right back here having the same conversation.

Only when you only consider extremes. Like I have said in the past it is a balancing act.

Essence Snow.3194:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Essence Snow.3194:

The only reason I can conclude some may not want increase item rewards is because the increased supply would chance lowering margins?

increasing item rewards would just make the rewards useless and valueless and we would be right back here having the same conversation.

Only when you only consider extremes. Like I have said in the past it is a balancing act.

But how could we balance it? Because the way we see it is that the supply and value are in direct proportion to each other. For every degree the supply increases, the value will in equal degree decrease. There isn’t anyway that you can increase the supply and maintain the same value.

Never said we had to retain current values.

I think you’re stuck on the only reward being the coin, not the reward of getting the drop.

Essence Snow.3194:

Never said we had to retain current values.

I think you’re stuck on the only reward being the coin, not the reward of getting the drop.

Its the same thing. Coin is just a number that equates to the value of the item that dropped. For instance Bolt of Damask is a valuable item. Not because it costs a lot but because it uses a lot of silk and silk doesn’t drop easily. But when the silk drop rate increased with the recent LS Bolt of Damask wasn’t as valuable anymore because everyone could make it and everyone was able to work on building up their ascended armor. The only reason it retained any value at all was because it was still time-gated.

Well we have figured out why you have the stance you have. You do not see the reward aspect of getting something yourself. Anywho this has derailed far enough to where its pointless in cont.