Guild Wars 2

After some debate about TP taxes, it just dawned on me that this game is missing a Gold Sink. Right now, it’s too easy to make money from doing Champ Train and other “loot stick” events in Orr. The rate of income that people generate from constant farming for loot bags could lead to inflation if not kept in check. There needs to be some balance in the rewards, as people doing Champ Trains in Orr make more money per hour than a new player starting in Queensdale or Plains of Ashford.

With inflation in mind, how does a 15% tax on all coin and item drops sound as a new Gold Sink? Couple this with the upcoming Champ Bag changes, and we have a good way to keep inflation down, and the value of the in game currency steady.

How does this work?

As you open loot bags across Tyria, or with the completion of events for rewards, a 15% tax could be levied on all coinage earned. The calculations would be pretty straight forward. But what of item drops? Well, here’s a crazy idea that could be implemented. What we could do is take the average value of any particular item found on the Trading Post in the last 24 hours, and a 15% tax based on that value could be deducted from your bank when you opt to collect on the item. If you’re unable to pay the tax, you can’t pick up the item from the bag/chest.

Why is this a good idea?

As time goes on, players in GW2 gain more and more wealth. With more wealth gained, the value of the in game currency starts to fall. With inflation, it takes more and more money in order to procure the basic goods, or even when buying items on the TP. Remember when the Precursor Dusk was 25 Gold? Now it’s 1,000 Gold. That’s inflation for you. Supply and Demand is a byproduct of people with more money to spend. But what if we’re able to curb the rate of inflation with more Gold Sinks? With more money taken out of the economy, the rate of inflation is slowed, thus making purchases of higher end goods more reasonable. As a side effect, prices of luxury items would decline as well. Because less people could afford to pay those prices, values of high end items like Precursors would fall substantially. A new equilibrium will be found, and item values would all remain affordable.

I’ve attached a graph as proof of what happens without Gold Sinks.

Nice try of a troll post penguin.
If you put a gold sink directly under a gold faucet, the gold (or items) will never enter the economy.
They basically already done this to champ bags by nerfing the gold output.
Loot items that are sold on the tp will drain 15% of their gold value form the economy, so thats implemented as well.

But inflation is still creeping up. By putting gates on the faucets in game, you slow the pace of inflation. And one of the results for less wealth generated is less overall wealth game wide. This would cause a recession, and lower the cost of goods.

And note – not everyone uses the Trading Post, so it’s not like they’ll be hit with a 15% tax twice.

or I don’t know… sell some item people will buy at fix price at merchant like the other 1000 mmorpg is doing.

Things like thermocatalytic reagent, which I’m sure Anet thought about already. Just have to decide if there’s a need to add more.

laokoko.7403:

or I don’t know… sell some item people will buy at fix price at merchant like the other 1000 mmorpg is doing.

Things like thermocatalytic reagent, which I’m sure Anet thought about already. Just have to decide if there’s a need to add more.

With this idea, it doesn’t touch the merchant values of the items in question, so people can sell all their goods for set prices to NPCs.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

laokoko.7403:

or I don’t know… sell some item people will buy at fix price at merchant like the other 1000 mmorpg is doing.

Things like thermocatalytic reagent, which I’m sure Anet thought about already. Just have to decide if there’s a need to add more.

With this idea, it doesn’t touch the merchant values of the items in question, so people can sell all their goods for set prices to NPCs.

I played another game which just set most item at fix price, actually a nexon game. So that’ll cap the price. People who want to sell their item just have to sell at lower price. Since the demand far out grow the supply, there’s not a problem with too many stacks of material.

I’m pretty sure most people are quite poor in this game. I honestly believe the few that are too rich is the reason why a few of the limited or prestige item are so expensive. Unfortunately Anet is trying to sell gem, so obviously they want some people to be poor. Which I understand. I Just dont’ understand why the game designed to have so much flipping in the trading post.

I’m not sure if you are actually serious or trying to troll. If you are serious, cutting down dungeon gold reward might be a good idea, and reward them something else instead, like crafting material etc.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

But inflation is still creeping up. By putting gates on the faucets in game, you slow the pace of inflation. And one of the results for less wealth generated is less overall wealth game wide. This would cause a recession, and lower the cost of goods.

And note – not everyone uses the Trading Post, so it’s not like they’ll be hit with a 15% tax twice.

But they just did that by lowering the gold output of champ bags. Just because they didnt call it a tax, doesnt mean that it doesnt follow the same principal.

Wouldn’t simply reducing the coin reward by 15% be the same thing?

And yes Dusk was 25g, mayby on day one of the exchange opening. But that was when there wasn’t a lot of coin in the world yet and nobody had an idea what to price it at. After a week and a half it broke 100g permanently; 200g within the first month; 350g two weeks after that. So 1400% inflation in the first 6 weeks and under 300% over the next 16 1/2 months. You could have picked orichalcum ore that only went from 3s a week after launch to 5s and change now which shows a much lower inflation rate for a rare-ish base material.

Yes I know the whole point of this is satire or the “TP Players are Ebil and need to be punished” movement with a similar style argument using cherry picked examples.

Come on now you’re just teasing the minotaur now with waving that red flag about.

Fear not penguin, I am happy to announce my gold sink services. If you feel at any given time to have an abundant amount of skins, dyes or high-end loot such as precursors, just send them to me! They will be properly taken over and your issues with abundant gold will be solved. But the BEST aspect of this service is, ITS COMPLETELY FREE! whaaaaat? Yes folks, you heard me right, for free.

Be sure to tell your friends about me!

I’m not sure if there are even more money in the circulation. I thought overall just less people farm material nowadays that’s why it keep going up. And precursor price does have some relation with material price.

And overall, I think its just a by-product of the M society. The few that are rich either because they farm all day, sell arah, or good at flipping, or buy gem that keep bumping the price up.

I find really interesting how TP players ignores even the most basic mechanics of this game.

Ever heard of diminishing returns?
Daily limited rewards?
Nerfs?

Oh i bet no because its all TP would need but doesn t have…also the reason why every player putting a feet out of the TP complains about the lack of balance in rewards…

P.S. also players drop doesn t come from your personal gold reserve.
TP is the only free pvp we have in this game.

laokoko.7403:

And overall, I think its just a by-product of the M society. The few that are rich either because they farm all day, sell arah, or good at flipping, or buy gem that keep bumping the price up.

John Smith.4610:

The prices of high end goods are VERY close, if not exactly the same, to what they would be without any “TP Barons” wanting those items. There’s too much velocity for individual rich people to influence the supply/demand equation all that much, which is the only control they have if they aren’t manipulating prices.

LordByron.8369:

Blah, blah, blub…
TP is the only free pvp we have in this game.

They should make it an Esport.

Oh with such evidence how could i doubt him…he clearly have data he can t show us.

Also OK Lets put dimishing returns in TP rewards also….
And make a limit to daily transaction
Not to mention applying rng to taxes

Lets balance TP like PVE

LordByron.8369:

Oh with such evidence how could i doubt him…he clearly have data he can t show us.

Yes, he has.

Are you gonna link the spidy page for silk scraps soon to prove he is wrong?

I was thinking the other day that a levy on all player loot should go into a WvW fund for upgrades. WvW gives bonuses to PvE, so PvE should give back. A 40% levy would be nice, and WvW is a massive gold sink when things start flipping.

Many players plays pve to pay for www already ..
And wanze your attempts at provoking are quite futile ….

As much as I love satire do we really need more angry discussions?

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

And overall, I think its just a by-product of the M society. The few that are rich either because they farm all day, sell arah, or good at flipping, or buy gem that keep bumping the price up.

John Smith.4610:

The prices of high end goods are VERY close, if not exactly the same, to what they would be without any “TP Barons” wanting those items. There’s too much velocity for individual rich people to influence the supply/demand equation all that much, which is the only control they have if they aren’t manipulating prices.

I dont’ mean the few as in the top 1% flipping, I mean the top 10-20% might be responsible for the ever increase price in luxury items. And I don’t necessary mean TP Barons.

TitaniumDog.3054:

I was thinking the other day that a levy on all player loot should go into a WvW fund for upgrades. WvW gives bonuses to PvE, so PvE should give back. A 40% levy would be nice, and WvW is a massive gold sink when things start flipping.

Love the concept of a stipend/salary or cost offset for WvW soldiers. Completely impractical, but it would be nice to get a mail with 25silver saying “Thanks for the buffs.” -PvE server players

Look, I’m not sure why people are saying this is in any way trolling. I’m trying to find a way to balance the complaints that there’s too much wealth in this game. With the idea of loot tax, this affects all players across the board. It’s a way to control the wealth that the game generates by focusing on the point players receive it. It’s also a good way to keep rare items rare. If you don’t have enough money to pay for the tax on a particular item, you can’t pick it up. Prices would inevitably drop because there’s less total wealth in the world.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Look, I’m not sure why people are saying this is in any way trolling. I’m trying to find a way to balance the complaints that there’s too much wealth in this game. With the idea of loot tax, this affects all players across the board. It’s a way to control the wealth that the game generates by focusing on the point players receive it. It’s also a good way to keep rare items rare. If you don’t have enough money to pay for the tax on a particular item, you can’t pick it up. Prices would inevitably drop because there’s less total wealth in the world.

I dont think there are complaints that there is too much wealth in the game, its the perceived wealth disparity people seem to have a problem with.
Its also not very constructive to counter complaints with complaints.

This is the thing. People “aren’t rich”. Try make a post asking how much people have, and they will generally tell you they dont’ have much. There actually was several post about it, most people actually say they really dont’ have much money. While You also get a bunch of people who are extremely wealthy. Basically you have people extremely rich or extremely poor.

Most people don’t play this game just to farm, or wear a legendary.

People are complaining because they are poor while other people are rich. Try to google M society.

Wanze.8410:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Look, I’m not sure why people are saying this is in any way trolling. I’m trying to find a way to balance the complaints that there’s too much wealth in this game. With the idea of loot tax, this affects all players across the board. It’s a way to control the wealth that the game generates by focusing on the point players receive it. It’s also a good way to keep rare items rare. If you don’t have enough money to pay for the tax on a particular item, you can’t pick it up. Prices would inevitably drop because there’s less total wealth in the world.

I dont think there are complaints that there is too much wealth in the game, its the perceived wealth disparity people seem to have a problem with.
Its also not very constructive to counter complaints with complaints.

It’s not so much an answer to a complaint with a complaint. It’s merely an observation that with a correctly placed tax, it could help to combat long term imbalances with wealth.

Rich players can’t sell items for high prices if no one buys them. Same with low end mats. Supply and Demand only works when the demand part can be met by the consumer. If not, then the supply part will increase, thus bringing more prices down.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Wanze.8410:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Look, I’m not sure why people are saying this is in any way trolling. I’m trying to find a way to balance the complaints that there’s too much wealth in this game. With the idea of loot tax, this affects all players across the board. It’s a way to control the wealth that the game generates by focusing on the point players receive it. It’s also a good way to keep rare items rare. If you don’t have enough money to pay for the tax on a particular item, you can’t pick it up. Prices would inevitably drop because there’s less total wealth in the world.

I dont think there are complaints that there is too much wealth in the game, its the perceived wealth disparity people seem to have a problem with.
Its also not very constructive to counter complaints with complaints.

It’s not so much an answer to a complaint with a complaint. It’s merely an observation that with a correctly placed tax, it could help to combat long term imbalances with wealth.

Rich players can’t sell items for high prices if no one buys them. Same with low end mats. Supply and Demand only works when the demand part can be met by the consumer. If not, then the supply part will increase, thus bringing more prices down.

Lower prices are relative, if there is less gold coming into the game.

Wanze.8410:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Wanze.8410:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Look, I’m not sure why people are saying this is in any way trolling. I’m trying to find a way to balance the complaints that there’s too much wealth in this game. With the idea of loot tax, this affects all players across the board. It’s a way to control the wealth that the game generates by focusing on the point players receive it. It’s also a good way to keep rare items rare. If you don’t have enough money to pay for the tax on a particular item, you can’t pick it up. Prices would inevitably drop because there’s less total wealth in the world.

I dont think there are complaints that there is too much wealth in the game, its the perceived wealth disparity people seem to have a problem with.
Its also not very constructive to counter complaints with complaints.

It’s not so much an answer to a complaint with a complaint. It’s merely an observation that with a correctly placed tax, it could help to combat long term imbalances with wealth.

Rich players can’t sell items for high prices if no one buys them. Same with low end mats. Supply and Demand only works when the demand part can be met by the consumer. If not, then the supply part will increase, thus bringing more prices down.

Lower prices are relative, if there is less gold coming into the game.

Which is why a loot tax would work, since it targets both the coin and items generated by faucets.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Rich players can’t sell items for high prices if no one buys them. Same with low end mats. Supply and Demand only works when the demand part can be met by the consumer. If not, then the supply part will increase, thus bringing more prices down.

This is the thing you don’t understand. I can buy a precursor every 10 days just because all I do is farming all day. One of my guildmate can buy a precursor every couple weeks playing 3 hours a day, just because he can solo arah path 3 in 30 minutes. So does the flippers who can probably buy a precursor just because all he does is make a video about superior sigil of water.

But most people are poor either because they aren’t playing a specific way, or they just don’t play that enough. That dont’ mean people are rich. I’m not sure if there is even more gold in circulation.

Take for example. People in my country are “poor”. Our wage is 3$ US an hour. But the price of house is so expensive it’ll take a person working 50 years not spending any money to afford one.

The reason is the extreme wealthy people buying house, and we have “very low” tax on holding real estate. So in practical you really need to tax the “rich people only who hoard all the house”. That is not saying I suggest that happen in GW2.

And really, more gold in circulation dont’ even mean inflation, if there is more goods in circulation. Not to mention you don’t even have proof the gold sink GW2 have isn’t enough. Even though there is very few gold sink, there is also very few ways to generate pure gold. And they already are nerfing the gold from events and bags.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Look, I’m not sure why people are saying this is in any way trolling. I’m trying to find a way to balance the complaints that there’s too much wealth in this game. With the idea of loot tax, this affects all players across the board. It’s a way to control the wealth that the game generates by focusing on the point players receive it. It’s also a good way to keep rare items rare. If you don’t have enough money to pay for the tax on a particular item, you can’t pick it up. Prices would inevitably drop because there’s less total wealth in the world.

I will happily accept an additional 15% tax on everything that comes into my characters pocket if you accept an additional 15% tax on everything that comes into your characters pocket.

As in you collect gold and POOF, 15% disappears.

laokoko.7403:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Rich players can’t sell items for high prices if no one buys them. Same with low end mats. Supply and Demand only works when the demand part can be met by the consumer. If not, then the supply part will increase, thus bringing more prices down.

This is the thing you don’t understand. I can buy a precursor every 10 days just because all I do is farming all day. One of my guildmate can buy a precursor every couple weeks playing 3 hours a day, just because he can solo arah path 3 in 30 minutes. So does the flippers who can probably buy a precursor just because all he does is make a video about superior sigil of water.

But most people are poor either because they aren’t playing a specific way, or they just don’t play that enough. That dont’ mean people are rich. I’m not sure if there is even more gold in circulation.

Take for example. People in my country are “poor”. Our wage is 3$ US an hour. But the price of house is so expensive it’ll take a person working 50 years not spending any money to afford one.

The reason is the extreme wealthy people buying house, and we have “very low” tax on holding real estate. So in practical you really need to tax the “rich people only who hoard all the house”. That is not saying I suggest that happen in GW2.

In this situation, taxing the rich is the correct thing to do, because the government created such imbalances. However, in GW2, this isn’t about rich people not paying enough taxes. The issue here is that there might be too much wealth circulating in the economy.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

laokoko.7403:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Rich players can’t sell items for high prices if no one buys them. Same with low end mats. Supply and Demand only works when the demand part can be met by the consumer. If not, then the supply part will increase, thus bringing more prices down.

This is the thing you don’t understand. I can buy a precursor every 10 days just because all I do is farming all day. One of my guildmate can buy a precursor every couple weeks playing 3 hours a day, just because he can solo arah path 3 in 30 minutes. So does the flippers who can probably buy a precursor just because all he does is make a video about superior sigil of water.

But most people are poor either because they aren’t playing a specific way, or they just don’t play that enough. That dont’ mean people are rich. I’m not sure if there is even more gold in circulation.

Take for example. People in my country are “poor”. Our wage is 3$ US an hour. But the price of house is so expensive it’ll take a person working 50 years not spending any money to afford one.

The reason is the extreme wealthy people buying house, and we have “very low” tax on holding real estate. So in practical you really need to tax the “rich people only who hoard all the house”. That is not saying I suggest that happen in GW2.

In this situation, taxing the rich is the correct thing to do, because the government created such imbalances. However, in GW2, this isn’t about rich people not paying enough taxes. The issue here is that there might be too much wealth circulating in the economy.

Too much wealth would cause hyperinflation, which is bad for the economy.
But GW2 doesnt have hyperinflation, only a little inflation, which is no problem at all.

Wanze.8410:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

laokoko.7403:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Rich players can’t sell items for high prices if no one buys them. Same with low end mats. Supply and Demand only works when the demand part can be met by the consumer. If not, then the supply part will increase, thus bringing more prices down.

This is the thing you don’t understand. I can buy a precursor every 10 days just because all I do is farming all day. One of my guildmate can buy a precursor every couple weeks playing 3 hours a day, just because he can solo arah path 3 in 30 minutes. So does the flippers who can probably buy a precursor just because all he does is make a video about superior sigil of water.

But most people are poor either because they aren’t playing a specific way, or they just don’t play that enough. That dont’ mean people are rich. I’m not sure if there is even more gold in circulation.

Take for example. People in my country are “poor”. Our wage is 3$ US an hour. But the price of house is so expensive it’ll take a person working 50 years not spending any money to afford one.

The reason is the extreme wealthy people buying house, and we have “very low” tax on holding real estate. So in practical you really need to tax the “rich people only who hoard all the house”. That is not saying I suggest that happen in GW2.

In this situation, taxing the rich is the correct thing to do, because the government created such imbalances. However, in GW2, this isn’t about rich people not paying enough taxes. The issue here is that there might be too much wealth circulating in the economy.

Too much wealth would cause hyperinflation, which is bad for the economy.
But GW2 doesnt have hyperinflation, only a little inflation, which is no problem at all.

And a loot tax would be a preemptive strike against hyperinflation. That was part of the initial idea for this thread.

What you suggest is not a gold sink, it is a income nerf – a minor technicality.
Inflation is not why you have to pay 1000g for your Dust, supply and demand is.
“inflation” is the raise in price of /all/ items, not just luxury items.
Champ trains aren’t even in the top-5 non-TP ways to make gold in-game. To list a few better ways: daily dungeon runs (there are about 10 paths that give more gold/hour than champ train), guild commendations, world bosses & guesting. champ train is just the easiest.
If you want cheaper Dusts, just go make them, which will increase supply and decrease their price.

Mystic.5934:

What you suggest is not a gold sink, it is a income nerf – a minor technicality.
Inflation is not why you have to pay 1000g for your Dust, supply and demand is.
“inflation” is the raise in price of /all/ items, not just luxury items.
Champ trains aren’t even in the top-5 non-TP ways to make gold in-game. To list a few better ways: daily dungeon runs (there are about 10 paths that give more gold/hour than champ train), guild commendations, world bosses & guesting. champ train is just the easiest.
If you want cheaper Dusts, just go make them, which will increase supply and decrease their price.

Champ Trains drop Champ Chests, which have a small chance to drop a Precursor. If you farm a stack of these per day, that’s 250 chances at a Precursor. That doesn’t include any Rares or Exotics that you also could have gotten.