Guild Wars 2

I’ve always had a bad taste for P2W games, so it’s odd that I’m having a change of heart these days. But now that I think about it, perhaps GW2 should start moving baby steps into the realm of P2W items in the Gem Store.

Currently, we have convenience items that give boosts to characters. Increased running/swimming speed, instant teleport to airship or VIP areas, etc. But now, I’m thinking us paying players (those who purchase Gems) should get access to exclusive items or bonuses.

The current system is a good one, as it allows players who don’t purchase Gems to have access to the Gem Store. Not many MMOs out there would go out of their way to allow players to get free microtransaction items. This is why Anet is such a wonderful company. But going a step further, it’s possible to have some items that are exclusive or give a bigger statistical advantage for players who do spend money on microtransactions. Doing something like this would be an incentive to spend even more on the game. Something like when we got the Mini Mr. Sparkles for buying 4k Gems. This should happen more often, or even expanded in scale of bonuses. An idea would be like, 1 Legendary token for each 4k Gems purchased. 10 tokens = free Legendary.

What do you, my fellow BLTC forum members, think about this idea? I know Evon would approve.

Edit – Topic amended to reflect the purpose of this discussion, which is to see if it’s a good idea for Anet to include more incentives to drive Gem sales.

First of all, i dont think what you are describing is P2W. I have no problem with people who buy gems with money to get a goodie once in a while like the Mr Sparkles or some other (even exclusive) convenience items or weapon skins for example.
Those give aways should be account bound though and not tradeable on the tp, so no to legendary tokens.

You’re right Wanze. Perhaps I should amend my suggestion to include damage boosting Sigils that are exclusive to paying players? Something like “free +20% damage Sigil for each 4k Gems purchased”? Or exclusive Legendary weapons with higher base damage output for those who spend $1,000 or more.

Edit – Just an idea, mind you. I’m thinking this is a great way to increase revenue streams for NCSoft.

Edit 2 – The main idea here is to grant exclusiveness to items that can’t be gotten from Gems. Sorta like a Tier 2 Gem currency, with T1 being the free Gems that players can exchange with their Gold.

As a player who buys a lot of gems, getting more stuff would be nice. Though stat bonuses are a bad idea in the current game. If they balanced around the p2w stat boosts for new content, you would get less people doing (or able to do) said content, which would make getting rewards for content even harder for the paying players due to the rng system.

Take for example any of the new stuff in the LS 2. If those reward required the p2w stats to obtain them, they would be super expensive similar to the BL weapons as the only source comes from the gem based BL keys. Yes i know you can farm for keys but my point is that rarity (and thus cost/expense) due to the artificial reduction of the player base is not a good way to go about p2w in a game with rng based reward.

If they do not make new content based on the new stat boosts, then what is the point, as almost all content in the game is already pretty easily beaten with just exotics. I would rather get a legendary/unique skin or even convenience items rather than stat boosts if this was the case.

If they ever do such a thing, the entire rng reward structure would have to be revamped.

Special stuff to people who just buy gems, sure, statistical advantages, no. I don’t think I have to go through all the reasoning behind people being against P2W.

If they need the money, make the game subscription based. sure I don’t like subscription based (edit: and I probably wouldn’t be able to play the game any longer, what with my lack of income), but it’s still reasonable if they need money. there’s no excuse for making a game P2W, in my opinion.

I think pay 2 win is an excellent idea and highly beneficial for NCsoft.

Here’s why.

Once they completely drive players away, they can then close down Anet to reduce resources spent on two titles outright competing against each other, GW2 and Wildstar. Once that happens they can essentially focus their resources on one studio. Sure a couple of people may lose their jobs but in a business saturated with people, its actually quite negligible for really only a small amount of people to lose their passion source of income etc. Guildwars 2 and Guildwars gets moved to Carbine Studios and handed to maybe 3 people to maintain and take care of and we’ve essentially cut the operating expenses to about half.

Excellent.

Can’t really tell if you’re serious or sarcastic with this one, Smooth. Well done.

If serious though… I don’t mind giving out cosmetic bonuses for people who buy gems with cash, similar to how we got Mr Sparkles as a bonus for buying 4k gems in December, AS LONG as the items we get aren’t completely exclusive. (That is, you could also obtain Mr Sparkles by buying it from a player who got it, or earning it in-game by doing PvP, a hard JP etc.) Another idea might be giving out a free Black Lion weapon ticket if you purchase 4000 gems in a month (max 1 per month).

I am dead set against giving statistical bonuses like a +20% damage sigil as a result of gem purchases, whether with cash or gold.

Please be joking. Thats a horrible idea. Then again it would devalue Legendary Weapons even more then they are. (And that means I dont have to have to get one.)

Making Gw2 p2w would be an awful idea. I have seen p2w transitions kill games. It would draw in even more elitist and turn the community into a toxic sewer where the only players left are the ones who will prevent the game from growing.

This idea is mainly one to reward players who buy Gems. These paying players are what keep the game healthy, in terms of revenue.

If Anet were to introduce P2W items into the game, they should NOT balance content around such items with statistical advantages. The current game is well balanced as is. Stat boosts would simply make PvE slightly easier. Here’s a list of mechanics that could be implemented with P2W:

1) WvW and SPvP are not affected by P2W items, like damage boosting sigils. These items would be solely for PvE.
2) All P2W items are Account Bound, and only granted once, like a permanent mining pick.
3) P2W stat bonuses shouldn’t go over a certain threshold. Maybe lower a P2W sigil to +15% damage or something. You don’t want to give away items that are too godly, or you start to ruin game play values with too much “easy mode”.

Economic Advantages with P2W items

This is the advantages for NCSoft, not the in-game economy. Again, the idea here is to reward players who spend real money on microtransactions. The more they spend, the higher tiered rewards they could get. Getting bonus items like a Mini Mr. Sparkles is nice, but getting something that actually gives advantages in the game leads to more incentive to spend. This, in addition to awesome weapon/armor skins in the Gem Store, are nearly guaranteed to generate more Gem purchasing activity. Players who were on the fence previously on whether or not to buy that Assassin Armor skin, will now be more inclined to break out their credit cards. It might even convince players who never wanted to buy Gems, to reconsider.

I will ask for anet to refund my gw2 if they go pay to win.

I dont’ think it is too bad of an idea to reward paying players more.

But I’m not sure why reward people a free legendary for 400$ spent, consider you already need to spend 400$ to buy a legendary now.

Regardless of Smooth’s particular suggestions, the original post has an interesting idea: offer extras to people who buy gems with real world money. That needn’t be remotely pay-to-win (or it could be).

I like the idea of offering exclusive items with no gameplay value, such as the Mini Mr Sparkles: you buy enough gems during a certain period and you get the item for free.

This encourages people to spend cash, without creating a huge disparity among the players who rarely or never spend coin.

I would be likely to stop playing if the gem shop offered items that seem likely to be required for the meta, e.g. more combat boosters or harvesting bonuses. The gem shop started as mostly cosmetics and I think that’s a good place for it.

I am okay if there are goodies for buying gem with credit card like Mr. sparkles.

But stat and gear advantage is NO. Cash should never be a shortcut to more powerful in GW2. What about more cosmetic items like, a new weapon skin line in game you can gain through playing the contents but you can gain a free skin of your choice with different effect for every 4000 gem purchase.

I agree buying gem with cash should have some sort of unique cosmetic item for free.

see problem here is, nothing really special about paying with cash. anet makes more money when people pay with gold because items created through gem->gold->gem->store item cost more money for the same items.

Only insofar as more people buying gems with gold drives up the exchange rate, which then makes it more appealing for people like me to buy gems with cash and sell them to you guys. In that sense, it may increase the amount of people buying gems with cash, but it’s STILL the people paying cash that are actually paying ANet’s wages and expenses. The people buying gems with gold are still not contributing anything extra to ANet’s coffers.

On an unrelated note, the exchange rate hit 100 gems for 9.6 gold yesterday. Sooooo close! That Emperor title is almost within reach now!

Zaxares.5419:

Only insofar as more people buying gems with gold drives up the exchange rate, which then makes it more appealing for people like me to buy gems with cash and sell them to you guys. In that sense, it may increase the amount of people buying gems with cash, but it’s STILL the people paying cash that are actually paying ANet’s wages and expenses. The people buying gems with gold are still not contributing anything extra to ANet’s coffers.

On an unrelated note, the exchange rate hit 100 gems for 9.6 gold yesterday. Sooooo close! That Emperor title is almost within reach now!

ehh i could explain it, but i did that for pages the other day. I ll just say it really isnt in anets best interest to over incentivize direct gem buying, it servers a purpose, but they profit the most when the whole circle is going on, and they are selling the most items by any means.
essentially increasing the overall demand for gems is more important than increasing the demand for gems bought directly from anet.

if you want an explanation pm me, if think im crazy, ignore me.

Well, I do agree that it isn’t in their best interest to over-incentivize gem sales too, but that’s mainly because it creates a negative impression among players that the company is “pushing microtransations”, which tends to drive players away. (Case in point, there were a number of people upset by the whole “did you know you can buy gold with gems?” messages in Gnashblade’s posts in recent weeks. They saw it as ANet trying to lean on them to buy gems with cash.)

Again, I do get what you’re saying. In order to get people to buy gems with cash, demand for gems needs to be high in the first place. But still, the ratio of players who are actually WILLING to pay cash for gems is quite small, as evidenced by the ever-increasing price of gold → gems.

What Smooth is proposing is basically ANet giving further incentive to players to start buying gems with cash, which would also ease the exchange rate and actually make life easier for those who buy gems with gold. (And I’m actually arguing against giving these players completely exclusive items that can’t be acquired anywhere else. I feel that would do more harm than good.)

Note I firmly believe that only a small proportion of players who currently buy gems with gold could EVER be convinced to start buying them with cash. More than likely, if the exchange rate got too intolerable, the majority of these players would either stop buying gem store items altogether, or simply jump ship and go to a different game.

If this happens, i’ll no longer support gw2. P2W is not what i signed up for. Smooth Penguin there is a billion P2W games, if thats how you want your game to be, then you have many options. You can even play Chinese gw2, i think it’s what you’re looking for.

@Smooth Penguin

Sometimes you seem like the biggest troll on these forums, but let’s assume you’re being genuine since you seem to alternate between the two poles with abandon and I’d hate to label this flight of fancy incorrectly.

The gemstore is indeed broken, things listed there are far too superflouos and at the same time pricey. Who in their right mind would pay $12 for a minipet? How many would really pay $10 for an instrument, there would be some sure- but many?

People end up buying them for sure, but the value compared to how much they are paying is abysmal. But the solution isn’t to destroy the game, because make no mistake- adding stat boosts to the gemstore would destroy the game.

Think about the psyche of the common player, currently getting stomped in WvW tells an individual that their gear is bad and the person that beat them spent more of their life on the game. This is frustrating but it’s acceptable- you get to blame your failure on their lack of life. With cash shop stat boosts, now (with imperfect information) the individual assumes they were beaten because the other person bought their victory. Now they feel cheated, both by their opponent and the game.

People who did open their wallets would also feel cheated, because they’ve been forced to spend money. Currently the gemshop is a ripoff because things are too useless and expensive. What you’re suggesting would push things off the other edge of the cliff.

Instead the gemstore simply needs more convieniance items at lower prices. Swim boosters shouldn’t cost more than a few cents as that’s how much a rational person would pay for them, nothing should be on the gem store just so it can be thrown in to a package or in to a Black Lion chest so ANet can pretend the random junk has value.

Add more bags, 18 times as many slots as they do now. Scale each bag slot to be 20% more expensive than the last. Someone spending thousands of gems on bag slots doesn’t effect other people. Add permanent transmutation stones that unlock specific armors, make them cost 25 gems. Add custom dodge animations that can be purchased for 150 gems.

Add stuff that doesn’t hurt others, but makes things easier or funner for the people purchasing them, and make it so they get multiple things for putting in $10 instead of treating the gemstore like a loyalty tax.

On a slightly related note, when this game came out I was really happy that it was ftp but now I am having second thoughts and wonder if it was p2p, would their customer service be better? Would there be faster bug fixes and more interaction with their customers?

My experience with this f2p model has left a bad taste in my mouth.

So as not to completely hijack this thread, I agree OP, it would be a good idea, but the problems I listed above would not change because of this.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’ve always had a bad taste for P2W games, so it’s odd that I’m having a change of heart these days. But now that I think about it, perhaps GW2 should start moving baby steps into the realm of P2W items in the Gem Store.

Don’t even give them the idea!

Currently, we have convenience items that give boosts to characters. Increased running/swimming speed, instant teleport to airship or VIP areas, etc. But now, I’m thinking us paying players (those who purchase Gems) should get access to exclusive items or bonuses.

Nope. You’re already having an unfair advantage by the ability to get gold for gems.

The current system is a good one, as it allows players who don’t purchase Gems to have access to the Gem Store.

Which gets even harder the more people do it. No thank you.

But going a step further, it’s possible to have some items that are exclusive or give a bigger statistical advantage for players who do spend money on microtransactions.

GW2 not being that extreme P2W (as PWE’s games would be) is one of the reasons why I am playing it.

An idea would be like, 1 Legendary token for each 4k Gems purchased. 10 tokens = free Legendary.

I’d quit GW2 if that happens. If you wish to have that, play on the chinese servers. They have such a feature for their “VIP” milk-cows.

no worries p2w is already in the game just look at the watchwork sprocket mining pickaxe

Absolutely not!

As a paying player, I am very much against adding ‘pay to win’ type items to the store. This game was advertised to not be another p2w game. That only convenience / cosmetic items would be in the store. I honestly think I would stop playing (and I know my husband would) if they started adding some the OPs suggestions (+20% dmg that can only be purchased). I’m sorry but it completely kittenes me off that people feel that they are entitled to somehow being better than everyone else because they can throw money at it. This ruins games for other people that just don’t have that luxury. So no, I absolutely do not agree that these things should be added.

Now, I am not against the random ‘thank you’ gifts for purchasing gems with cash, as we have gotten before. The free kite, the free mini pack, etc. They are nice little tokens of gratitude that show they appreciate our purchases. Nothing game breaking, just cute and cosmetic. That is appreciated and I think that is quite sufficient on the occasions that they opt to do it. I do not expect it all the time, because to do so would make it meaningless.

Just as a rebuttal, no one in this game is being “forced” to buy Gems. We do so on our own free will. The fluff and the convenience items don’t add up to much “advantages” at the moment. The idea is to allow paying players to have some slight advantages over non-paying players. While the non-paying players can enjoy Gem Store goods for free with Gold -> Gems exchanging, paying players provide the actual revenue that continuously funds the game. Offering some slight advantages with exclusive gear could help propel revenue streams with more incentives to spend. Note that I say slight advantages, not god-like overpowered P2W in some other games.

Some ideas for items in only PvE:

• +15% damage sigil
• exclusive rune set with slightly better stats
• exclusive Account Bound weapons with slightly higher base damage and stats
• teleport to friends or guildies consumable
• personal WP node for limited free travel

Now as for SPvP and WvW, I do draw the line with these areas. GW2 should not have PvP P2W. I will agree with everyone here. Players, at that point, may then fall into the trap of “who can spend the most money to win”.

With this idea, I’m hoping to see if we players can find some type of balance with the P2W idea. My view is that you allow only minimal P2W, where there’s a cap on how much additional advantage you can get. This would be slightly better than what you can get in game, for free, and not overpowered to where you can’t win without them. Ultimately, this discussion is to give Anet/NCSoft ideas that could benefit them financially. And I admit, this idea is self serving too, since I’m planning another round of massive Gem purchases for when if Cantha is released.

And you don’t think there would be any issue in pve having something like that +15% dmg sigil?

We already have the speed run crap that devalues anyone and anything that doesn’t fit their model. Must be x class, must have x gear, must have x AP. Now you get to add must have x gemshop item to that list. How does that not make people feel like they have to spend money to be on par in pve.

The trap of “who can spend the most money to win” exists for pve as well, when it comes to such things. Especially when it starts potentially locking people out of content because they don’t have the cookie cutter crap.

Cosmetics in the store are fine. More stats are not. No.More.Power.Creep.Period. We didn’t need it in GW1, we don’t need it here either.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

And you don’t think there would be any issue in pve having something like that +15% dmg sigil?

We already have the speed run crap that devalues anyone and anything that doesn’t fit their model. Must be x class, must have x gear, must have x AP. Now you get to add must have x gemshop item to that list. How does that not make people feel like they have to spend money to be on par in pve.

The trap of “who can spend the most money to win” exists for pve as well, when it comes to such things. Especially when it starts potentially locking people out of content because they don’t have the cookie cutter crap.

Cosmetics in the store are fine. More stats are not. No.More.Power.Creep.Period. We didn’t need it in GW1, we don’t need it here either.

How would you explain the ability for someone to solo Arah? A player with skill is using existing mechanics to win. Speed runs are the same, as a group of players take existing mechanics, and form groups with the sole intent on countering said mechanics. Take Pokemon for example. If you’re facing a Fire based monster, you’d counter it with a Water based one. These Speed Run players are basically doing the same. You’re not Entitled to join private groups if you don’t conform to their standards. If the group says that you’d need to have a +15% sigil, that’s their choice. If you can’t join their group, find another or form your own.

P2W in my suggestion doesn’t mean you can’t succeed without any advantages. It just makes life slightly easier. Do note that just because you have a +15% damage sigil over a +5% one does NOT guarantee a win. If you don’t have the skills to play, even having a double damage sigil can’t save you.

I have no issue with FREE bonus items given occasionally for Gem Purchases (thoise are more of a “loyalty gift”), but the suggestion that there should be some delineation on available items between Gems purchased with real $ compared to gold is NOT something I could support.

Neither would I support Gem purchased items that give statistical game play advantages or are basically required to advance in the game (the TRUE meaning of “Pay 2 Win”). One of the main reasons I play GW2 is that all the Gem store items are fully 100% optional (tho I will agree some items are right on the corner of Convenience Avenue and Must Have Street).

P2W in my suggestion doesn’t mean you can’t succeed without any advantages. It just makes life slightly easier. Do note that just because you have a +15% damage sigil over a +5% one does NOT guarantee a win. If you don’t have the skills to play, even having a double damage sigil can’t save you.

Then you are using P2W incorrectly. The strict definition of the term means you are absolutely required to pay the $ to continue with the game. Basically you can play up to a certain level, but to progress any farther you must purchase some equipment or “pass” to get to (or have any hope of succeeding in) the next tier of the game.

Most of the issues I see on this forum about the “P2W” term is the semantics of exactly what the concept entails. The true meaning has been warped by countless posts and statements using the term incorrectly. I get that if a term gets misused enough, it’s meaning actually changes but I personally still hold to the strict definition as it is (in my mind) a basic line that I will NEVER cross (much like monthly subscription fees).

People gripe the game is already too easy, yet you want to hand them more reasons to complain. You hand them something that gives them more power, they are going to demand something that requires more power to kill. People again demand bigger numbers, then they again demand foes that require the bigger numbers to kill. Its a vicious cycle that you’re looking to perpetuate. While in the meantime, people not buying those dandy bigger stats get left in the dust. It’s basically the same thing as having put ascended stats into the gem store. Look at how much people kittened because it required crafting. It’d have been worse had it required purchasing.

The people soloing Arah are doing it because they are skilled players. Skill > Time. Skill > Stats. There are people that run the dungeons naked. It does not need to be made ‘easier.’ Besides, ascended already did that for us. Considering the game “was” balanced around exotics.

I get what you’re saying, but there’ll be complaints no matter what Anet does. Some players want Ascended armor, but don’t like Crafting. Some players like challenges, and don’t want “easy mode”. And some players want the “easy mode”, and want everything handed to them.

Now to counter the point of Ascended gear already giving advantages. The current stat increases are so minor, and it’s hardly noticeable in game. The same person wearing full Exotic is basically no different than a person wearing full Ascended. The idea with adding some P2W into the game, with limitations, would be like Ascended gear. It would be hardly noticeable in terms of damage output, yet just strong enough to make the player feel special.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What do you, my fellow BLTC forum members, think about this idea? I know Evon would approve.

No. Games turning into P2W is a bad idea, and always will be. If you want to give more benefits to those that buy gems with cash, it’s simple, just like they run sales on the game itself, and promotions on gemstore items, do the same for gems. You buy X gems, you get a random (or choice of) an item that’s worth 1/10th or 1/20th of the gem package you bought.

Alternatively, for gems in general (because if I bought gems with gold, someone had to already buy them with cash), a loyalty program of sorts, like the one that Speedway gas stations use. Every 100 gems you spend you earn X points, and you can redeem A,B,C, etc points for gemstore items.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

3) P2W stat bonuses shouldn’t go over a certain threshold. Maybe lower a P2W sigil to +15% damage or something. You don’t want to give away items that are too godly, or you start to ruin game play values with too much “easy mode”.

he said dont be it too godly and asks for +20% damage sigils wtf
I dont care about them receiving some useless cat in a top hat or whatever but what you mentioned is actually a definition of toxic pay to win crap and if such items ever get introduced I’m quitting and asking for a refund

also your idea obviously would spread more elitism
“You’re not Entitled to join private groups if you don’t conform to their standards. If the group says that you’d need to have a +15% sigil, that’s their choice. If you can’t join their group, find another or form your own.”

you say hardly noticeable in terms of damage output and earlier mention 15-20% sigils? theres something wrong with your perception of maths dude in one hit that difference would be minimal but taking into account hoooooours of farming that few % make a world of difference

Not sure if this is related or not, but if Anet had an optional Monthly Subscription Fee that, for $15 a Month, you got:

• Free access to all VIP Areas
• 500 Gems a month
• 10 Transmute Charges a month
• 1 Black Lion Weapon Ticket a month

I’d totally go for it.

Aidan Savage.2078:

(because if I bought gems with gold, someone had to already buy them with cash)

Actually, the Gems came from Anet when they deposited them into the Gem Exchange, before the game went live.

Wikie.2610:

you say hardly noticeable in terms of damage output and earlier mention 15-20% sigils? theres something wrong with your perception of maths dude in one hit that difference would be minimal but taking into account hoooooours of farming that few % make a world of difference

If it takes 50 normal (skill 1) attacks to kill an enemy, and a +15% damage sigil helps the player kill that same enemy with 43~ normal attacks, it’s hardly noticeable. This is because you’re not just instantly killing them. It still takes time to kill something, but now it’s slightly faster.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just as a rebuttal, no one in this game is being “forced” to buy Gems. We do so on our own free will.

Don’t be disingenuous @Smooth Penguin, you know perfectly well what I and others mean by forced. Attack the core of the argument, not semantics.

Adding a 15% buff would mean every person would have to make a choice, “Do I want to be a regular player, or a scrub?” There is no other way to look at a +15% damage sigil.

The issue is the same with cheats in single player, you can choose not to use them but if you hit a rough patch there is always that thought there in the back of your mind. So then you think “is this rough patch because I’ve suddenly gotten bad at the game, is this poor design, or is this here to encourage people to buy the new cash shop item?”.

Under a system with buyable cheats either content is too easy, in which case the people who buy the sigil feel ripped off, or too hard in which the people who buy the sigil feel forced (yes forced, in the sense that normal people mean the word) to buy it.

Even assuming the advantages don’t work in WvW, PvE would be made either boring to those with the sigils, or frustrating to those without it. Allowing your most loyal customer base to become bored with what is essentially a repetitive set of tasks is a death kneel to the game in the medium run.

And all this misses the fact that it’s entirely unnecessary, you don’t need statistical advantages to be sold in order to provide value to players- just add real and inexpensive convenience items.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Some players want Ascended armor, but don’t like Crafting. Some players like challenges, and don’t want “easy mode”. And some players want the “easy mode”, and want everything handed to them.

You’ve essentially said here: “A suggestions validity is based upon if people complain about it. People complain about everything. Therefore all suggestions are equally valid.”

I hope you see how ridiculous that is.

People complain way too much, but what you’re suggesting is both harmful and unnecessary.

Having played GW1 for many years as well as GW2 the single thing that shone out about is the lack of power creep. Dungeon crawlers, like Torchlight 1&2, Diablo 1-3, Path of Exile, etc etc, are all about power creep. Every new bit of gear pushed your survivability and damage output just that much more.
The appeal of GW2 has been the continuation of the GW1 philosophy of no power creep.

Introducing a gift of a damage boosting sigil will have only 1 consequence. Players will be forced to obtain it. You may use the trite argument that players have the choice of not getting it. But as with any gaming community that sees a damage booster, it becomes a must have.

A little sweetener for a big purchase that has no long term impact on the game is one thing but adding in a stat booster of any kind is an absolute no no.

If you can’t see that your suggestion is detrimental to the health of the game then you need help

The system we have is fine as it is. Drastic changes are unnecessary. This change in particular would be game-killingly destructive.

Monthly promotions for buying gems with real money would be cool, like with the kites. They need to be open, though, and not hidden- you need to know what you’re getting and when you’re eligible for it.

we already have a buyable 5% combat boosters available on the gemstore. Players are not forced to get it, nor are they really using them from what i have seen.

dodgycookies.4562:

we already have a buyable 5% combat boosters available on the gemstore. Players are not forced to get it, nor are they really using them from what i have seen.

Those are only attainable through Black Lion Chests (as far as I know) and only last for an hour. They’re far too sparse and last for too small of a time for them to be a staple of anyone’s build.

What’s being suggested here is a permanent sigil that would increase your damage to at least 3 times that.

No freakin’ way. I play this game specifically because of how it’s structured.

I quit games where I have to pay to be competitive. Every time.

… and I never buy gems with gold, always with real dollars, and more than I’d give them for a subscription.

First to OP: no. The day you can buy superior stats in the gemstone is the day I’ll de-install the game. And I’m one of those that regularly buy gems with real money to buy in the gemstone.

Zaxares.5419:

Again, I do get what you’re saying. In order to get people to buy gems with cash, demand for gems needs to be high in the first place. But still, the ratio of players who are actually WILLING to pay cash for gems is quite small, as evidenced by the ever-increasing price of gold -> gems.

I think you’re putting it wrongly here. The ratio of players who are actually willing to pay cash for GOLD is quite small. And only those will bring the exchange rate down. I often buy gems with cash (I’ve never bought them with gold) but the only time I sold them for cash was when I had less than 100 left after a gem store transaction (most items are a multiple of 100 but some items are not, especially if they’re for sale)

The problem here is that people against this idea is mistakenly assuming that you can only be competitive with such boosts. The current game is easy enough when you have a high skill level. The introduction of bonus boosts as rewards for high levels of cash spending would only make PvE slightly easier. SPvP and WvW would not be affected with such “P2W” gear. But again, this was only one idea in order to give more incentive to Gem buying with real money.

The agreement that most seem to be more open to is non-stat bonus items for Gem purchasing. Free kites, free mini Mr. Sparkles, etc. Perhaps a quarterly promotion could be done that gives tiered bonus rewards for different spending levels. “5 free BL Keys” for $50, “Finisher of your choice” for $100, and “Free mini Llama” for $200. Something like that.

Just for fun … I would pay for:

1. Free WP’s forever
2. Levels
3. BL Tickets

I will pay for convenience. If someone deems that P2W, so be it. I consider farming my sprockets with a pick convenience to simply farming to make gold to buy them.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Zaxares.5419:

Again, I do get what you’re saying. In order to get people to buy gems with cash, demand for gems needs to be high in the first place. But still, the ratio of players who are actually WILLING to pay cash for gems is quite small, as evidenced by the ever-increasing price of gold -> gems.

I think you’re putting it wrongly here. The ratio of players who are actually willing to pay cash for GOLD is quite small. And only those will bring the exchange rate down. I often buy gems with cash (I’ve never bought them with gold) but the only time I sold them for cash was when I had less than 100 left after a gem store transaction (most items are a multiple of 100 but some items are not, especially if they’re for sale)

Ah, good pick up! You are absolutely correct, of course. Right now, I’m in that same category of players; I buy gems with cash when there’s something I want from the gem store, but the exchange rate is not yet favourable enough for me to trade my extra gems for gold. (My trigger is when it reaches 100 gems for 10 gold. I’m waiting patiently for that day to arrive.)

Puddingskins.8412:

Those are only attainable through Black Lion Chests (as far as I know) and only last for an hour. They’re far too sparse and last for too small of a time for them to be a staple of anyone’s build.

What’s being suggested here is a permanent sigil that would increase your damage to at least 3 times that.

They’re much much easier to get now with the dust that compacts other boosters; you can turn any of the other combat enhancing boosters into what you want.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You’re right Wanze. Perhaps I should amend my suggestion to include damage boosting Sigils that are exclusive to paying players? Something like “free +20% damage Sigil for each 4k Gems purchased”? Or exclusive Legendary weapons with higher base damage output for those who spend $1,000 or more.

Edit – Just an idea, mind you. I’m thinking this is a great way to increase revenue streams for NCSoft.

Edit 2 – The main idea here is to grant exclusiveness to items that can’t be gotten from Gems. Sorta like a Tier 2 Gem currency, with T1 being the free Gems that players can exchange with their Gold.

exclusive to paying players…basically everyone in the game gets them? No, as far as P2W, it should never be outside of totally free to play games. i have seen what pay to win does to people who won’t shell out thousands to be the best pixel in the game universe. it literally halts them from doing anything. (Perfect World games are an example of what not to do.)

I would be fine with cosmetic/pet bonuses for buying gems. I buy gems regularly, as long as there’s a set of armor that I like on the gem store that’s reasonably priced. If they start putting p2w items in the store, I will no longer play the game. I’ve played other p2w games, and pvp will just become worse.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You’re right Wanze. Perhaps I should amend my suggestion to include damage boosting Sigils that are exclusive to paying players? Something like “free +20% damage Sigil for each 4k Gems purchased”? Or exclusive Legendary weapons with higher base damage output for those who spend $1,000 or more.

Edit – Just an idea, mind you. I’m thinking this is a great way to increase revenue streams for NCSoft.

Edit 2 – The main idea here is to grant exclusiveness to items that can’t be gotten from Gems. Sorta like a Tier 2 Gem currency, with T1 being the free Gems that players can exchange with their Gold.

If you aim at killing this game with just one single hit, then you’re doing a pretty good job. There are by far not that many players in the game who’re willing to spend money on that game because they need something. There will be even less players who are willing to pay money in order to be effective. At the same time, GW2 would die a fast death, like other games died who were P2W.
This game was and will be B2P and ANet has promised with their manifesto that this game wont turn into P2P or a P2W model. Your suggestion is simply unacceptable, it would completely kill this game. It’s bad enough that there is almost no item that can’t be bought with real money.

Honest question, Smooth, are you just trying to troll people?

The model they set up is a good one. People who just play all the time and never resort to buying gems as they just bring in enough gold for everything they want boost the game by keeping it populated for those more casual people who do drop money on gems as it makes more sense for them. Without the people playing all the time the population dwindles, the game gets less fun, and you have a lot of empty spaces.

Many people make enough cash IRL that it simply makes more sense to buy gems with cash than gold because it’s a better time conversion. Those are the people they’re after.

What you suggest might be a shot in the arm, a nice payday. But you’d see a lot of people un-installing the day this is added. Over the long run I highly doubt it’d be good for the game.

So sure someone may have spent hundreds on the game. Others bought it on sale for $25 and never spent any more money than that. But even the freebies are doing good for the game by simply keeping it populated and keeping the Massive in Massively Multiplayer Online.

The only time this will become a good idea as far as I’m concerned is when ANet/NCSoft decide they don’t care about the game anymore and just want to cash out.

ps. that’s not mentioning the power creep issues that a +15% damage gain would add.

The current model is indeed a good one, but I’m suggesting ways to reward who spend real money on microtransactions. These players are on a higher tier of importance, in terms of revenue, than non-paying players. Creating small incentives can help drive sales of Gems, thus increasing the bottom line of NCSoft. Minor P2W items was just one idea. Others liked the idea of getting some freebies that didn’t affect game play.