Guild Wars 2

Essence Snow.3194:

Obtena.7952:

All content does guarantee a Precursor. You just need to do enough content for that guarantee.

In no possible way is this factual.

you are guaranteed precursor since fractal drops gold too. It’s just how long it take.

Basically Obtena says rewards don’t have to be some what equal. Some content can reward 10-20 times more, or faster.

Obtena.7952:

laokoko.7403:

Sure you can get a legendary weapon from just doing wurm everyday, which probably take a few years, assuming he don’t spend any money. But it just isnt’ effective. If he spent those 200 hours doing something else, he probably have a legendary already.

If ‘effective’ is a factor, you’re just after gold, then you obviously choose the most ‘effective’ reward path; content doesn’t matter to you.

If content does matter to people, they do content they enjoy; then ‘effective’ doesn’t matter. I really don’t get it … people are complaining that they have to do content they like MORE OFTEN to earn the same reward than content they hate LESS OFTEN.

WUT?

ya probably. I suppose if everyone is having fun and being rewarded for that, no one will buy gem.

most games dont’ have problem making fun and rewarding content. I suppose since there is only 1 tier after exotic, it is a bit harder to design the rewards.

Zaxares.5419:

To the people on the other side of the fence: If you play GW2 a lot (and I’m talking like 2000+ hours sunk into the game), odds are good you WILL either get a Precursor, or have the funds to purchase one. But people just need to be aware that the road to getting a Legendary is a lot longer and harder than they might think. (Alternatively, if you want to skip past it altogether, there’s always the gems -> gold + purchase it outright method.)

The devs have always said that Legendaries are long term goals for the most dedicated players. While they probably regret making them sellable, it looks good on paper since most players who obtain a precursor will get a random one, likely one they don’t want or can’t use. They made some missteps before launch with regards to predicting player behavior, and have been trying to correct it ever since. This is one of the largest mistakes, and the hardest to fix because they cannot simply remove them from the market.

Anyway, the shortcut through buying gems or playing the TP to obtain massive amounts of gold is not viable for most players, and was surely never intended as a major path to the goal. Playing different kinds of content and farming mats and/or gold is the intended method, and the time and effort required is intentional. It’s simply players’ own jealousy and impatience that leads them to demand faster results.

Because this is intentional, don’t expect the devs to do anything to speed up the process no matter how much you complain. If they wanted every player to have a Legendary they would hand out precursors at the end of the Personal Story or something.

The OP speaks from the standpoint of the extreme hardcore PvE player. That is but a small microcosm of the player community.

TP is essential for a WvW based player who simply doesn’t want to run around killing all those mobs in all those dungeons just so they can hang out with a group of friends and kill other players. That player wants the convenience of a TP.

The casual PvEr who would not be able to get competitive wants a TP.

Essentially, all but the hardest core PvE player should want a TP. It is an option. You can always go get your gear the “slap a mob” way.

Bombsaway.7198:

The OP speaks from the standpoint of the extreme hardcore PvE player. That is but a small microcosm of the player community.

TP is essential for a WvW based player who simply doesn’t want to run around killing all those mobs in all those dungeons just so they can hang out with a group of friends and kill other players. That player wants the convenience of a TP.

The casual PvEr who would not be able to get competitive wants a TP.

Essentially, all but the hardest core PvE player should want a TP. It is an option. You can always go get your gear the “slap a mob” way.

Even hard core PvE players want the TP, since that’s how they make their money too. Farming requires other players buying your stuff.

The people who dislike the TP do so because of either a lack of understanding of the basic economic concept it relies upon, or because they have a fundamental philosophical belief that contradicts free market principles.

The TP in Guild Wars 2 IS the entire game.

Unlike other MMOs GW2 doesn’t have achievement-based progression. Anything you want is gained from money.

People grind events because they don’t like/ aren’t good at playing the trade-post, the center-piece of the game.

If you ask people why they mindlessly farm auto-shot afk events all day it’s because everyone is hoping for a rare and profitable drop that will somehow elevate their wealth.

GW2’s entire game is built upon the trade-post. Without it it would instantly collapse because it doesn’t have much real, tangible depth or game-play to sustain it.

WvW is really the only aspect of the game that holds up on its own and is fairly independent of the TP. But even there many things tie to it.

Every form of progression, be it Ascended Gear or Legendaries, comes down to Gold. And that’s why everyone is trying to farm it in their own way.

mtpelion.4562:

The people who dislike the TP do so because of either a lack of understanding of the basic economic concept it relies upon, or because they have a fundamental philosophical belief that contradicts free market principles.

orly

“a free market is a market economy in which the forces of supply and demand are free of intervention by a government, price-setting monopolies, or other authority” it is from wikipedia but any other definition I found on the net including milton friedmans quotes are similiar

and in gw2 well thats not really a free market as we have taxes imposed by the government (anet), meddling in it with interventions (patch changes), control of supply and demand (anet sets the loot tables and crafting requirements and so on)

mtpelion.4562:

Even hard core PvE players want the TP, since that’s how they make their money too. Farming requires other players buying your stuff.

The people who dislike the TP do so because of either a lack of understanding of the basic economic concept it relies upon, or because they have a fundamental philosophical belief that contradicts free market principles.

That’s a bit big economic talks. If it is other game hardcore pve players would be busy on their bound on pickup raid drop.

But that’s probably comparing apple to orange since every game is different. Just like the other guy said TP is the entire game, since everything is rewarded base on gold drop.

I like John Smith’s reply on another post, they don’t want to have expire time on trading, because long term investment will take a hit. And they want to make “trading post” fun. Or more precisely long term investment fun.

Dee Jay.2460:

The TP in Guild Wars 2 IS the entire game.

Unlike other MMOs GW2 doesn’t have achievement-based progression. Anything you want is gained from money.

People grind events because they don’t like/ aren’t good at playing the trade-post, the center-piece of the game.

If you ask people why they mindlessly farm auto-shot afk events all day it’s because everyone is hoping for a rare and profitable drop that will somehow elevate their wealth.

GW2’s entire game is built upon the trade-post. Without it it would instantly collapse because it doesn’t have much real, tangible depth or game-play to sustain it.

WvW is really the only aspect of the game that holds up on its own and is fairly independent of the TP. But even there many things tie to it.

Every form of progression, be it Ascended Gear or Legendaries, comes down to Gold. And that’s why everyone is trying to farm it in their own way.

This wouldnt change even if the TP did not exist in the game. Quite frankly the TP is a blessing that people dont comprehend. Seriously, do people want to see that much spam in chat?

WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
Next WB is up!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each![/spoiler]
Is that really what people want to see in every zone?

(if a mod reads this, the spoiler tags arent correctly working for me)

Wikie.2610:

mtpelion.4562:

The people who dislike the TP do so because of either a lack of understanding of the basic economic concept it relies upon, or because they have a fundamental philosophical belief that contradicts free market principles.

orly

“a free market is a market economy in which the forces of supply and demand are free of intervention by a government, price-setting monopolies, or other authority” it is from wikipedia but any other definition I found on the net including milton friedmans quotes are similiar

and in gw2 well thats not really a free market as we have taxes imposed by the government (anet), meddling in it with interventions (patch changes), control of supply and demand (anet sets the loot tables and crafting requirements and so on)

1) Taxes are not intervention, price-setting monopolies, or “other authorities” involving supply and demand. Taxes are on the sale of items. If I had to pay gold every time I picked something up, that’d be impinging on the free market.
2) Patches do not intervene with supply and demand as a government agency. They affect the supply and demand as environmental changes. Silk scraps? Previously worthless, but once players “discovered” how to craft Ascended tier materials, silk scrap became valuable. That’s not because of Anet saying “PLAYERS, THIS PREVIOUSLY WORTHLESS ITEM IS NOW WORTH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY MORE. THIS IS OUR MESSAGE AS YOUR GOD.”
3) Modulation of loot tables and crafting requirements are necessary in order for items to be worth more than NPC price. It’s also done as an environmental force, not governmental. Not to mention Anet indirectly controls supply and demand. It’s ideal for them not to have to do ANYTHING because it’s players that drive supply and demand.

Quite frankly, I wouldnt be complaining about Anet being “the government.” They’re pretty lax as it is. Sure you pay 15% sales tax, but that’s it. Anet does not demand income tax, that you pay for social benefits, or any of that sort.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Dee Jay.2460:

The TP in Guild Wars 2 IS the entire game.

Unlike other MMOs GW2 doesn’t have achievement-based progression. Anything you want is gained from money.

People grind events because they don’t like/ aren’t good at playing the trade-post, the center-piece of the game.

If you ask people why they mindlessly farm auto-shot afk events all day it’s because everyone is hoping for a rare and profitable drop that will somehow elevate their wealth.

GW2’s entire game is built upon the trade-post. Without it it would instantly collapse because it doesn’t have much real, tangible depth or game-play to sustain it.

WvW is really the only aspect of the game that holds up on its own and is fairly independent of the TP. But even there many things tie to it.

Every form of progression, be it Ascended Gear or Legendaries, comes down to Gold. And that’s why everyone is trying to farm it in their own way.

This wouldnt change even if the TP did not exist in the game. Quite frankly the TP is a blessing that people dont comprehend. Seriously, do people want to see that much spam in chat?

He’s not even talking about that.

Basically, if it is another game you might be doing your ever ending raids for your never ending new tier of gear. Or competing in ladders. Which isn’t related to the TP.

But everything in GW2 is very gold focus. Also he complain about the depth of GW2 game play and think without the TP, the game would just collapse. I think he somehow thinks most players are farmers and not necessary playing the game, because the game play dont’ have much depth.

Aidan Savage.2078:

2) Patches do not intervene with supply and demand as a government agency. They affect the supply and demand as environmental changes. Silk scraps? Previously worthless, but once players “discovered” how to craft Ascended tier materials, silk scrap became valuable. That’s not because of Anet saying “PLAYERS, THIS PREVIOUSLY WORTHLESS ITEM IS NOW WORTH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY MORE. THIS IS OUR MESSAGE AS YOUR GOD.”

With that logic, Anet didn’t interfere with limited edition items.

Molten jetpack drops during Lion’s Arch invasion because citizens of Lion’s Arch happens to be event item collector. Whom are thankful for you deeds, so they give you things like monocle, molten pack as rewards. It is totally not because Anet put them there.

Aidan Savage.2078:

1) Taxes are not intervention, price-setting monopolies, or “other authorities” involving supply and demand. Taxes are on the sale of items. If I had to pay gold every time I picked something up, that’d be impinging on the free market.
2) Patches do not intervene with supply and demand as a government agency. They affect the supply and demand as environmental changes. Silk scraps? Previously worthless, but once players “discovered” how to craft Ascended tier materials, silk scrap became valuable. That’s not because of Anet saying “PLAYERS, THIS PREVIOUSLY WORTHLESS ITEM IS NOW WORTH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY MORE. THIS IS OUR MESSAGE AS YOUR GOD.”
3) Modulation of loot tables and crafting requirements are necessary in order for items to be worth more than NPC price. It’s also done as an environmental force, not governmental. Not to mention Anet indirectly controls supply and demand. It’s ideal for them not to have to do ANYTHING because it’s players that drive supply and demand.

Quite frankly, I wouldnt be complaining about Anet being “the government.” They’re pretty lax as it is. Sure you pay 15% sales tax, but that’s it. Anet does not demand income tax, that you pay for social benefits, or any of that sort.

read again what I said….
I said anet is the government imposing the taxes then I said patch changes can be an intervention as in the case of silks you mentioned yourself and just because of that rest of your argument fails
environmental force? players control supply and demand? not really, anet themselves said that they did those changes because silk was worthless so while introducing ascended armor lets just drive the demand for silk up and since its much worse than rest of the mats for other types of armor lets make it 3 silks for a bolt instead of 2 as with other craftings while were at it that will drive the demand even more
you can argue all you want but these fundamental changes to armor systems and mats to craft em obviously resulted in as you rightly put it

PLAYERS, THIS PREVIOUSLY WORTHLESS ITEM IS NOW WORTH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY MORE. THIS IS OUR MESSAGE AS YOUR GOD."

and anet did know that and thats why they did it

Nope. Anet controls the Supply, and the player’s needs control the Demand. Things balance out in the end. Look at how cheap Silk is now compared to a few months ago.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Nope. Anet controls the Supply, and the player’s needs control the Demand. Things balance out in the end. Look at how cheap Silk is now compared to a few months ago.

that always struck me as a bad design. The pattern already happened earlier when the game was released. Cloth was expensive early because the sources were pretty small, but as everyone got their gear it began to become less and less valuable, especially silk because level 80 players create it without intent, and it doesnt have a sink like precursors (legendary armor causes silk spikes?)

It would have been better to come up with some recurring use for silk(that people actually desire) rather than tack it onto ascended crafting which will diminish over time, as people either get ascended or refuse to.
Also would need some more direct means of obtaining it, once they created a renewable demand

Hello comrades!

How often has the idea of significantly increasing the gold reward from Arenanet points to balance tp earnings been discussed and where could I find the corresponding threads? Increasing the rewards from “playing the game” has been discussed for sure.
I feel like most topics have been honestly, but I seem to be too clumsy to make the search function work?

Having 15-20k Anet points seems pretty legendary to me and most likely hasn’t been earned via the trading post (except of the “golden” achievment and few others probably).
Handing out 1000 gold for 4000h of playtime (for instance) still nets out at .25g/h playing the game, in addition to the 4000h of fun of course.
I have no idea if 15k Anet points equal 4000h of playtime.

My opinion is: the Black Lion Trading Post is the best system for old and new players to sell and buy things, in any game I have known so far. Changing or limiting ways to sell items in whatever fashion (taxes, timegates) would impair every players enjoyment of the game ultimately. It is also playing the game or part of.
If you only do tp then yes, it is obviously playing the game.
“playing the game” means non-tp activities in this entire post, for a lack of a better word

As a tangible idea though I can so far only think of this.
One could bridge that gap or narrow it by rewarding “playing the game” more without taking away from the tp barons or hurting them in any way.
This means rewarding Anetpoints more.
I don’t think that the gold introduced (assuming 1000g for 20k anetpoints) to the economy would be enough in volume, compared to the 15% tax on trades, to change the economy in an unexpected/surprising way.

Another idea is a world boss kill button you can press to get 85% of what you would get by teleporting there and zerging it down, by mail, after 3-4h. Or put in 3 kill orders for 65% reward. It would count for dailies.

I’m neither using the TP a lot anymore (also because of mac) nor having money issues ingame btw, I just think it’s a great tool and I’m glad I dont have to shout “want to sell x” in a chat. I have almost 5000 Anet points

Have a good time doing stuff ingame or outside while waiting for new content.

Michael Walker.8150:

I don’t think that the gold introduced (assuming 1000g for 20k anetpoints) to the economy would be enough in volume, compared to the 15% tax on trades, to change the economy in an unexpected/surprising way.

This is why Anet has an Economist who understands how economies works. When you use “Entitlement” as an excuse to give free stuff, it’s always bad for the economy as a whole. In fact, it’s bad design for the game as a whole. AP tiers have small Gold rewards, but more exclusive Account Bound ones as well. That way, when you meet different tiers of achievement, you can’t just sell it off to make money. That’s the proper way to give carrots to players in the AP race.

On a side note, most players who already hit 20k AP don’t need the extra money. So this idea would basically make the rich players richer for no reason at all.

Essence Snow.3194:

Obtena.7952:

All content does guarantee a Precursor. You just need to do enough content for that guarantee.

In no possible way is this factual.

Of course it is. You earn gold doing content, you buy precursors with gold. Therefore, you can get a precursor if you do enough content. Is your belief so unrelenting you won’t even acknowledge truth?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Michael Walker.8150:

I don’t think that the gold introduced (assuming 1000g for 20k anetpoints) to the economy would be enough in volume, compared to the 15% tax on trades, to change the economy in an unexpected/surprising way.

This is why Anet has an Economist who understands how economies works. When you use “Entitlement” as an excuse to give free stuff, it’s always bad for the economy as a whole. In fact, it’s bad design for the game as a whole. AP tiers have small Gold rewards, but more exclusive Account Bound ones as well. That way, when you meet different tiers of achievement, you can’t just sell it off to make money. That’s the proper way to give carrots to players in the AP race.

On a side note, most players who already hit 20k AP don’t need the extra money. So this idea would basically make the rich players richer for no reason at all.

I wanted to add a sentence saying that Anet would have a good grasp on a good ratio ap/g if they agreed with them being too little, but cancelled the edit because one can assume that.
If John Smith says that would be very bad for the economy I will believe him, I mainly asked for threads about this topic

I know there are tiers and rewards and rich players. There are some people who played a long time yet unable to get a legendary for instance or having other “3000g problems”. The rich players would be rich without the help of AP, the rich ones with AP wouldn’t complain I think (if they don’t need it they might not even care) and the ones that have AP but are “poor” would get richer for the reason of having played a lot. And playing a lot or just playing is the ultimate goal right?

It’s not about putting everybody up there with the richest, it’s to make that gap a little smaller without hurting rich people. doesn’t have to close the gap fully or should, otherwise people find ways to farm AP.

The exclusive rewards are very nice, being able to choose from several hundred less exclusive, maybe more appealing rewards, is also very nice.

The economy is way stronger than you seem to assume and yes, giving out free stuff is bad (if you can trade it). Having invested a lot of time playing the game isn’t really free.
It’s also not free for anybody with less than those AP and will stay locked until they reach it.
The total amount of gold used in trading exceeds those seemingly very high rewards anyway. That’s my point, it seems bigger/unfairer a reward than it is.

How do you “close the gap” between poor players and rich players, when you’re gifting large monetary rewards to players who probably have a lot of money already? You just create more problems for the OCD players who then feel compelled to get to the 20k AP goal as fast as possible. From a psychological standpoint, you make the game worse when a majority will assume that you can only “be rich” by grinding to 20k AP. This is why the current AP rewards structure is good as it is now. You get exclusive skins and titles, some Gold and Gems, as well as a sense of progression with the leaderboards. All without freebies that can be sold.

you close it between a poor person with ap and a rich person without who plays the tp instead. not in general but in relation to tp players with little ap it does. it does less so for people with less ap, maybe linear who knows.

the monetary rewards within the ap progression have been there for a while, like sigils that have been adjusted or pvp rewards with which you were able to make quite some money.
you can only grind that much for ap, lots of it comes from playing the living story and getting achievments ingame.
Im not sure where you get that psychological standpoint that a majority of players would then assume that’s the only way to get rich . I mean, it’s a strong incentive to get all the achievments and follow the story, sure, even grind parts if you want to get there “faster” – lets say 1 year instead of 2 . Still nowhere even close to regular content and how much you could earn there. People aren’t stupid after all and almost everybody who does grind content knows basic math.

Obtena.7952:

Essence Snow.3194:

Obtena.7952:

All content does guarantee a Precursor. You just need to do enough content for that guarantee.

In no possible way is this factual.

Of course it is. You earn gold doing content, you buy precursors with gold. Therefore, you can get a precursor if you do enough content. Is your belief so unrelenting you won’t even acknowledge truth?

thats not true due to inflation.
at the current rates of increase, earning 1 gold a day will never get you a precursor.

so you need to be earning enough gold to beat inflation, then you have to consider if you arent beating inflation by a decent amount, you wont achieve your goal for more years than the game will probably be out.
currently for dusk i think it was, if you are not earning 2.9 gold a day, you will never be able to buy a precursor. If you are earning something like 3.4. it will take you greater than 150 years.
things change, and may or may not level off, but saying precursor is guananteed by doing enough work is a lie. Its a competitive market, and inflation is high. earning money doesnt guarantee you a precursor any more than a 3rd world minimum wage factory worker is guaranteed to eventually get enough for new york city house.

Now if precursors were sold at a fixed price via npc, you might have a point, but they are not.

Michael Walker.8150:

you close it between a poor person with ap and a rich person without who plays the tp instead. not in general but in relation to tp players with little ap it does. it does less so for people with less ap, maybe linear who knows.

the monetary rewards within the ap progression have been there for a while, like sigils that have been adjusted or pvp rewards with which you were able to make quite some money.
you can only grind that much for ap, lots of it comes from playing the living story and getting achievments ingame.
Im not sure where you get that psychological standpoint that a majority of players would then assume that’s the only way to get rich . I mean, it’s a strong incentive to get all the achievments and follow the story, sure, even grind parts if you want to get there “faster” – lets say 1 year instead of 2 . Still nowhere even close to regular content and how much you could earn there. People aren’t stupid after all and almost everybody who does grind content knows basic math.

A poor person wouldn’t have 20k AP, or be remotely close to it.

As for incentive… just no. Advertising free 1k Gold if you hit 20k AP just makes players feel forced to race to the top. It’s because they’ll feel that it’s the only way to succeed. Like putting blinders on a race horse.

phys.7689:

Obtena.7952:

Essence Snow.3194:

Obtena.7952:

All content does guarantee a Precursor. You just need to do enough content for that guarantee.

In no possible way is this factual.

Of course it is. You earn gold doing content, you buy precursors with gold. Therefore, you can get a precursor if you do enough content. Is your belief so unrelenting you won’t even acknowledge truth?

so you need to be earning enough gold to beat inflation,

So you don’t think the average person’s earning can beat inflation? Based on your only speculation of course …. I’m going to pull you back to reality.

Anet understands that the game’s success requires the TP to work for everyone. As we have already seen numerous times, we know they will step in when they have to make corrections and the sum of these things affects the factors that influence inflation.

So yes what I said is true because the success of the game depends on Anet having some oversight on the economy, and this includes inflation.

I don’t know a single player over 20k AP who you can actually call poor.

Generally we aren’t as rich as Vol/Wanze but we definitely aren’t the ones who need the gold…

Obtena.7952:

phys.7689:

Obtena.7952:

Essence Snow.3194:

Obtena.7952:

All content does guarantee a Precursor. You just need to do enough content for that guarantee.

In no possible way is this factual.

Of course it is. You earn gold doing content, you buy precursors with gold. Therefore, you can get a precursor if you do enough content. Is your belief so unrelenting you won’t even acknowledge truth?

so you need to be earning enough gold to beat inflation,

That would be a significant concern if inflation was so out of control that yuou couldn’t purchase things. Unfortunately, that’s not the case. Inflation can be something that is controlled in this game and Anet understands that the game’s success requires the TP to work for everyone. As we have already seen numerous times, we know they will step in when they have to make corrections and the sum of these things affects the factors that influence inflation.

So yes what I said is true.

they have not to this day shown much desire to control precursors prices at all, so no what you said isnt true. I m basing what i say not on what i think, or what should be, its based on real data.
a person who made 1 gold a day from release is actually farther from a precursor today in days, than he was the 2nd day the bltc went live.

618 days since the game came out
dusk costs
1169 is cost of dusk

its real data, real math.
interestingly enough, last year at this time dusk costed 619 gold.
550 gold increase in one year time. so no they do not control inflation in this case

Obtena.7952:

phys.7689:

Obtena.7952:

Essence Snow.3194:

Obtena.7952:

All content does guarantee a Precursor. You just need to do enough content for that guarantee.

In no possible way is this factual.

Of course it is. You earn gold doing content, you buy precursors with gold. Therefore, you can get a precursor if you do enough content. Is your belief so unrelenting you won’t even acknowledge truth?

so you need to be earning enough gold to beat inflation,

So you don’t think the average person’s earning can beat inflation? Based on your only speculation of course …. I’m going to pull you back to reality.

Anet understands that the game’s success requires the TP to work for everyone. As we have already seen numerous times, we know they will step in when they have to make corrections and the sum of these things affects the factors that influence inflation.

So yes what I said is true because the success of the game depends on Anet having some oversight on the economy, and this includes inflation.

im not going to say things like average persons earning, because we dont have access to that data.

point is, its not a guarantee to eventually be able to afford a precursor. Its only a guarantee if you earn at a rate greater than inflation of the precursor, and noticeably greater if you want to get it within 2 years.

Obtena.7952:

phys.7689:

Obtena.7952:

Essence Snow.3194:

Obtena.7952:

All content does guarantee a Precursor. You just need to do enough content for that guarantee.

In no possible way is this factual.

Of course it is. You earn gold doing content, you buy precursors with gold. Therefore, you can get a precursor if you do enough content. Is your belief so unrelenting you won’t even acknowledge truth?

so you need to be earning enough gold to beat inflation,

So you don’t think the average person’s earning can beat inflation? Based on your only speculation of course …. I’m going to pull you back to reality.

Anet understands that the game’s success requires the TP to work for everyone. As we have already seen numerous times, we know they will step in when they have to make corrections and the sum of these things affects the factors that influence inflation.

So yes what I said is true because the success of the game depends on Anet having some oversight on the economy, and this includes inflation.

Here’s the problem. You claimed absolutes. “All content” and “guarantee”. Does all content guarantee one?

Well first we need to look at what “all content” encompasses. All being an absolute ecompasses every possible bit of content the game has to offer. This includes things like trading as well things such as roleplaying. I think you can see where I am going with this. Things like averages do not matter in this context.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

A poor person wouldn’t have 20k AP, or be remotely close to it.

As for incentive… just no. Advertising free 1k Gold if you hit 20k AP just makes players feel forced to race to the top. It’s because they’ll feel that it’s the only way to succeed. Like putting blinders on a race horse.

I dont’ even know what AP is, the other guy is talking about Anet point, or does it mean achievement points here.

Chances are people with 20k AP wont’ have that much monetary assets. Those people barely have anytime to farm money.

they are probably not poor, but most likely not rich too. So basically those people arn’t rich but spend way more time and you are complaining. But those TP flippers, who spend much less time and are way richer you are protecting them.

laokoko.7403:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

A poor person wouldn’t have 20k AP, or be remotely close to it.

As for incentive… just no. Advertising free 1k Gold if you hit 20k AP just makes players feel forced to race to the top. It’s because they’ll feel that it’s the only way to succeed. Like putting blinders on a race horse.

I dont’ even know what AP is, the other guy is talking about Anet point, or does it mean achievement points here.

Chances are people with 20k AP wont’ have that much monetary assets. Those people barely have anytime to farm money.

they are probably not poor, but most likely not rich too. So basically those people arn’t rich but spend way more time and you are complaining. But those TP flippers, who spend much less time and are way richer you are protecting them.

I mean Arenanet Points with AP. I’m not sure if you get achievment points or if you get Anet points through achievments (seriously, do you also get achievment points?). Sorry about that, should have clarified it somewhere.
Fact is however that we have no clue how rich a person with 20k AP is kitten far the Arenanet points don’t net you a lot of gold. And how you got to 20k AP varies from player to player, some might have gotten it by farming and getting the AP during that time.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

A poor person wouldn’t have 20k AP, or be remotely close to it.

As for incentive… just no. Advertising free 1k Gold if you hit 20k AP just makes players feel forced to race to the top. It’s because they’ll feel that it’s the only way to succeed. Like putting blinders on a race horse.

Yes you have said this before but you still haven’t told me why they would feel so or how it is like putting blinders on a race horse.
I never talked about advertising gold?
Earning gold is not the only way to succeed in guild wars 2, playing the game and having fun are more important in my opinion. And nobody forces you to get Arenanet points, that’s just your decision.

//edit

Yes Achievment points exist obviously, it’s what those points are, Arenanet Points is only a name. Stupid me, like learning that you can ascend under water by pressing space….after a year of playing
My bad.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Achievement

I stopped trying to flip stuff because I was bad at it and it made me dislike the game. It’s so annoying to hear someone say “Oh man I just made tons of gold on the TP it’s so easy, but if I tell you how it stops working”. I get that people might enjoy trading but it shouldn’t get so much attention it seems to be getting. It might be just me but trading isn’t part of the actual game, it’s just what resulted because of sloppy rewards. You don’t tell your friends about Guild Wars 2 because of the trading, you tell about the cool world, dungeons and such.

The game needs more rewards not based on RNG. I wanna fight specific stuff for that specific item. I shouldn’t have to resort to TP when I don’t get what I need (this is different than also having the option to farm for the item, TP should be there if I don’t want to farm for the item). RNG + account bound is awful. I believe dungeons had it right, you can get your tokens which over time builds up to an item you might want. You can also salvage the rewards if it doesn’t suit you. However nothing has changed there since release. Less and less people don’t have anything to work for from dungeons anymore. The new exclusive world boss rewards are completely RNG based, who cares if you killed Tequatl a hundred times, that new guy who has never done it just got the weapon you want.

Michael Walker.8150:

Yes you have said this before but you still haven’t told me why they would feel so or how it is like putting blinders on a race horse.
I never talked about advertising gold?
Earning gold is not the only way to succeed in guild wars 2, playing the game and having fun are more important in my opinion. And nobody forces you to get Arenanet points, that’s just your decision.

I’ll try to explain By listing a reward of 1k Gold for hitting the 20k AP tier, that is a way of “advertising” free Gold from the game. In the minds of players, they will have tunnel vision on this wealth. These players will only focus on that single goal as a way of getting money in this game. The psychology of this is that their behaviors will be dictated by the need to obtain wealth. The game turns from being fun and entertaining, to becoming a chore (although it has for some).

-Gotta log in everyday to get AP. If you miss one day, that will have a negative impact on your play style
-Can’t waste time farming, unless it’s somehow tied to getting AP (i.e. 1k monster kill achievements
-Can’t deviate from AP hunting, so players won’t have time to help others… unless it’s in line with getting AP for themselves. This leads to a less social MMO game, and turns into a single player mindset.
-Game goes down due to maintenance is like the world ending. Forums will be filled with complaints that the “Casual” players’ time is being lost because they can’t log in.

Granted, not all players think like this. But Anet knows well that if you put a highly desirable carrot on a far away stick, players will focus on it to try and get it as fast as possible. A mild example of this are the Legendary weapons. These were supposed to take upwards of a year to craft, but people managed to get it in a fraction of the time (largely thanks to the TP). Anet underestimated how hardcore and dedicated their players were when there’s something you really want.

Part of designing and marketing a game is to understand how your customers think. Every decision can have a consequence. Make the game too easy, the game dies faster. Make the game too hard, frustrated players will quit. Offer too many wealth faucets in a game that has a global economy, you break the economy. And offer a reward that outshines all other rewards, people will only care about that one reward.

so you think rewarding 5 silver per ap is too much reward?

laokoko.7403:

so you think rewarding 5 silver per ap is too much reward?

I do (think it’s too much). I have > 15k AP … others I know with similar tallies (generally gw1 veterans) — while not all “rich” — have little or no need for more gold. (I certainly don’t need more, though I won’t refuse it when game mechanisms give me more.)

linuxotaku.4731:

laokoko.7403:

so you think rewarding 5 silver per ap is too much reward?

I do (think it’s too much). I have > 15k AP … others I know with similar tallies (generally gw1 veterans) — while not all “rich” — have little or no need for more gold. (I certainly don’t need more, though I won’t refuse it when game mechanisms give me more.)

So that’s too much gold, and flippers making more in a fraction of the time, isn’t making too much gold?

laokoko.7403:

so you think rewarding 5 silver per ap is too much reward?

This is where the psychology of marketing comes into play. 5 Silver per AP doesn’t seem like much, but when you multiple it up with a large amount, the end result appears to be more desirable. What sounds better to you:

1) Free 5 Silver per AP
2) Free 1,000 Gold when you reach 20,000 AP

Majority of players will automatically focus on the large number, because of the desire to have it. Just as how consumers focus on the lower number when it comes to sales (i.e. $19.99 sounds a lot better than $20, or three payments of $19.99 sounds a lot better than $60).

Back to your question (sorry for a long post for a short question). Yes, 5 Silver per AP is too much of a reward. Current trend is about 91 Copper per AP when you hit 20k (182 Gold). That doesn’t include the 1,600 free Gems bonus. That alone is enough as a reward. Adding an extra 1k Gold to that is overkill.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

laokoko.7403:

so you think rewarding 5 silver per ap is too much reward?

This is where the psychology of marketing comes into play. 5 Silver per AP doesn’t seem like much, but when you multiple it up with a large amount, the end result appears to be more desirable. What sounds better to you:

1) Free 5 Silver per AP
2) Free 1,000 Gold when you reach 20,000 AP

Majority of players will automatically focus on the large number, because of the desire to have it. Just as how consumers focus on the lower number when it comes to sales (i.e. $19.99 sounds a lot better than $20, or three payments of $19.99 sounds a lot better than $60).

Back to your question (sorry for a long post for a short question). Yes, 5 Silver per AP is too much of a reward. Current trend is about 91 Copper per AP when you hit 20k (182 Gold). That doesn’t include the 1,600 free Gems bonus. That alone is enough as a reward. Adding an extra 1k Gold to that is overkill.

Who in the right mind will farm 20,000 AP just for 1000 gold. Those people farm AP because they like farming AP, or they just happened to get AP because they do their daily.

laokoko.7403:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

laokoko.7403:

so you think rewarding 5 silver per ap is too much reward?

This is where the psychology of marketing comes into play. 5 Silver per AP doesn’t seem like much, but when you multiple it up with a large amount, the end result appears to be more desirable. What sounds better to you:

1) Free 5 Silver per AP
2) Free 1,000 Gold when you reach 20,000 AP

Majority of players will automatically focus on the large number, because of the desire to have it. Just as how consumers focus on the lower number when it comes to sales (i.e. $19.99 sounds a lot better than $20, or three payments of $19.99 sounds a lot better than $60).

Back to your question (sorry for a long post for a short question). Yes, 5 Silver per AP is too much of a reward. Current trend is about 91 Copper per AP when you hit 20k (182 Gold). That doesn’t include the 1,600 free Gems bonus. That alone is enough as a reward. Adding an extra 1k Gold to that is overkill.

Who in the right mind will farm 20,000 AP just for 1000 gold. Those people farm AP because they like farming AP, or they just happened to get AP because they do their daily.

There are many. The same amount would come to the forums to complain that there isn’t enough opportunities to get AP should that happen. Of course there’s no way to prove this hypothetical situation, since Anet would never implement it. I’m basing this on my first hand understandings of how a lot of people view and react to high end rewards.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

laokoko.7403:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

laokoko.7403:

so you think rewarding 5 silver per ap is too much reward?

This is where the psychology of marketing comes into play. 5 Silver per AP doesn’t seem like much, but when you multiple it up with a large amount, the end result appears to be more desirable. What sounds better to you:

1) Free 5 Silver per AP
2) Free 1,000 Gold when you reach 20,000 AP

Majority of players will automatically focus on the large number, because of the desire to have it. Just as how consumers focus on the lower number when it comes to sales (i.e. $19.99 sounds a lot better than $20, or three payments of $19.99 sounds a lot better than $60).

Back to your question (sorry for a long post for a short question). Yes, 5 Silver per AP is too much of a reward. Current trend is about 91 Copper per AP when you hit 20k (182 Gold). That doesn’t include the 1,600 free Gems bonus. That alone is enough as a reward. Adding an extra 1k Gold to that is overkill.

Who in the right mind will farm 20,000 AP just for 1000 gold. Those people farm AP because they like farming AP, or they just happened to get AP because they do their daily.

There are many. The same amount would come to the forums to complain that there isn’t enough opportunities to get AP should that happen. Of course there’s no way to prove this hypothetical situation, since Anet would never implement it. I’m basing this on my first hand understandings of how a lot of people view and react to high end rewards.

Ok I suppose. Since Anet already are rewarding people more than 5 silver for getting 5 AP a day.

It’s probably not a terrible thing to reward people with 1k gold for 20k ap, just because most people probably quit before they reach it anyway.

With the rewards that players can get from actually playing the game, having all that extra would be too much. Even if 5 Silver per AP seems like a small amount, that adds up quick. Then the people who are Casual and can’t keep up will be left further behind as inflation picks up speed.

phys.7689:

so no they do not control inflation in this case

There is no ‘single item case’ for controlling inflation. Inflation describes an effect on the whole economy and we have seen multiple instances where Anet takes action that affects how it evolves. What you are referring to on precursors is not inflation, it’s simply the rise in price due to higher demand.

… and yes, you can earn enough gold doing whatever you want to beat that as well because 1) it doesn’t increase forever and 2) it’s a matter of time.

It’s really not relevant anyways. The thread is about TP killing the game for people. It does no such thing. If people weren’t so ignorant, they would realize how much it helps them get good value for their goods.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

With the rewards that players can get from actually playing the game, having all that extra would be too much. Even if 5 Silver per AP seems like a small amount, that adds up quick. Then the people who are Casual and can’t keep up will be left further behind as inflation picks up speed.

Quite honestly, there are probably people with larger bank account than number of people with 20k AP * 1000 gold.

There are probably too few people with 20k ap to make a difference. I think reward such as a gift of people’s choice or precursor for legendary won’t be a terrible idea.

I wonder how long it’ll take to get even 1k people with 20k ap.

But I’m not sure if Anet even want those people to play that much. Those people are wasting all the bandwidth.

I wonder how much it cost for Anet to upkeep the bandwidth etc.

Essence Snow.3194:

Here’s the problem. You claimed absolutes. “All content” and “guarantee”. Does all content guarantee one?

Well first we need to look at what “all content” encompasses. All being an absolute ecompasses every possible bit of content the game has to offer. This includes things like trading as well things such as roleplaying. I think you can see where I am going with this. Things like averages do not matter in this context.

Well, if you’re being pedantic just to argue instead of looking at the spirit of what’s being said …. then I will just roll my eyes at you and let you win. Have fun.

laokoko.7403:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

With the rewards that players can get from actually playing the game, having all that extra would be too much. Even if 5 Silver per AP seems like a small amount, that adds up quick. Then the people who are Casual and can’t keep up will be left further behind as inflation picks up speed.

Quite honestly, there are probably people with larger bank account than number of people with 20k AP * 1000 gold.

There are probably too few people with 20k ap to make a difference. I think reward such as a gift of people’s choice or precursor for legendary won’t be a terrible idea.

I wonder how long it’ll take to get even 1k people with 20k ap.

But I’m not sure if Anet even want those people to play that much. Those people are wasting all the bandwidth.

I wonder how much it cost for Anet to upkeep the bandwidth etc.

Well the point of my argument was not just having that much free Gold given out would be bad for the game. It was more along the lines of how it would affect the playing style of certain people. There would be too much negative impact on the game. Imagine how many complaints about not getting enough AP would fill the forums.

laokoko.7403:

linuxotaku.4731:

laokoko.7403:

so you think rewarding 5 silver per ap is too much reward?

I do (think it’s too much). I have > 15k AP … others I know with similar tallies (generally gw1 veterans) — while not all “rich” — have little or no need for more gold. (I certainly don’t need more, though I won’t refuse it when game mechanisms give me more.)

So that’s too much gold, and flippers making more in a fraction of the time, isn’t making too much gold?

I don’t have a problem with flippers making more money. They’ve focused on the part of the game that involves making money; it should be possible to do that more efficiently if that’s what you focus on and you’re good at what you do.

I have a professional job, and could easily convert cash to gold if I needed something (I have in the past; compared to the hours spent, the cost is trivial). I don’t think flippers hurt the game, I’m not jealous of them, and I don’t think they represent a problem which needs to be solved.

I do think the trading post could probably be improved so that casual participants get a better experience (some controversial suggestions from other threads: minimum increment for sell orders under the current sell price, or a radio button which defaults to the mean of current buy and sell orders so you don’t have to manually enter this). Some of changes might cut into profits flippers make … but in the markets I know, it wouldn’t have a big effect.

The trading post is probably the most useful tool in their possession to curb inflation.

The money coming in to the system has to be drained in order to avoid prices from reaching incomprehensible numbers. Every time an item exchanges hand, money is being taxed through the trading post and erased from the game. You can argue that repair and travel also serve this function but on a much smaller scale.

In a game where the most prestigious items require an absurd amount of materials to make, the trading post is not a part of the game, it is the game.

It is absolutely true that the tp destroys GW2. Unfortunatelly many people realized that “doing nothing = earning money” is the easiest way to get all they want. This means the “barons” won’t give a change a chance. You can read such reactions right here.

On the other side sooner or later GW2 will loose more and more player. Diablo 3 was nearly dead, because noone played the game anymore. Now, D3 has become to a great game again and it’s fun to play it. You have to play to achieve something there and you feel it.

Of course, we can still have fun here too, but it’s not the same. You have to decide either “earning money” or “having fun” and as a player, you feel fooled by the game itself.

Hi Smooth Penguin,

I’m sorry I didn’t have time to reply. I think the main issue here is you think enough people would complain and I don’t.
There isn’t enough evidence of people getting pushed towards that grindy mentality through bigger AP rewards, except of maybe the few who’d expect to reach 20k within a month, I think they already have more and different problems however.
The adjustment of the current AP reward could lead to negative consequences but I think this depends greatly on the extend it is being altered with the possibility of many people complaining or none (highly unlikely on the internet). It is already in place anyway, which is important to note. Sure would be less effort than a new system.
It just seems like a good approach that doesn’t change the trading post or takes from the rich.

Something I noticed today is that the first 5000AP are probably the most important and prone to grinding if that ever happened. I could actually see people grind this or find ways to make it profitable, the later 15k+ AP shouldn’t matter too much because they are so heavily time gated goals.

I will open a new thread with this idea as soon as I find the time to properly format a thread.

@laokoko.7403
they can probably afford the bandwidth now with the mega servers and having to host less servers effectively, might be a good time for this suggestion then

Michael

IKaikiasI.1932:

It is absolutely true that the tp destroys GW2 for me.

There. Now it’s correct. Now, I’m going to disregard the rest of your post because I’m having plenty of fun, and still making money. You arent? Well, not my problem.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Dee Jay.2460:

The TP in Guild Wars 2 IS the entire game.

Unlike other MMOs GW2 doesn’t have achievement-based progression. Anything you want is gained from money.

People grind events because they don’t like/ aren’t good at playing the trade-post, the center-piece of the game.

If you ask people why they mindlessly farm auto-shot afk events all day it’s because everyone is hoping for a rare and profitable drop that will somehow elevate their wealth.

GW2’s entire game is built upon the trade-post. Without it it would instantly collapse because it doesn’t have much real, tangible depth or game-play to sustain it.

WvW is really the only aspect of the game that holds up on its own and is fairly independent of the TP. But even there many things tie to it.

Every form of progression, be it Ascended Gear or Legendaries, comes down to Gold. And that’s why everyone is trying to farm it in their own way.

This wouldnt change even if the TP did not exist in the game. Quite frankly the TP is a blessing that people dont comprehend. Seriously, do people want to see that much spam in chat?

WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
Next WB is up!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each!
WTS 1000 Iron, 3s each![/spoiler]
Is that really what people want to see in every zone?

(if a mod reads this, the spoiler tags arent correctly working for me)

This make the current trade system best one in MMO ever it remove the WTS spam from this game