TP needs higher "default price", better messaging.
+1.
The vast majority of items are indeed 1c higher than vendor prices. Until this is fixed, I’ll just vendor everything.
I think this is due to the newness of the game and the fact that people still don’t quite understand how to use the trading post. As the game progresses and gets older, and the player-base becomes more knowledgeable, I think that the trading post will shift away from this trend.
Elegance in simplicity; Beauty in design.
I think this is due to the newness of the game and the fact that people still don’t quite understand how to use the trading post. As the game progresses and gets older, and the player-base becomes more knowledgeable, I think that the trading post will shift away from this trend.
Except there will always be new players, so items level 1-30 will probably always be 1 copper higher than vendor price. Unless ArenaNet fixes the messaging, all new players will unknowingly lose money on the trading post and probably think it’s useless.
I’ve noticed that it’s pointless trying to sell anything I craft as a chef (even with useful level 55+ food items), because people are selling things for 11c that COST 2s to make, even if you consider gathered ingredients as free. There’s just no way to compete unless I enjoy throwing money away. I don’t even have the option to vendor those items, so my bank is filling up with all manner of food items. I have to resort to giving them away to friends – can’t charge them, because they could go to the TP and buy these things for 11c, so why would they pay me more than that?
It’s not just that people fail to understand the 10% additional fee on sale completion, it’s that too many people are flinging stuff up on the TP at rock bottom price. Normally the supply and demand unique to each server ends up regulating the prices, but this isn’t happening on a global system. There are always thousands of people offering whatever is needed at a tiny price.
I love crafting but I just don’t see the point as things stand.
Hmm without context because they moved my topic I’ll start by saying. I disagree about a HIGHER floor. I think the floor needs to be removed because:
As said in other topics we have an epidemic with people selling at a loss already.
There isn’t a realistic expectation that a person can buy the amount of items left on the bottom and raise the price to a price that would actually net a person a 1c gain over selling to a vendor.
profit = list price – list price * 0.15
profit = list price * (1 – 0.15)
profit = list price * 0.85
list price = profit / 0.85
list price = vendor price / 0.85
Listed above are the equations to break even with vendor price or profit calculation if you know how to math. (thanks, Jenosavel.1756 for the copy paste!)
The above being said, why should we want the floor removed?
Fewer items on the market.
Without a price floor, people will post below merchant price and those items will get snatched up and sold to a vendor, sometimes at a 1c gain sometimes at several silver or perhaps a few gold gain. The end result is fewer items on the market and a SUPPLY decrease.
The supply decrease is important for pricing items. If the supply falls enough you can start seeing items raise in price naturally and not artificially the way a price floor enforces.
Would this hurt players?!
No, then net result is still cash exchanging hands. If a player puts an item up for less than merchant price they decided the price they listed at would be beneficial to them.
All players have information in their hands, it is THE PLAYERS responsibility to use this information to their benefit. This means looking at items, understanding basic math and rationalizing a price that would, at minimum, break even from a sale.
Hopefully this gets some thoughts rolling. It likely won’t ever change the price floor that A.net has in place to “save” people from themselves, but maybe it gets some thoughts rolling on some other topics like raising the price floor to:
Minimum listing price = Vendor Price + (Vendor Price(.85))
get those juices flowing folks, we have a lot of work to do to clean up the mess that is the TP.
(edited by Akheron.8405)
I investigate the actual price of the item I’m selling before I post it, then either undercut slightly if it’s selling quickly or if I know there’ll be a constant stream of buyers I’ll pop it a little bit higher.
Bit of capitalist sense needed for some players I feel.
Bit of capitalist sense needed for some players I feel.
Indeed, I don’t mind people being generous and selling at a loss for a few items but at this point the price floor has dictated that in order to sell some items people have to do it at a loss.
Price floors are rarely good things.
best is to allow the market perfect information and hope they know what to do with it. if people sell for less than vendor price, that is their prerogative but allowing people to sell 1c above and STILL lose money just seems a bit odd…
Tried selling some ores on the TP, was not are of this 15% taxation. Wonder if the IRS should be notified, after all from what have read is the IRS been trying to get passed a bill in Congress to tax everything that goes on in a online economy and this taxation is what gives the IRS a good reason to force Congress to pass Internet Taxation Bill.
As for the TP itself, lost money on selling the ores so NO LONGER GOING TO SELL ANYTHING ON THE TRADING POST, ANYTHING I LOOT GOING TO BE SOLD TO VENDORS….
End Rant….
Aetheogh.9127|Sanctum of Rall Server|North America (Mountain Timezone)|(do not use voice)
I’ve noticed that it’s pointless trying to sell anything I craft as a chef (even with useful level 55+ food items), because people are selling things for 11c that COST 2s to make, even if you consider gathered ingredients as free. There’s just no way to compete unless I enjoy throwing money away. I don’t even have the option to vendor those items, so my bank is filling up with all manner of food items. I have to resort to giving them away to friends – can’t charge them, because they could go to the TP and buy these things for 11c, so why would they pay me more than that?
It’s not just that people fail to understand the 10% additional fee on sale completion, it’s that too many people are flinging stuff up on the TP at rock bottom price. Normally the supply and demand unique to each server ends up regulating the prices, but this isn’t happening on a global system. There are always thousands of people offering whatever is needed at a tiny price.
I love crafting but I just don’t see the point as things stand.
I am having the same problem. Why would I buy sage at 19c when the sage dressing is going for 5c? I wouldn’t mind so much if I could at least sell it to a vendor, but I don’t have that option. Crafting was one of the things I was looking forward to the most. It is even my duty as a guild officer to craft and trade, but crafting has become a huge disappointment because anything I make has no value in this economy. sad
profit = list price – list price * 0.15
profit = list price * (1 – 0.15)
profit = list price * 0.85
list price = profit / 0.85
list price = vendor price / 0.85
Those seem overly complicated to me. I think a much easier way to calculate profit is using “what you want to make as profit after all taxes * (100 / 85) = list at this price”. Or doing it backwards “Starting price before all taxes * 0.85 = profit after taxes removed”
(edited by Unpredictability.4086)
The real issue with the economy is that primary goods are anomalously more expensive than secondary goods. Which leads gear to be sold at floor price.
All of that because people are using crafting for exp, and not for getting new items.
Two major problems with the TP as it stands today:
1) The default price when selling junk is entirely too low, and people just end up listing things for 1 copper more than the vendor price. There is no interesting economy there. There’s no undercutting, no buyouts, no manipulating the market, no price wars, absolutely nothing that would otherwise make an MMO economy interesting because it is an item that no one wants to buy. So they get put up at bargain basement prices.
The 15% tax? If someone wants to clear up inventory space immediately, they can simply put it on the market. People just starting the game are probably rolling with 8 slot bags max. They fill up pretty quick during dynamic events. If they don’t want to risk it not selling at all, they can put it up for cheaper than a vendor if they feel like it. The person who buys it can then run to a vendor to sell it and profit—but the kicker is that he did a teeny weeny bit of legwork in going to a vendor—and made a teeny weeny profit.
Why is everyone so concerned about items selling at 1c over the vendor price? No one wants them. If it was a higher price, no one would buy them. You wouldn’t make more money. It is simple supply and demand here…
Two major problems with the TP as it stands today:
1) The default price when selling junk is entirely too low, and people just end up listing things for 1 copper more than the vendor price. There is no interesting economy there. There’s no undercutting, no buyouts, no manipulating the market, no price wars, absolutely nothing that would otherwise make an MMO economy interesting because it is an item that no one wants to buy. So they get put up at bargain basement prices.
The 15% tax? If someone wants to clear up inventory space immediately, they can simply put it on the market. People just starting the game are probably rolling with 8 slot bags max. They fill up pretty quick during dynamic events. If they don’t want to risk it not selling at all, they can put it up for cheaper than a vendor if they feel like it. The person who buys it can then run to a vendor to sell it and profit—but the kicker is that he did a teeny weeny bit of legwork in going to a vendor—and made a teeny weeny profit.
Why is everyone so concerned about items selling at 1c over the vendor price? No one wants them. If it was a higher price, no one would buy them. You wouldn’t make more money. It is simple supply and demand here…
I 100% agree with you.
I just wish the floor didn’t exist, would be awesome buying up all of what the sheeple post and reselling it at a gain.
I just wish the floor didn’t exist, would be awesome buying up all of what the sheeple post and reselling it at a gain.
I don’t get this. There are items nowhere near the “floor” right now, and they are typically the useful items. Go buy up all the sheeple’s ectoplasms and make profits if you are that market savvy.
I don’t get this. There are items nowhere near the “floor” right now, and they are typically the useful items. Go buy up all the sheeple’s ectoplasms and make profits if you are that market savvy.
Why should I, if tomorrow they removed the floor there would be a mad rush to buy everything that people posted below vendor price. I think you severely underestimate the amount of items sold at vendor+1c.
I just wish the floor didn’t exist, would be awesome buying up all of what the sheeple post and reselling it at a gain.
I don’t get this. There are items nowhere near the “floor” right now, and they are typically the useful items. Go buy up all the sheeple’s ectoplasms and make profits if you are that market savvy.
1) it’s not a guarantee you will not be constantly undercut and you have to monitor your sales to make sure you do not fall too low on the selling list.
2) If I could act as a vender junker on the TP, that would be easy and guaranteed money for me without having to worry about under cutters.
My comments on a few points:
-Floor price
Personally I don’t think removing it will change things. If people try to sell below vendor price, all it does is create and arbitrage opportunity (zero risk profit in financial term) as people snatch up all gears sold below vendor price and sells it to vendor. Buying pressure will push the price back up to vendor price, which is the equilibrium price. I think they put floor price as a guidance on how much the item is worth to prevent people from losing potential profit.
-on listing fee and tax
Necessary to control currency inflation and reduce speculation in the market. I can only say they must have some good economist working for them to make a design like this.
-Crafting not making money
Dev never intends crafting to make huge amount of money…more for your own and guild benefits. Since there is an incentive (xp) to craft, higher proportion of people will be crafting, thus a higher supply of the skill diminishes its value.
-people selling things cheap
They have their own reason: convenience? information asymetry? Ignorance. No point to argue on that.
-On cheap gear
Gear/met drops are much higher because everyone can loot a dead corpse that you contributed in killing it. Not only does this increases supply, but it also decreases demand. Karma gear and crafted gears also reduce demand…hence gear sells at or near vendor price. Natural economic phenomenon in a perfect competition and efficient market.
-Putting it all together
The economy is different to other MMO. Adapt rather than having the game change it to suit you. It is possible to play the market and make profit…it just takes more effort and knowledge on the movement of the market compared to other games.
In all, I think it generally benefits the player base. The huge economy diminishes the power of an individual or a cartel of players to influence/control the market significantly. This may be one of the more efficient market in any mmo (maybe besides eve). Due to the difficulty and cost in trading, more people will be able to use the AH for its true purpose: trade (not speculate). If what you want to sell isn’t fetching a good price, that only means it’s not in demand…no point whining about it. I’m guessing players with real life investment experience don’t have much problem with this system because they already have the knowledge to play the market. For those without, grab an investment book, or just use the AH for its true purpose.
In summary, there is no problem with the AH. However, it would be helpful to make the sales tax more visible to help players that don’t keep an account on their profits from playing the market.
(edited by Wazabi.1439)
Simple point: If the tp cost (including fee) is higher than merch value, save it or don’t sell it. Are you saying that an economy must be corrupt to be fun? If not, I completely misunderstand your point and would like you to elaborate a little more on the small details that construct the basis of your post.
Also, I highly suggest you view this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx7o7CRoDXc
Everything you listed is something I’m very glad to not see in the economy.
I’ve been able to make profit of the trading post simply buy clicking sell items for everything but green onions and blueberries… The only detail you need to really pay attention to is is the listing fee, plus the sale price s a net that is less than the item merch price. Honestly, if you cannot keep track of something as minute as that, you kind of deserve to lose the money. It is in front of you.
My only suggestion is for Arenanet to make a small video on how to use the trading post. Covering listing prices, tax, how to get your item sold first, selling for profit, simple tips on what to sell and when. etc
I forgot to go over the 10% tax, which I think needs to be clearly listed in the UI.* Sorry about that.