Guild Wars 2

I just wanted to open a thread to talk about the best kinds of shops in the business. I’ve played many a B2P and F2P game out there and many of them have some pretty draconian systems for shops and pay models. While GW2 does have some economic problems when it comes to new player progression, that won’t be the focus of this thread. The focus of this thread is the shop itself and how best to improve it to keep veteran players coming back for a long time.

In this article, the writer talks about why TERA and RIFT economic models are the best ones for players. They have Veterans programs that give free items and mounts, they offer free daily items which are actually useful to most players, and they incentavize players to purchase (they have what I call a freemium system where a subscription gives players more however it’s not forced and you can’t tell the difference between a paying or non paying player).

I’d love to see this model here. One of the most frustrating things has been temporary sales for some, and while most games have temporary sales they sell their products in the store year round so they don’t disappear before someone can actually make a purchase.

http://news.mmosite.com/content/2014-09-07/why_tera_and_rifts_f2p_models_are_awekittenml

This isn’t a criticism thread in this case I genuinely would like to start a discussion about it to gather the developers attention to this aspect that I feel is missing from their game, one which if done correctly could benefit both the players and the developers in the long run.

Maybe the problem is the fact that there is no grinding factor other than for a legendary. In other mmos, you can spend years to grind for an exclusive item that is obtainable by playing the game. Even flipping was a method used to get this coveted item, not to purchase the item outright.. Here, unfortunately you can buy the most exclusive if you have enough money. It’s a bit disheartening to see so many people running around with a legendary without even the map completion star to their name. I think it detracts from the those hardcore gamers who grind.. even for years for the most exclusive items that game can offer. What’s the point when someone who played a game for a week can buy it with real life currency? My hope is that the next set of legendaries if they are in the works can not be tradeable nor can you purchase them.

Second, there isn’t a very hard core end game model that would keep someone’s attention here exclusively for a long time. The dungeons were abandoned by the developers with no extensive updates planned in the future.

That being said, I still love this game. But it’s not the only game I play. It doesn’t have enough content for me to log in every single day. I haven’t even reached a year yet and my total play time hour is just reaching 1000 on all characters.

This thread actually was specifically about their shop model and it’s lack of a veteran system, it’s lack of daily rewards to help keep players coming back (actual items of use), and the system they use for temporary sales. I’ve answered in other threads concerning loot, progression, and the tendency of the system to require new players to purchase gold.

This thread isn’t about that subject, it’s about improving the shop with a veterans rewards system that gives players things like cosmetics titles pets, a system of keeping items in the shop constant and having only sales days be the cyclical system (rather than removing items altogether), and making it so that players cannot be distinguished between pay and non pay as with your comment on legendary being purchased outright.

I agree it’s out of hand, I can understand that they wanted to beat the gold farmers but in this case with the legendaries I think they hurt themselves because it allows players to be seen as either someone who’s paid and someone who’s not paid to play.

layzoe.6035:

It’s a bit disheartening to see so many people running around with a legendary without even the map completion star to their name

I stoped reading from this point.
Wardrobe.
My level 2 guardian immediately had sunrise, be cause I love that weapon.

Harny.6012:

layzoe.6035:

It’s a bit disheartening to see so many people running around with a legendary without even the map completion star to their name

I stoped reading from this point.
Wardrobe.
My level 2 guardian immediately had sunrise, be cause I love that weapon.

This is exactly why the whole having a legendary as BiS is a joke. I stopped reading when I got to.. my level 2 guardian.

Well B2P is the older business model for video games. It works well over all and what will keep online and offline gaming alive for a long time.

The system they have in place at the moment is not reward veterans but punish them if they don’t log in for the living stories by making the players pay 200 diamonds for each missing episode. Not sure who came up with that system. But then most P2P mmos need the monthly subscription to keep it running which is why they offer incentive to players to return to collect such items, badges, and veteran rewards. GW2 needs the gem shop hence they seem more focused on players who play currently and purchase the gems.

The priority seems to be to those who play the game.. and obtaining new player base. League of Legends is the most generous to its players but it only works for them because of the massive amount of player base they have.. it is not a business model that any economist would suggest; however, I have been reading that despite decline of game sale itself (GW2)… the company did reasonably well through the gem store.

Jski.6180:

Well B2P is the older business model for video games. It works well over all and what will keep online and offline gaming alive for a long time.

B2P was a good system back when it first began, however it’s since become a system of misdirection having players pay for the game then pay for the game twice.

The games shop could use an overhaul as well, it’s been long overdue for a veterans program and the system of making purchasable items disappear doesn’t work very well. Can’t tell you the number of times I’ve wanted to buy gathering tools for the rest of my toons only to discover they disappeared when I actually had the money to do so.

tigirius.9014:

Jski.6180:

Well B2P is the older business model for video games. It works well over all and what will keep online and offline gaming alive for a long time.

B2P was a good system back when it first began, however it’s since become a system of misdirection having players pay for the game then pay for the game twice.

The games shop could use an overhaul as well, it’s been long overdue for a veterans program and the system of making purchasable items disappear doesn’t work very well. Can’t tell you the number of times I’ve wanted to buy gathering tools for the rest of my toons only to discover they disappeared when I actually had the money to do so.

Why should ppl who been playing longer get any benefits when they already have the benefits of getting both gems and items at a much lower prices when the game was first out.
When i say first type of business type i mean true first back when video games first came out single players games are B2P all of them. Most things in life are B2Use or B2Own. The buy agen or added things is comply up to the owner meaning the first buy dose not MAKE them buy more.

tigirius.9014:

they have what I call a freemium system where a subscription gives players more however it’s not forced and you can’t tell the difference between a paying or non paying player

I’ve heard the word freemium being used since I started MMO-ing back in 2010. So Not specifically sure if you’re the only one calling things freemium :P

But anyway, freemium can be a bit tough to pull off since you need to make it attractive but if it’s too attractive those not paying start talking about Pay2Win. So what can ANet give players that is useful but not too useful, desirable but not too desirable…

tigirius.9014:

Jski.6180:

Well B2P is the older business model for video games. It works well over all and what will keep online and offline gaming alive for a long time.

B2P was a good system back when it first began, however it’s since become a system of misdirection having players pay for the game then pay for the game twice.

The games shop could use an overhaul as well, it’s been long overdue for a veterans program and the system of making purchasable items disappear doesn’t work very well. Can’t tell you the number of times I’ve wanted to buy gathering tools for the rest of my toons only to discover they disappeared when I actually had the money to do so.

It’s actually a sales strategy, because people can trade gold for gems (i.e. ANet makes no money) they purposefully have temporary item availability so that most players don’t have the time to grind gold and thus would be more likely to buy with real money. I’m a bit uncertain about this myself, since it leaves the shop feeling a bit empty or not particularly varied but I understand why…

This game offers a lot to veterans in the form of daily/monthly rewards and achievement points. You’re given free permanent and temporary boosts, gold, and even gems. You get laurels which you can convert into gold or spend on cosmetics or toys.

GW2 might not have a perfect model. But it does (roughly) follow the model outlined in the OP, while holding true to the core philosophy of the game: cooperative, pay-once/play-forever, and a cash shop that offers only cosmetic/playful benefits or minor boosters.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

This game offers a lot to veterans in the form of daily/monthly rewards and achievement points. You’re given free permanent and temporary boosts, gold, and even gems. You get laurels which you can convert into gold or spend on cosmetics or toys.

GW2 might not have a perfect model. But it does (roughly) follow the model outlined in the OP, while holding true to the core philosophy of the game: cooperative, pay-once/play-forever, and a cash shop that offers only cosmetic/playful benefits or minor boosters.

But those same benefits are offered to new players so it’s not really the same as veterans only benefits I do agree that the best part of the gem store is that it only offers cosmetic or slight boosts in game.. but then you can also convert the gems into gold to purchase the BiS gear too.

Not to mention the actual new playable content is mediocre at best which can be completed within an hour or so. So no, it’s not really play forever.. not if you want a game with substance.

cosmetic/playful seems to define this game currently exception of fractals/dungeons.. which would be just as boring/repetitive to veterans who have been here since beta.

Let me quote a few things here from the article.

In TERA’s case, nothing is off-limits (at least in terms of things that matter – only aesthetic things are released in a shop-only way).

You mean like how most new skins here are shop-only?

Interestingly enough, both Rift and TERA give daily gifts to their players to keep them coming back day after day. Both games come with these for all players, and with TERA there is another gift given each day for those that are on the Elite (subscription) status.

As interesting as it would be to get a free tchotchke every day I log on, like a random booster, the big thing to note is TERA’s optional “subscription”. Let me be the first to say no to that.

A big part of what plagues some F2P games is that you either throw money into the game or you can’t get the cool cash shop items. Both TERA and Rift handle this properly by allowing people to trade these items, and (in the case of Rift) even trade the credits directly so others can save up and buy the things they want most.

Well that’s somewhat true here as well with ticket skins and dyes from the gem shop. True it’s not everything but we do offer gold to gem conversion for gem shop purchases. Until very recently all my gem shop purchases came from gold converted to gems. Several thousand gems worth and I’m not a speed runner or flipper. I got 2 character slots, 3 bank slots, pick, royal pass, way too many keys, full makeover kit, a kite, the rescue pack and Jory’s dagger skin (well two before the wardrobe).

We have a lot of the same things with the exception of a VIP level like subscription and daily tchotchke.

you mean like VIP system China have. I’m sure many people will be outrageous if GW2 start to add that.

you also need to decide weather it should be possible to buy premium subscription with in game gold. Some of the games you can’t buy gems like in GW2.

layzoe.6035:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

This game offers a lot to veterans in the form of daily/monthly rewards and achievement points. You’re given free permanent and temporary boosts, gold, and even gems. You get laurels which you can convert into gold or spend on cosmetics or toys.

GW2 might not have a perfect model. But it does (roughly) follow the model outlined in the OP, while holding true to the core philosophy of the game: cooperative, pay-once/play-forever, and a cash shop that offers only cosmetic/playful benefits or minor boosters.

But those same benefits are offered to new players so it’s not really the same as veterans only benefits I do agree that the best part of the gem store is that it only offers cosmetic or slight boosts in game.. but then you can also convert the gems into gold to purchase the BiS gear too.

Not to mention the actual new playable content is mediocre at best which can be completed within an hour or so. So no, it’s not really play forever.. not if you want a game with substance.

I don’t understand. Do you expect a game company to offer rewards to someone who paid once in 2012, but not offer them eventually to someone who started in 2014? Plus, strictly speaking, GW2’s rewards aren’t ever available to new players; gem rewards aren’t offered until 5,000 AP, a milestone that should be sufficient to call the player a veteran.

I’m also confused by your definition of pay-once/play-forever. The fact that you (and others) might not relish the game today doesn’t change the fact that you aren’t paying. And you still won’t pay if/when ANet does add the content or features that encourages you to return. You paid once; you can play until they shut down the servers without spending another dime.

laokoko.7403:

you mean like VIP system China have. I’m sure many people will be outrageous if GW2 start to add that.

you also need to decide weather it should be possible to buy premium subscription with in game gold. Some of the games you can’t buy gems like in GW2.

Yes but that’s China and I’m opposed to VIP anything. If they offered an optional “subscription” I’m gone.

A “loyalty” or gem frequent buyer reward, like how Mr. Sparkles was handled that’s different. It won’t be popular with the gems for gold crowd but I don’t have a problem with that.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

layzoe.6035:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

This game offers a lot to veterans in the form of daily/monthly rewards and achievement points. You’re given free permanent and temporary boosts, gold, and even gems. You get laurels which you can convert into gold or spend on cosmetics or toys.

GW2 might not have a perfect model. But it does (roughly) follow the model outlined in the OP, while holding true to the core philosophy of the game: cooperative, pay-once/play-forever, and a cash shop that offers only cosmetic/playful benefits or minor boosters.

But those same benefits are offered to new players so it’s not really the same as veterans only benefits I do agree that the best part of the gem store is that it only offers cosmetic or slight boosts in game.. but then you can also convert the gems into gold to purchase the BiS gear too.

Not to mention the actual new playable content is mediocre at best which can be completed within an hour or so. So no, it’s not really play forever.. not if you want a game with substance.

I don’t understand. Do you expect a game company to offer rewards to someone who paid once in 2012, but not offer them eventually to someone who started in 2014? Plus, strictly speaking, GW2’s rewards aren’t ever available to new players; gem rewards aren’t offered until 5,000 AP, a milestone that should be sufficient to call the player a veteran.

I’m also confused by your definition of pay-once/play-forever. The fact that you (and others) might not relish the game today doesn’t change the fact that you aren’t paying. And you still won’t pay if/when ANet does add the content or features that encourages you to return. You paid once; you can play until they shut down the servers without spending another dime.

No, I was differentiating the veterans only rewards which would only be available to older players. The rewards you speak of are available to all players old and new should the player reach that milestone. Laurels again is available to all, not just the veterans so it is not an incentive. For example, I have a friend who started in beta but my AP is higher than his because my game time is more than his, I started playing last October. He is the veteran due to his start date.

I am quite certain that any game paid or not would have substantial updated content. No gamer likes to rehash the same content over and over. Even f2p offers that so to say that b2p resolves the game any obligation of offering updated content is moot. And update was part of the deal of purchasing the game. The content they are offering one is worse than some f2p updates…. So I don’t feel the game makers are on par with the agreements made their player base.

layzoe.6035:

No, I was differentiating the veterans only rewards which would only be available to older players. The rewards you speak of are available to all players old and new should the player reach that milestone. Laurels again is available to all, not just the veterans so it is not an incentive. For example, I have a friend who started in beta but my AP is higher than his because my game time is more than his, I started playing last October. He is the veteran due to his start date.

So everyone that started on release date is a veteran even if he only played maybe 2 hours and never spent any money beside playing the game ?

Sorry .. but in my eyes there are only 2 ways that would work, and that is either the number of days you paid for a subscription, that we don’t have here, or else the amount of real money you have spent in the cash-shop.

Personally as somebody who played for 5000 hours since headstart i can of course
also claim that i have “earned” to get masses of free stuff .. especially since i also
have maybe spent 30.000 gems .. however i say that i simply don’t have earned
anything because all i spent were 60€ real money for the box .. and thats all.

I am not advocating the veterans rewards. I am pointing out the rewards you gave as examples does not really fall under it since it is accessible to everyone. The discussion is how other games have used such rewards to lure veteran players back into the game.

Personally, I think the reward system is fine and happy with it. I mean the achievement chests and laurels and the rewards we are speaking of in this thread. The content and the reward scale however is sorely lacking but I guess that’s another discussion.