Guild Wars 2

Hi,

About five days ago I crafted a Destroyer Shield and put it on the TP. I did this for two reasons; there weren’t any, I had some of the mats, it’s very rare and prestigious and as a result someone must be interested in it. This isn’t the first time i’ve crafted a prestige item for sale.

The reality is this; with so many statistically identical items accessible to players there is no interest, at all, in these crafted prestige items. Dungeon weapons and armor look great, carry the same stats, and can be acquired with relative ease.

Add to this the fact that the TP still doesn’t have a preview feature very few people are willing to take a chance on an expensive item. Keep in mind that for the majority of your player base Gold is the hardest resource to get, and it’s the only resource that is used in almost every facet of the game.

Combine that with the fact that the TP is punishing to sellers who need to relist several times to find a suitable price-point.

Combine that with the taxes. The TP is flooded with exotics acquired via RNG in the Forge. etc etc etc.

All of this leads us to a situation where buyers cannot buy with confidence, sellers cannot test the market and prestige items carry no value in light of all the other, equally polished items.

There is no incentive to be a high-level crafter focusing on hard to craft items. It’s just not financially viable.

Suggestions;
Refund TP fees if the seller cancels the item.

Get the preview feature implemented. It’s a no brainer and is the one feature that should have been there at launch.

Consider a feature that allows a crafter to “uncraft” their crafted level 80 exotic items for a fee. At this point i’d rather have the mats back that bother with selling items.

Consider that the stance of “all items carry the same stat value” design mantra is hurting this game in suitble, unusual ways. It wasn’t as bad in GW1, but in this game there are SO many options for acquiring nice looking, stat heavy gear people aren’t interested in the prestige items. I’m not suggesting that these items should be statisically better, but you guys are smart, and this is a damaging.

Consider adding the facility for players to buy things from the TP for (very large amounts of) Karma, which is translated to gold for the seller at a set rate.

How do others view this? Are there any other crafters out there experiencing the same issues as me?

I’d love to know Anets thoughts on the current crafting->TP economy, because for me it just isn’t quite working.

Cheers.

Adding the preview feature is the only part of your post that I agree with.

Jestunhi.7429:

Adding the preview feature is the only part of your post that I agree with.

Your post is entirely useless without explaining why you disagree with the other points.

Contribute or hush. If you feel these considerations would have a detrimental impact on the game/economy/trade post, explain why.

Other than the preview feature, your other suggestions are bad.

Refunding listing fees would make it much easier for the pros to manipulate the market.

From what I can tell your reasons for crafting that item were flawed. You should have crafted it because YOU wanted it for yourself OR you should have studied the demand and likely selling price before crafting it.

Instead you gambled with no research and are angry because it didn’t sell at a price you felt was reasonable. If it really was that rare list it at your desired price and forget about it. It may sell one week or one month from your list date. There is no expiration date.

There are hundreds if not thousands of crafted items that sell for well below mat costs.

NinjaKnight.1340:

Other than the preview feature, your other suggestions are bad.

Refunding listing fees would make it much easier for the pros to manipulate the market.

From what I can tell your reasons for crafting that item were flawed. You should have crafted it because YOU wanted it for yourself OR you should have studied the demand and likely selling price before crafting it.

Instead you gambled with no research and are angry because it didn’t sell at a price you felt was reasonable. If it really was that rare list it at your desired price and forget about it. It may sell one week or one month from your list date. There is no expiration date.

Refunding listing fees could be delayed, something that only happens after an amount of time. Or a feature could be added that allows you to adjust the price of your item for a small fee, or after X amount of time and only if certain criteria is met (for example, yours is the only item). Regardless, yes, they would need to consider how it could be abused, but the current implementation does NOT enable people to test the market with rare items.

As for why; I’ll set the criteria on why I crafted it. Ultimately these items are rare, and there’s only so much research you can do. Sometimes the best research is retrospective… and this thread is a result of that. This also isn’t the first item i’ve crafted. I’d also like the refute the idea that i’m somehow angry; I’m not.

NinjaKnight.1340:

There are hundreds if not thousands of crafted items that sell for well below mat costs.

And that, right there, is a problem in a crafted economy. You need to consider the difference between mat costs (i.e the value of the components you’ve farmed to craft the item, leading to profit on something like a Pearl Greatsword) and the costs of buying mats you can’t realistically farm yourself (such as the huge number of rare mats needed to craft a prestige item).

Regardless of your take on my particular scenario, the fact that gear is so accessible and varied makes prestige gear unfulfilling and unrewarding as a crafter. Not everyone just wants to pump out Pearl Greatswords on a daily basis, you know what I mean?

Parthis.2091:

There is no incentive to be a high-level crafter focusing on hard to craft items. It’s just not financially viable.

Suppose the concept of the devs for this game is that the only incentive they WANT to have in place for crafting is an alternative way of leveling for people who enjoy that, and as a roleplaying venue for people who want to make their own gear? Perhaps they don’t intend for people to earn money crafting without quite a bit of work, perhaps even more work then earning it just by beating stuff up in the game?

The only way to make it easy for a crafter to make money is if people can’t get adequate gear from just playing the game, i.e. from drops and such. That helps the crafter, but hurts the person who doesn’t want to either learn to craft or use the TP. Whether or not its correct none of us know without the data, the devs seem to be betting there are more of the latter player then the former.

I do agree with you and the others that a preview feature would help a lot, though, since looks are the only differentiating feature between high end items selling unique items like what you made will only be possible with that, or if you get lucky and that buyer saw it on someone else or a website and liked it. And its not like you can equip it and decide you don’t like it, since it soulbinds.

I share your concern that crafting is not going to be a viable method of making money but I don’t think your options will fix things.

First of, I agree that having a preview feature would be great, I hope they add that soon. However, there has to be some sort of risk involved with selling which is why I don’t believe Anet will introduce any sort of refund or “uncraft” option. They are also against any way of transforming karma into gold, so that option is out.

Honestly I think it is a matter of just waiting it out. When people first get to 80 they want to get their exotics as fast as possible so I’m not sue how many people actually care about the look at first. However, once they have their exotics, there isn’t anything better to aim for stat-wise. At this point I believe people will start to care more about getting a specific look from their armor so hopefully this will provide a better market for people that can craft those rare pieces.

How long it takes for this to happen? I have no idea, but I wouldn’t give up hope just yet, just keep an eye on the TP.

Kozai.8269:

Parthis.2091:

There is no incentive to be a high-level crafter focusing on hard to craft items. It’s just not financially viable.

Suppose the concept of the devs for this game is that the only incentive they WANT to have in place for crafting is an alternative way of leveling for people who enjoy that, and as a roleplaying venue for people who want to make their own gear? Perhaps they don’t intend for people to earn money crafting without quite a bit of work, perhaps even more work then earning it just by beating stuff up in the game?

The only way to make it easy for a crafter to make money is if people can’t get adequate gear from just playing the game, i.e. from drops and such. That helps the crafter, but hurts the person who doesn’t want to either learn to craft or use the TP. Whether or not its correct none of us know without the data, the devs seem to be betting there are more of the latter player then the former.

I do agree with you and the others that a preview feature would help a lot, though, since looks are the only differentiating feature between high end items selling unique items like what you made will only be possible with that, or if you get lucky and that buyer saw it on someone else or a website and liked it. And its not like you can equip it and decide you don’t like it, since it soulbinds.

Yeah, I had considered that Anet perhaps view the crafting system more as a character progression tool and as a way of making sure there’s an ample supply of bare-bones, visually questionable gear for people to acquire quickly. The collateral of that approach is the situation i’m trying (and perhaps failing?) to describe; rare crafted gear that isn’t just the standard fare isn’t selling very well or appealing enough to be desirable. TP Preview may go some way to rectify that.

What steered me away from that opinion is simply the fact that these items and discoveries DO exist and they produce Bind on Use items. If these items were intended solely for character progression and as a reward to committed crafters, making them BoP for bragging rights would make some sense.

Regardless, i’d really love to hear Anet’s thoughts on the current crafting economy, whether it’s working as they intended, and whether they see any failings with the current system, particularly around these kind of higher “quality” recipes.

They need to refund your deposit after 1 day at the very least. I have 70g stuck on the TP because of this crap. The problem is, the mats he used to create the shield could fall and the shields value depends on the crafting mats.
If i unlist and relish it’ll be undercut within 10min, your sale window is so small.
The bots who farm have automated TP selling built in and yeh, it undercuts by 1c, so it doesn’t matter how much much you list it for it’ll be undercut and yeh you can get some cheap stuff doing this It’s risky tho but i’m from aus so mainly just bots on lol.

Not that many people have defined what their “look” or build is so is not that your shield does not appeal to anyone because everyone can make it, its because most of the player base doesn’t even know that skin exists.

I just decided my necro look yesterday and it turned out to be a level 35 armor from a karma vendor and I’ve been 80 for 3 weeks now.

Fine… you want a breakdown?

Parthis.2091:

Refund TP fees if the seller cancels the item.

That fee is the main reason why prices stay as stable as they have. Imagine if every time someone undercut every single sell order above that price were cancelled and reposted at an even lower price! The reason this doesn;t happen right now (aside from not all of those players being online and monitoring the TP 24/7) is because it costs them money each time they cancel an order.

Get the preview feature implemented. It’s a no brainer and is the one feature that should have been there at launch.

Yes please!

Consider a feature that allows a crafter to “uncraft” their crafted level 80 exotic items for a fee. At this point i’d rather have the mats back that bother with selling items.

For what purpose? Why would this be a good idea? A suggestion with no justification is a worthless as disagreeing and not explaining why.

If you didn’t want that lvl 80 exotic you shouldn’t have crafted it. Take some responsibility for your actions.

Consider that the stance of “all items carry the same stat value” design mantra is hurting this game in suitble, unusual ways. It wasn’t as bad in GW1, but in this game there are SO many options for acquiring nice looking, stat heavy gear people aren’t interested in the prestige items. I’m not suggesting that these items should be statisically better, but you guys are smart, and this is a damaging.

One of the best things about GW2 over the generic MMO is that it’s not all about the huge farm to get the gear with the best stats so you can win matches not by skill but by having played longer.

Instead roughly all of the 80’s have exotic gear with the same stat weights.

Consider adding the facility for players to buy things from the TP for (very large amounts of) Karma, which is translated to gold for the seller at a set rate.

Again, why? You provide absolutely zero justification or explanation for your suggestions but complain when people don’t take the time to explain why they disagree? I don’t see anything in your entire post which would be solved or improved by karma being a currency usable on the TP.

Jestunhi.7429:

Fine… you want a breakdown?

That fee is the main reason why prices stay as stable as they have. Imagine if every time someone undercut every single sell order above that price were cancelled and reposted at an even lower price! The reason this doesn;t happen right now (aside from not all of those players being online and monitoring the TP 24/7) is because it costs them money each time they cancel an order.

I understand why it currently doesn’t refund the fee, but my complaint isn’t about fast moving items. The suggestion doesn’t have to be taken literally. I’ve not proposed the entirety of an implementation; as it is now that item will sit on the TP until some one buys it, or I finally accept the loss of the a few gold. There are obviously limitations that Anet could apply to a system; perhaps removing after a week would refund, or making the item ‘unlistable’ for 24hrs, or only refunding the cost if you’re the only item, “no sale, no fee after 1 week”, etc etc.

Jestunhi.7429:

Yes please!

Yay! This one is hard to argue

Jestunhi.7429:

Consider a feature that allows a crafter to “uncraft” their crafted level 80 exotic items for a fee. At this point i’d rather have the mats back that bother with selling items.

For what purpose? Why would this be a good idea? A suggestion with no justification is a worthless as disagreeing and not explaining why.

If you didn’t want that lvl 80 exotic you shouldn’t have crafted it. Take some responsibility for your actions.

The argument that “you don’t want it, don’t craft it” is fundamentally flawed; the crafting economy is the subject of this thread, without people crafting items it dies. You’re focusing on the one item I used as an example while ignoring the many, many other items listed that won’t sell.

Regardless providing a way of getting some of the mats back would encourage people to craft, offer and then recycle if they want to try and craft and offer something else. In a game with an entire salvaging system the idea of breaking down items for mats isn’t alien; extending that to the items you craft and providing a way of getting back some of the very rare mats might encourage more diversity on the TP and less “fear” in crafters to commit large sums of materials and gold.

Jestunhi.7429:

Consider that the stance of “all items carry the same stat value” design mantra is hurting this game in suitble, unusual ways. It wasn’t as bad in GW1, but in this game there are SO many options for acquiring nice looking, stat heavy gear people aren’t interested in the prestige items. I’m not suggesting that these items should be statisically better, but you guys are smart, and this is a damaging.

One of the best things about GW2 over the generic MMO is that it’s not all about the huge farm to get the gear with the best stats so you can win matches not by skill but by having played longer.

Instead roughly all of the 80’s have exotic gear with the same stat weights.

I agree, and I never said the gearing system was bad, I said that prestige items are considerably less appealing as a result and that has an impact on the economy. There are things they could do to make prestige items more desirable while maintaining the “no statistical combat advantage” mantra… there are certainly a boatload of “non combat, non stat” advantages that prestige items could carry.

Jestunhi.7429:

Consider adding the facility for players to buy things from the TP for (very large amounts of) Karma, which is translated to gold for the seller at a set rate.

Again, why? You provide absolutely zero justification or explanation for your suggestions but complain when people don’t take the time to explain why they disagree? I don’t see anything in your entire post which would be solved or improved by karma being a currency usable on the TP.

The justification is further up my post; you’re quoting out of context.

We’re taking about prestige items. Buyers already have their stats. Gold is a resource that is required in almost every facet of this game. Karma already has a precedent as being used as a way of acquiring gear.

At “end-game”, once geared, Karma becomes a useless resource.

Setting a (high) Karma price for gear on the TP, which translates into gold for the seller, would encourage people to try out prestige gear, experiment more, etc etc.

Again, non of these suggestions are made as absolute, finalised proposals… they’re ideas, which is why I used the word “Consider” liberally. You don’t like them, fine, no worries. Personally, as it stands, the crafting system isn’t financially worthwhile past the basics which is IMHO rather sad.

Parthis.2091:

I understand why it currently doesn’t refund the fee, but my complaint isn’t about fast moving items. The suggestion doesn’t have to be taken literally. I’ve not proposed the entirety of an implementation; as it is now that item will sit on the TP until some one buys it, or I finally accept the loss of the a few gold. There are obviously limitations that Anet could apply to a system; perhaps removing after a week would refund, or making the item ‘unlistable’ for 24hrs, or only refunding the cost if you’re the only item, “no sale, no fee after 1 week”, etc etc.

I still don;t see why it would be an improvement though.

Why is it better to get the fee back? Just trying to work around the disadvantages doesn’t work unless there are advantages too. Otherwise it’s just a load of work to not improve things.

The argument that “you don’t want it, don’t craft it” is fundamentally flawed; the crafting economy is the subject of this thread, without people crafting items it dies. You’re focusing on the one item I used as an example while ignoring the many, many other items listed that won’t sell.

Perhaps I should have said “if you don’t want it, and don’t know there’s a market for it, why did you craft it”?

And of course there are items which are not going to sell well on the TP. People don’t demand every item equally and not every item is supplied equally. Most items would be better vendored. The TP is for selling items which you believe are valued above that of the vendor price, not for selling everything.

Regardless providing a way of getting some of the mats back would encourage people to craft, offer and then recycle if they want to try and craft and offer something else. In a game with an entire salvaging system the idea of breaking down items for mats isn’t alien; extending that to the items you craft and providing a way of getting back some of the very rare mats might encourage more diversity on the TP and less “fear” in crafters to commit large sums of materials and gold.

Why do people need to be encouraged to craft? One of your big complaints is that the crafted items are over-supplied and under-demanded!

And do salvage kits not work on crafted items? I know you don’t get every single component back, but as far as I can see there’s no reason why you should.

I agree, and I never said the gearing system was bad, I said that prestige items are considerably less appealing as a result and that has an impact on the economy. There are things they could do to make prestige items more desirable while maintaining the “no statistical combat advantage” mantra… there are certainly a boatload of “non combat, non stat” advantages that prestige items could carry.

Shouldn’t they carry… prestige?

Look at how much top end weapons sell for, for nothing more than their model / particle effect. There’s nothing stopping desired items for selling more than other items with the same stats. Sounds like you just chose an item that has no demand.

The justification is further up my post; you’re quoting out of context.

I just re-read, it’s not. But it is below.

We’re taking about prestige items. Buyers already have their stats. Gold is a resource that is required in almost every facet of this game. Karma already has a precedent as being used as a way of acquiring gear.

At “end-game”, once geared, Karma becomes a useless resource.

Setting a (high) Karma price for gear on the TP, which translates into gold for the seller, would encourage people to try out prestige gear, experiment more, etc etc.

The only advantage I see here is a karma sink. Personally I’ve not got to end game yet but if what you are saying is true you may have a point on this one.

Again, non of these suggestions are made as absolute, finalised proposals… they’re ideas, which is why I used the word “Consider” liberally. You don’t like them, fine, no worries. Personally, as it stands, the crafting system isn’t financially worthwhile past the basics which is IMHO rather sad.

Part of it comes from the single TP serving all servers.

But tbh I like that, although it does mean the americans undercut me while I sleep!

But obviously the supply / demand would vastly change if it weren’t just a single TP.

The tax for placing the Item is required…I did not read any of the wall of text above me, but…If there no tax upon placing and item, and it was removed when u canceled the sale, you think everyone would be pulling their item out and putting it back in below the guy who undercut them?…Silly idea…

It goes without saying that the Preview needs to be fixed; I can’t believe this is still broken.

The fees should also be changed so that there’s only a fee charged if the item is actually sold. If the broker isn’t doing his job and finding a buyer, why should he be paid? And no Aura it’s not a silly idea, there are games like EQ2 with a very healthy broker system where any item can be displayed for any period without cost.

If you bothered to read any you’d know you can’t remove the item straight away and relist, the item has to stay on the TP for 1 day before it can be removed.

I have 3 lvl 400 hunder crafters and understand that their is essentially no attractive market for anything.

This is good. Its more important that PVP players be able to equip themselves easily than than it is that we make a relative few crafters rich.

Consider adding the facility for players to buy things from the TP for (very large amounts of) Karma, which is translated to gold for the seller at a set rate.

Again, why? You provide absolutely zero justification or explanation for your suggestions but complain when people don’t take the time to explain why they disagree? I don’t see anything in your entire post which would be solved or improved by karma being a currency usable on the TP.[/quote]

The karma option would be useful because then people wouldnt have to spend gold on gear, and instead can get that specific skin with a different method (Which fits with Anets goals) and the seller still gets money. He said Very large amounts of karma, so that way, it isnt easy to save up enough to get the gear, and it will take a considerable amount of crafting. It is a way for people to want to get karma other than just the Orr sets.