Guild Wars 2

Ok so where to even start I’ve seen so many things people do on the TP that just make me face-palm… Its either the fact people cant do math or they just don’t know so i am here to help.

1. Do not undercut. There literally is no point to undercutting. (If your saying what!!! at this point you didn’t do you’re homework)

Gw2 does not use a traditional auction house they use a stack system which means first in at a price point is last out. So if there is 1 seller for “buttered biscuit’s of justice” at 15c each if you put up 10 more at the same price point yours will sell first so why would you put yours up for less….

2. Vendor value + 1c (If i find out who started this i will follow them around in pvp all day…) if something sells to the vendor for 50c

Example one sell it to vendor net gain = 50c

Sell it on tp for 51c
transaction fee is 2.5c
final sale cut is 5.1c
you make 44c (i believe fees always round down)

great loss of 6c…. (if someone even buys the item)

Thats all for now there are a few other things but that just gets in to speculation both of these examples are things you should never do because your losing money….

Actually, your first comment about undercutting is untrue. It has already been made clear that the trading post doesn’t use the “last in first out” structure. Here is a link to the thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Last-in-First-out-Please-tell-me-the-TP/first#post104484

owned.

let the undercutting continues!!! Cheers!

Fisting Kittens.5260:

Actually, your first comment about undercutting is untrue. It has already been made clear that the trading post doesn’t use the “last in first out” structure. Here is a link to the thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Last-in-First-out-Please-tell-me-the-TP/first#post104484

I didn’t even bother looking at this link or care if it was Anet who said it. Go to the trading post and put 100 items (ore is good) for sale at 1c cheaper than the lowest price. Constantly refresh and you will see other people put items up at the same amount and the total number of items for sale at that price will increase (remember you put them up first). Then watch the numbers decrease and the items get sold and you will not see one of your items sell until it reaches lower than 101.

I know this cause just yesterday I did this and would watch myself get undercut by people putting ore up at the same price and mine were never sold. I eventually had to lower the price by 1c to undercut them and the cycle continued.

Yep, goods listed at the same price follow a LIFO approach. If you’re the first to post at that price, pray your order sells out before someone else jumps on. Had this exact thing happen to me. Also seems to affect buy orders the same way. I put an order up for 250 of an item at 1c over the top buyer, had 30 sold to me, then someone else put up another 250 order at my price and I didn’t see any more until his entire order had been filled.

Well this LIFO explains a lot. I have items I put in when the TP very first went up that hasn’t sold yet.

anyone know if relisting it at a higher value might help with that? or would all the ones that are cheapest have to sell first before they’d see yours?

and, I’ve had problems with selling to custom orders. when they wanna buy a bunch of something for 1 or 2c. the TP tells me that i can’t sell something for less than vendor price.

Revenant.2691:

Yep, goods listed at the same price follow a LIFO approach. If you’re the first to post at that price, pray your order sells out before someone else jumps on. Had this exact thing happen to me. Also seems to affect buy orders the same way. I put an order up for 250 of an item at 1c over the top buyer, had 30 sold to me, then someone else put up another 250 order at my price and I didn’t see any more until his entire order had been filled.

At least you can remove and relist buy order without losing money

Um…forgive me if I am stating the obvious, but this is a pretty HUGE bug!

So in order to sell a commodity right away you just have to list in ~50 increments @ the market price over and over until it’s all sold. If you post in bulk, you won’t sell ANYTHING unless everyone who lists after you sells first.

This is a pretty major oversight. I can’t believe people haven’t jumped all over this.

Well, I’ve been using the TP dozens of times a day and I only noticed it for myself this morning because of the volume I was trading in and the high turnover on that particular commodity. I was sitting there for half an hour wondering why my order wasn’t getting filled, when I deliberately overbid to get priority. Noticed that the other order was there as well, and saw the net buy order getting filled, but none of it was coming to me. I just figured it was a display bug at first and that there was actually someone outbidding me I couldn’t see, but then the second the total order dropped to 220 my order started filling again. But what it basically means is that you’ve got the same chance of getting your order filled if you post it at the current highest bid as you would for upping the ante one copper, because anyone matching your price in either case would immediately supersede you.

Would be even worse for sell orders because, as was said, you’d then risk losing your deposit if someone dumped a 250-stack onto the market at “match highest seller,” exactly the same as if they’d under-bid you. WTB FIFO model, or at least random selection.

Ya regardless of the way it is intended to be i can tell u i have been selling in bulk and it is last in first out… 100% of the time i dont undercut i sell first so until they change it then yes it is a last in first out system.

LIFO is happening.

It is a bug.

It is being fixed.

Now that the fires are out, let’s roast some marshmallows over the coals.

Fryman.6934:

Um…forgive me if I am stating the obvious, but this is a pretty HUGE bug!

So in order to sell a commodity right away you just have to list in ~50 increments @ the market price over and over until it’s all sold. If you post in bulk, you won’t sell ANYTHING unless everyone who lists after you sells first.

This is a pretty major oversight. I can’t believe people haven’t jumped all over this.

It sucks but it’s being fixed so I’m not going to make a stink about it. I’m having fun leveling my ranger. :o)

Sure, that’s nice. I’m having fun too!

But it seriously borks competition and thus the economy. If all the buyers knew about this, they would never bid up an item. Just offer the current price and your order gets filled first. Then it’s just a game of who’s at their screen at the time. Buyers cancelling & re-listing the same bid price until it gets filled. If an actual stock market had this bug, they’d shut it down right quick!

I don’t think people realize what impact this bug could have. Or even what impact it may currently be having. It might explain why bid prices for alot of things seem artificial.

They need to be fixing this bug, like yesterday.

Re-listing loses u 5% and in my opinion isnt worth it even if 100 people undercut u sooner or later demand will catch up and youll get paid

I like LIFO. It penalizes you if you are asking for a price that is on the upper end of the value range, if you undercut your commodity will be more attractive and sell faster, and have less competition as fewer people will want to sell a your same lower price. It also means that if you sell at a value that induces a state where supply is building and demand is lessened, that you will have to wait for that to change before your commodity sells. It’s a good system imo.

Real markets don’t use LIFO, for obvious reasons. The same reasons why GW2 TP should not use LIFO either.

Well, I’ve been using the TP dozens of times a day and I only noticed it for myself this morning because of the volume I was trading in and the high turnover on that particular commodity. I was sitting there for half an hour wondering why my order wasn’t getting filled, when I deliberately overbid to get priority. Noticed that the other order was there as well, and saw the net buy order getting filled, but none of it was coming to me. I just figured it was a display bug at first and that there was actually someone outbidding me I couldn’t see, but then the second the total order dropped to 220 my order started filling again. But what it basically means is that you’ve got the same chance of getting your order filled if you post it at the current highest bid as you would for upping the ante one copper, because anyone matching your price in either case would immediately supersede you.

Would be even worse for sell orders because, as was said, you’d then risk losing your deposit if someone dumped a 250-stack onto the market at “match highest seller,” exactly the same as if they’d under-bid you. WTB FIFO model, or at least random selection.

I’ve noticed that long ago. There also some funny things happening to 250 stacks
Actually, i’d prefer random selection.

BGood.2951:

If your saying what!!! at this point you didn’t do you’re homework

Looks like you didn’t do your English homework. But aside from that…

Gw2 does not use a traditional auction house they use a stack system which means first in at a price point is last out.

These are two different things. A stack is last in, first out (LIFO). Think of it like a stack of plates. The last one you put on top is the first one you’d pick up again. A first in, first out (FIFO) system is a queue. Just like a queue at the post office, the first one to get there is the first one who is going to be able to buy stamps.

The auction house should be a FIFO system. But apparently it is not, which sounds like it’s already being addressed. In any case, though, this doesn’t invalidate undercutting, because the FIFO/LIFO system is only applicable for a given price point.

Let’s say I put up a stack of ore, priced at 20 copper each piece. No matter whether the auction house is FIFO or LIFO, if someone else comes along and lists a stack of ore at 19 copper each piece, they’re going to sell their ore first. Why? Because it’s listed at the top of the available listings, and people are simply going to buy the cheapest ore they can. If forty thousand other people also list their ore at 19 copper each piece, I’m never going to sell my ore.

Why don’t prices for ore drop to vendor + 1 copper, like many of the armor and weapons listed? Because the demand for ore is high enough to keep the price up. Using my above example, if I list a stack at 20 copper each, and one person comes along and lists a stack at 19 copper each… well it’s likely that there is enough demand to buy both stacks. So their ore sells. My ore sells. The price remains (more or less) constant.

I’ve already written too much, but to address your second point — people see the trading post anywhere as a convenience to empty their bags. “I can sell to the TP from inside this cave, don’t even have to find a vendor, yay!” Personal experience is that even with just 10 slot bags (and no extra bag slots purchased from the gem store), I can find a vendor easily enough. Especially with depositing collectibles and salvage kits. But until the common perception falls into line with that, you’re speaking to empty air. People don’t mind the loss when they see a perceived benefit to convenience.

Edit to add: Note that I am no economist, so if I’ve mucked up the ideas of supply and demand, please don’t hesitate to correct me.

@Nkuvu.2570
Nice example with copper. It doesn’t take an economist to understand the basics of supply/demand.

I think that things people need to know about TP is that there is a hidden sales tax, and understand the law of supply & demand. That’s it.

Undercutting is a natural way of how market works. It isn’t right or wrong. It’s just how urgently I want to sell my items at a reduced profit…not loss. Do not undercut simple means whoever that first post the sell order determines the price, and everyone else should follow that and the price of an item will remain static forever…why would we need a market for that?

I can understand why people fear competition…but the market is competitive, no changing that. If you can’t take it…I don’t recommend playing the market.