Guild Wars 2

The Dragon Bash festival introduced rich dragon coffers into the trading post which can contain with a low chance a “Recipe: Dragon’s Revelry Starcake” (+270 mixed stats; +5% critical damage; +20% magic find; +10% experience points). This recipe is account bound and provides the highest allround boosts in the game. This means you are forced to use your gems but even on buying 25 chests with 2000 gems you can still get no recipe.

Other players could say that the boosts are not worth it: It doesn’t matter how much higher the stats are because it is definitely a playful advantage. Also I’m sure there are enough players that would be happy to use these boost.

But other players could also say that you can buy the food directly at the trading post: Items on the trading post are commonly more expensive than making it yourself and there is no warranty that players are providing them all the time in the trading post.

but the boosts are optional.

and does not guarantee a win.

Oh boy. Here we go with this again.

It’s not P2W. Simply for this fact. It’s a recipe. You are not outright buying better stats, an advantage, or anything like that. You are buying the means to make an item that anyone can use. And it is a chance that you’ll even get it.

So sure, you can waste away hundreds of dollars trying to get the recipe, or you can spend a few silver to buy the Starcake from the TP. And the cost of making the consumable is way more expensive than the cost to buy the consumable straight up.

So in actuality, you’ll be losing money. Unless of course you have a massive overstock of those materials on hand, then you can actually make money.

But in the end, it is not P2W. You are not buying stats that no one else can get or an advantage over other players. The recipe may be account bound, but the item itself is not. Thus anyone can use it.

I got the recipe in the mail… weird.

Well, are Superior Runes of Divinity P2W then? It’s incredibly expensive, and provides an all-around stat boost comparable to this food buff.

Sorry, I’m new to this pay2win thing.

Is this the part where I’m suppose to go cry in the corner because my char is now useless without that food and will never be viable without it, much less able to compete against others that DO use it?

Ursan.7846:

Well, are Superior Runes of Divinity P2W then? It’s incredibly expensive, and provides an all-around stat boost comparable to this food buff.

You don’t buy Runes from the gem store do you? No. So thus, they are not P2W. P2W means you are paying real money to gain an advantage over other players that don’t pay real money.

Besides, pay to win what? There is so little vertical progression in this game, that you’re not really winning anything even if it WERE pay to win. Also, I’m pretty sure you need to be at 80 to even use the food in the first place, so you’re already kind of in the “winning” seat.

But even more to the point, you don’t have to pay for the food with real money anyway. You can buy a CHANCE at finding a recipe with gems, again, which you can use in-game gold converted to gems for, or you can buy the food directly from the TP, which you can use in-game money for. So there’s no P2W issue here.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Ursan.7846:

Well, are Superior Runes of Divinity P2W then? It’s incredibly expensive, and provides an all-around stat boost comparable to this food buff.

You don’t buy Runes from the gem store do you? No. So thus, they are not P2W. P2W means you are paying real money to gain an advantage over other players that don’t pay real money.

Cash -> Gems -> Gold -> Runes

A bit more round-about but still same effect

Edit – although by that same argument Gold -> Gems -> Coffers -> Food.
Dear god, everyone can p2w! All us broke people are doomed! Doomed I tell you! DOOMED!
~puts on tin-foil hat &runs away~

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Ursan.7846:

Well, are Superior Runes of Divinity P2W then? It’s incredibly expensive, and provides an all-around stat boost comparable to this food buff.

You don’t buy Runes from the gem store do you? No. So thus, they are not P2W. P2W means you are paying real money to gain an advantage over other players that don’t pay real money.

And do you know how many people use these starcakes? NOBODY. If you’re farming, slaying potions and omnom bars. In WVW, it’s normally health on kill food + maintenance oil, pvp you can’t use foods or oils.

OP, stop whining.

OP how in the hell are the Dragon’s Revelry Starcake P2W if you cant buy them with gems
If you are lucky you get the recipe. So lets say you are lucky and you get the recipe. Now can you eat the recipe ?

Dedlaw.9130:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Ursan.7846:

Well, are Superior Runes of Divinity P2W then? It’s incredibly expensive, and provides an all-around stat boost comparable to this food buff.

You don’t buy Runes from the gem store do you? No. So thus, they are not P2W. P2W means you are paying real money to gain an advantage over other players that don’t pay real money.

Cash -> Gems -> Gold -> Runes

A bit more round-about but still same effect

Well you can use gold ingame to buy the runes as well without spending a single dime. So it’s not much different than someone who paid money to exchange for gold.

What I am meaning by my response, is being able to pay money to get an advantage. As in, the only way you are able to have an advantage is by spending real money.

For instance, if there was no gem to gold feature, and they put higher stat gear in the gem store, then you would be paying for an advantage. Since there is no way ingame to get that gear, except by spending real money, then it would be considered P2W.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

IF there was no gem to gold feature

Big “if” right there.

There IS a gem store, so anyone can have access to it, hence not P2W

Dedlaw.9130:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

IF there was no gem to gold feature

Big “if” right there.

There IS a gem store, so anyone can have access to it, hence not P2W

Oh I know it’s not P2W in the least. I was just clarifying and giving an example. As you can see from my first post, I don’t agree with the OP.

I don’t think the Trading Post is P2W. If there was going to be anything P2W in-game, I would assume it would be in the Gem store. Not sure what you would win, of course, but that’s another matter.

colesy.8490:

And do you know how many people use these starcakes? NOBODY.

This.

Despite the “All stat love” Anet is having lately, it doens’t change the fact that it’s garbage.

Where’s the Win (of P2W) when the results is this crappy food nobody wants.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Dedlaw.9130:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

IF there was no gem to gold feature

Big “if” right there.

There IS a gem store, so anyone can have access to it, hence not P2W

Oh I know it’s not P2W in the least. I was just clarifying and giving an example. As you can see from my first post, I don’t agree with the OP.

Ah, my mistake. Completely misunderstood your point ^^

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

but the boosts are optional.

and does not guarantee a win.

nobody cares

pullnointer.1476:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

but the boosts are optional.

and does not guarantee a win.

nobody cares

Actually it’s the point of the thread.

At least know what the hell you’re on about if you’re going to be arrogant.

You guys got trolled.

colesy.8490:

pullnointer.1476:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

but the boosts are optional.

and does not guarantee a win.

nobody cares

Actually it’s the point of the thread.

At least know what the hell you’re on about if you’re going to be arrogant.

having exotic armor over white is optional too

XD

I have played P2W games, and I must say the OP has no clue what P2W means.

AntiGw.9367:

I have played P2W games, and I must say the OP has no clue what P2W means.

^This

Go play Flyff or Diablo 3 if you want to really see what p2w means.

is it selling well? i guess it’s a good thing i bought a rich coffer the first day and got the recipe in the mail

It’s funny how a food nobody ever uses is considered P2W

Far from Pay 2 Win. Considering the fact that those small boosts are almost negligible and if you are using that food in WvW, you are not going to perform any better against the guy who kicked your butt last time.

While I want this food badly. (I just want all the recipes) I don’t see how it’s pay to win. Giving you reduced all stats is not always better than focused on a few stats.

ex. If you want the most MF from food, than this isn’t it.

I bought rich coffers after this time period. Only 10. I got mostly taffy and some fireworks. Sucks but it’s RNG and I was smart enough to stop at 10. I just didn’t win this time.

I do wish it was sellable.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Ursan.7846:

Well, are Superior Runes of Divinity P2W then? It’s incredibly expensive, and provides an all-around stat boost comparable to this food buff.

You don’t buy Runes from the gem store do you? No. So thus, they are not P2W. P2W means you are paying real money to gain an advantage over other players that don’t pay real money.

Yes, and you can buy the food from the trading post without a recipe. What’s the difference?

“The Tome of Knowledge has been added as a rare drop from Black Lion Chests. Using the Tome of Knowledge will grant the character one level and all associated benefits. If a level 80 character uses the tome, they will gain a skill point.”

yep now is pay to win.

Going to re-post this from another thread.

To try to equate P2AchievePersonalGoals to P2W is to forget the context in which why the term P2W has such a negative connotation. P2W is derided because of purchasable tools which confer a very clear statistical, mechanical, and functional advantage over competition, which negatively impacts the gameplay of others who do not have access.

Personal Goals of other people do not affect you in any way. Whether I hit 80 or not hit 80, would it affect you? Whether that guy has a rare mini or not, would it affect your gameplay? In competitive games, (from where the term spawned) this is important because winning means someone else losing. Many personal goals though set by players have none of that effect. If my personal goal is to “get a mini karka,” will my act of paying for it affect anyone negatively?

In addition, of course money should confer an “advantage” to a paying player. If not, why would anyone spend money on video game cash shops? But then this statement completely misses the point of P2W: does this “advantage” given to a player affect others negatively? (Mainly through competitive gameplay types?)

Again, the whole point if of course moot because of the fact that you can purchase Gems with Gold.

lekyii.9856:

“The Tome of Knowledge has been added as a rare drop from Black Lion Chests. Using the Tome of Knowledge will grant the character one level and all associated benefits. If a level 80 character uses the tome, they will gain a skill point.”

yep now is pay to win.

The Dragon Cake is awfully close to pay-to-win, but the Tome of Knowledge is definitely not. It’s no different from buying gold with gems, and then using that gold to level a crafting profession. In fact it’s less pay to win than that, because the Dragon Cake recipe is not a guaranteed drop.

Mainly through competitive gameplay types?

Well the magic find boost gets the RNG purchaser an advantage on the trading post, and the stat boosts give them an advantage in combat with other players in wvw.

Carzor Stelatis.9435:

Mainly through competitive gameplay types?

Well the magic find boost gets the RNG purchaser an advantage on the trading post, and the stat boosts give them an advantage in combat with other players in wvw.

The counterargument is already provided in my post.

Again, the whole point if of course moot because of the fact that you can purchase Gems with Gold.

Are normal foods like Omnom Ghosts P2W? They provide stats too (More specific stats too, instead of all-around.) Are Runes of the Divinity P2W? They are exorbitantly expensive, and people can gain gold through purchase of Gems.

lekyii.9856:

“The Tome of Knowledge has been added as a rare drop from Black Lion Chests. Using the Tome of Knowledge will grant the character one level and all associated benefits. If a level 80 character uses the tome, they will gain a skill point.”

yep now is pay to win.

Still not, actually. The Black Lion Chests drop from mobs, and I got my first key off a mob drop, and the other chests I’ve opened have all had a key inside, so I’ve never had to buy one from the store. So, no, it’s still not pay to win.

Ursan.7846:

Are normal foods like Omnom Ghosts P2W? They provide stats too (More specific stats too, instead of all-around.) Are Runes of the Divinity P2W? They are exorbitantly expensive, and people can gain gold through purchase of Gems.

But the dragon cakes (unlike Omnomberry Bars or whatever) can only be acquired through the gemstore whether directly – by buying it yourself – or indirectly by acquiring it through however many degrees of separation from someone else who bought it from the gemstore.

If it was disabled in WvW, or the recipe was acquirable as a random drop (obviously a very rare one), then I wouldn’t have a problem.

In short: normal in-game stat boosts, which you can increase your chance of getting through the gemstore, are fine. Stat boosts which are exclusive to the gemstore are p2w.

Carzor Stelatis.9435:

But the dragon cakes (unlike Omnomberry Bars or whatever) can only be acquired through the gemstore whether directly – by buying it yourself – or indirectly by acquiring it through however many degrees of separation from someone else who bought it from the gemstore.

This is false. The dragon cakes can be acquired by purchasing it straight from the trading post. Similar as how Runes of Divinity can be bought straight from the trading post. It’s the same exact “degrees of separation.”

Carzor Stelatis.9435:

Stat boosts which are exclusive to the gemstore are p2w.

And since items in the gemstore aren’t exclusive to those paying real money, it’s not p2w.

Ursan.7846:

Carzor Stelatis.9435:

Stat boosts which are exclusive to the gemstore are p2w.

And since items in the gemstore aren’t exclusive to those paying real money, it’s not p2w.

P2W has more to do with being required to even touch a paying player. We’re talking about an entire zerg of players being unable to kill a single P2W player.

Minimal bonuses from boosters are not even close. 5% damage boost is minimal enough to not be an issue, lack of it it doesn’t make you uncompetitive, if it even works in WvW (which I’m not certain that it does, even though you can consume it).

The gold to gem conversion feature shuts down any P2W argument, simple as that.

OP, if you want to argue against anything….argue against RNG.

The cakes are a way of selling power via gems. The cakes are overpowered. The cheapest way to get the cakes is to have the recipe and craft them. Having the recipe also provides the exclusive ability to become a manufacturer and seller of those cakes and earn profit.

It’s not quite the direct selling of an exclusive stat boost, but it’s a little too close to that for comfort.

Another step towards the slippery slope is providing a level up in BLCs. Now you can literally buy yourself a near instant level 80 character if you buy enough BLCs. The rarity of the level up will be an important factor in judging how big a deal this will be. Players can already speed level to by buying gems, trading for gold and leveling all the crafting professions to 400, but it still takes several hours to manage all the crafting. These level up tickets just require a load of money and the ability to double click.

Fiontar.4695:

The cakes are a way of selling power via gems. The cakes are overpowered. The cheapest way to get the cakes is to have the recipe and craft them. Having the recipe also provides the exclusive ability to become a manufacturer and seller of those cakes and earn profit.

It’s not quite the direct selling of an exclusive stat boost, but it’s a little too close to that for comfort.

Another step towards the slippery slope is providing a level up in BLCs. Now you can literally buy yourself a near instant level 80 character if you buy enough BLCs. The rarity of the level up will be an important factor in judging how big a deal this will be. Players can already speed level to by buying gems, trading for gold and leveling all the crafting professions to 400, but it still takes several hours to manage all the crafting. These level up tickets just require a load of money and the ability to double click.

You are not guaranteed a tome in the BLC’s. Its all RNG, same as anything other boost. Anet has also made sure this would will not be an issue as every new temp dungeon/Map/WvW/PvP auto lvl you to 80. You are also down lvl’d according to which map you are on.

So I don’t see the issue with the tomes in the BLC’s.

I just want the Starcake recipe to be tradable so I can buy one for my Chef. I don’t even plan on MAKING any darn Starcakes; I just want to know how to make them!

Did the OP even realize that star cake is actually cheaper to buy on the TP than to make it yourself? It’s not pay to win. It’s pay to pay. I have the recipe. Yet I’d rather sell the mats and buy the cake straight off the TP.

Fiontar.4695:

The cheapest way to get the cakes is to have the recipe and craft them.

Just for comparison
Starcakes are 24s now.
http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/43550

White Cake: 87c * 2
http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/12224
Saffron: 67c * 50
http://www.gw2spidy.com/search/saffron?recipes=0
Zhaitaffy: 12c * 40
http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/43319
Crystalline Dust: 11s19c
http://www.gw2spidy.com/search/dust?recipes=

The mats required to craft it using the recipe costs a total of 51s23c, while the food itself costs 24s through the trading post.

P2W? I concur with Buttercup. It’s more like P2Pay. Lets do a little bit of research before making statements!

Fiontar.4695:

The cakes are overpowered.

Sounds like you don’t know anything about the mechanics of GW2 and what makes something OP. Since your premise is grossly incorrect, why should we listen to the absurd conclusion you draw from it?

Zaxares.5419:

I just want the Starcake recipe to be tradable so I can buy one for my Chef. I don’t even plan on MAKING any darn Starcakes; I just want to know how to make them!

Same.

I wish this thread weren’t debating whether or not the recipe is pay to win, but rather if a line was crossed in terms of the gem store being cosmetic only. Personally, I think it did cross that line. I suspect this was part of a new strategy to get people who aren’t interested in cosmetics to start buying their RNG boxes, so I’m not happy about that at all. The recipe should have been added to regular dragon coffers with a reduced drop rate the same way the skins were, or made tradeable, or both.

Ursan.7846:

Fiontar.4695:

The cheapest way to get the cakes is to have the recipe and craft them.

Just for comparison
Starcakes are 24s now.
http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/43550

White Cake: 87c * 2
http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/12224
Saffron: 67c * 50
http://www.gw2spidy.com/search/saffron?recipes=0
Zhaitaffy: 12c * 40
http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/43319
Crystalline Dust: 11s19c
http://www.gw2spidy.com/search/dust?recipes=

The mats required to craft it using the recipe costs a total of 51s23c, while the food itself costs 24s through the trading post.

P2W? I concur with Buttercup. It’s more like P2Pay. Lets do a little bit of research before making statements!

You get two cakes from the recipe I believe…so its like selling one for 48s really(if your cost for ingredients are accurate)…but your point still stands :-).

Amun Ra.6435:

You get two cakes from the recipe I believe…so its like selling one for 48s really(if your cost for ingredients are accurate)…but your point still stands :-).

Did not realize, thank you for your correction. But the numbers do make a lot more sense now.

That food buff is terrible and overpriced.

Power builds don’t use them, crit builds don’t use them, condition builds don’t use them and defensive builds don’t use them.

Only noobs uses them it seems.

Calae.1738:

That food buff is terrible and overpriced.

They are priced at a point where people actually pay for them. So they can’t be overpriced if they sell. Remember, item prices are player set. So if you’d like to try and manipulate the prices down, you’ll have to sell the same item for far less, and hope you have enough supply to offset demand.

It’s pretty sad that people are actually willing to buy this food at this price. I mean, using the food is bad enough already, but actually demanding it at that price? Crazy

Not entirely. Stacking this food with armor and weapons and runes and trinkets is very powerful indeed. Not for all classes, but for some, yes. This food gives approximately twice the stat points of other foods. Very scattered, yes, but it’s stacking it with the rest that makes it powerful. So while I agree the food is pricy, I think based on the mat cost it should be more pricy.